Deputy Jim Kemmy gave notice of his intention to raise on the Adjournment the subject matter of damage and vandalism to local authority houses in Limerick city. The matter is in order. The Deputy has some 20 minutes to present his case and the Minister some ten minutes to reply.
Adjournment Debate. - Limerick Housing Vandalism.
I am grateful to you for giving me the time tonight to raise this matter which is of serious moment not only to the people of Limerick but also to the country at large. I am also grateful to the Minister for Justice for coming into the House at this rather late hour to respond to my statements and I am rather fortunate that the Minister comes from the adjoining constituency, knows the area quite well and should be able to give me a fairly good response to my statement. I would not have asked to be allowed to raise this matter in the House if I did not think it was an urgent matter requiring the attention not only of the House but of the Minister and Government.
It concerns first of all a local authority shopping complex at Hyde Road, Prospect, Limerick city. The flats and dwellings are owned by the corporation, so we are talking about public housing. There are flats over these shops which were built about 40 years ago. These flats were due for renovation in the next few months. The Minister or the Environment, Deputy Flynn, has set aside some £200,000 for the renovation of these flats. Therefore it is a great waste of public money that this damage should now be taking place. Four flats have been vacated in the last few weeks and one flat was vacated last Tuesday week. It was necessary for everybody living in the flats to vacate them before the renovation and refurbishing work could take place. Within days, and in some cases within hours, of the flats being vacated they were gutted, demolished and destroyed. Cylinders, boilers, lead, timber, even the concrete blocks which the corporation workers use to seal up the doorways and windows, were stolen. The entire flats have been gutted. About £60,000 worth of property has been destroyed in the last few weeks, and numerous fires have taken place in the period. When the firemen came to put out the fires they were stoned from the windows of the flats. The firemen returned later on with a Garda escort, managed to put out the fire, and then withdrew under police protection again.
Unfortunately, the same degree of protection is not being given to the residents of this area and the people living in the adjoining houses are suffering great distress because of the activities of these young vandals. The residents have complained to the Garda on many occasions but the Garda have failed to stop the trespass and destruction. The residents in that area believe that the Garda are unwilling or unable to put an end to this illegal activity and to the wanton waste and squandering of public money. Anybody passing these flats in the last two weeks can see young people pulling the flats asunder, hopping in and out through the windows and doors of the flats like acrobats and starting fires with impunity.
The Hyde Road flat complex is not isolated. It is close to the centre of the city, about half a mile away from the new Garda Station at Roxboro Road which the Minister opened recently. They are about the same distance from the old Edward Street Garda Station which has been scaled down but is still functioning to some degree. They are also about half a mile from Sarsfield Army Barracks in Limerick centre. So there is no shortage of gardaí, soldiers or Army officers. Every day as I pass through the city of Limerick I see Garda and Army personnel moving money from business communities to banks and guarding their property. Every day I see armoured cars, paddy wagons and squad cars lined up in the streets with Garda and Army personnel in Limerick's streets, quite close to the area I am talking about. So there is no shortage of gardaí to protect private property and private money. The same degree of protection is not being given to public property and to the people who live in that property.
Let me move now to the north side of the city to the housing estate of Ballynanty, again about 40 years old and built by a Limerick Corporation direct labour scheme, consisting of good housing accommodation. Again we move to the flats there. In the last two years more than £200,000 worth of damage has been done in these flats. That is £200,000 of public money. This destruction, damage and vandalism has been carried out in this area less than half a mile from Mayorstone Garda Station.
I find it incredible that this vandalism can occur almost in the shadow of a Garda station and nothing is being done about it. Limerick Corporation have endeavoured to stop the vandalism. In the case of the Ballynanty flats not only did they use concrete blocks to board up the flats when they could not get tenants to occupy them but they used steel shutters and bolts to bolt those shutters to the windows and doors of the flats. The vandals came and not only did they gut the flats and remove the cylinders, boilers, lead and joists but removed the rafters from the roofs and the roof titles and took off the bolts and steel shutters in broad daylight with people passing, including the Garda. Over a two year period £200,000 worth of damage has been done there.
I have received deputations from both areas of Ballynanty and Hyde Road. The flats in Ballynanty are indeed in a very sorry state, without roofs, without rafters, the whole building pulled asunder and roof tiles stripped off and taken away. In the case of Ballynanty, the police made an effort, even if only a token one. On one occasion they apprehended some of the young people responsible for the damage and brought them to court. However, that did not stop the vandalism, although it brought a slight improvement. Even at present, the flats are being gutted. The vandals have moved from the first to the second block and then to the third. They have gutted it as well and good people have been driven out.
The sad thing about all this is that money has been squandered because of vandalism. A sum of £250,000 — a sizeable amount out of any budget — has been used to refurbish, improve and renovate houses which are even older than the dwellings I am speaking about, which are only 40 years old. Houses were built in 1935 in St. Mary's Park — the Minister knows the area about which I am speaking — and about £200,000 is being spent there to update those houses by putting in bathrooms and making them more attractive. On that side of the city such money approved by this House is being spent to uplift the standard of the houses while in another part of Limerick vandalism is causing terrible damage. It does not make sense at a time of stringency and scarcity of public money. I do not understand such a policy.
Limerick Corporation this year are building only three dwellings, when three years ago they were building 350 houses. I am not making any outlandish statements here; these are figures that I will stand over. In fact, I may be understating the case. The Minister is well aware of some of these problems in Limerick city. I approached him on the subject of the intimidation of Limerick Corporation workers by people who own wandering horses. I stand over the right of the corporation to take action to remove the scourge of wandering horses. The Minister promised all the assistance necessary and that he would instruct the Gardaí to act. The city has now, by and large, been rid of that scourge. That was done through the support of the Minister, as a result of my visit to him and I am very grateful to him for that.
I have received deputations from the residents of the areas I have mentioned and I would be lacking in my duty as a public representative from Limerick East if I did not make the statements I have made tonight. I have tried other ways of dealing with the problem, having raised the matter with the housing committee of Limerick Corporation on last Tuesday week, 7 June. As I was speaking in the Council Chamber, another family were being forced to leave a complex at Hyde Road because of the fires and the vandalism. Last Monday I was at a meeting in the City Hall which was adjourned because of the death of a father of one of the councillors. A deputation of 15 residents came to that meeting to make their voices heard. They are living in terrible conditions in Hyde Road, Prospect.
I know that there are many calls on the Minister but this would be a small bill. It would be politics of despair if we, the public representatives, turned our backs on public property that could be used to accommodate people on the housing list and allowed young people to bulldoze them apart. I have positive ideological views about public property. I ask the Minister to let the Garda give the same amount of protection to public property as is given to private property, to keep whatever housing stock is available in Limerick from being pulled apart. The people have got so sick of the property being damaged that they are asking the corporation to completely demolish them, but this would really be the politics of despair. We should not be overawed by people who cause such damage and destruction. We must ensure that they are not encouraged to continue that vandalism. It is very sad that in a relatively small city like Limerick such destruction should happen.
I have been critical of the Garda for not giving the same attention to public property as to private — they also have their problems — but the Minister should issue a directive for the protection of this property. If the Garda are detailed to stand guard over that property the destruction will not continue. I do not accept, as is the case made to the residents, that the Garda would find it hard to apprehend these vandals because there are too many escape routes. That is a useless answer. We must protect those who live in our inner cities, the decent people who are living an ordinary life and doing a normal day's work. I ask the Minister to use his good and high office of Minister for Justice to assist in the protection of property and to end the destruction taking place in Hyde Road, Prospect and Ballynanty Flats.
First, let me say I welcome the opportunity given to me this evening, late as it is, by Deputy Kemmy to deal with what obviously he regards as a very important problem, a problem we certainly would be prepared to do our best to help with. The Garda authorities have informed me that there have been problems with vandalism to vacant local authority flats in two areas of Limerick, the two areas mentioned of Ballynanty and Hyde Road, Prospect.
I understand that the problem in Ballynanty has received every attention from the Garda and in this respect, so far this year four persons have been convicted of breaches of the Vagrancy Act and the Larceny Act, arising out of incidents in the area and a further prosecution is pending. The Garda have had a number of meetings with Limerick Corporation and, as a result, sturdy metal fences have been erected by the corporation as a means of securing the flats concerned against intrusion, but I do bear in mind what has been said by Deputy Kemmy on this.
It is no good.
The Garda tell me they are satisfied that the erection of these fences and the convictions — which are the important matter — to which I referred have helped to curb the problem. I have been assured, however, that continued Garda attention by way of foot and mobile patrols will be given to the area to ensure that the problem is kept under control.
I understand also that the problem of vandalism in a flat complex in Hyde Road area has emerged in recent months. The Garda attribute the problem to the increasing number of flats being allowed to remain vacant and to the fact that these are being left inadequately and insecurely boarded up. The Garda have had ongoing discussions with Limerick Corporation and a further meeting to discuss this matter has been arranged with local authority personnel for 22 June. In the meantime, the Garda have been paying attention to the area and they will continue to do all that they can to minimise the distress and inconvenience which I genuinely accept from Deputy Kemmy are being caused to local residents.
I genuinely sympathise with the local residents. These acts of vandalism, coupled with other acts of a less serious nature such as broken windows and graffiti, create a feeling of impoverishment of their environment and are inevitably a cause of frustration and annoyance to them. I assure these communities and the House that the Garda will do all they can, be way of additional patrolling and by actively advising the local authority on preventive measures, to curb the problem. If, as Deputy Kemmy said, the measures agreed on the date between the Garda and the local authorities are not as effective as I have been led to believe, we will tackle the problem immediately. I would appreciate Deputy Kemmy's help in this area and I am sure it will be forthcoming.
It is impossible for the Garda to provide round the clock, seven days a week, 52 weeks of the year, protection on vacant property in an effort to prevent vandalism of this nature. While they can be relied on, naturally, to do what they can to tackle the problem, the owners and occupiers of the premises can do most to eradicate the menace of vandalism in the communities. The local authorities concerned can make a real contribution in this regard. Perhaps they will take a fresh look at the policies pursued by them to provide protection for vacant premises and, in conjunction with the Garda, improve the measures which have not been as effective as they were meant to be. We will also play our part, but the onus is on them to take whatever steps are necessary in the first instance to come to terms with what is happening in some areas. Unfortunately, a significant portion of the problem of vandalism is attributable to the activities of young persons and parents have a special role to play by instilling in their children a greater respect for property and by exercising greater supervision over them. Institutions such as schools, youth organisations and residents' associations must also take responsibility and be ready to co-operate. Agencies concerned with housing and planning also have a contribution to make and many of these organisations have been providing real and positive action in this regard. With greater intensification of effort all round a big impact can be made on reducing the incidence of vandalism and general delinquency and in influencing persons — in particular our youth — away from criminal tendencies.
I know of the meeting of the city council which took place on 8 June and I understand the comments and criticisms made. It would be unfair to comment on some of the allegations made. Deputy Kemmy genuinely and seriously publicised matters of great concern to certain communities in Limerick and it is my intention to ensure that these comments will be brought to the attention of the chief superintendent of the Garda Síochána in the area. I will ask that the type of meetings which have been taking place to date with corporation officials will be looked at by the chief superintendent. I ask Deputy Kemmy to suggest to our mutual good friend, the Mayor of Limerick, Alderman Lidden, for whom I have great respect and regard, and the city manager, Mr. Higgins, that they should become involved and bring the matter to the highest possible level. Our best efforts will surely bear fruit.
I say solemnly to Deputy Kemmy that if there is any question of intimidation of workers of Limerick Corporation in fulfilling their lawful duties and functions, I will be glad to speak to the Garda chief superintendent because we will not tolerate behaviour of that kind. We could not regard ourselves as a democracy if we allowed little bully boys or other groups to prevent people from going about their duties, especially when they are trying to preserve housing stock and to protect public investment.
I will be as helpful as I possibly can and I appreciate that Deputy Kemmy has availed of this opportunity to bring the matter to my attention. I thank him for the even way he presented his case and I am sure he will accept that I will do all I can to ensure that the citizens of Limerick have the type of community life to which they are richly and justly entitled.
The Dáil adjourned at 11.25 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 16 June 1988.