asked the Minister for Social Welfare if she is satisfied with the assessment of applicants for unemployment assistance by her Department examination officers in general and, in particular, in relation to the assessment of small farmers for unemployment assistance; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Unemployment Assistance Assessment.
20.
In order to qualify for unemployment assistance an applicant must satisfy a means test. The investigation of means is carried out by a social welfare officer and on the basis of his report the means of the applicant are assessed by a statutorily appointed deciding officer.
The means of all applicants are assessed in accordance with the provisions of section 146 of the Social Welfare (Consolidation) Act, 1981, and the Unemployment Assistance (Calculation of Means Regulations) Order, 1934. The main items taken into account in assessing means are:
(a) the yearly value of capital, that is money invested or property which is not personally used but which is, or is capable of being invested or put to profitable use;
(b) cash income;
(c) the yearly value of the advantage accruing from property which is personally used but excluding the applicant's home and farm buildings:
(d) the yearly value of any benefit or privilege enjoyed, such as board and lodgings.
As regards the assessment of means of farmers, the position is that income from farming for unemployment assistance purposes is assessed under the legislation as the yearly value of the advantage accruing from the farm. The calculation is done on an income and expenditure basis and represents the income from farming less the expenses actually and necessarily incurred in earning that income. The basis of the calculation is the net income over the 12 months preceding the investigation of means. Where at the time of the assessment the normal pattern of farming has been distorted by unusual factors, for example herd depletion, due allowance is made by the social welfare officer when investigating the means. The aim of the assessment is that it should reflect the net income from the farm in a normal year.
The means test is designed to ensure that all applicants for unemployment assistance are treated in an equitable manner having regard to the resources available to them. I am satisfied that the present system of means assessment as applied to all applicants, including small farmers, ensures that unemployment assistance is made available only to those who are in genuine need and is directly related to the financial circumstances in each individual case.
I should also point out that where an applicant is dissatisfied with the amount of means assessed against him it is open to him to appeal and have his case determined by an appeals officer.
Is the Minister aware of the serious effects of the very rigid application of the means testing procedure, particularly in relation to the provision of benefit in kind for young applicants, boys and girls, young men and women who are residing at home with their parents and because of the economic climate cannot get jobs, and that the benefit in kind rule in regard to board and lodgings means that these young people are being given pennies to exist on which seriously affects their dignity and their right to become even part of the social establishment?
At the last Question Time we had quite a long discussion on this whole question of benefit and privilege—
It has not improved.
——and the Deputy was asking for a considerable relaxation in the means test used which would disregard as much as possible the whole question of benefit and privilege — that is the term used, as the Deputy rightly says — to cover accommodation and food for a person. It might well be desirable that one would give far bigger amounts of money to that category of person, but the problem is that the amount of money involved in removing the benefit and privilege section of the means test is considerable. The figure we discussed on the last occasion was about £30 million. Other Deputies in the House have expressed greater concern about other things, for example, elderly people living alone on long term unemployment assistance with no other means, and some Deputies expressed the view that that category would be of greater priority. We could all agree on all sides of the House that all these competing demands for greater payments are very desirable and the question which we all in responsible political parties have to ask ourselves is where the money will come from.
In relation to the provision of unemployment assistance payments to small farmers, was any leeway given to the Minister's investigating officers this year in assessing these small farmers in view of the fact that they have gone through two atrocious summers with very bad weather? Many of these farmers are absolutely destitute and there seems to be quite a degree of difference of views among the investigating officers as to what are means and what are not? In some cases the means which have been arrived at as assessed by the Minister's officers are at total variance with the gross income less the costings.
I do not like to but in, Deputy, but that is a speech.
When the Minister originally said what she said I could have given her a hand because I have it here typed. I am asking the Minister——
If you want to exchange notes——
We often do that, too, and she writes lovely letters.
I would imagine so. Unfortunately, Standing Orders do not provide for fond exchanges here.
Is the Minister aware that there is great concern among small farmers in view of the two very bad summers? There is a great degree of dissatisfaction and even the IFA, who in the past have not really concerned themselves too much about the provision of unemployment assistance for small farmers, now are extremely concerned that the assessments of income being made are not factual, and some of the Minister's officers seem to be assessing the ownership of land or stock as being a form or part of means.
Deputy, if I sit here——
I am asking the Minister——
You are not. If I sit here and say nothing the people will think I am stupid, that I do not know my job. I am not going to sit here and say nothing——
I am asking the Minister a question.
You are not, you are making a rambling statement.
I would not like the Deputy to think for a moment that I was not waiting to answer his question but it has become a very long question.
The Minister's original answer was very long.
Then if I do not give long answers the Deputy will complain that I am not answering the questions properly. One cannot win here. The Deputy mentioned the IFA. I am very happy that recently I had a very good meeting with the IFA on this whole question of unemployment assistance for small farmers. We had a considerable discussion and as a result we have a working group of representatives from the IFA and my Department discussing this kind of issue and problems that arise therefrom from time to time on an ongoing basis. I assure the House and the Deputy that we are in touch with that farming organisation on this matter.
As regards the question of the particularly difficult weather conditions that applied, all applicants for unemployment assistance are made aware that where there has been a set of factors which has changed their means and which would interfere with the assessment originally made, they may apply for a review of their case and they may get a revised means assessment which would reflect the difficulties they would have faced as a result of a factor such as particularly bad weather. I assure the Deputy that the system is flexible to that extent. I would emphasise that social welfare officers give the applicants a very detailed copy of the income and expenditure on which they base the assessment and if the applicant feels that this is unfair it is open to him to appeal and have the case determined by a statutorily appointed appeals officer.