asked the Minister for the Environment if any preliminary work has been undertaken in his Department with a view to altering the present constituency boundaries.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Constituency Boundaries.
19.
I refer the Deputy to my reply to Question No. 43 on 28 April last. The 1986 census figures on which a revision of constituencies would be based are not yet available for all areas. As indicated in reply to the previous question on this subject, the position in relation to constituencies will be examined when the figures are available.
Can the Minister tell us whether there has been any consultation or discussion between the Government and the Fine Gael Party with a view to altering the constituency boundaries? Can he also tell us whether there has been any discussion or consultation between the Government and Fine Gael with a view to introducing single European constituencies?
Do not tell him.
The Minister would be happy to confirm that no negotiations or consultations have taken place between me and any member or any party in this House concerning this matter and no discussions are taking place on alterations in the electoral system as has been suggested or intimated by the Deputy.
It is just as well considering last night's communications.
What happened last night, Deputy?
The Minister has not answered the question which was directly put to him by Deputy Gibbons which was whether any preliminary work has been undertaken in his Department in regard to proposals for altering the existing electoral constituencies.
No work other than what would amount to normal work has been undertaken in that section of the Department. Nothing specific has been authorised by me.
Is the Minister aware of the large number of his colleagues in the Fianna Fáil Party who have been discussing proposed alterations in the constituencies, alterations which are believed to have emanated from his quarters?
Deputies——
Perhaps Deputy Molloy would resume his seat having put his question so that we can observe the practice that only one Member shall be in possession at any one time.
The question of the redrawing of constituencies is always the subject of conversation in the corridors of Leinster House and it is particularly the subject of conversation when a constituencies review has to take place. That is the situation now.
Did the Government suffer defeat?
It was hoped that all the figures for county and county borough bulletins would have been available by this time but they are not, and the best shot that I can get from the statistics office is that it will be after Christmas, some time early in the New Year before they are. I am not sure. The publications of these census figures is not the responsibility of this Minister.
Would the Minister confirm that any legislation introducing alterations to the existing electoral boundaries would be based on the recommendations of an independent boundary commission?
The Minister cannot confirm one thing or another in that regard because the matter has not yet been considered and will not be considered until all the figures and bulletins are in. Anything other than that is idle bar chat.
How can the Minister insist that this matter has not yet been considered when we are well aware of the Government's action with regard to the commission which his predecessor had supposedly set up and the matter has been discussed and the previous commission have been——
This is leading to argument.
No.
Other Deputies are anxious to intervene.
Surely the Minister cannot inform the House truthfully that the question of an electoral commission has not been discussed at all by the Government.
I do not like the inference in that last remark by Deputy Molloy and I ask him to reconsider it. When I say that a matter has not been considered by Government and is not being discussed, at this time I mean it and I expect him to take it in the way it is said. The inference that something other than that is taking place is unworthy of the Deputy.
In case the Minister seeks to impute something to my question let me draw to his attention the fact that I had a question down in this House previously to him regarding an electoral commission and the answer is in the Official Report. He has considered this matter previously.
Deputy Gay Mitchell and Deputy John Boland are offering.
The matter may have been considered by the previous Government but we are not talking about the actions of the previous Government in this regard.
We are talking about the Minister's attempt to scuttle the work of the previous Minister in establishing an electoral commission.
Deputy Molloy is putting questions from a sitting position. That is completely out of order. I call Deputy Gay Mitchell. A brief question, Deputy Mitchell, and I will call Deputy Boland and pass on to another question.
Can the Minister say what preliminary work has been carried out in his Department and whether it includes examining the possibility of single seat Dáil constituencies?
As I say, nothing has been decided on this matter. The Constitution provides that it is for the Oireachtas to decide on the revision of constituencies, not for me or anybody else.
A Deputy
The idle bar chat is being carried out by all Deputies.
Is the Minister aware that the detailed figures necessary for this work to be carried out were due to be made available in July of this year? Can he indicate whether, as happened on previous occasions in advance of final publication of those detailed figures, the preliminary figures in relation to certain areas have been made available to his Department? If so, does he intend to continue to have the members of the ad hoc electoral commission, appointed by me, examining these figures with a view to recommending changes in constituency boundaries?
I understand that the former Minister invited some personages to participate in such a commission, but I understand also that no letters of appointment issued to them.
They were independent persons.
Be that as it may, the preliminary report for the 1986 census was published in September 1986 but the detailed figures one requires for the revision of constituencies are being published in a new format in the form of county and county borough bulletins. To date 20 such county bulletins have been published but those relating to the larger areas, Dublin, Cork and Galway, are not yet available. It would be a waste of time and administrative effort to do anything in this regard until the bulletins are there. When they are there it is incumbent on me and on the Government to do something about the revision of constituencies and, if necessary, following that examination to bring the matter here to the Dáil because it is a matter for the Oireachtas and the Oireachtas only — the Constitution provides that — to revise constituencies.
Question No. 20 please.
This is important.
If the Deputy can be very brief, but I have allowed a great deal of discretion on this question.
Is the Minister not aware that the electoral commissions who have operated in the past have been ad hoc commissions and that the persons invited to serve by me accepted following personal discussions between the individuals concerned and me? The issue of letters is immaterial to the appointment. If the Minister wishes to get out of having a commission or to carry out the review himself, or does not like the personages appointed, he should be man enough to say so.
This is leading to argument.
The earlier commissions had made available to them as they became available the details relating to certain counties so that they could have preliminary work carried out in advance of the final publication. The Minister has now admitted that 20 of the 26 Counties have that information available. Why has he not made that information available to the members of the commission who were appointed and who accepted?
The Minister does not wish to get into or out of this matter. He thinks it is entirely inappropriate to become involved in this kind of discussion before the figures are available to undertake what is required.
Those are two separate issues.
If the former Minister wished to nominate people or to have private conversations with people whom he would like to carry out work on his behalf on a commission, I cannot imagine what motive he had in so doing a year in advance of any figures at all being available. I am slightly suspicious of what he had in mind.
(Interruptions.)
At the appropriate time I will do the job.
Why does the Minister object to an electoral commission?
The Minister is not on record as objecting to an electoral commission, or the Minister doing it himself, or having a constitutional electoral change. The Minister is not saying what is to be done because the matter has not been considered.
(Interruptions.)
If you want to sneak out of it——
No more gerrymandering is allowed here.
There are others in the House more expert at that than Flynn is.