Vol. 376 No. 2
asked the Minister for Defence the total number of female personnel in the Defence Forces; if any target level has been set by the Government for the number of female personnel in the Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
13.
asked the Minister for Defence the reason females (details supplied) in County Galway were refused entry to the Defence Forces.
(Limerick West): I propose to take Questions Nos. 7 and 13 together.
The strength of the Permanent Defence Force is reviewed from time to time in the light of military requirements and does not differentiate between male and female personnel. Because of the non-combatant role of female personnel, the enlistment of recruits for general service has had to be confined to male personnel in recent times. On 31 October 1987, the latest date for which figures are available, there were 63 female personnel serving in the Permanent Defence Force.
In Question No. 13 which the Minister is answering in conjunction with Question No. 7, I asked for a reply in relation to two specific cases of females whose names and addresses were supplied to the Minister. Will he give me an answer in relation to those two cases? These two females suggest that other females were recruited in the time I mentioned in my question. Will the Minister tell the House whether a submission has been received by his Department from the Employment Equality Agency stating that the interpretation he has offered this House is discriminatory?
(Limerick West): It was decided that no females would be taken from the recent recruitment and therefore the question as to whether females were refused admission to the Army does not arise.
Has the Minister had a communication from the Employment Equality Agency?
(Limerick West): I was going to answer that question but the Deputy was looking for specific details.
Is the Minister satisfied that the two individuals whose names and addresses I have supplied were not treated, apart from being treated in a general discriminatory way which is what combat definition is, in a specific discriminatory way in relation to their cases?
(Limerick West): The decision not to take in females on this occasion was decided by the Government and myself as Minister so the question does not arise. That is not to say that females will not be recruited in the future. In reply to the Deputy's second supplementary question, of course I receive notices and letters from time to time from different agencies.
I asked if the Minister in his capacity as Minister for Defence has been acquainted with the opinion that the assumption by himself and the Government that women are not suitable for combat duty and that women can only be recruited for purposes other than combat duty was possibly in contravention of anti-discrimination, equality legislation. Was that opinion offered to the Minister and what was the reponse of his Department and of the Government?
(Limerick West): Yes, it was offered to me and the response is no.
You are breaking the law.
Can the Minister explain to the House the basis on which the Government on this occasion decided not to recruit additional female staff to the armed forces? Is the reason different from the one advanced to us by his colleague in Government on 10 June 1987 when it was explained that facilities were not available in the barracks to accommodate female members of the armed forces?
(Limerick West): That does not arise. There are females already in the armed forces and the necessary accommodation has been made available and is being made available. A decision was taken on this occasion that no female could be recruited. That may not necessarily be the situation in 1988.
On what basis was it decided on this occasion not to recruit females?
(Limerick West): Resources are limited and keeping in mind that adequate facilities must be made available——
What facilities is the Minister talking about?
This kind of questioning cannot go on indefinitely. I am taking a final supplementary from Deputies McCartan and Molloy and I am going on to the next question.
When will the Department make available the information promised by the Minister's colleague in June of this year with regard to the number of women included in the 8,300 people waiting for enlistment in the armed forces? That information was promised in June and it has not yet been received.
(Limerick West): If the Deputy puts down a specific question as to the number of female applicants on the waiting list, I will gladly answer it.
Let me be clear on this. This arose in June with Deputy Brady answering on behalf of the Minister on that occasion. He undertook to forward the information to me.
(Limerick West): I will have that information forwarded to the Deputy.
Does the Minister see a role for female soldiers? Will he give us a list of the type of duties which he believes female soldiers are competent to undertake? Will he answer the question in regard to the target level of recruitment of female soldiers being set by the Government?
(Limerick West): Of course there is a role for female soldiers in the Defence Forces. On 31 October 1987 the following female personnel were serving in the Army: captains 14; lieutenants 12; sergeants 2; corporals 14; privates 17; cadets 4, making a total of 63. A total of 24 female cadets were enlisted as follows: March 1984; September 1984; November 1983; November 1981; and November 1982. All of these were subsequently commissioned.
In view of the replies we got that women cannot be recruited because the restriction in regard to combat duty remains, and in the light of the reply given last June by the Minister's colleague, Deputy Brady, are women still prohibited from recruitment in the Air Corps and the Navy in so far as work in those is defined as being totally combat duty?
(Limerick West): Yes.
