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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 10 Feb 1988

Vol. 377 No. 7

Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Use of Helicopters.

4.

asked the Minister for Defence the cost per hour and per mile of journeys undertaken in an Air Corps Dauphin helicopter; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

7.

asked the Minister for Defence the actual overall cost of helicopter journeys made by Ministers; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

18.

asked the Minister for Defence the criteria used by him in deciding whether to make an Air Corps helicopter available for a trip by a Minister or Minister of State; the number of occasions since 10 March 1987 when a request for the use of a helicopter by a Minister or Minister of State was turned down; if he will give the cost, either in terms of average cost per trip, cost per mile, or flying hour of such helicopter trips; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

32.

asked the Minister for Defence if his attention has been drawn to the public disquiet concerning the overuse of Air Corps helicopters by the Taoiseach and other Ministers; if there has been a significant increase in the use of such helicopter journeys by the Taoiseach in the first nine months of this administration as compared with the corresponding nine-month period in 1986; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Limerick West): I propose to take Questions Nos. 4, 7, 18 and 32 together.

Aircraft flying is not costed per mile as distances are measured in terms of flying time. The Air Corps operate Alouette, Gazelle and Dauphin helicopters. The estimated cost for fuel per flying hour for these aircraft is £60.75, £49.95 and £72 respectively.

These helicopters were acquired primarily for search and rescue, security and air ambulance missions. When not required for such purposes Air Corps helicopters have been used for many years, irrespective of what party had been in power, to convey members of the Government and Ministers of State. The expediency of using motor transport and security aspects are taken into account in determining whether a helicopter should be made available on a particular occasion.

In the period 10 March to 31 December 1987 members of the Government and Ministers of State travelled in Air Corps helicopters on a total of 50 occasions. The number of such journeys for the corresponding period in 1986 was 42.

Costings for individual journeys are not readily available and a record is not kept of the occasions on which requests to provide a helicopter for a Minister have not been acceded to.

I am not aware that there is any public disquiet regarding this matter. As I indicated recently, the use of these helicopters for the transport of civilian personnel, including foreign VIPs, accounts for only 5 per cent of the total flying hours on the Dauphin helicopters.

Will the Minister agree that this issue is causing disquiet? I understand that the training schedule of pilots in the use of the helicopters at night has been upset because one of those helicopters has to be on standby for the Taoiseach. Will the Minister agree that that is one of the reasons our pilots have not been trained to fly those helicopters at night? I understand that a full crew is on standby for the Taoiseach. In view of the importance of those helicopters to the Air Corps is it right in these stringent economic times to have a crew on standby and helicopters grounded most of the time waiting for a call from the Taoiseach's office?

(Limerick West): I am glad to have the opportunity to refute positively what the Deputy has said. There is no helicopter on standby for the Taoiseach or for any Minister or Minister of State. The training operations on the new Dauphin are not being jeopardised, as the Deputy alleged. I must repeat that only 5 per cent of total flying time is dedicated to flying VIPs, including foreign dignatories.

I should like to ask the Minister to convey to the personnel of the Air Corps the appreciation of the House for the courageous and expert way they carry out their search and rescue missions and for the many lives they have saved. I am aware that on many occasions they put their own lives at risk to save those in trouble. It is an outstanding service. Will the Minister accept that there has been some disquiet in recent times about over use of helicopters by members of the Government? I accept that it is appropriate for the Minister for Defence to use a helicopter whenever he considers it necessary to avail of one but is the Minister aware of complaints by personnel working at Baldonnel — I read a letter allegedly written by a member of the staff — similar to those referred to by Deputy Connaughton? Will the Minister accept that in these times of financial stringency it is entirely inappropriate for members of the Government to be making excessive use of such expensive transport?

(Limerick West): I should like to thank the Deputy for his appreciation of the work of the Air Corps. His comments will be conveyed to the personnel concerned. I agree with the Deputy that certain matters should be taken into consideration before those helicopters are used, and that takes place. I must repeat that the helicopters are used only when necessary by Ministers and Ministers of State, as can be seen from the information given in my reply.

My concern is that one of these helicopters should not be available for VIP or ministerial use if required for sea rescue or air ambulance work. The Minister should clarify the position in regard to their use. One can never anticipate when it will be necessary to use a helicopter in a sea rescue. Will the Minister explain how it is that the helicopters have been used on more occasions to transport Ministers than on rescue operations in the period March 1987 to January 1988?

The questions are becoming very long and unwieldy and the Deputy is tending to make a speech. Questions should be brief and relevant.

Will the Minister explain how those helicopters can be available for Ministers when not required for other services? I understand that for a number of such journeys the helicopter was committed over a weekend.

The Deputy is going off on a tangent again. He should put brief and relevant questions. The Deputy has been going on too long, and he knows that.

The other point I should like to raise——

The Deputy cannot raise a point at Question Time.

I will put my question when I hear the Minister's reply.

(Limerick West): I must refute the allegation that a helicopter was tied up for a weekend or for any specific period. The Deputy is being mischievous in making such an allegation. The sea and land rescue operations of the helicopters are not being put in jeopardy.

It appears that the Minister's office stated in December that the night flying of the new helicopters would be available during the summer and that we would not have to wait until December for such operations. Will the Minister tell the House when night flying rescue operations using the Dauphin helicopters will take place?

(Limerick West): It is expected that those helicopters will be fully operational this summer.

That represents an advance on the previous undertaking.

I should like to ask the Minister to convey to those personnel my appreciation of the service they provide for the State. Will the Minister confirm my understanding of the operation of those helicopters, that at no time will a helicopter be used for ministerial transport if a helicopter is not available for emergency services?

(Limerick West): That is correct.

Is it true that the pilots of these new helicopters have not completed their training for night flying and that that is likely to take up to another year? Is it true that the reason is the necessity, as perceived by the Taoiseach, to have a ground crew waiting at all times, particularly at weekends, for one particular helicopter and that this is seriously upsetting the training schedule for the pilots? Will the Minister prove or disprove that theory?

(Limerick West): I am surprised that the Deputy is being so mischievous. I have already stated that there is no helicopter on standby for the Taoiseach or any other Minister. I would ask the Deputy and the general public to accept that.

There are a lot of people who do not accept it.

(Limerick West): Please accept the facts as they are. The Deputy might bear with me until we reach another question on the Order Paper dealing with night flying.

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