asked the Minister for Education if she has considered expanding the Central Applications Office system whereby students may apply for different courses in different colleges at the one time to the regional technical colleges and the Dublin Institute of Technology in particular, having regard to the fact that many regional technical colleges have taken on a national character in regard to certain courses and specialisations; if she has asked for the advice of the Central Applications Office, National Council for Education Awards, or National Institute for Higher Education in this regard; if not, if she will do so in the future; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Central Applications Office.
47.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 4, 35, 46 and 47 together.
A task force within my Department are currently examining admission procedures to third level education and also the administrative procedures in relation to grants and scholarships. The task force have recently completed the consultative stage of their examination which involved detailed discussions with a wide range of interested parties and are at present examining and evaluating the results of these discussions, along with other material, with a view to drawing up a report and recommendation. On receipt of this report I will give consideration to recommendations at the earliest possible stage. It is expected that an interim report from the task force will issue at the end of June.
Will the Minister accept that one of the major simplifications she could introduce would be to increase the grants available for those who find it difficult to get into third level education because of their means and who cannot afford to get into third level education under the present grant system? Is the Minister considering simplifying the system to cater for students who may qualify for entry to a course at third level but cannot attend because the points they obtained in the leaving certificate do not qualify them for the grant? Those changes could be introduced very easily.
The questions put to me related to the simplification of the procedures of entry to third level colleges. That matter will form the basis of the interim report to be issued at the end of June. I envisage later reports encompassing the points made by the Deputy. I accept that the points raised by him are worthy of consideration and debate but they do not arise on these questions.
I am glad to hear that the task force, established by the previous Government, are continuing their work. Surely the Minister finds it incompatible with simplification of entry procedures to third level education to revert back to manual collation of results of the leaving certificate by cutting the £500,000 out of the Estimate for computerisation on which great progress has been made? Will the Minister agree that it makes a nonsense of simplifying entry procedures to have staff collating those results manually and have the entire system out of kilter with the CAO who operate on a computer basis? Will the Minister identify that as a total incompatibility and a nonsense?
I do not. Anything that occurs in my Department is not a nonsense. Everything that occurs is very logical and clear and will continue to be. I should like to tell the Deputy that I am satisfied that the task force established by the previous administration is proceeding smoothly and that the recommendations in their interim report will not be incompatible with Government budgetary strategies.
Will the Minister agree that the fact that we have more students sitting for the leaving certificate each year will lead to a greater delay in the issuing of the results? Will the Minister agree that cutting back on public service pay in her Department, as in other Departments, makes a nonsense of talking about simplifying third level entry procedures?
I do not. I am satisfied that the staff at the examination centre in Athlone will produce the results as speedily, if not more so, as the results were produced last year.
The system was too slow last year and that is why we were going over to computerisation.
The Deputy asked me a question but when I am making an effort to reply she continues to interrupt me. I am satisfied that the task force are adhering to their timetable. When their report is issued we will take further action.
Deputy Quill may wish to ask a supplementary on her questions.
Am I to take it that the time allotted for my Priority Questions has been taken by the debate on Question No. 4?
The Deputy's Questions, Nos. 46 and 47, which were listed for priority are being taken with Question No. 4 and that is why I asked the Deputy if she wished to put a supplementary question to the Minister.
Is that the normal practice?
It is. I will give the Deputy an opportunity to put supplementary questions to the Minister.
My question, No. 4, asked about the promise in the Fianna Fáil manifesto to simplify the entry system to third level education. There was no explanation in the manifesto as to what was meant by "simplified" and I assumed that what was meant was making it easier for students to get into third level education by reducing the fees or increasing the grants. Does the Minister propose to do that before the next academic year?
The fees, and the rate of grant, have been announced. The Deputy asked about the simplification of the entry system and I pointed out that that matter is being considered by the task force. I understood the Deputy to mean that he was concerned about the admission procedures to third level education.
Is the Minister making it easier for the better-off to gain entry?
It was slightly mischievous of the Deputy to frame the question in the way he did. The Deputy will be aware that the colleges and the DIT have a simplified system of entry. They deserve great credit for doing that. I hope the task force enlarges on a more coordinated type of third level entry system. In my view this is a little premature because the task force are debating this topic. We should all look forward to their report. I accept that there is great public interest in this matter and I hope the recommendations of the task force are issued very soon.
I should like to refer the Minister to Question No. 46 which deals with the matter of grants and scholarships. Many grants and scholarships are paid through different sources and were instituted at different times.
I am anxious to assist the Deputy but I must point out to her that we must proceed by way of supplementary questions.
My suspicion is that a number of school children are not aware of the grants that are available. It is because of that I should like to ask the Minister to prepare a list of the grants and scholarships that are available and publish them in booklet form to be issued to school principals and career guidance teachers. It is important that those who qualify for grants are aware of them. I appeal to the Minister to issue that booklet early in the next academic year because I consider it a matter of fundamental importance.
There is a lot of merit in what the Deputy has said and it appeals to a logical mind, which I hope I have. It makes sense to have details of all grants and scholarships on one sheet. I should like to tell the Deputy that that information can be obtained from the Department, VECs or county councils. The suggestion is worthy of consideration.
Having regard to the fact that grants and scholarships are paid by many sources I should like to ask the Minister to consider paying them from one source. Will the Minister accept that such a procedure will result in a saving? In my view it will eliminate bureaucracy and will result in all the money going directly to education. I should like to ask the Minister a question in regard to the ERASMUS scheme of scholarships announced by the European Council of Ministers and adopted by them at their meeting on 14 May. A figure of £65.5 million is involved but there seems to be no information as to how this money will be channelled through and how this grant will be made available to students. There is basically a lack of information of any kind. Will the Minister ensure that this vital information becomes available as a matter of urgency?
I know the Progressive Democrats have a thing about administration——
About inefficient administration.
With regard to the Deputy's desire that all grants should be subject to and issue from one admissions office, that may well be stage 2 of the deliberations of the task force. We are awaiting the result of their deliberations of stage I which was the applications system. It may well follow, taking cognisance of what they say, that the Deputy's idea could then be looked at. The Deputy's second point related to ERASMUS; I was very pleased to be present at the meeting of the Council of Ministers in Brussels at which ERASMUS was decided upon and finally approved. I cannot say it was because I was there — perhaps it was — but it was a follow-on to work done by previous Ministers and it was particularly fruitful for me to be present. The amount of £65.5 million will be spread over three years to members of countries in the EC. It will allow for the transfer of a young person, man or woman, between a third level institution in Ireland and the other countries or vice versa. It will not be an extension to a course; he or she will go for a period of their course and will receive credits from the third level institution to which he or she goes. It will have enormous cultural, social and educational advantages for this country bearing in mind that we have the largest number of young people of student age. A European committee and an Irish committee will be set up to deal with the co-ordination of the scheme and, in particular, to deal swiftly with the applications for the coming academic year because a certain proportion of that money will be devoted to such applications. The committees will be addressing themselves urgently to their task and the institutions concerned will receive notification in respect of the applications. The scheme was announced only recently and will require to be worked out. However, it is one of the good news stories from the Department of Education.
Deputy Quill rose.
I am sorry, Deputy, we are making very little progress on Questions today. I am calling on Deputy Hussey for a final supplementary.
I want to ask another question.
The Deputy had a good innings.
If I could bring the Minister back from her finer flights to ERASMUS and elsewhere, I should like to ask for an undertaking that this year the Minister for Finance and she will provide the resources so that the leaving certificate results will not be any later than they were last year because of her cut of £500,000 in the computerisation programme.
I am satisfied that the leaving certificate results will not be later than — as the Deputy put it — the time they issued last year.
In relation to Priority Question No. 47, what steps does the Minister propose to take to co-ordinate entry to third level colleges to eliminate the present position whereby some students are precluded from options because all college entrants are not covered by a central CAO system?
Perhaps Deputy Quill was not present when I answered that question in reply to Deputy De Rossa and Deputy Hussey about ten minutes ago.
There was a lack of reference to regional colleges.
I said in my earlier answer that the task force in my Department, set up by the previous Minister, are at present investigating the matter of simplification of entry to third level colleges. I also said I expected the task force would report their findings by the end of June and that I regarded that as stage 1. We then went on to deal with Deputy De Rossa's later question.