asked the Minister for Labour if he will outline the present position with regard to the legislation governing the Government's National Manpower White Paper; its timescale in the Dáil and details for its actual implementation.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - National Manpower White Paper.
17.
A Bill entitled the National Employment and Training Authority Bill has been circulated to Deputies and will be debated on Thursday next, 27 November 1986. The Bill provides for the establishment of the National Employment and Training Authority and removing the age limit in the use of the youth employment levy. It is my intention to proceed with the implementation of the legislation, when enacted, as quickly as possible.
My question was obviously in before the Bill was circulated today. I want to ask one very important question. It appears that Fianna Fáil's request that CERT would remain outside the manpower agency is being denied, because from reading the Bill it appears that CERT as such is being abolished and will be part of the manpower authority. CERT is a commercial training agency and is a fundamental part of our tourist industry, it has been very successful especially in job placements. It seems totally inappropriate to the Fianna Fáil Party that it should be brought in to the area of training, retraining, co-operative and short term work schemes. CERT does not come under the manpower Bill. Will the Minister confirm that my reading is correct?
I am afraid I must ask the Deputy to be patient and wait until Thursday when he will have the opportunity to discuss the Bill at length.
I have to get ready for Thursday. One of the fundamental points I am trying to establish is——
You cannot train on the racecourse.
I think I am entitled to ask supplementaries on this question which I had down before the Bill was circulated today.
I am sorry, you cannot discuss the Bill.
The last time we had Labour questions was before the summer recess and this question has been in since September. The Government anticipated my question by circulating the Bill this morning. You cannot blame me for that.
The Deputy can take it that this is not an attempt to abolish CERT. We are well aware of the sensitivities of CERT and of the work they have done.
This goes for the Minister and the Deputy: we cannot have a debate on the Bill at Question Time. This Bill is on the Order Paper and we are told it will be taken next Thursday.
Does this mean I cannot ask any questions?
You may not ask questions on the Bill because the Second Stage will be taken next Thursday.
What discussions are taking place with the trade unions about the amalgamation of the four organisations mentioned in the White Paper?
Discussions will have to take place and I am sure that when the debate starts in this House many new and relevant ideas will come to light. I am not aware of details of discussions which have taken place with the unions.
An undertaking is given in the White Paper that prior to legislation being introduced, detailed discussions and agreements will take place with the unions. This Bill will be discussed next Thursday and I am asking what discussions have taken place between the Department and the trade unions, if any such discussions have been conclusive and what is the position about the abolition of the four organisations — ANCO, CERT, the YEA and the National Manpower Service? What negotiations, if any, are taking place?
This is not an attempt by Government to abolish or eliminate any of the four organisations mentioned. The Bill is to set up the new National Employment and Training Authority and is a restructuring of the four organisations referred to. I am not aware that the discussions which have taken place have been conclusive——
If the existing agencies are to remain as they are——
We are getting into a debate——
No, I am on the question.
If I had been ruling on this question this morning I would have ruled it out of order.
In his reply the Minister said there would be no change in the status of the existing agencies.
I am sorry Deputy Keating, the Chair nodded for a moment or two, but you are not entitled to ask any questions. This is Priority Question Time.
Am I not allowed to ask any supplementaries?
No. Supplementaries are confined to the Deputy who puts down the questions.
I was just trying to be helpful.
Am I right when I say that CERT is not being abolished and will remain as it is? Is that the Minister's reply?
The Deputy's allegation was that this was an attempt to abolish CERT, and that is not true.
I got a commitment from the Minister that CERT would remain as it was. Is that right?
If the Deputy wants to put that interpretation on my words, he should do so. I said this Bill is setting up a new National Employment and Training Authority to deal with the four bodies which exist at present.
Another layer of bureaucracy.
The Department are well aware of the sensitivities of CERT and the work they have done.
The Minister has advised me that there will not be a change and that the CERT organisation will remain as it is.
What I said was that there was no intention to abolish CERT.
The Minister and the Deputy insist on having a Second Stage Debate which has been ordered for next Thursday. I am calling Question No. 18.