Vol. 369 No. 2
asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he will clarify the precise nature of the response made by the Libyan Government to Irish Embassy officials when they visited Tripoli and which apparently precipitated the Government's action in preventing Libyan students attending further courses in Irish colleges etc.
3.
asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if the Government are refusing entry to Libyan students to study in this country; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Question Nos. 1 and 3 together.
On 18 June I informed the Dáil that I had that day instructed our Ambassador in Rome, who is accredited also to Libya, to make an immediate demarche to the Libyan People's Bureau in Rome and to follow this up by an urgent visit to Tripoli in order to make clear our grave concern about any support or renewal of support by Libya for the Provisional IRA.
On 25 June I reported to the Dáil on the outcome of the Ambassador's visit. I explained that he had, on my instructions, made very clear that any support, moral or material, of the IRA is unacceptable to the Irish Government. As I informed the Dail on 4 July, the Ambassador had further discussions in Tripoli on 1 July when he sought to obtain from the Libyan authorities satisfactory assurances that they will not in any way encourage the enemies of the democratically elected institutions of this State. The Ambassador did not receive such satisfactory assurances.
As a consequence of the unsatisfactory response of the Libyan authorities the Government decided on 3 July last that while student trainee programmes already in operation may continue until completed no new programmes should commence and no additional Libyans should be allowed to join existing programmes after that date.
I regret to have to note in the intervening period reported remarks of the Libyan leader Colonel Gadaffi in an interview with RTE on 4 September at the Harare Summit of Non-Aligned Nations in which the Libyan leader once again expressed support for the IRA. I reiterate that the Government view with very grave concern the continued expressions of public support of the Libyan leadership for those in this country who attempt to promote political objectives by violence or the threat of violence. Libya, or any country which supports international terrorism, cannot expect to have normal relations with Ireland or with any of our partners in the 12.
Surely the Minister will agree that the Libyan leader gave assurances that his country would not supply arms to the Provisional IRA following the Harare conference? His refusal to oblige the Government here with a statement of condemnation of the Provisional IRA is hardly grounds for expelling Libyan students with all the repercussions which this would involve. Is it not a case of the Minister and the Government over-reacting as a result of the campaign of misinformation orchestrated by the Reagan-Shultz-Weinberger administration which was recently exposed by the Washington Post? Will the Minister reconsider his decision, especially in regard to Libyan students who were in this country prior to July and who were doing preparatory courses to enable them to participate in degree courses in our universities?
I do not agree with anything the Deputy said. The assurances we sought from the Libyan authorities on three different occasions were that they would not in any way encourage the enemies of the democratically elected institutions of this State. We did not receive such assurances.
Does the Minister agree that Libyan students in this country have always behaved in an exemplary manner and that there is no possible justification for punishing students because of a disagreement with their Government? Is the Minister aware that recently five students who were refused permission to study here have now been given permission to do so in Britain and have already enrolled there?
I do not know anything about the last point raised by the Deputy. However, to the best of my knowledge Libyan students have behaved well in this country. Students already here will be allowed to continue their courses but we will not allow new students to enter.
Does the Minister agree that it is unrealistic on his part not to have been briefed to the effect that five students who were refused permission to study in this country have been allowed to do so in the United Kingdom? If the Minister accepts that, would he consider re-examining the whole situation having regard to the punishment and penalties he is placing on these students?
We will be very glad to examine the whole matter as we want friendly relations with the Libyan people. We have always been on friendly terms and we very much regret the line taken by the leadership in Libya. Contrary to what Deputy Gregory said, Colonel Gadaffi did not say in Harare that he would not support the IRA. He said quite the reverse, that he would support the IRA. It is impossible for us to have normal relations with that country as a result and we feel it necessary to bring home to them in the most dramatic way possible that we do not approve of their support for an organisation whose intention is to destroy the democratically established institutions of this country. I am sure everyone in the House agrees with that.
Does the Minister agree that the alleged basis for the termination of students' training was remarks alleged to have been made by Major Jalloud to some German MEPs? These remarks were based on hearsay and I am informed that he did not make them. Does the Minister agree that they form an extremely flimsy basis on which to take sanctions against Libya? Is the Minister further aware of the effects this could have on our very important trade with Libya? Will he also take into account the fact that the German Government and their export agencies are pushing trade to such an extent that they will take over any vacuum created by us and it will be impossible for us to regain our markets in Libya?
I do not agree that our action was taken on the basis of hearsay. We checked it very carefully before our Ambassador went to Tripoli and we gave the Libyan authorities the opportunity to say that their leader did not make those remarks. However, we did not get assurances in that regard.
Does the Minister agree that he and the Government made their decision based on hearsay reports by a German MEP?
No.
Will the Minister tell us on what the Government based their decision?
We checked very carefully to make sure that the remarks had been made before we sent our Ambassador to Tripoli.
Can the Minister explain the principle involved in taking action against individual students who are already in the country, or who wish to come here, as a means of expressing disapproval of the Government's attitude — or in this case the leader's attitude? Does he accept that the principle clearly does not conform to natural justice? Many of the students may equally abhor the attitudes or purported actions of the leader involved. Why should the students suffer?
There is some woolly thinking in regard to this matter in the House. I have already said that students who are already here will be allowed to continue their courses. The Prime Minister and the leader of another country expressed support for an organisation whose objective is by violent means to bring down the democratically elected institutions of this country. We cannot have normal relations with a counry whose leadership has such a view. We asked them to give assurances that they would withdraw their support for the IRA. They refused to do so and indeed within two months the leader of the country repeated his support for the IRA. We must bring home to that Government in the strongest possible way —— we do not want to damage the Libyan people —— that we will not have normal relations with any country who supports an illegal organisation here.
In view of the fact that the Libyan leader specifically stated at the Harare conference that he would not supply arms to the Provisional IRA, surely that is sufficient to bring the conflict between the two Governments to an end? Will the Minister reconsider the position of Libyan students who are already in this country, several of whom have been here since February of this year doing language courses to enable them to attend university courses beginning this autumn? They have now been refused entrance to the universities because of the circular which was sent to the colleges. There are in the region of 12 to 14 of these students.
I will look at the point raised by the Deputy and see how many students are involved and what can be done. Let me repeat that the Libyan authorities have been given four or five opportunities in the past few months to say that they will not in any way support an illegal organisation whose intention is to bring down the democratic institutions of this country. They have not done so. In fact, they have repeated their support for that organisation. It is quite obvious that if this is a democracy we cannot tolerate that.
Why blame the students?
We are, quite clearly, not blaming the students. People have to be firm in their thinking and cannot be woolly minded about this.
