Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 25 Jun 1987

Vol. 373 No. 14

Fisheries (Amendment) Bill, 1987: Second and Subsequent Stages.

Minister for the Marine (Mr. Daly)

I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The object of this short Bill is to close the loophole in fisheries legislation as disclosed by a recent judgment of the Supreme Court.

The background to the matter commenced in 1982 when an Enniscrone. County Sligo fisherman was convicted in the District Court of using a "fixedengine" contrary to section 97 of the Fisheries (Consolidation) Act. 1959. He appealed his case to the Circuit Court which sought the opinion of the Supreme Court as to whether the fisherman's net was a "fixed engine" within the meaning and for the purpose of the Fisheries Acts. 1959 to 1983.

It was the unanimous judgment of the Supreme Court that the net was undoubtedly fixed to the soil but that it could not rank as a "fixed engine" unless it was also "stationary" which it was not. Accordingly, the net was outside the statutory definition of "fixed engine" and so the conviction of the fisherman had to be set aside in the Circuit Court.

It is desirable to close the loophole in the legislation as otherwise some salmon fishermen might attempt to avail of it and use nets that under the existing legislation cannot now be deemed as "fixed engines" and, consequently, their use would not be prohibited under section 97 of the Fisheries (Consolidation) Act, 1959. This could pose a serious threat to salmon conservation.

As Deputies will no doubt see from the explanatory and financial memorandum which I circulated with the Bill, three changes have been made in the amended definition as compared with the existing definition. In order to deal with the defect disclosed in the judgment of the Supreme Court. I have deleted the expression "or held by hand or made stationary in any other way" and replaced it by "or by any other means". I have added the expression "or a drift net" so as to make it clear that drift nets which were not fixed engines under the old definition, continue to be excluded by the revised definition. Finally, acting on the advice of the Attorney General. I have made a slight change in the reference to "anchors".

I regard the Bill as an important conservation measure. Deputies will be aware of the continuing necessity to conserve salmon stocks. For some time past fears have been expressed regarding the salmon stock situation. While this year there is some evidence of an improved run of salmon into the estuaries and the rivers, nevertheless the wild salmon stock position is still at a critically low level and every precaution must be taken to conserve and manage this very valuable resource. The salmon catch in 1986 was valued at about £5.5 million. When one takes into account the value to the economy in tourism revenue and earnings — a very substantial amount — people will recognise that the best management, legislation and procedures should be adopted to deal with the critically low salmon stock situation which we have at present.

Following my appointment I had meetings with the regional managers of all the fishery boards and I am now having meetings with the conservation boards. At these meetings I have impressed upon the protection staff, the regional managers and the conservation boards the necessity to ensure that illegal activities in relation to salmon fishing will be stamped out. Every means at the boards' disposal should be availed of to ensure that as far as possible illegal activities which are damaging to the salmon stock, would be dealt with. The purpose of the Bill is to restore the position which existed in relation to salmon conservation prior to the Supreme Court decision.

I recommend the Bill to the House.

Mrs. Doyle

The Bill before us concentrates our minds yet again on the whole vexed area of salmon conservation versus drift net fishing. It also raises yet again the role of the fisheries boards and whether their financial allocation allow them to carry out their statutory functions of management, conservation protection, development and promotion of inland fisheries and sea angling resources as far as the 12-mile limit.

In Ireland our inland surface water of 350.000 acres of lakes and 8.600 miles of main channel rivers comprises a far greater percentage of our total area than, for example, in England or other continental countries. Our inland fisheries are an extremely valuable self-renewing resource when exploited rationally and sensitively. There are no imported raw materials. It may come as some surprise that the value of our inland fisheries is of the order of £50 million, £30 million of which is from tourist angling and £15 million from Irish anglers.

The lack of interest in such an economically valuable resource, the lack of direction, the lack of policy, the lack of political motivation by successive Administrations in this area to face the inevitable decisions that must be taken before they are forced upon us by others is nothing short of scandalous. Perhaps the facts have not been highlighted in a language that can be easily comprehended. While we as politicians have obviously failed the industry — even if only by sins of omission — the interested parties themselves, apart from the fishermen who. quite rightly, have well articulated their own point of view, have been noticeably silent. We need more groups like the Southern Salmon and Trout Angling Association who are articulating the needs of inland fisheries and fishermen, the anglers, and who are concerned with the continuing commercial exploitation of salmon in particular by drift net fishing at sea and the whole business of illegal fishing.

We all await with eagerness the reporting of the Salmon Review Group set up by the last Government. The interim report is not now to be published. It has been suppressed. We must await the final draft. Will we as politicians have what it takes to make the difficult but necessary decisions in this whole area? The question must remain unanswered for the time being. Will the report remain as "an action plan, away from action", as a colleague of mine once put it? We know without any report from any review group that drift netting at sea is taking far too high a proportion of salmon catches. We know without any report that it is cropping mixed stocks, affecting the requirements of individual rivers such as the Slaney in my own county of Wexford. We know that the drift net fishermen follow the main runs of salmon at sea and that their large hauls devastate the renewable resources of the rod anglers as insufficient salmon make it to their native rivers to regenerate and so ensure a future for those interested in our stocks of wild salmon.

Drift nets are not causing enforcement problems so much in our estuaries as at sea. There are 820 drift net licences held by fishermen trying to make a living in difficult conditions. The Canadians are phasing out all drift netting at sea and compensating their fishermen. Could we, should we, or would we even consider the same approach? Norway is banning all drift netting at sea from 1989. If we do not bring order into the chaos which exists in this area we will soon be forced to by NASCO, the North Atlantic Salmon Conservation Organisation. Will we wait until we are pushed? Will we enforce any changes realistically? The list of questions is endless that will have to be answered and faced up to when the salmon review group reports. If we are honest with ourselves most of us know what is going to be put before us and I hope we all have the gumption to act and do what is right in this regard.

The Minister has outlined the technical nature of the Bill before me and how and why it has become necessary to tighten up the definition of a "fixed engine" to prevent further abuses and illegal fishing, due to a loophole in the Fisheries (Consolidation) Act, 1959, which became evident as a result of a Supreme Court judgment. As virtually all fixed engines, stake nets, bag nets, fixed draft nets, head weirs, fixed to the soil or rock and secured in one or more places are now illegal, any loophole not rapidly closed could be devastating in a particular area. Very few licences are still in existence for fixed engines. They were those granted before 23 December under the Salmon Fishery (Ireland) Act, 1983. The number of official licences under this Act which exist is in the region of 127 even though far fewer of these are now used.

If this legislation was not given the urgent resolution it is now receiving there would be an enormous temptation for some of the existing 820 drift net licensees to stake those nets. This, hopefully, will now be prevented. At least there will not be a legal provision for it to happen. While I fully respect the traditional rights of fishermen, including the estuary men and the rights of the few remaining operational fixed engine licensees, such as in Bag-in-Bun in County Wexford, in Kerry, Achill and the Moy fishery.

I welcome this legislation as an indication that the Minister may be prepared to go even further in protecting our native wild salmon stocks in the future when the salmon review group reports. I will rest my case in relation to the drafting of the Bill before us and trust that the Minister and his advisers and the parliamentary draftsman have done the job intended. I give my support to the Bill.

Mr. Cullen

I should like to say at the outset that we welcome this Bill and its contents. Once again it focuses our attention on the specific problems caused by drift netting as referred to by the previous speaker. While this legislation was necessary, it focused on the easiest prey to get at and the big fish, to coin a phrase, are still breaking the law and abusing the system on the high seas. This is the inherent problem we are facing today. The Minister in his opening speech made the point that our salmon stocks are at a critical level. We are all aware of what the solution should be. The question is, have we got the courage to see through the type of legislation and to back up the necessary legislation to ensure that the law is not broken, as it is being broken up wholesale at present? Many people who have traditional fishing rights operate in small boats, or currachs and they are not the big culprits. The larger vessels running miles of drift nets off our coastline are flagrantly disregarding the law as it stands. They have no interest in the long-term survival of the salmon industry because when the stocks run dry they will move on to different areas and as a country we will be left without one of our very few natural resources. The Government have to decide what resources they must put at the disposal of the fisheries boards to ensure that the law is implemented and adhered to. I sincerely hope that the report to be published will show the areas that are necessary for curtailment. I regret the interim report was not published: I do not know why it has be suppressed but it is easy to make the obvious guess as to why that has occurred. It does not need much elaboration or thought to look at that.

In his opening remarks the Minister referred to the aspects of the fishing industry which are relevant to tourism. I am very interested in this area. The Minister said that the salmon industry is worth some £5.5 million in direct terms to the tourism industry. However, we do not realise the true potential of the angling industry in respect of tourism. It would be a pretence for anybody in this House to make the point that we have a sound angling industry. We do not, but we have the potential and we are not paying serious attention to it. We should examine the angling industry in Scotland, a country that is near to us and which provides a very good example. In Scotland the angling industry alone is worth over £250 million in external revenue. That has been achieved because they had the courage to implement a fair system which gives an opportunity to protect the industry and enable it to grow. In Ireland we have rivers and stocks equal to, if not superior to those in Scotland, but we are not taking the opportunities afforded to us. It is another example of the will not being there because of too many vested interests holding sway to prevent the industry flourishing in a proper and constructive manner. That is not occurring in this country today.

In his speech the Minister said he was having meetings with the fisheries boards at present and in the coming weeks. It does not need any imagination on my part to guess what the Minister will be told. The reality is very stark. The fisheries boards do not have the resources to implement the law today. The situation is so bad that I believe the system has completely and utterly collapsed. If something is not done in the immediate short term to countermand this the consequences will be extremely serious.

In the broadest sense, this Bill has highlighted the problem areas that must be dealt with in a courageous and radical way. I agree the Bill is a small step along the way, but I believe we as an island nation need a far more urgent approach to build a serious fishing industry, which sadly we do not have at this time.

Mr. Begley

I welcome the Bill, but I am disappointed the Minister did not avail of the opportunity to bring in an entirely new fisheries Bill to cover all aspects of fishing. Having listened to the different speakers, one would gather that the genuine fishermen are criminals and gangsters who are only raping the salmon stock. I do not accept that. It is very significant that there was no mention of the big industrial concerns or the big farmers who pollute the estuaries. There is no question of penalties for those people.

Irish fishermen have caught salmon for generations and they are entitled to catch salmon. Some people like a nice weekend off; they may have a six hour day, two or three company cars at their disposal and would like to go out fishing in the evening. If they catch a salmon, they go to the local hotel and boast they have caught a 20 pounder. They are entitled to their fun but the people who have depended on fishing for their bread and butter for generations are entitled to live too. It is reflection on everybody that they do not get the necessary facilities to carry out their jobs. I know fishermen who have to get out at 3 o'clock in the morning and who come in at 9 o'clock in the evening having spent 15 hours in small boats, taking their lives in their hands. If a sudden squall came they were gone. Those people are genuine fishermen; they have families to rear and educate and they are entitled to their living, as anybody else.

There are cowboys in every walk of life, but the genuine fisherman is entitled to his living. We have heard much this morning about the famous review which is going to do so much for the fishing industry. Perhaps the review will recognise that a genuine fisherman who has used the drift net for many years is entitled to use it. Admittedly, the cowboy who has a net which is too long and too deep should be put out of business. Nobody has any respect for him.

There was no mention this morning of the Spanish and French who are out in Dingle Bay 20 miles off the Skelligs with miles of drift net raping the bay week in and week out. There is no mention of those people, or the French fisherman who is coming right up to the Skellig Rock with his drift net and raping the fishery. His is OK as he is a foreigner, but if the local man goes out and catches fish he is a blackguard, a criminal who should be dragged before the courts. We have to get our priorities right. I hope the Minister, who is a west coast man and who in my opinion has the interests of the fishing industry at heart, will take the opportunity to go around and meet the drift net fishermen. He should make out a set of rules and anybody who does not abide by the rules should face the law of the land. At this time we should not blame the Irish fisherman because the foreign fisherman is doing far more damage to the salmon industry. Nobody can tell what they have landed, as the fish are landed in the Isle of Man, in England, France and Spain and there is no mention of that. A wrong impression is being created about drift nets. The vast majority of drift net fishermen are law-abiding, seafaring men but I would nail the part-timer, the school teacher or industrialist who goes out fishing for the weekend with a drift net. He is not entitled to be there if he has not a licence. I make no excuse for that type of individual.

I ask the Minister to go from coast to coast to meet the fishermen during the summer recess. He should meet the fishermen who have genuine grievances and who are prepared to put their proposals before him. If it is necessary, we should regulate to have a four day week or so many hours a day for drift netting. At this time we cannot ban drift net fishermen from the Irish seas when the foreigners are doing it a couple of miles outside the limits. You cannot take away their livelihood from them. Where would we get the money to compensate hundreds of people? We have not the resources like the Canadians to phase out drift netting. The Minister has a golden opportunity during the summer recess to meet the fishermen. As there is so much talk about drift netting, why are drift nets legally for sale in Ireland? That is the only net fishermen can buy. What are we talking about? The net is legally for sale in this country. If it is illegal to sell it why is it sold here? Let somebody answer that. The same drift net is for sale in England, France, Spain and all coastal countries.

I wish the Minister well. He has a difficult job. At the moment he has the goodwill of the fishermen, and I know from meeting them that they are as good citizens as any. In regard to conservation, let the Minister think of the vested interests who are polluting our estuaries. Nail those people. They have influential company directors in the right places. There is no talk about the big boys but plenty of talk about the small boy.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Carey. Does Deputy Cullen wish to raise a point of order?

Mr. Cullen

I am sorry, a Cheann Comhairle, I thought I could come in again.

An Ceann Comhairle

No.

Mr. Carey

I am very interested in this Bill, and when last there was a Fisheries Amendment Bill before the House, I spoke about drift and draft nets. I am not satisfied that this Bill gives a clear definition of the use of drift nets on rivers and drift nets at sea. The Minister referred to the case in Enniscrone, County Sligo, but in other cases when the question of these nets arose the judges were unable to properly define what was really intended. I suggested at that time that draft and drift nets should apply on rivers and drift nets at sea. Despite what Deputy Begley says I believe that gross discrimination is practised by sea fishermen. What I suggest should control that and prevent the rape of salmon stocks at sea.

Recently I asked a question about the number of times the fisheries vessel patrolled the Donegal and north-east fisheries. In February, March and April I noticed that there were a number of patrols but in May and June when most of the young peel and salmon are running Donegal gets away with only four visits from the patrol vessels. Are the Department of the Marine making sufficient requests to the Department of Defence to see that fishermen behave themselves? I am told that normal fishermen who have genuine licences behave themselves, but we have cowboys, numerous unlicensed people in the north-west and Donegal making huge catches. I have heard of half deckers landing 400 and 500 salmon per day in recent weeks. I wish genuine licensed fishermen well, but if the State has respect for itself and for the future of the salmon stocks, surely the fishery vessels should be asked to patrol this area during this time.

I have spoken in this House about the rape of the Shannon estuary and people coming from other fishing ports in the south and probably from the north to the Clare coast. I am certain the Minister is aware of the complaints we have received about this. Indeed if what I hear is true, some come from even the far south and take the livelihood of the people and prevent stock from going up the river. Most of the restocking is done by the ESB and the ESB hatchery is sited on the Shannon at Parteen. Off the river Fergus we have a private conservation unit run by a local industry, Syntex. What a sad reflection on the State that it will not take action against these intruders at the appropriate time. I was appalled to read that the secretary of the fisheries board in Donegal said that they had no money to guarantee the control or patrol of the fisheries under their jurisdiction. I appeal to the Minister to have another look at that.

The time for the conservation of salmon is fast running out. I know that in this Bill the Minister is making a reasonable effort about fixed engines, but the real culprits, the people who have not got licences, who are uncontrolled, are getting away lightly. I understand that incidents occurred at sea and that there are difficulties off the Aran Islands. I appeal for more frequent inspection of these fishery grounds. I ask the Minister to consider whether draft net fishing on rivers and drift net fishing at sea should be included in the definition the Minister is bringing in.

Minister of State at the Department of the Marine (Mr. P. Gallagher)

I want to make a few brief points on this Bill and to refer to the comments made. This is very simple and necessary legislation in view of the Supreme Court decision some time ago in relation to the Fisheries (Consolidation) Act, 1959. The expression "fixed engine" is difficult to understand because one can get the impression that a fixed engine is some type of engine that is fixed. The term does not even relate to an engine, it relates to a stake net, a bag net, a fixed draft net, a head weir or "any net, implement, engine or device, fixed to the soil or secured by one or more anchors". One would have thought at that time that that legislation would have been sufficient. I would have thought that any net could not be fixed in the real sense of the word, that it would have to fluctuate somewhat in the water. However, we must respect the decision of the Supreme Court, thus the necessity to introduce and have this legislation passed as quickly as possible. As the Minister said, it will help to ensure greater conservation.

It is not necessary to elaborate on this. It is simple legislation and I am pleased that it has support from all sides of the House. I have referred to comments by some of the speakers. I would like to think that there would be unanimity among the Members opposite. However there is division there, but, at least they came into the House and many of them contributed to the debate on the Estimates here. On many mornings on the Order of Business some parties in this House stated that they do not have an opportunity to speak in this House. Let me put on the record that on that night when we had a very constructive debate on that Estimate our friends the PDs did not think it worth their while to become involved in that debate. There are people in this House who are genuinely interested in the matter. When we look at the press gallery we see the interest that is there. The Minister and Deputy Doyle referred to the importance of the industry and I fully endorse what they say. At times we get plenty of criticism. Last week in one of the national papers there was criticism of our attitude towards the Spaniards who fish off the south-west coast. That statement was full of inaccuracies. The officials of the Department, the Minister, myself or indeed the Opposition spokesperson were not asked for comments on the matter.

Last week the Minister instructed me to visit the south-west. I went down in one of the Army planes, surveyed the whole area and photographed all the foreign vessels fishing there, one of which was apprehended that same day. Every effort is being made within the constraints in which we must operate to solve this problem. That same week an irresponsible journalist stated that we were taking no action, that we were allowing the Spaniards themselves and the British Spaniards to come into the country and to rape our seas. As late as yesterday, boats were apprehended in that area. Of course the injunction which was obtained by the British Spaniards is not mentioned. That allows them, until their case is heard, to continue with the 75 per cent crewing. We hope that case will be heard some day next week. This will not deter us from continuing to police these waters and to apprehend these vessels. It is not just a question of 75 per cent crewing. It is a question of the size and the type of nets that are being used and of taking in small fish. We will continue to ensure that if those boats are going to fish off the coast they will do so legally and will not continue raping the waters off any part of the coast. It is unfair to the Ministers and the officials involved to give the wrong impression and to say that everything possible is not being done to solve the problem. It is also unfair to the Army and the Navy who are doing an excellent job in this regard.

Deputy Begley referred to pollution. This is an extremely serious problem. A spill into any of our rivers can be detrimental. There is also the question of drift net fishermen. These are traditional fishermen from whom the right to supplement their income, whether it be from small farming, by way of unemployment assistance or small farmers' dole, as it was, cannot be taken. There are some people who break the law and they will not receive support from any side of the House. However, it is unfair to give the impression that these people are almost millionaires. People should educate themselves better as far as drift net fishermen are concerned. It has been suggested that drift net fishing is wrong at sea but is all right in the estuaries. I would like to know what is meant by that.

There is a salmon review group in existence and there is no question of suppressing them in their work. Ironically, that review group were set up after the previous Minister made a statement in Howth that he would legalise monofilament. We all have an opportunity of expressing in this House our views on monofilament and the various interests and groups in the industry have an opportunity to express their views to the salmon review group who will then make a decision. Unfortunately, it was only three weeks after the former Minister, Deputy Kavanagh, stated in an interview with the press that monofilament would be legalised that the salmon review group was set up. The terms of reference of the review group are much too narrow. They should have a much wider scope. We respect the setting up of that group and we will not be afraid to grasp the nettle at the opportune time. All the interests of the industry will be taken into account inland fisheries, drift net fishermen, anglers and so on. I fully appreciate the importance of angling to the economy and to tourism. It is wrong to say that we must immediately ban the use of drift net fishing and compensate those fishermen. There is a wide range of problems in this area and we should not rush to issue a report until we have established all the facts.

It has been suggested also that salmon fishing is a renewable resource. Deputy Collins has stated that in ten years time there will be no salmon but we heard that ten and 20 years ago but thanks to the many angling associations throughout the country who contribute to the restocking there is a good supply of salmon this year. They do not think we give them full credit for it. They receive no monetary return from that investment. We should consider giving them assistance to help us in restocking salmon. The ESB also do their part. It is important to remember that in some parts of the country a levy of 1 or 1.5 per cent is collected by the co-ops and goes towards restocking purposes.

The Northern Regional Fisheries Board was mentioned. It is not very long since a payment of £10,000 was made to that board and was welcomed by the chairman, Pat Foley, and the manager, Alan McGurdy. That money will be used for restocking purposes. This should be done throughout the country, whether the fish is sold through co-ops or sold directly. A certain percentage should be retained for restocking purposes. This is a renewable resource and we should be assured that it continues.

Deputy Carey alleged that there are no patrol vessels in various part of this country. This is a matter for the Minister for Defence and his officials. I assure the Deputy that three patrol vessels that are in the water at all times make an even distribution around the coast.

Mr. Carey

They were not on the Donegal coast during May and June.

Mr. P. Gallagher

It is dangerous to become involved in a debate——

Mr. Carey

The Minister for Defence gave a reply on this matter last week.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Carey has already had an opportunity of contributing.

Mr. P. Gallagher

If the Deputy speaks with his colleague, with my constituency colleague, Deputy McGinley, who has an interest in the industry, who is au fait with it and who realises the importance of it to the small fishermen off the west coast, he would be briefed as to the presence of naval vessels along the west and north-west coast. The Deputy might also be interested to learn that a case of a small vessel which was taken into Rathmullan was brought before the court yesterday. If the facts do not suit some Deputies, I cannot help that. Many more people will be able to give the Deputy a full report of all the cases along the coast which were brought to court.

I hope the report of the review group will be available in the next few months. I say to Deputies and to the Opposition spokesperson that we should not rush into having this report ready just for the sake of that. We should consider it carefully in relation to the use of the nets and the use of monofilament. Deputy Deasy suggested that we should consider a mix of monofilament and traditional nets or the use of monoace and multimono nets. He also asked if there should be a tagging system or a quota system. All these questions must be addressed. While it is popular to knock people, if there are difficulties individual Deputies should try to prevail upon the fishermen in their own constituencies to stay within the law. Whenever the Department get the opportunity they will ensure that there will be no harassment of the authorities and that cases will be brought before the courts.

In this country illegal fishing takes place after the fishing season. It is not just the fishermen who are to blame because they can only dispose of the fish if people are prepared to buy them. We should try to stamp out this practice immediately because it results in illegally-caught fish being sold at half price but at any price it is a bonus to the fishermen concerned. It is certainly a major bonus to the buyer who can sell his fresh, smoked or frozen fish at the same price as others. It is unfair competition to those genuine fishermen and genuine buyers who have to pay the premium price throughout the season. That reflects on the price the following year. We must look at this, if we get an opportunity, at the end of the year.

It is heartening to hear reports that there has been a good run this year and that prices are holding up well particularly in view of the suggestions made inside and outside the House that farm fish will have a serious effect on salmon. In my view there will always be a premium for white fish. It has been established that farm fish, whatever its quality, will never match the quality of wild fish. Wild fish, with the price holding up, will always attract a premium price as against other fish. I do not hold the same concern as some people in the industry that we should be very careful in regard to our policies on farm fish. We have the right circumstances with pure clean water off our coast to pursue not only farming salmon but farming white fish. I do not wish to open up that debate when we are considering the question of fixed engines but if we could do that in years to come we might be able to overcome the problem of continuity of supplies of white fish.

Mr. Cullen

On a point of order, the Minister of State referred to the fact that I was missing from the House for the debate on this fisheries Estimate——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not a point of order.

Mr. Cullen

On that day a person very close to me died and I was unable to be present in the Chamber. It is highly regrettable that such a comment should be made to reflect on me. It was totally out of order and reflected on my party.

Mr. P. Gallagher

It was the Deputy's party I was talking about; it was not personal.

Mr. Cullen

It was.

Mr. P. Gallagher

We are too small for the PD's; we are poor people.

Mr. Deasy

The expression "fixed engines" is one I find most intriguing.

Mr. P. Gallagher

It is a mystery.

Mr. Deasy

I doubt if there is one person in a thousand who understands what that expression means. It sounds like an engine in the middle of a boat tied down by blocks of cement or heavy metal.

Mr. P. Gallagher

Three persons in the one God.

Mr. Deasy

Little do people realise that it is merely a net anchored at sea or in a river. That definition should be clarified.

Mr. Daly

It can be a cage.

Mr. Deasy

I am conversant with the laws governing inland fisheries but I am not totally familiar with the legal definition of a "fixed engine". To me a fixed engine was always a staked net which was more often than not staked at both ends. The Minister should have explained in the explanatory memorandum in layman's language what is involved. He should not have used the language of a parliamentary draftsman or a barrister. He should tell us what the expression means. Is it a net staked at both ends by anchors or stakes or is it a net staked at one end by an anchor or a stake while the fisherman goes off to the pub to have a couple of pints or goes home to bed for a well deserved rest? I am not clear what it is and I do not believe anybody could be clear from the jargon that is used in the explanatory memorandum which states:

...held by hand or made stationary in any other way...

That explanation is for the birds. It should be clarified. The people who compiled that are talking through their hats and do not know the text of the Bill or the contents of the explanatory memorandum.

This is a small technical piece of legislation but it does not address the problem that has beset our salmon industry in the last 20 years, ever since the advent of drift netting at sea. Deputy Doyle, in the course of her contribution, reckoned that the value of the salmon and angling industry was between £40 million and £50 million but that includes all aspects of inland fishing, salmon and brown or white trout fishing by rod and coarse fishing by rod whether it is on the lakes of Cavan and Monaghan or on the Blackwater River. It is a very diverse industry which is an integral part of the tourist business. We should differentiate between the value of the inland fishing in the sporting context and in the context of drift netting at sea. However, while they are poles apart in many ways one is dependent on the other. If drift netting at sea is not controlled or curtailed we are not going to have any inland fisheries where salmon angling is concerned. It will be wiped out and we have been warned often enough about that. We need a radical change in the law to see that that does not happen and this technical adjustment does not matter a tráithnín because it will not make any great difference.

This is the season for high jinks on the high seas and unless the law is changed quickly and dramatically we will have a real problem where all our salmon industry is concerned, whether it is drift netting at sea or the livelihood of thousands we are concerned about. Those involved in catering for angling visitors will be at risk. We must do something quickly. In the course of the debate on the Estimate for the Department of the Marine I outlined to the Minister what I felt should be done and I expected a positive response but I have not heard anything since. From now until about the middle of August we will have a series of running battles around our coast between the law enforcement agencies, the bailiffs, the Garda Síochána and our Naval Service in direct conflict with people who are trying to eke out a living under impossible terms of reference. I am referring to the hard pressed fishermen who have been fishing since the month of March but whose return would not pay the cost of running the boats they are using. Those fishermen depend on their catches in the next month to make sufficient money to keep them going for the next 12 months. A regime should be introduced under which people can expect to get an opportunity to make a reasonable living. At the moment our fishermen are in direct conflict with our law and that is a regrettable state of affairs. I am asking that the law be changed so as to permit people to make a decent living without being harassed or forced to break the law. Those fishermen do not want to break the law.

Disciplines will be introduced within fishing communities if the law is amended to give all our fishermen a reasonable chance to make a decent living. However, as long as the present archaic law governing the length of the net and the type of material used is maintained the law will be broken. The law will be broken because fishermen will have nets in the form of "fixed engines" blocking the estuaries of major and minor rivers. In doing so they stop fish from going up the rivers and thereby prevent the anglers from getting any fish at all. There has been a massive decline in real terms in the value of the angling portion of the tourist industry over the past 20 years. That fact is not being faced up to. Tourism should be one of our major industries. We talk about the tourist industry being our second largest industry. The Minister for Tourism and Transport introduced an Estimate here on Tuesday night last and he said that by the end of the century tourism would be the single largest industry in the world.

It should almost be the single largest industry in this country but it is not. We are falling far short of targets to which we aspired years ago. One of the reasons is that our inland fisheries industry has declined rather than progressed. It has declined for a number of reasons but a major reason is that the mouths of rivers are being blocked by a vast mileage of these nets and the fish are not getting up. The tourists are not coming and our native sea anglers are fed up to the teeth with the present system. I am asking for a little bit of sanity and commonsense to be introduced. A limited amount of monofilament net should be allowed to be used when drift netting for salmon. I believe that the fishing communities will adapt to that discipline and the law enforcement agencies will not have a great problem if there is a compromise on this situation. Of course there will always be poachers. Will Shakespeare was a poacher and even some of our conservators are poachers, from what I am told, and some of our bailiffs have had——

Mr. Carey

Some politicians are good poachers.

Mr. Deasy

Some of our politicians too I am told. I know of a county councillor who was apprehended last year, It is a way of life with some people and they would not be happy unless they were breaking the law to some extent. I am not too worried about people who get a thrill from a slight manipulation of the law; what I am worried about are the people who are fishing commercially with nets. These nets can be five or six miles long and the engines are in the form of fixed engines in most cases. A trawler man can put out a net a couple of miles here and a couple of miles there, go away and come back in a day or two and get a couple of thousand pounds worth of fish. That is ruinous to the salmon industry, to the tourist industry and to the overall economy. We are at loggerheads for no good reason. I am asking that a limited amount of monofilament net be allowed in conjunction with a certain amount of nylon net and then let us see how the law, when changed, will operate. I am sure it will enable people to make a reasonable living from the sea and I am sure it will allow a huge amount of salmon to go up the rivers to spawn. That is the essence of the whole inland fisheries regime. You must let the fish up the river to spawn. There has been an alarming drop in the number of spawning salmon going up certain rivers. It can all be put down to the damage that is being done by the blocking off of estuaries by miles and miles of nets which are nothing more than fixed engines to which this Bill refers but does not attempt to solve. I would ask the Minister to leave a legacy. He will be remembered for evermore as the man who saved the North Atlantic salmon as it applies to Ireland. Would it not be a great epitaph to have on his tombstone over there in Doonbeg or Miltown Malbay or wherever it is?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Would the Deputy fix his mental engine on the business we are discussing.

Mr. Deasy

The Leas-Cheann Comhairle will be remembered for the rose on his lapel, the spawning of the rose industry. You cannot get everything you want in politics but I often wish I was Minister for the Marine for a period so that I could apply what I think is commonsense and a bit of discipline to the fisheries laws. It is so obvious and it will be done.

Deputy Carey mentioned the people living by the estuaries. They have not got a chance. The traditional net salmon fisherman resides by the estuary. He made a living going back into the 1960's and for centuries before that in a nice, civilised, regular way but with the advent of the drift netters at sea he has been poverty stricken because the fish are not getting into him. Whether he has a drift net licence or is a snap net salmon fisherman he has no hope and the only way he can make a living is by breaking the law. He has to use monofilament net and he has to use a greater length of net than is allowed under the existing regulations. You are making law breakers of people who have been models of good citizenship over the centuries. Those people never broke the law but they are being put in a position where they either starve or break the law. I know a few of them who have gone hungry rather than break the law because you do still have this basic decency in our society. There are people who will not go out and break the law but they have had to give up fishing because they could not make a shilling.

Surely the Minister and we as legislators should see to it that such people are protected. There is no protection for them and that is an enormous reflection on all of us here. We all know it is a fact, so something will have to be done. What better time to do it than now when we are entering the season of high conflict on the high seas? Last Tuesday morning on my way to Dublin I was listening to a report of an incident off the Aran Islands. The manager of the Western Fisheries Board was being interviewed and he detailed how members of his staff had been attacked the previous day with a boat hook, which is a fairly lethal weapon, when they went to collect some monofilament net. We have seen this over the past six or seven years. Constituents of my own have gone to prison in recent years for breaking the law by the use of monofilament net or fixed engines or a combination of both. It is a ritual every summer now. We have massive conflicts between the law enforcement agencies and the fishermen. It should not happen. They do not just use boat hooks, they are using slashers, iron bars, and even shotguns have come into use on occasions. It is dreadful and if it continues there will be loss of life sooner or later.

It is a highly emotive and dangerous situation and there is an onus on the Government and on the Minister to see that the situation is rectified. We need changes quickly. The Minister of State, Deputy Gallagher, referred to after season fishing. Of course it is prevalent. All laws relating to salmon fishing at sea and in estuaries are being broken. It is not just after season fishing, it is weekend fishing as well. As Members know, the salmon fishing week is a five day week, and people are not supposed to fish on Saturday or Sunday, and the closing date for the season varies from one part of the country to another — 15 July in some areas and 15 August elsewhere — but those dates are a joke. They are not complied with. As the Minister said, the end of the season should be one of the dates I mentioned, but people often fish well into September. The August and September fish are going up the river to spawn and unless we stop all this illegal fishing — in terms of the length of net, weekend fishing or after end of season fishing — the salmon fishing industry and many thousands of jobs will be in jeopardy.

I appeal to the Minister not just to bring in a tiny piece of legislation which had to be brought in because of a Supreme Court decision, but to bring in legislation which is useful and meaningful and which will give the salmon fishing industry an impetus to grow, as well as helping our tourist industry and providing worthwhile employment for thousands of Irish people at home.

Mr. O'Donoghue

I am delighted to have the opportunity to speak on this Bill. I found it most interesting to listen to Deputy Deasy speak about the need for a new regime, the need to treat the industry more seriously, to do something about this ailing industry. Deputy Deasy was in Government for four years but absolutely nothing was done about this industry, to the best of my knowledge——

Mr. Deasy

I had an industry to look after myself.

Mr. O'Donoghue

Maybe the Deputy should have had a chat with the then Minister to see if something could have been done. I believe there is a considerable amount of ignorance about drift net fishermen. Whether you are a legal or an illegal drift net fisherman, in the eyes of many people you are a drift net fisherman and probably doing something wrong. The truth is quite different. There is a considerable number of small fishermen who would not be living here today were it not for the fact that during the season they are able to fish for salmon. There is a certain amount of cynicism about these people but it has to be remembered that they and their families are dependent on this industry and if they could not fish for salmon they would have to emigrate. As I said in this House before, meanwhile back at the ranch, the rape of Irish waters continues.

I congratulate the Minister on the recent arrests of Spanish boats fishing in Irish waters. It is clear that he is taking considerable interest in this scandal which has been going on for far too long. The time has come for legislation to be introduced for the compulsory acquisition of a foreign boat fishing in Irish waters and caught for the second time. Far too often one boat comes with a Naval vessel while other foreign vessels fish on. The fines have become meaningless. Fines of up to £50,000 and £75,000 do not make a difference to these fishermen any more because they are operating in fleets. While one boat is in the harbour facing fines, the remainder are outside more than making up for any fines which may be imposed.

There have been instances of foreign boats being captured, brought into Irish harbours, going out again having obtained bonds and carrying on as if they had never been captured. It is time for a rethink and for the introduction of legislation for the compulsory acquisition of these boats if they are found guilty of a second offence. If that does not work, let us introduce legislation which would mean that boats would be confiscated for a first offence.

The problem of the drift nets is not one that can be easily solved. You have to marry the interests of the genuine fishermen with the necessity to conserve. You have to marry the absolute necessity of these drift net fishermen to fish, as has been their traditional right for generations, with the interests of the inland fisheries. In this respect legislation would have to be introduced, if necessary, so that a national restocking programme would be undertaken. It is incredible that even though we have some of the finest rivers and lakes in Europe, we have not undertaken a national restocking programme financed by the Department. That is very much needed. Anything else is a hit and miss affair, and in this business hit and miss affairs are not good enough.

I believe that if there was a national restocking programme and if legislation were introduced to provide for the compulsory acquisition of foreign boats found guilty of illegally fishing in our waters, the necessary infrastructure would be laid for the Irish salmon industry, there would be greater co-ordination, and, to use Deputy Deasy's words, a new regime set up. The Irish fishing industry and those involved in drift net fishing for salmon are more than anxious that there should be a new regime and a more co-ordinated approach to the industry. They are more than anxious that the industry would survive. Let us not kid ourselves. It is not in the interests of any drift net fisherman to bring about a situation where there would not be sufficient salmon, but it is fair to say that the scare about the scarcity of salmon has always been laid at the door of the drift net fishermen and, worse than that, it has been laid specifically at the door of Irish drift net fishermen whose average boat size is only 36 feet.

National pride, if nothing else, demands that we get at the truth. The boats which are consistently fishing in Irish waters and raping the seas should be informed that the penalties will be far more severe in future. It is ironic that our trading partners in Europe are some of the worst offenders in this regard. If our boats were powerful enough to go into other waters we would hear a lot about it, I would go so far as to say that the fishermen would be jailed for a long time. We have been too soft on these people. They are only laughing at us and it is time we realised it.

Inland fisheries are crucially important to our tourist industry. A salmon caught in a river or lake by a tourist generates a considerable amount of money. In this respect, voluntary agencies and people who have been restocking the rivers and lakes should be congratulated. However, they need assistance. Other factors causing the depletion of salmon stocks must be looked at. Pollution is a major source for the diminution of salmon in lakes and inland rivers. The indiscriminate taking of gravel from river beds is also a reason for lack of spawning in the rivers.

To solve problems facing the fishing industry, we will have to take serious measures against foreign boats fishing in our waters and we will also have to concentrate on protecting our own fishermen instead of very often criticising them.

Mr. Kavanagh

My party agree with the terms of the Bill and have no criticism to make. Our main criticism is in regard to what is not in the Bill. It is a very small Bill dealing with a limited problem which has arisen from a court decision and the Minister is obviously right to have it attended to as quickly as possible.

I am disappointed that the Bill is so limited. I know this Bill must be passed quickly but we should accept that there is a far larger problem in the fishing industry with which we must deal. For the very short time in which I was in that Department we were aware of the many problems in the industry and its future. It is one of the areas which has been targeted by the Government for development in an orderly fashion over the years. Everyone, from the Minister down to the smallest fisherman, knows that there are many problems caused by the different pressures and needs of the industry, including legislation introduced from time to time by the EC and larger boats fishing in deep waters for white fish and other species. Perhaps also the limitations placed on the industry by the EC has stopped the industry from developing as fast as we would have liked. Nevertheless, over the past few years there has been an acceptance in the EC of greater need for larger quotas for our fishing industry. This was achieved at the last meeting of the Council of Ministers which I attended in December.

Spokesmen for the various parties are concerned about drift netting, inland fishermen and the problem of the industry as it affects tourists. I hope the Minister will give us some idea of his policy for the fishing industry. When I was Minister for Fisheries and Forestry the greatest problem was the illegal use of monofilament nets which must be tackled by the Government as a matter of urgency. To do that and in fairness to everybody in the industry, I felt it necessary to set up a committee in the Department drawing from personnel in other Departments and agencies who dealt with the catching and sale of salmon so that a total input from all areas could be given to the Minister as a guideline for future legislation in regard to catching salmon.

It has been said that monofilament net is the modern aid to fishing and that it cannot be ignored. When I made a comment in Cork that I was prepared to look at modern methods of catching fish and that they should not be condemned, I was not saying I was in favour of monofilament nets being used to catch salmon. I was well aware that the vast bulk of salmon caught around our coasts is fished illegally with a monofilament net. It is not illegal to fish with monofilament net except in the case of salmon. It is also illegal to use nets beyond a certain length and depth and which exceed the proper mesh size. There are also laws in regard to fishing at certain times of the year and if they are ignored very strong measures must be taken. The Minister is well aware of all these problems from his own constituency and from his position. Order must be brought back to fishing around our coasts. There is a feeling that the numbers of salmon caught in draft nets have adversely affected the draft and snap net fishermen who generally work in the estuaries around our coast. The angler — tourist or local — should also be considered. We are famous for our fishing rivers and lakes but many of them have been depleted of salmon stocks not just, as the previous speaker said, by someone taking gravel from the river bed but simply because salmon never reach some of our former famous fishing rivers.

Deputy Doyle lives on the same coast as I do and will agree that the east coast has suffered from over fishing of salmon on parts of the west coast. I am not saying that one group of fishermen are to be put out of business but the law must be applied as it stands and if the law is inadequate it should be changed. The committee I set up to give me professional information as to how the law should be applied, will, I hope, soon have a report on the Minister's desk. The Minister has indicated that he has not yet got that report. There is an urgency about getting that information. It is not just a matter of putting a limitation on fishing but there is also the sale of illegally caught salmon. That must be stopped. There would not be an industry for illegally caught salmon if there were not receivers who are obviously making very large sums of money because they can dispose of the salmon very easily. When the Minister gets this report I hope he will act on it as quickly as possible.

The monofilament net, as well as being illegal, has had no limitation placed on it as regards length, time of year or time of day or night. These nets can be used at night whereas the old fishing net could be used only in the day time. That means that salmon can be taken from the waters around our coast at night time also. The resources of the fishery board are inadequate for their work. This was so when I was Minister and I know the pressures as regards finance in every Department. It is impossible to expand surveillance and do the work that needs to be done to make good the shortfall in the board's activities. The cutbacks have operated to the benefit of those who are involved in illegal fishing. During Hurricane Charlie we lost a fishery surveillance boat on the east coast which to my knowledge has not been replaced. There would be very little salmon surveillance needed because of the depleted stocks but the surveillance boat needs to be replaced. I realise the problems the Minister has with regard to the amount of money available to him. Unless there is surveillance and a proper application of the law, even as it stands at the monent, we will not have an improvement over the chaotic conditions that prevail as regards the taking of salmon around our coasts. There is a need for more stringent legislation, even purely because of the operation of the monofilament net. All of us should give the Minister a reasonable time to settle into his Department and sort matters out. In the absence of the report I have mentioned we must accept what is in the Bill before us today. It is to cover a leak which was there as a result of a court judgment. The Minister is right to act as quickly as he did.

Fish farming is a very important area for the future and all Governments are totally behind the efforts to expand in this area. Fish farming will have an effect on the taking of salmon around our coasts because, due to the law of supply and demand, as the fish farmed salmon become plentiful there will not be the same attraction to catch salmon illegally — the price will drop. Fish farming has been placed on a good footing but, of course, a great deal more will have to be done.

There is a great deal of concern among communities around the country who feel that the larger concerns coming into the industry will cut off traditional operations. People will no longer be able to fish the traditional lakes or rivers from which they got their living. I hope there will be a coming together of all the interests who are moving into various areas in the country, to ensure that the traditional communities, both wholetime and part-time, will have their needs taken into account. They would be the first to benefit from employment in these new industries that are very important to the expansion of our fishing industry.

The Minister is probably very well aware of a little sales trick that seems to be operating here at the moment, when we have a scarcity of salmon. It is possible to bring in salmon from other parts of the world and one of the areas mentioned to me has been the Pacific. Such salmon has been described, when it is smoked, as Irish smoked salmon. Many will buy that and assume on its face value that it is a product of this country, salmon caught in Irish waters, whereas smoked Irish salmon should be underlined on packaged fish to indicate that the salmon has been caught in these waters. There is a great difference between the quality of one and the other. The presentation of our goods is very important, whether it be in the shops or at any of the outlets such as our ports and airports. Where fish are caught should be clearly indicated, not just where they are smoked. I may be straying a little beyond the terms of the debate in saying this.

Taking into account my experience of the last two debates, this is an opportunity for me to get more than five minutes to speak on this subject. I wish the Minister and his Minister of State well, both are very well versed in the industry. I know they have the interests of the industry at heart. We must all give our co-operation in this regard. I hope they will bring some measure of order back into an area which is now in a certain amount of disorder due to the catching of salmon around our coast to the detriment of the estuarial fishermen and of the very large and important tourist industry of fishing with rod and line in our rivers. It is very important to us.

One case is not more deserving than another. There is enough for everybody to make a good living in this industry and both this Government and the previous Government are aware of that. The Minister should try to prise a little more money out of the Minister for Finance to contribute to the expansion of our fishing industry. I wish the Minister well in EC negotiations which are always very tough. It is sometimes misunderstood as to what we can get for this country in relation to the expansion of the various quotas of species available to us. I am totally in favour of this Bill and look forward to new measures being brought in as quickly as possible to deal with the problems which I have indicated in my contribution.

Minister for the Marine (Mr. Daly)

I thank Deputies for their contributions, for their constructive support for this measure and indeed in the whole area of fisheries development. Anyone reading the report of this debate will learn of the conflicting interests involved in such a varied industry as the salmon industry. Perhaps the Department of the Marine is the only body with no axe to grind in relation to the development of this industry.

I agree with Deputy Doyle's point that one of the factors which is possibly detrimental to development of inland and salmon fisheries relates to the lack of direction and policy. The absence of a defined policy in relation to the management, control and conservation of our resources is probably the most inhibiting factor in the development of this resource. The new Department of the Marine will have a division to deal with the exploitation of inland fisheries and with the development of overall policy. We will have a policy planning division which should pay special attention to policy, planning and long-term strategies to develop fisheries. These resources have up until now been relatively under-exploited as a result of the absence of forward planning and policy. It is vital to have forward planning.

One of the major reasons for establishing this Department was to develop a co-ordinated overall approach towards developing our marine industries so as to exploit to the maximum the potential for jobs and for revenue for the State. We have often been deflected from our main purpose by dealing with details and we have lost sight of our overall policy objectives. The main thrust of the commercial development division of Roinn na Mara will be to cut itself away from the details and conflicting interests and produce long-term policies to develop this huge resource.

This industry offers prospects for job creation and tourism revenue. We are fully aware of the potential of the inland fisheries in relation to tourism. That potential has been identified in the document published by the Central Fisheries Board in consultation with the regional fisheries boards. It is being examined in the Department.

Deputy Doyle indicated that more attention needed to be given to developmental aspects of inland fisheries. The fisheries boards have worked adequately within the limits of the resources available to them on conservation aspects of inland fisheries but the developmental potential was never adequately dealt with by the boards. In my recent consultations and discussions with the regional board managers I pointed out that under existing legislation the boards have a statutory responsibility in the overall framing and presentation of development plans for inland fisheries in their areas. I advised them of the desirability of producing at the earliest opportunity development plans for each of their areas as to how we should develop inland fisheries. I pointed out to some of the regional boards the shortcomings in the way they are structured and financed and in their powers and responsibilities.

The financial allocations available from central Government is not adequate to meet their needs. The boards will have to undertake self-financing developmental programmes so that they can do much of the work which up to now they have asked the Government to fund. Within our financial limits it is not realistic to expect that we can undertake developmental programmes unless there is some method of financing at local level. In my discussions with the boards not only did we talk about reviewing administrative arrangements which are now in place bearing in mind that certain changes that took place in recent times have to be taken into account, but we discussed overall development of the administrative structures. We will be setting up a new research institute to deal with marine research. This will co-ordinate the activities at present being undertaken by various organisations. Bearing all this in mind, there is a necessity to look at the funding of the boards to see how best they can undertake self-financing developmental programmes.

In each board area at present there are companies and organisations in the private sector who are willing to make investments in this type of development. As Deputy Kavanagh pointed out the fish farm development which has taken place during the past number of years and which is very exciting because of the forward looking policy in that area, would scarcely have been possible if there was no private industrial investment. I instanced the case of Carroll Industries. They are an Irish company who have invested substantially in the development of fish farming and aquaculture in coastal areas, especially along the west coast. I compliment industries like Carroll Industries who have the courage to invest substantial amounts of money in a new and exciting venture, in the fish farming area. This area has been relatively underdeveloped up to now. Its potential in terms of job creation and so on can only be realised by way of successful private investment. Opportunities are available in the fish farming area for private investment from companies like Carroll Industries but there are opportunities for such investment also in inland fisheries within the regional board areas. I would encourage Irish companies to get involved with the regional agencies and with Roinn na Mara in organising and exploiting possibilities for development and job creation in these areas.

The main purpose of the Bill is to close a loophole in the existing legislation. I support fully the views expressed by Deputy Begley in relation to traditional fishermen. The livelihood of fishermen who have been involved in traditional net salmon fishing for generations is fundamental and paramount. Not only should we take into account the possibilities for exploitation of our resources for people who have been traditionally involved in salmon fishing but we should recognise also the contribution they have made to traditional salmon fishing in the areas of conservation, restocking and protection. It would not be possible for the regional boards to protect inland fisheries were it not for the co-operation of traditional fishermen. We have to recognise that traditional salmon fishermen have a legitimate right to be involved in this business. We cannot contemplate the total demise of the traditional salmon fisherman. They are a very valuable part of the industry and have to be protected. We have to ensure, by taking the necessary measures, that they will have a livelihood even if it is only to supplement the incomes from their smallholdings. We place a very high value on the co-operation of the traditional salmon fishermen who have been involved in this industry for generations. We hope that through the rational exploitation of the stock there will be a future for them.

I know Deputy Carey is concerned about illegal activities in drift net fishing off the coast. I compliment the previous Minister for the action he took in protecting exclusive areas along the west coast, including the mouth of the Shannon. I assure Deputy Carey that we are equally concerned about the activities of the cowboy operators, as he describes them. They are of no benefit to the industry and this has been recognised by every Deputy who has spoken this morning. They appreciate that the so-called cowboy operators are no asset to the industry. Every effort must be made to stamp out their activities. It is my belief that within existing legislation we have sufficient legislative powers to deal with these illegal operators. Not only will this illegal activitity have to be dealt with at sea where it is creating tension and anxiety but it has to be dealt with on the shore also. I have directed the regional fisheries boards to ensure that the illegal activities which are taking place off shore are monitored and dealt with at the point of the sale and disposal of these illegal catches. Within existing legislative controls we have adequate power to deal with this. I have issued an instruction to the boards to deal with this problem to the best of their ability and within the limits of the resources available.

Deputy Carey will be glad to know that there is an improvement in the salmon catches in the Shannon Estuary this season. This is a welcome change from the position which obtained during the past number of years. I compliment the boards and staff and assure them of our support for the work they are undertaking in very difficult circumstances in this respect. We have had the support of the Navy and will continue to have it in protecting salmon catches. I have spoken to the Minister for Defence in that regard and he has assured me that the resources available to the Navy and to the Minister for Defence will be utilised to the maximum advantage so that we can protect inshore fisheries to the best of our ability. There will be breaches of the law and poaching and we would be naive in the extreme if we were to think that because we are going to make a determined effort we would stamp out these activities. We will do the best we can to deal with these problems both through the utilisation of our resources and through co-operation with the Garda Síochána and the Navy. Through this measure has been described as a minor one, I assure Deputies it will have very major consequences for the salmon fishing industry. Within the limits of the resources available to us and through this legislation we will endeavour to stamp out illegal activities this season.

Deputy Begley referred to reports about pollution. From reading today's papers I have to compliment the IFA and the ICMSA for the constructive views they have expressed in relation to the indiscriminate polluting of some of our major rivers and tributaries by way of silage effluent and so on. Much of this pollution happens through a lack of foresight and planning and through carelessness. We cannot tolerate this. I take this opportunity to appeal to the farming organisations to continue the support they are now giving to the regional fishery boards and the inland fisheries protection services in encouraging farmers to be more cautious about farming developments in the vicinity of rivers because silage pollution can cause enormous damage that is far beyond the comprehension of people who cause the pollution. It is an alarming problem and one on which we have to take some action. I assure Deputies that we will take action in the most effective way we can to deal with this problem.

I am reasonably happy with the progress we are making this season. If the Deputy checks — and we can supply the information — he will find that the run of salmon into the tributaries and into the catchments this season has been up on last year and there has been a substantial improvement. That is not to say that we are satisfied, but catches in the lower Shannon area, which is the area with which I am most familiar, have been very much improved on last year and indeed improved on many years.

Mrs. Doyle

They are not reaching the Slaney in sufficient numbers.

Mr. Daly

I propose to visit the Slaney area soon.

Mrs. Doyle

Good.

Mr. Daly

We will have a look at what needs to be done in the Slaney. If the situation improves on the west coast and in the Shannon estuary I have no doubt that it is only a matter of time until the runs which we are experiencing in the Shannon now get on to the Slaney. The river Slaney has been a very valuable fishery and we would be very concerned to ensure that whatever action is necessary will be taken to protect the Slaney fisheries.

Deputy O'Donoghue referred to the need for a national restocking programme. That is a very laudable suggestion. I am aware that some action has been taken by individual organisations and by many voluntary organisations. I take this opportunity to thank the voluntary organisations and associations who have undertaken restocking programmes of one kind or another and I assure them of our support. I congratulate Fergus Salmon Anglers who have opened the first salmon hatchery which has been organised by a voluntary organisation in that area. They are doing valuable work in the development of salmon stocks in the Fergus catchment which is a very valuable salmon fishery as Deputy Carey is aware. The work of the Fergus Salmon Anglers has been well recognised. This is the kind of activity we would like to see taking place in many other areas. We will offer them every scientific advice possible and some financial assistance within the limits available if we can encourage voluntary organisations like the salmon anglers associations and organisation to get involved in this type of development programme which we hope to be able to support.

During my recent visit to the European Commission in Brussels I indicated the desirability of a programme for the development of inland fisheries. I hope, when the Commissioner comes here at the end of July, that we will be in a position to discuss in more detail the prospects for some Community interest and involvement in the whole area of inshore fisheries restocking and perhaps work out some development programme which will be supported by the Community to deal with this very important area.

In dealing with the issue of monofilament nets and the control and protection of our salmon industry I would like to await the views of the review body before making any more definite statements about it. Apart from my responsibility in the ministerial sense I have had a personal interest in salmon fisheries for 30 or 40 years. I have been involved with the Shannon Fisheries Board and the Limerick board of conservators for a number of years. As an ex-employee of that board and as a member of the board we have a good idea of what needs to be done. We will await the findings of the advice that is available from our own technical and professional people and from the review body which was set up by the previous Minister. I assure the Deputies that we have to be realistic enough to know — I think all of us here are — that with the best will in the world and with the best conservation laws and with the best protection measures we can devise and implement, we will always have salmon problems connected with the conservation area. It would probably be a much duller country for us if we did not have it. All we can do is give undertakings that we will, within the limits of the financial and the legislative resources available to us, endeavour to ensure that the valuable salmon fishery, and the valuable inland fisheries are carefully managed, conserved and developed to ensure that there will be a future for those who have traditionally made a living from it and it would benefit the visiting angler, to the tourism industry and our community under the national development of this huge resource which has remained relatively underdeveloped. I thank the Deputies who contributed to this constructive and useful debate.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill put through Committee, reported without amendment, received for final consideration and passed.