asked the Minister for Communications the progress, if any, he has made in acquiring fifth freedom rights for Aer Lingus and other Irish air companies in Britain and other EC countries.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Fifth Freedom Rights.
4.
In recent discussions with the UK authorities on the revision of the Ireland/UK Air Services agreement, the Minister has stressed that fifth freedom rights would have to form an integral part of any package of measures agreed. In particular, the Minister has sought the restoration of previously held fifth freedom rights which were withdrawn by the UK authorities in the seventies. He sees restoration of these rights as a first step and is pursuing in the broader EC context the grant of fifth freedom rights on a multilateral basis.
Last May, following discussions between the Department of Communications and the French Civil Aviation Administration, the French authorities agreed to restore to Aer Lingus fifth freedom rights through Lourdes to Rome, Barcelona and Malaga, which had been withdrawn some years ago. The French authorities also agreed to consider favourably possible applications by Aer Lingus to operate pilgrimage charter services between Belfast and/or Glasgow and Lourdes. The agreement is valid for one year but may be renewed annually.
Generally, the Minister is dissatisfied with the lack of progress in agreeing a more competitive EEC air transport policy. In the area of market access in particular, he has found it necessary to table additional proposals which include fifth freedom rights and these are the subject of discussion at Council of Ministers level. He will be pursuing this matter vigorously at the next meeting of the Council of Ministers on 15/16 December, 1986.
The Minister mentioned restoration as being his first priority. Is he referring there to the fifth freedom right which was enjoyed by Aer Lingus, Manchester-Amsterdam, and what are the possibilities of the restoration of this right in the near future?
I am referring in particular to these arrangements with us and also the freedom rights as far as Air France are concerned.
The Ireland-UK air service agreement originally provided for fifth freedom rights for Irish airlines on the following lines: Shannon and/or Dublin-Manchester-Brussels and/or Amsterdam and/or Dusseldorf and/or Frankfurt; Shannon and/or Dublin-Manchester-/Amsterdam and/or Copenhagen; Shannon and/or Dublin-Manchester-Zurich and/or Rome; Shannon and/or Dublin-Jersey-Lourdes. These rights were withdrawn by the UK authorities between 1973 and 1978. In discussions with the UK authorities on the introduction of more liberal air service agreements we have stressed the view that fifth freedom rights would have to form an integral part of any liberalisation package agreed. We have sought the restoration of the rights that I have just outlined as a first stage, to be followed by additional rights which would require multilateral agreement. The withdrawn rights are still available as far as third countries are concerned. UK agreement is the only obstacle to their restoration. The UK position has, nevertheless, been a progress in the area of a fifth freedom which could best be made in a multilateral rather than a bilateral context and matters relating to third and fourth freedom rights would first have to be sorted out. The talks on these matters are expected to resume early in the new year.
Would the Minister not agree that the talk of liberalisation of air transport which we hear, particularly from the British Minister of Aviation, is talk of pseudo-liberalisation and is not genuine, seeing that these rights were taken away from a company that established business on those routes? Would the Minister not say that it is a matter of some urgency now that those rights should be restored?
The Minister has consistently made the point that he is totally dissatisfied with the rate of progress that is taking place at all levels as far as liberalisation is concerned. In that regard, we announced today we would grant approval for a UK registered company to fly a commuter service between Sligo and Dublin which is in progress and an indication of a liberal attitude on our part. It will mean a twice daily commuter service to Sligo.
Please do not confine me in regard to this question as it is very important——
I cannot let the Deputy wander without restraint.
I will not wander. I wish to call the Chair's attention to the words "and other Irish air companies in Britain". Are Ryanair, as the result of the acquisition of a company in the United Kingdom, now assured fifth freedom rights?
I do not have the details in relation to Ryanair but, if they are available in my Department, I will send them to the Deputy.
I would be grateful to receive those details. The Minister mentioned restoration of rights by France. I know that Aer Lingus had developed a business to France, especially on the Lourdes run, but that Air France then intervened and demanded a certain quid pro quo. Can the Minister say if, as a result of the restoration of the fifth freedom rights as far as France is concerned, there had to be a quid pro quo on his part?
Negotiations took place in Paris last May between the Irish and French aviation administrations, at the request of the French. It was agreed to give approval for a second Air France freighter on the understanding that the only traffic to be carried would be digital equipment and live horses from New York to Shannon——
They were given permission to transport digital equipment from New York and live horses from Shannon?
The east-bound freighters had a fifth right basis between New York, Boston and Shannon because of the contract Air France had with Digital. They sought the right to operate a second freighter, which they received and, in return, the French agreed to restore fifth freedom rights to Aer Lingus through Lourdes, Rome, Barcelona and Malaga. Aer Lingus had those rights up to a few years ago but they were withdrawn by the French. The French authorities also agreed favourably to consider a possible application by Aer Lingus to operate pilgrim charter services between Belfast and/or Glasgow and Lourdes. The agreement is valid for one year from 22 May 1986 and may be renewed at yearly intervals. In the event of the Digital contract being terminated, the agreement will also be terminated.
Do Air France still have rights in regard to Ireland-Lourdes?
Yes.
They got those rights when they objected originally——
The Lourdes-Ireland flights would create no difficulties for Air France——
It would not be a fifth freedom right?
That is correct.