Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take No. 35.

By agreement, the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. today and not later than 11 p.m. and business shall be interrupted at 10.30 p.m. today.

Also by agreement, and notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, the following arrangements shall apply to No. 35:

(1) further members may be called on to speak in the debate,

(2) the proceedings on No. 35, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 10.30 p.m. tomorrow,

(3) the Minister for Communications shall be called on not later than 10 p.m. tomorrow to conclude the debate.

Private Members' Business shall be No. 58 — Motion 74.

An Ceann Comhairle

Are the arrangements for No. 35 agreed? Agreed.

Is the late sitting agreed? Agreed.

I would like to raise with the Taoiseach item No. 6 on today's Order Paper — Incitement to Hatred Bill, 1986, in the name of Deputy Mervyn Taylor. Is it proposed to give Government time for this measure?

The Taoiseach

No; it is a Private Members' Bill.

Mr. Haughey

I would remind the Taoiseach that the Labour Party are members of the Coalition. If the Labour Party attach, as they obviously do, importance and significance to this legislation, would he not think it right and proper that Government time should be given for this measure? May I point out that Private Members' time is the only time of Dáil business available to the Opposition, and that it is not appropriate for a Government party to take up two weeks of that time debating a Bill which could be taken in Government time?

The Taoiseach

That was an arrogant statement. That may have been the old style but under our arrangements, members of the Government parties can put down Private Members' Bills if they wish to do so. There is more freedom of action now than there was when Fianna Fáil were in Government.

Mr. Haughey

I will ignore the Taoiseach's constant failure to resist making these silly, snide remarks. I will ask him to concentrate on the matter in hand. Private Members' time is very limited. There are three or four more weeks only before this session ends. I want to submit that it is entirely unfair for a Government party, who have the opportunity to have their legislation taken in Government time, to take up Private Members' time by this piece of legislation. I want to suggest that the appropriate way to deal with this is for the Government to give a reasonable amount of time to take this Bill.

The Taoiseach

I disagree profoundly with the Deputy. Members of the House are equal — whatever party they are in — and they have a perfect right to put down Private Members' motions or other business they wish.

Mr. Haughey

That is a totally artificial argument. The Labour Party — whether or not the Taoiseach is prepared to acknowledge it — are partners in Government. If there is legislation the Labour Party want brought forward, the Government should either bring it forward or give the Labour Party time to have it brought forward in Government time.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

The Taoiseach

That may be the way the Deputy runs his party but it is not the way I run Fine Gael or the way the Tánaiste runs Labour.

Mr. Haughey

I want to give notice that we are not prepared to accept this cavalier treatment by the Government on this matter. We shall have to consider the whole situation with regard to Government business.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Prendergast: he tried to get in earlier.

Mr. Haughey

A Cheann Comhairle, I tried to raise it on Question Time and you asked me to wait.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will be back to the Deputy in a moment.

Mr. Haughey

All Deputies are equal but those of the Coalition parties more equal.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will deal with anything reasonable. I think I was very reasonable with the last item.

Mr. Prendergast

With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I should like to raise on the Adjournment the question of the hunger strike by a constituent of mine, Mr. Michael Fitzgerald of Reenavanna, Doon, County Limerick, whose health is deemed to be in imminent danger.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with the Deputy.

Mr. Haughey

I sought permission to put down a Private Notice Question to the Taoiseach asking whether the views expressed by his Minister for Defence over the weekend on the issue of neutrality represented Government policy on that issue. Your office, a Cheann Comhairle, conveyed to me that this Private Notice Question could not be allowed on the basis that Irish neutrality was still Government policy. Surely that is what my question is all about, whether it is or is not.

An Ceann Comhairle

I considered the Deputy's question very carefully and, having considered it very carefully, I ruled that I could not allow it. I cannot discuss it here. I cannot discuss my reasons.

Mr. Haughey

I have to submit to you, Sir, that I find that an extraordinary ruling. A Minister of the Government gives two very important and significant interviews, dealing with a fundamental aspect of Government policy. I seek permission to ask the Taoiseach if what the Minister for Defence said represents Government policy——

Minister for Defence (Mr. O'Toole)

——is alleged to have said, that is different.

Mr. Haughey

I will accept that amendment — what the Minister for Defence is alleged to have said, whether it does or does not represent Government policy. I understand you are not ruling it out, Sir, on the basis that it is not urgent.

An Ceann Comhairle

I have ruled it out of order after due consideration because it did not meet the criteria laid down for Private Notice Questions.

Mr. Haughey

Can you indicate to me, a Cheann Comhairle, on what basis it does not meet the criteria?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is a very experienced Deputy and is a man of skill——

Mr. Haughey

Are you even prepared to indicate to me which criterion it does not meet?

An Ceann Comhairle

No, Deputy. I rule on dozens of matters some days and there is no day on which I do not rule on several matters. If I were to discuss those rulings in the House things would be a lot worse than they are; we would never get anywhere.

Mr. Haughey

I just have to say that if the stage is reached where your rulings now prevent my asking this sort of question of the Taoiseach — on a major matter of Government policy, on a statement by one of his Ministers — then I just do not know what is the point in having Question Time in this House.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will find other ways.

Mr. Haughey

I will not find other ways.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are other ways——

Mr. Haughey

Would you indicate to me what other ways there are?

An Ceann Comhairle

There are other ways available to the Deputy. It is not the business of the Chair to lecture Deputies on how they may do this, that or the other thing. The Deputy should be reasonable.

Mr. Haughey

I dislike procedural wrangles in this House as much as you do. But really, a Cheann Comhairle, I must try to stand up for my rights in this matter. I find your ruling totally inexplicable.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am ruling in accordance with the rules and Standing Orders. I am calling on Deputy De Rossa who has been trying to get in for a long time.

Proinsias De Rossa

I also sought to raise a Private Notice Question on the supplementary welfare allowance scheme the Minister for Social Welfare was to have brought in this week and which has been ruled out of order. I am not challenging that ruling. But I am challenging the Government to defer the social welfare cuts and their effects which they——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy knows that is not in order——

Proinsias De Rossa

——this Government have conned this House into believing they were going to alleviate.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am calling Deputy McCarthy on the same thing.

Proinsias De Rossa

A Cheann Comhairle, it may not be in order but there are thousands of families who will have their incomes cut this week.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is usually a very orderly Deputy who does not give the Chair any trouble but he is now out of order.

Proinsias De Rossa

It seems the only thing this Government recognise——

An Ceann Comhairle

I am calling on Deputy McCarthy.

Proinsias De Rossa

They can only be regarded as con artists, nothing more nor less. It is disgraceful.

Dr. McCarthy

I sought to get some specific information by way of two Private Notice Questions, one relating to what arrangements the Minister for Social Welfare would make in relation to payments for those who would lose up to £60 per week because of the way the Government have introduced the equality directives. The second related to the drastic reductions in the Christmas bonus announced last night.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy cannot make a speech. He should put down a question. I rule the Deputy out of order now.

Dr. McCarthy

I cannot understand why these matters were disallowed. People will now be £60 per week short in their incomes because of what happened. It is a disgrace. The Minister for Social Welfare and the Government are just trying to deceive the public.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is out of order. I am calling in Deputy Griffin.

Mr. Griffin

I wish to raise on the Adjournment, with your permission, Sir, my deep concern at the unhelpful attitude of the ACC and the associated banks in accepting the applications of deserving and necessitous farmers for Euro currency loan facilities.

Mr. Wilson

I asked that at Question Time and the Minister said they were doing all right.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will be in touch with the Deputy.

Mr. O'Malley

I wish to raise on the Adjournment the subject of a Private Notice Question I had down for today, which has been disallowed on the grounds of lack of urgency, relating to the thirst strike of a man in custody in Loughan House.

Mr. Haughey

Everything is being disallowed today.

Mr. Wilson

In view of the fact that over the past weekend a salesman told Irish travel agents that the Irish Continental Line would be sold before Christmas, that a newspaper article also stated what was the asking price, that the receiver was used as an umbrella under which——

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the Deputy making a request or a speech?

Mr. Wilson

——the Minister hides, and I cannot get answers, would the Taoiseach indicate to the House whether legislation is being prepared to facilitate the sale of the Irish Continental Line?

An Ceann Comhairle

Unless it was promised it does not arise.

Mr. Wilson

It was implied in the whole liquidation process of Irish Shipping Limited.

Proinsias De Rossa

In view of the fact that the Minister for Social Welfare promised in this House two weeks ago that she would introduce a special scheme for those who were losing income by way of social welfare cuts, I am sure it is in order to ask her when that scheme will be introduced, or will she defer the cuts. It is a reasonable question. Where are the defenders of the family on this side of the House now?

Mr. Wilson

What about the legislation on the Irish Continental Line?

An Ceann Comhairle

If legislation was promised the question is in order — I am not aware that it was — if it was. I understand it was not promised.

Proinsias De Rossa

The Minister in this House two weeks ago——

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Deputy has a question to put, will he please put it?

Proinsias De Rossa

I have a question: in this House two weeks ago the Minister said she was having consultations with community welfare officers, with health boards, to change the regulations to enable people to receive money by way of supplementary welfare allowances. That scheme has not been introduced. I am asking when it will be introduced. When will the regulations be changed? When will this Government cop themselves on and leave the poor alone?

Dr. Woods

Can I ask the Tánaiste if he is in agreement with the order being made by the Minister for Social Welfare and the Taoiseach which will reduce the double week's pay for old age pensioners and the unemployed at Christmas——

An Ceann Comhairle

That does not arise on the Order of Business.

Dr. Woods

——to 64 per cent of what it was two years ago? Last year it was reduced to 75 per cent.

An Ceann Comhairle

That does not arise on the Order of Business. I am calling item No. 35.

Dr. Woods

Are the Labour Party going to ignore the 500,000 people who are having their Christmas bonuses reduced for the second time?

The Tánaiste

I did not stop the computer like Deputy Woods did for his own constituency benefit.

An Ceann Comhairle

If this general disorder continues I will adjourn the House.

Mr. Reynolds

Can I ask——

An Ceann Comhairle

Will Deputy Woods please resume his seat?

Proinsias De Rossa

In regard to the question about what the Minister is doing about assisting the people who will have their incomes cut this week, am I going to get an answer or not?

An Ceann Comhairle

Order, please. A question has been asked as to when certain regulations are to be brought in. I am allowing that question and there is nothing more I can do about it.

Mrs. Hussey

Any regulations I promised to alleviate hardship for those who will lose some income as a result of the equal treatment directive will be brought in in plenty of time to alleviate hardship and all recipients concerned will be fully notified.

Dr. McCarthy

Can I ask the Minister——

An Ceann Comhairle

I want to make it perfectly clear that Question Time has ended and that this matter does not arise in the way it is being brought up at present. I allowed the question about regulations. If I do not get order in the House I will have no option but to adjourn the House. I do not want to do that but I will be left with no option.

Dáil Éireann debate - Tuesday, 18 Nov 1986

Deputies

Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 18 Nov 1986