asked the Minister for the Public Service if the question of payment of ministerial pensions to Members of the Dáil and Seanad and to other officeholders has been referred to the Review Body on Higher Remuneration in the Public Service; the terms of reference of any such referral; when it is expected that the review body will report; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Ministerial Pensions.
16.
The question of the remuneration of members of the Government and Ministers of State, as well as the allowances of Members of the Houses of the Oireachtas, has been referred to the Review Body on Higher Remuneration in the Public Sector. In their previous reports the review body have taken the level of all benefits available, and the conditions under which they are paid, into account in assessing remuneration. Serving officeholders in the Houses do not receive pensions in respect of offices which they may have held previously.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to circulate the terms of reference of the review body in the Official Report.
I am unable to say when the final report of the review body is likely to be available. However, the terms of reference request the review body as a first step to examine, as a matter of urgency, whether the remuneration of the groups covered by the reference has fallen seriously out of line with the remuneration of comparable jobs in other employments, and if satisfied that serious anomalies or inequities exist, to recommend an interim increase to rectify them.
The Minister stated in his reply that the matter had been referred to the Review Body on Higher Remuneration in the Public Service, but a statement issued by the Government Information Service on 14 July 1986 contains no reference to the question of the remuneration of Members of this House or of the Seanad or to the pensions paid to them. Could the Minister specify when those terms of reference were given which relate to the Members of the Houses of the Oireachtas and the pensions paid to former Ministers who remain Members of the Oireachtas? Could he specify what the terms are?
The terms of reference are available and I propose to circulate them. They are somewhat long but if the House wishes I can go through them in detail. Included is a request to the review body to examine and report on the levels of remuneration of members of the Government and the allowances of Members of the Oireachtas. Other areas are also included.
The Minister also stated that the review body were requested to make an early report on civil servants and local authority and health board officers. Have the body also been requested to report as a matter of urgency on the question of pensions, since this is of particular public concern?
The terms of reference include a request for an examination, as a first step, and an interim report if necessary on the question of whether the remuneration of the groups covered by the terms of reference has fallen seriously out of line with the remuneration in comparable jobs in other employments. They are also to find out whether serious anomalies or inequities exist and, if so, to recommend an interim arrangement to cover them.
It seems from what the Minister has said that the question of pensions payable to sitting Members of this House who are former Ministers will not be directly considered by this body, except in so far as they may have fallen behind in terms of value. I understood from the Minister's contribution in the Seanad on 12 March that the specific question of the equity of such pensions in these circumstances was to be referred to that body. Is this the case?
The review body have in the past taken into account all the benefits, including superannuation, of officeholders and Deputies when arriving at their recommendations. I am advised that the present terms of reference are fully sufficient to enable them to do so again.
Would the Minister tell the House the membership of the review body or at least what groups are represented? Is it structured in a different way from the Devlin Commission?
I can make that information available to the Deputy. Speaking from recollection, the chairman is Mr. Dermot Gleeson, SC. Regarding the exact names and interest groups represented, I should prefer to be accurate and to write to the Deputy giving those details. I recall that there are two members of the Labour Court, as well as somebody from the private sector. This information was published in the newspapers at the time of the appointments.
I simply want to clarify that this body will be considering the equity of paying pensions to former Ministers who remain Deputies in this House. Could the Minister state that the body will be discussing and reviewing this matter?
The review body have in the past taken into account all the benefits, including superannuation, of officeholders and Deputies in arriving at their recommendations. I am advised that the present terms of reference are fully sufficient to enable them to do so.
The following are the terms of references of the Review Body on Higher Remuneration in the Public Sector.
Reference A: To examine and report on
(1) the general levels of remuneration appropriate to
civil servants, local authority officers and health board officers outside the scope of conciliation and arbitration schemes;
the ranks of Commissioner, Deputy Commissioner, Assistant Commissioner and Surgeon in the Garda Síochána;
the Comptroller and Auditor General;
the chief executives of State-sponsored bodies;
the chief officers of the Dublin Port and Docks Board and the Cork, Waterford and Limerick Harbour Commissioners; and
(2) whether it is desirable and feasible that such remuneration should take account of individual performance on the job and, if so, the criteria and mechanisms which might apply.
Reference B: To examine and report on the levels of
(1) remuneration of members of the Government, Ministers of State, the Attorney General and the Chairman and Deputy Chairman of Dáil Eireann and Seanad Éireann; and
(2) allowances of Members of the Houses of the Oireachtas.
Reference C: To examine and report on the levels of remuneration of the Judiciary.
The review body is requested when making its reports to have regard to the state of the public finances and current Government pay policy.
The review body is also requested as a first step to examine, as a matter of urgency, whether the remuneration of the groups covered by the above references has fallen seriously out of line with the remuneration of comparable jobs in other employments since the review body last reported and, if satisfied that serious anomalies or inequities exist, to recommend an interim increase to rectify them.