A number of Deputies have tabled Private Notice Questions in respect of the recent kidnapping of an Irish citizen. I will call the Members in the Order in which they submitted questions to my office.
Private Notice Questions. - Dublin Kidnapping.
asked the Minister for Justice if he will make a statement on the events over the weekend at Midleton, County Cork, in connection with the kidnap of John O'Grady; and the reason for the failure of the security forces on this occasion.
asked the Minister for Justice if he will order an investigation into all circumstances of the unsuccessful attempt to detain those suspected of involvement in the kidnapping of John O'Grady near Midleton, County Cork, on Monday; if he will say what measures are being taken to secure the release of Mr. O'Grady and the arrest of those responsible for the kidnapping; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
asked the Minister for Justice if he will assure the Dáil that his Department are making sufficient resources of manpower and material available to the members of the Garda Síochána searching for the kidnappers of John O'Grady.
asked the Minister for Justice if he is satisfied that all necessary resources, including adequate personnel, equipment and finance, are now being made available to the gardaí charged with the speedy return to safety of a person (details supplied) kidnapped from his home over two weeks ago together with the apprehension of those responsible; if he will outline the reasons for the apparent breakdown in communications last Monday between Garda personnel involved in the unsuccessful recovery operation at Ballyedmond near Midleton, County Cork, and those responsible at Garda Headquarters in Dublin; if he will assure the House that steps are being taken to ensure a proper co-ordinated campaign so as to procure the early release of the hostage; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I will answer the four questions together.
At the outset, I want to stress to the House that my prime concern, and that of the Government, is for the safe return of Mr. O'Grady to his family. Accordingly, it is not my intention to say anything here today which might in any conceivable way militate against the achievement of that objective. I am sure that all Deputies from all sides of the House will be anxious to adopt a similar attitude.
Deputies will be aware of the nationwide search for Mr. O'Grady which has been under way since his kidnapping became known to the Garda. Major Garda efforts and resources were devoted to the search without any concrete result until Monday last when, as a result of intelligence received, three uniformed gardaí went to check a transport container at the rear of a cottage situated about two miles outside Midleton. The gardaí spoke to the owner of the cottage, ascertained the name of the person who had responsibility for the container, called to that person's home and invited him to accompany them to Midleton Garda station, which he did, voluntarily.
Arising out of information provided by this person, the gardaí decided that it would be prudent to assemble armed reinforcements before revisiting the container. Having assembled an armed unit the gardaí returned to the vicinity of the container. They parked their vehicles some distance away in order not to alert their quarry. They were in the process of surrounding the field where the container stood when a number of armed men broke cover from a ditch approximately a quarter of a mile away from the container and outside the cordon which was being put in place.
This group fired shots at the gardaí and made their way to a nearby road where, at gunpoint they forced the occupants of a van and a car to get out of their vehicles. The presence of the civilians restricted the ability of the gardaí to return fire. An unarmed man who was handcuffed to one of the group was identified as Mr. John O'Grady. The group took over the car and, while driving away, fired at the gardaí, one of whom returned fire with a burst of 11 shots from a sub-machine gun, which broke the rear window of the escape car.
Some two miles from this scene, the getaway car was involved in a collision with another vehicle but did not stop. On reaching the Cork-Midleton road, the armed group abandoned their original getaway car in a lay-by and hijacked another. In this they succeeded in making good their escape from the immediate area.
The Garda authorities have explained to me that by reason of the fact that the Garda vehicles were deliberately parked some distance away from the scene of the initial encounter, the gardaí were not in a position to stop the getaway vehicle or to go in instant pursuit of it.
At approximately 6 p.m. on the same day, Monday, a group of at least three armed and masked men called at a house about three miles from Mallow. They departed one hour later taking the family car with them, having warned the family that the house was being watched and that the matter was not to be reported until the following morning. This car was found abandoned in Dundalk on the morning of Tuesday, 27 October.
On the question of resources I can say that I have been assured by the Acting Commissioner that the gardaí have available to them all the resources that they need to deal with this major criminal investigation.
What I have set out to the House are the principal facts of the case as reported to me by the Garda authorities. I do not think it would be appropriate for me to go any further than that at this stage. Questions arise from the account that I have given but these I believe are best left for another day. I have told the Acting Commissioner of An Garda Síochána that I wish to have a full report of all, I repeat all, aspects of the case in due course, including, of course, a full explanation of the circumstances in which this armed group of men managed to get away from an assembled force of gardaí.
But for the moment, as I said earlier, the priority is the safe release of Mr. O'Grady. I do not propose to ask the gardaí at this stage to engage in any postmortem activities which would distract Garda attention from the principal task which they have on hand — the safe release of Mr. O'Grady from his abductors.
I believe this is a reasonable and proper approach in the present circumstances.
I should like to ask the Minister if armed units from the Army are available on call to the Garda authorities when such an incident arises. What was the reason Army units were not called to assist the gardaí on this occasion? Will the Minister consider holding a public inquiry into this matter in due course to ascertain the reason for this debacle that has given rise to so much public concern and as to why John O'Grady, having been sighted and contacted there, should have been lost?
I should like to tell the Deputy it is the practice that Army units are available on request to the Garda. I understand that on this occasion the Garda made a request for an armed unit and that this request was fulfilled. I understand that the Army unit in question went, as it was requested, but that the gardaí were unable to wait for it, through no fault of the Army, and decided to move ahead with the operation before the Army unit were ready to help.
Will the Minister advise the House as to what extent, given the fact that it was a bank holiday weekend, the cutbacks on resources and in particular on overtime to the gardaí, hampered the operations of the gardaí? Is the Minister aware that the foot move on the container was not backed up by a second mobile force of gardaí? The pattern has emerged time and again of men slipping through the cordon of gardaí and at this stage surely the lesson has been learned that there is need for a second mobile unit in support. How can the Minister explain how the motor car was able to travel from the south of Ireland, across the country — through Dublin I believe — and on to Dundalk without any detection or interception and without any radio contact ahead to try to intercept it? That matter is of great concern to all.
I invite the Deputy to conclude his questioning because there are other Deputies whom I wish to bring in on this subject.
Will the Minister agree that the cutback in overtime may have been a contributing factor and must be seriously questioned?
The answer to the first part of the Deputy's supplementary is "no, definitely not". The answer to the second part of his question is that this is an operational matter for the Garda Síochána. It is they who make the decisions on such matters having regard to all the circumstances which they, and they alone, would be aware of at the time. With regard to the question about the gardaí being able to intercept the motor car that was stolen from Mallow between 6 p.m. and 7 p.m. on Monday evening before it got to Dundalk, the Deputy, and the House, will appreciate that the Garda were not aware that car had been stolen until 6 o'clock the following morning.
Will the Minister agree that post-mortems at this stage or comments about the operations of the Garda on Monday may have the effect of demoralising the gardaí who are endangering their lives by being involved in this criminal investigation? Will the Minister not agree that it would be better if in the House, and in the public media, examinations of what did or did not happen on Monday were left until Mr. O'Grady is safely back with his family?
I agree totally and wholeheartedly with Deputy Harney.
Will the Minister not agree that while we are all most anxious for the safe return of Mr. O'Grady there is a great deal of public concern that the effort being made to secure his release has, to say the least of it, been somewhat haphazard if one is to read between the lines about what went on at Ballyedmond near Midleton? The reason for tabling a question of this type is hopefully, to eliminate perhaps unjustifiable criticism of those who are supposed to be involved. Will the Minister tell the House whether the gardaí in Midleton were in touch with headquarters in Dublin before they embarked on this rescue operation? If so, did they receive any directions? Will the Minister tell the House why road blocks were not set up throughout surrounding areas before the gardaí moved in to prevent a possible getaway? Will the Minister say whether he was in touch with those responsible over the weekend? Will the Minister deny rumours that Garda overtime to man road blocks in a number of areas was stopped after 6 p.m. because of lack of funds? Those rumours are circulating.
Nobody should be more aware of rumours and the difficulty any Member on either side of the House has in trying to catch up with them than Deputy Barrett. Let me repeat that I am assured by the Assistant Commissioner that the Garda have all the resources, manpower and financial, they require to do the job of work that needs to be done in this instance. I am anxious to nail that malicious rumour to the mast and get it out of the way once and for all. With regard to the suggestion in the first part of the Deputy's supplementary question, that the efforts of the Garda were haphazard, I should like to state that the gardaí have an exceptionally difficult task to fulfil in this case. They have to be very careful how they proceed to deal with this having regard to the fact that the people they are looking for are a well known armed gang of criminals whose value on life is very questionable to say the least. The Garda can be, as Deputy Harney stated, unjustifiably criticised. We should not distract them in any way from the difficult task they have to accomplish in securing the release of John O'Grady and his safe return to his wife and children.
Will the Minister reply to the supplementaries I have put to him?
I have dealt with the allegation of haphazard efforts by the Garda and the only other question to be replied to is that in regard to road blocks. They are operational matters for the Garda Síochána and there is no question of any financial resources being taken from them that would have interfered with the road blocks. I should like to tell the Deputy that there was a problem in setting up road blocks to deal with this gang because if those road blocks did not have an armed presence we can rest assured that the lives of the gardaí in uniform who would not be armed would be seriously at risk.
That disposes of questions for today. I am not going to allow this matter to be debated any longer.
I put a number of supplementaries to the Minister but he has not answered them.
I have given the four Deputies involved plenty of latitude.
I asked the Minister if the gardaí in Midleton had been in touch with headquarters before they carried out this operation, a simple question.
I must point out to the Deputy that when I stand up he must sit down. If the Deputy wishes to put a brief supplementary he may do so.
I should like to remind the Chair, with the greatest of respect, that we live in a democracy and I am entitled to ask questions. I asked the Taoiseach for a special statement on this and I am entitled to put questions to the Minister.
I have given the Deputy a lot of latitude and I will not tolerate an attack on the Chair.
I am not attacking the Chair.
The Deputy is wasting the precious time of this House. Will he put his final supplementary?
I have already asked the question, I am waiting for an answer.
The Deputy is seeking to elicit information regarding a purely Garda operational matter and procedure. I understand that the Garda in Midleton were in touch with their headquarters in Union Quay, Cork, before anything happened because they requested the presence of armed gardaí in Midleton.
Were they in touch with headquarters in Dún Laoghaire?
The centre of operations——
Ordinary, Priority and Private Notice Questions have been disposed of.