asked the Minister for Labour if he has made the appropriate arrangements for the transfer of CERT from his Department to the Department of Tourism and Transport; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
14.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Operation of CERT.
7.
asked the Minister for Labour if it is intended to ensure the continued operation of CERT as an independent training body for the hotel and catering industry; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 7 and 14 together. In the course of the Second Stage debate on the National Employment and Training Authority Bill, it was clear that there was a large measure of agreement on the broad principles and most of the provisions of the Bill.
Certain reservations were, however, expressed about some aspects of the Bill, particularly in relation to the position of CERT within the new Authority. I am having these issues examined at present and will make a decision shortly.
Is the Minister aware that CERT would not regard it as an unmitigated bonus to find themselves transferred to the Department of Tourism and Transport, that they see themselves as an integral part of the manpower and training world and that they would wish to retain their links with the Department of Labour and the other training agencies? Will the Minister give full effect to that view in his consideration?
I think the Deputy gives the view of the council of CERT. There are three options. They can remain as an independent organisation. At present, they are not an independent body as they are tied in with the Department of Labour. Secondly, they could be transferred to the Department of Tourism and Transport or, thirdly, they could be linked to the new national training and employment organisation in a formal way. They are the three options. I have spoken at some length with the officials of the Department and the agencies concerned. This month I attended a meeting of both the AnCO and CERT councils. There is a strong view that CERT as an independent body have been very successful. Equally, there are difficulties regarding the input made by the hotel industry to the operations of CERT. A balance has to be struck between the two. I hope that with the co-operation of their spokesmen we will be able to finalise these arrangements in the next week or two. I can then being back the Bill which my predecessor almost had through the House some time ago.
It now seems as if the Minister is giving consideration to giving CERT their own identity. How does he propose to fund this in view of the very small contribution made by the hotel industry who are the major beneficiaries from the activities of CERT?
I have outlined to the Deputy what are the three options. The matter is under review. I have also answered the question which the Deputy raised as regards the input of the hotel industry to the training provided by CERT. I have raised that question with CERT. I would have to be satisfied that there would be an increase in the level of training. At the same time, I have to recognise that CERT as a training organisation are extremely successful. The work they are doing for the industry is considered in all quarters to be outstanding.
I accept the role which CERT are playing. Does the Minister not think that the tourist industry is receiving preferential treatment over other industries? If other industries were to be supported in the same way, the cost would be enormous. CERT are providing an unique service to the hotel industry and the tourist industry generally which is not available to other sections of industry.
The matter is under review and I have outlined to the Deputy the three options which are available. I have clearly stated without being asked that there is a question as regards the funding. At this stage, until we bring back the Bill, I have nothing further to add.
Does the Minister propose to have direct discussions with the Irish Hotels Federation as distinct from the council of CERT which is a broadly based representative council. That particular body make a net contribution of £50,000 towards the running costs of CERT but in return receive a service to the value of approximately £5 million. The real opposition to any change in the status of CERT is not, as they would loudly protest, uniquely concerned with the undoubted quality of CERT but with the extraordinary value which they themselves derive. Could the Minister indicate if he proposes to have discussions with the Irish Hotels Federation to see if they are prepared to make a realistic contribution to match the taxpayers' contribution?
As the Deputy knows better than anybody else in the House, there is a very strong representation from the hotels industry on the council of CERT. I have put my views as expressed here, and the views expressed by Deputy O'Sullivan to them. I hope that following the meeting I have had with them I will get a response. To be quite clear about it, I do not believe that they could fully fund CERT as that would be unrealistic. What I am seeking is an increase in the contribution they make for a job which is well done by everybody in the industry.