Limerick West): Could you indicate how much time I have left?
Financial Resolutions, 1987. - Financial Resolution No. 3: General (Resumed).
Debate resumed on the following motion:
That it is expedient to amend the law relating to customs and inland revenue (including excise) and to make further provision in connection with finance.
—(Minister for Finance)
The Minister has 50 minutes left.
(Limerick West): When I spoke in this debate earlier, I referred to the leadership of the Government and the action taken by them to date. I also referred to the fact that change is inevitable. I put this special emphasis on the inevitability of change with the concluding paragraph of a recently published OECD Report on Innovation Policy in Ireland very much in mind. It records that the OECD examiners asked the very basic question whether Irish society really wants to change. I stress that whether we want to or not we cannot stop the onward march of time or ignore the changing face of the world. We can only hope by positive active involvement to influence, as we see fit, the course of events.
Accepting the inevitability of change, we must also see ourselves for what we are. Our strategy for growth and development can only succeed if it is based on a thorough analysis of our weaknesses, strengths and potentialities.
As regards our weaknesses, I do not intend to labour the point. I have already referred to some and, generally, I will not elaborate about our ailments whether they stem from the physical constraints, economic impediments or curable social infirmities. However, there is one factor which I would like to stress because it may well be the prime obstacle to greater economic progress and a more buoyant Irish society. That is the negative element of the Irish physche which exhibits itself all too frequently and too commonly in each sector of Irish society. Its hallmarks are many and varied.
"The Government should..." is one of the many. One could perhaps question whether this is an entirely native characteristic but, certainly, in the minds of many there is almost no limit to what the Government or some Government agency should do on their behalf at public expense. Their expectations and their concepts of their entitlements are almost limitless. State aid is the solution to everything. What a pity its supply is not also limitless.
"What can I do about it?", typifies another prevailing attitude. It is a close relation to "the Government should..." mentality. It is somebody else's business to solve our problems and to lead us to a better state of things. There is a cutting edge to the recently quoted assessment of John B. Keane, the famous Kerry playwrite, who said that "the current despair is attributable to a gutless people, once proud and great, who are now a nation of beggars" but without doubt we greatly need to cut through this attitude which tolerates many of our current problems and suggests that remedy is beyond our control.
"That is bound to fail" to be followed occasionally by "I told you so" is often heard. This attitude is just ridiculous. We have had so many success stories since the foundation of the State both within and outside the public sector. Life is not going to be a continuing success story in any event. Our failure is often our attitude to failure itself. Many of our current failures and difficulties stem from a changed global environment. Some, admittedly, have been compounded by internal structural difficulties. What matters is that we turn our backs on any failures which may have occurred, make the necessary adjustments and start afresh with confidence and realism going hand in hand.
Then there is the other attitude: "It will do" or "Take it or leave it". Realism certainly must come in here. That attitude just will not do. There are many others in the international marketplace willing to provide a high quality of product and service at competitive prices and as a small nation it is more important than ever that we should aim for the highest standards.
Let me finish this series of comments on negative elements in our midst with one other example. "Who does he think he is?" is one representation of the tendency to criticise success and any aspirations towards a better state of affairs. I am reminded of a story told by the late Matt Doolan. He referred to a time when conditions were by no means as good as now and when tomatoes were supplied to his home town mainly to meet the needs of a very small and favoured section of the local community. His memorable phrase was that if any woman of the ordinary working class was seen to buy tomatoes then she was likely to attract the comment "That one must have notions about herself".
It is not a bad thing for a nation to have notions about itself, not a bad thing at all to focus on its strengths, on its record of successes at home and abroad and to develop and maintain a positive attitude at all times. The more critical the situation the more we need that positive type of approach. There is no need for me to give a list of Irish success stories from within this country and overseas. The evidence is there in many walks of life: indigenous industrial and commercial firms like Waterford Glass or Ballygowan Water from my own constituency in West Limerick who have successfully penetrated highly competitive foreign markets; pioneers within the agricultural sector like Mastock and Kerry Co-op who have participated in the great advances within that area; personnel in the service industries who rank with the best world-wide: Irish entertainers like U2, the Dubliners and many others who have made their mark through Europe and beyond; public sector personnel whose achievements are well worthy of praise within that sector.
I might give our world-ranking sportsmen, like Seán Kelly and Frank O'Mara, special mention when one considers the numerical odds against which they operate. I have no doubt whatsoever that none of these success stories would have occurred had the people concerned not possessed that positive attitude which ought to become a hallmark for the nation as a whole.
I have dwelt at some length on the negative elements within our society because, I believe, they more than anything else are preventing us from making the headway which is possible. What we should do instead is concentrate on the essential ingredients for successful enterprise. They include above all a positive attitude, a high level of commitment, perseverance in the face of temporary failure, development of the necessary practical skills, a keen awareness of market possibilities and an equally keen effort towards working to the standards demanded in the international markets which must be our goal. The objective must be the right product, of the right quality, at the right price. The right product will have regard to both the market factors and those factors which facilitate production such as our natural resources. The right quality will take into account function, design and finish. The right price will not have an overriding pull towards cheapness, but will rather be directed towards giving value for money in the most competitive markets.
To be specific as to where I see home production taking place to serve those markets and revitalise our economy, I would mark out for special attention the basic resource areas of this country. Within living memory, school children were told that Ireland possessed few natural resources. This is now, thankfully, recognised to be quite untrue. This is a country with abundant natural resources and proper use of them can make a major contribution to national economic recovery. This Government recognise very clearly and very positively the natural resources of the country.
Our foremost natural resource is our agricultural land. Agriculture here is still developing. Nevertheless, with growing food surpluses within the EEC we cannot count on increasing the volume of our farm output to sustain national prosperity. If, however, scope for output increases is small, there is still scope for improving the economic return derived from each unit of output produced.
Fianna Fáil in government recognise that future growth and profitability in agriculture will depend on the development of retailed consumer products, fully processed in Ireland and of sufficient quality to compete in a market which has a surplus supply. We have the ability to become market leaders, producers for the quality end of the European food market. In many continental countries, Ireland is seen as having a clean, unpolluted environment. The growing demand for naturally produced food in the international market must surely be an advantage for us. Greater use of dairy by-products, such as Kerry Co-op have pioneered with ease in the United States, is another potential growth area.
Success in any business is dependent on a number of different things. Being in possession of natural advantages while important is not sufficient to guarantee the success of the agricultural industry. We must make a positive effort to achieve defined objectives. In particular, we must market our goods in a creative way to ensure that we are seen as a supplier of premium quality produce. We must be vigilant in our quality control. We must be see every ton of raw agricultural produce exported or sold into intervention as a missed opportunity for extra employment in downstream processing.
In addition to the natural advantage conferred by good agricultural land, it now appears that so-called bad land can also be a cause for optimism. I refer, of course, to the scope for developing our forest industry. It is universally acknowledged that some of our poorest quality farmland is among the best land for afforestation. Furthermore timber, unlike other produce from the land, is likely to be in short supply throughout the continent for the foreseeable future. We have both the soil and climate for profitable production and virtually a guaranteed market. It is indeed a national scandal that we possess the best timber-growing environment in Europe yet we have the lowest acreage under trees and we import millions of pounds of timber every year.
Rather than harp on this as a national failing, we should view the situation now as a great opportunity. There is enormous scope for development, development which can greatly benefit areas where incomes have traditionally lagged behind the national average. It is obvious that a proper development programme for forestry can also contribute greatly to economic recovery. The Government have this very much in mind and have given priority to the development of the forest industry. Afforestation will be one of the key growth areas in the programme for economic expansion of this Government. I have embarked in a positive way on the developing of the forest industry because the Government recognise its full potential. Action is being taken rather than talk about taking action.
In recognition of the great potential of the resources in the seas around our coasts, a new Department of the Marine has been established. For every square mile of land within the jurisdiction of the State, there are more than five square miles of sea within our 200 mile economic exclusion zone. It is important that all of the resources of this vast area are developed. In setting up the Department of the Marine, the Government have taken the first necessary step forward.
The scope for job-creating developments based on the wealth of our sea is most obvious. I am constantly amazed to find Irish supermarket shelves stocked with highly processed fish products from other European countries. Beyond doubt, most of these products could be processed in Ireland. It is important to remember that fishing, like forestry, is an industry which frequently benefits the more remote and disadvantaged regions of the country. Meeting the challenge in developing downstream industries is likely to create more employment in areas where a primary profitable industry is sometimes difficult to foster. I would add that I see development not just in terms of import substitution. There is an export market, already exploited to some extent, with much unfulfilled potential. Indeed, because of the relatively small size of the home market, in most of our endeavours our aim must be an internationally marketable end product.
Another area of offshore resources which is capable of contributing to economic development is the energy field— oil and natural gas. Again, this Government are, of course, ensuring that the benefits of the existing proven gasfields are shared as widely as possible by the extension of the national grid. However, it is quite possible that further fields of either oil or gas may be discovered. A Government cannot arrange such a discovery by decree, but they can create an environment which encourages exploitation. This task will be an objective of the Government and we can be certain that, in the event of a discovery, we will ensure that the tapping of this resource will proceed in a manner designed to give maximum benefit to the community as a whole.
The land and the sea most of us take completely for granted. They are, however, fundamental national assets and the Government recognised the importance of these assets to the economy. They provide an abundant base for creating sustainable profitable employment. While the enormous contribution made by foreign investors attracted to this country through grants and other incentives cannot be denied — and I would be the first to welcome these investors into the country but that in itself is not sufficient — it is obvious that a policy depending on such investors solely would be insufficient to meet the needs of the present unemployment crisis. Many of the factories which have located here have become integrated with the local economy. However, others by their nature being small units of large international firms, are more firmly linked to affiliated firms overseas. Such firms in response to changing circumstances can, and do, decide to close in Ireland and relocate elsewhere. While the Government are continuing to encourage foreign investment, it must be recognised that heavy dependence on such investment can be unwise.
Native industry, based on natural resources, whether agri-business, forestry, fish processing etc. is by its nature more likely to succeed in Ireland. We all know that an industry based on a local resource or natural advantage is most likely in the long run to provide profitable sustainable employment and this type of industry is a focal element of the present Government's industrial policy.
In this contribution relating to the budget it is natural that I should have concentrated on economic issues. However, as Minister for Defence it is quite appropriate that I should make some reference to the defence area in the broader context of the matters to which I have referred. They are by no means without connection to the military sphere of operation. Indeed, in our attempt to give a new sense of direction and purpose to our economic endeavours there are lessons to be learned from the military way of life and the actively cultivated environment on which successful military operations are based. Let me mention a few of these military characteristics which might be applied to any programme for national recovery.
First, we must have a sense of patriotism and national pride — no place here for an attitude of defeatism or any attitude or action injurious to the State. We all could take this one on board. Second, we must have a sense of mission and the will to attain that mission, even against superior odds. The aims are clear. The objectives are specific and clearly defined. Plans are persistently pursued. Performance is assessed and any failure is analysed not to blame but to learn and do better on the next occasion. The rest of society should have more of this approach. Third, we must firmly apply discipline, not out of any superfluous emphasis on authority, but as a necessary prerequisite for achieving the objectives set. The budget calls for firm discipline. Fourth, we must see and cultivate people as a vital resource. This involves continuous training and development, nurturing initiative and flexibility and positive motivation at all stages. It is another characteristic which is fundamental to success in any sphere. Fifth, we must develop good leadership, and team spirit. The good leader inspires, fosters co-operation and commitment and has his philosophy firmly rooted on good example. Resources are effectively harnessed to achieve the common objectives. Casualties merit priority attention but no passengers are carried. Here too there is a message for all of us. Sixth, we must aspire to excellence. The attitude, "it will do" goes against the military ethic. It goes against it on all occasions; whether it is a ceremonial parade or a serious form of emergency the aspiration is nothing less than an excellent performance. As with each of the other qualities we must also incorporate this aspiration in our framework for economic recovery.
Our own Defence Forces contribute more to the economy and the State than the lessons I have just mentioned. Acting in aid of the civil power, they carry out a wide range of duties as their contribution towards creating the secure stable environment necessary for economic growth. They enhance the international status of the State as contingents of United Nations peacekeeping forces. They provide a valuable input to the regular emergency services, most frequently on search and rescue and air ambulance missions. They give most useful service in relation to the country's marine and coastal resources, particularly so as regards fishery protection but also in the event of threat of oil pollution at sea. Subject to Government direction, they provide many other ad hoc services which help to provide us with a better quality of life. I am happy on this occasion to compliment and thank them on behalf of the Government.
This is neither the time nor the place for complacency or despondency. We have had our ups and downs before. The country is now on a much higher standard of living than it was in the pre-boom period. The will to do what is right and press forward again is what we need. For its part the Government intend to exercise direction and control and do what is necessary to create an environment conductive to further economic development.
Armies tend to focus on a mission. In the context of the budget I should like to put before you a vision. A vision of sacrifices for what we seek being worthwhile; an acceptable level of national borrowing; an appropriate level of public expenditure; increased national output; a healthy balance of trade; employment widely and adequately distributed; no compulsory emigration; sectoral conflict subdued and the return to our land of that co-operation which, to some extent, technological changes have pushed aside and self-esteem restored in a caring, sharing, vibrant society.
That vision cannot come to fruition within the time span often dictated by the environment of a stock exchange. Any worthwhile vision needs a reasonable time span for achievement. What matters is that together we have the vision and the commitment to attain it. We should not allow ourselves to be diverted from our course by the protests and pressures exerted by the faint-hearted, the self-interested and the miguided.
My first duty on the budget debate is to formally congratulate everybody who was appointed to their respective positions and to wish them well in their onerous tasks. I wish my colleagues in the other parties the best of luck for the future in their respective positions. The more things change the more they are the same. It is interesting to attend various meetings around the country, to listen to various contributions in this House, to read speeches made by members of the Government and their supporters and to see the complete turning on its head of the statements therein in view of the contrasting positions prior to the recent election. The old saying, "The more things change the more they are the same" is true in this instance. At various locations around the Twenty-six Counties the Fianna Fáil Party have become uniquely timid, mild, diplomatic and very astute in their attempts to rectify the difficult economic situation now being experienced.
It is unusual for the main Opposition party to give support to a Government on difficult economic issues but this party have done so on a variety of stances and have stated their limits so far as our support is concerned. In the national interest and in view of the fact that the budget was in the main drafted on the Estimates prior to Christmas by the Coalition Government, and in latter days by the Fine Gael Government, that is consistent with a good political stance. The perception among the public on the street is one of total confusion. It is fair to say after four and a half years of difficult Government and difficult decisions if the Coalition Government, prior to the last election, were to attempt to introduce some of the measures that are now being discussed freely there would be riots on the streets and there would be chaos across the country. The confusion which has resulted from the statement of the Minister for Finance has not yet been clarified in the minds of the public. They are thinking only of the difficulties which they will experience in the months ahead.
I see great difficulties for this Government in the months after the summer recess when they attempt to draft the figures for the 1988 budget. Many of the figures contained in the programme put forward by the Minister for Finance leave much to be desired. They are unclear. When one reads references to greater efficiencies, greater savings and greater cost-effectiveness, one does not understand the specifics except when the effect is translated on the ground to job losses in the various sectors and services provided, whether these jobs are temporary, part time or full time.
I had a short experience as Minister of State at the Departments of Education and Labour. I pay tribute to the officials with whom I dealt, officially and formally, in those capacities. As a politician I learned what is is to sit on the other side of the table and hear and see the other side of the arguments. While Fianna Fáil were in Opposition the baying of the hounds for the Government's blood never ceased. This suddenly stopped because they are now beginning to accept the economic realities, the constraints and the constrictions under which they have to work. I recognise their difficulties in that regard. Often due credit is not given to those civil servants who work endless hours for their various Ministers from whatever side.
The Minister for Education in recent contributions to assemblies around the country has made some play of the fact that no moneys have been left for primary school buildings, in particular as they have all been committed earlier in the year. I make no apology for having been involved. As a former teacher the dire state of many of our buildings was brought to my attention in a most vigorous way in 1986 and it was with great determination and after a great deal of effort that the allocation was made available. There were some outstandingly bad buildings which the children of the nation attended in which it was expected they would be educated. In the context of the Constitution, of cherishing all the children of the nation equally, it did not stand up. One would not want to leave that allocation unspent when contractors were ready, willing and waiting to move in to provide these necessary facilities for children attending school in deplorable conditions. The Minister now has responsibility for that Department. There are other schools which are equally bad for which tenders have been invited and in respect of which contracts can now be placed. There is little point in the Minister's claiming in sweet, melodious tones that the money had already been committed before she took up office. The problem rests with her and I am sure she will attempt to cope with it in the best possible way.
I am disappointed to learn that it is proposed to abolish the local youth service boards, 15 of which had been set up last year and for which funding had been made available. You, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, held with extreme distinction the office of Minister of State at the Department of Education with responsibility for youth affairs. In that capacity the youth organisations came to your door with a view to forming and implementing a national youth policy. It was only after the Costello report and the Government's decision to implement a national youth policy that the youth organisations really felt that the balance between voluntary and statutory service was achieving a proper blend and that we could attempt in the years ahead to cater properly for our young population.
The termination of this scheme has put back youth work by 15 or 20 years. Many youth organisations who have operated on shoe-string budgets with a great deal of commitment and voluntary effort will now find themselves without the necessary resources to carry on. It will mean in many cases the disintegration of peripheral but very valuable youth organisation. I regret that the Government have taken this decision and I ask them to review it. The balance between voluntary and statutory services was unique. This was something that you, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, worked to achieve in your ministerial capacity. The initial results of this policy were very heartening and were welcomed by the umbrella youth organisation and the various young people involved.
The various local authorities are now involved in consultations about the determination of estimates for 1987 in the light of the allocations made in the budget. My constituency colleague is now the Minister for the Environment and I wish him well in that broad and important ministry. Local authority members, many of whom serve in this House, are now beginning to realise the consequences of what is happening within that Department. In regard to the local authorities, the health boards and the schools, unemployment and so on, the same stories are beginning to emerge as were being trotted out over the past four years. The diplomatic onslaught on Capitol Hill in Washington to get our illegal immigrants valid visas or employment in their own country has not yet yielded any concrete results as yet. If the consequences of the legislation initiated by President Reagan are followed through, deportation of many of these illegal emigrants to the USA may take place. The problem was not really created by the Irish, whose numbers pale into insignificance compared with those from Mexico and South America.
Agriculture has experienced a difficult period. The former Minister for Agriculture spent many weeks in Brussels negotiating on behalf of the Irish farmer. The smaller man was looked after to the best extent possible. The current Minister will face increasing difficulties in regard to the status of the CAP. A unique form of co-operation between the farming organisation will be required to back up the case for Ireland and get the best deal for our farmers.
The decision to terminate the land tax was a retrograde step. One important aspect of that work was the collection of information for the first time since the 1860s and 1870s in relation to who actually owns the land of Ireland. There is a great deal of confusion about land registered in the name of persons who are deceased. Those who would never have been liable for land tax will now have to pay as a result of the reduction in the VAT compensatory amount from 2.4 per cent to 1.7 per cent. As that begins to take effect there will be further disharmony.
I welcome the decision to set up An Bord Glais and the Department of the Marine. I am not sure what level of funding is being allocated to these Departments but the marketing of our agricultural produce is extremely important.
The change in Fianna Fáil's attitude and mentality is striking, to put it mildly. The stock answer from 1982 onwards to any Coalition Minister was: "You are in Government; you have the responsibility to sort out this problem — get down to it". Irrespective of how great the problem was or whether it was relevant to Government agencies, the blame was laid at the door of a Minister and a Department. In Fianna Fáil terms that was good politics. They now find themselves managing the affairs of the country and faced with the same problems, some of them of increasingly seriousness.
The Government's nerve will be stretched to the limit in the months ahead. The Fine Gael Party have given support to Government policies within stated limits with a view to rectifying the economy. The party will not turn back from that decision. We faced reality by choice and the Fianna Fáil Government are now compelled to do so. They should take account of the fact that our support for the Government within certain limits is in the national interest and not for short term political advantage. It would be all too easy to tell Fianna Fáil that this is their problem, that we have nothing to do with it and that they should sort it out. In terms of consistency and in the national interest it is important that the view put forward by Fine Gael in supporting the Government, within stated limits, is followed through.
The outflow of people to foreign countries, the hungry hordes at the outposts as they were called in times gone by, are still continuing. The numbers outside the various embassies looking for visas to Australia and the US have not declined to any great extent. The results in terms of taxation of what they receive in their pay packets are depressing and the national mentality of "Let the Government sort out our problems" is prevalent as ever. We face great difficulties. The last Government were called monetarists, Thatcherite, uncaring and a whole series of other names from across the water. That was the branding of what was perceived by the Fianna Fáil mentality to be the Fine Gael Government's attitude. Fianna Fáil now are compelled by reality to operate within the same constraining limits and difficulties and we will see how they will fare out.
Cost efficiencies which have been mentioned throughout the speech of the Minister for Finance are dealt with in a very fair and understanding way. It is difficult at present for those who are members of health boards to find out where the money that is being allocated by Central Government is being spent in the administrative structures that have been in place for a number of years. The first thing that happens when a reduction, a cutback or greater efficiency has to be implemented is that some incentive or some service that is important is put up for the chop. Those who serve on health boards and who made very strong statements last year, the year before and the year prior to that about the inability of the then Minister for Health, Deputy Desmond, to deal with the health problems will now review their statements in the context of what is happending in the allocations given to the health boards under the present Minister for Health.
We will have to examine right across the board our production, quality of the goods that we have and efficiency in that general area. Ireland as an industrial country is not rated very highly in ability to produce, delivery on time and quality of its goods. In that area we rank down the list in comparison with countries of similar size throughout the world. There is no reason why this cannot be improved. History has taught us that people who have left this country for whatever reason at whatever time have made their way in business, politics, commerce and in general life in any country they have taken up position in. It may be unfair to say it but probably our insularity has had a disadvantageous effect on us in the course of the years in that we have never really been exposed to the competitive instinct of the Europeans the Americans or the Japanese in later years to the extent that we should have been and when those who left were faced with that challenge they more than met it in ability to complete. We can do that here because the firms, the factories and the production areas that are competing well are doing so to a world class standard and there is no reason why that cannot filter right down through the various aspects of the economy and put this country on the map, so to speak, as a country that is able to produce quality goods, that has a keen sense of output, that has dedication to its duty and can deliver its goods on time. For the first time we will have the advent of the Koreans to our island later this year. If the rumours are true of their national attitude to work in countries like this, be it for very low wages or whatever else, then we as a nation and as a people must lift our sights and rededicate ourselves to meeting a new challenge which is coming here to us instead of us having to go and meet it. If the level of output, zeal and dedication to duty in productivity from the Far Eastern countries continues at their present level and if they continue to compete and to undercut our productive capacity, then we here and in Western Europe face difficulties in the next decade.
A great deal of comment has been made here during the last few weeks about the various taxation measures, the cutbacks, the efficiencies and the reductions. As has been pointed out, the election was fought on several major planks, the reduction in the Governments level of borrowing, the necessity not to increase taxation beyond its present level, the necessity to increase output, to streamline our marketing ability and so on. It is not possible to maintain an increased level of services right across the board that have been on offer in Ireland for a number of years and at the same time reduce and diminish the national debt and hold taxation at its present level. Those two principles are contradictory and no Government can implement that kind of programme without standing on their heads. In that context many of the statements made prior to the last elections by Fianna Fáil speakers are now thrown out the window. As the campaign wore on and prior to the introduction of this budget a drop came in the number of commitments and promises because the economic reality of what this country faces began slowly to dawn on the minds of those who aspired to take up office.
As a small country we have during a number of years and under several Governments done a good deal to increase the basic level of infrastructure, communications and so on to put us in a position to complete genuinely with our European neighbours and other countries. We must not continue to build on that and to work harder on the marketing of what we have on offer here because we must work to our relative strength. It is all right to use the old, clichéd language of a better environment, understandings, aspirations and so on, but we have problems and we must tackle them head on. There is not point in beating about the bush any longer. Other countries with similar problems throughout the years have dealt with these things successfully to a great extent in many cases.
For four years the people of this country were told about the economic realities of life and they refused to believe them. They rejected a much milder budget in January this year that was put forward by the then Government and are now beginning to feel the consequences and the economic bite of what is being introduced by the Minister for Finance. Many Fianna Fáil Deputies who came to this House first in 1981 have had a very short period in Government and now they find themselves unaccustomed to having to deal with large protest meetings and the constant barracking they get in relation to national issues and the provision of services. They will say to one privately that this is not what they came into Government for, that they understood that the position of being in Government would be much more genuine and they would have the ability to get things done for their regions, constituencies, counties or wherever else. Now they find themselves high on the Government backbenches unable to deliver, unable really to influence any of the Government decisions and generally being used to go through the lobbies, either Tá or Níl, whenever the votes take place. It is disillusioning for many of the younger and newer Fianna Fáil Deputies to have to endure that because their vision of what was going to happen in this House when they came in the early eighties was that the world would change for the better by virtue of the fact that they had stepped inside this Chamber. That has not happened and now they are faced with an increased series of very complex issues over which they have no control except to make up the number of the 81 that they have.
Debate adjourned.