Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 16 Jun 1988

Vol. 382 No. 3

Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Redundancy Applications.

5.

asked the Minister for Education the number of teachers and schools, primary and post-primary, which have been notified of the granting of redundancy applications to them individually and in the case of schools, to the schools.

8.

asked the Minister for Education the appeal mechanism which is available to teachers who are refused voluntary redundancy by her Department.

34.

asked the Minister for Education the criteria which are used by her Department in deciding whether to grant redundancy to primary and post-primary teachers who have applied for same.

47.

asked the Minister for Education the number of redundancies which have been offered to the following: (a) the primary sector; (b) the vocational sector, in each vocational education committee area; (c) the community and comprehensive sector; and (d) the total number for the secondary sector; the criteria by which she has approved applications for redundancies; and if she has had any consultation with the Parents' Council and/or Board of Management in such cases.

I intend to take Questions Nos. 5, 8, 34 and 47. I would like to point out that Question No. 47 is a priority question.

Question No. 47 is my priority question.

It is not unusual to take a priority question with ordinary questions. It has been quite a common practice in this House.

I would like to indicate my dissatisfaction with the arrangement.

You will have the opportunity of putting some supplementaries now.

The voluntary redundancy schemes for teachers in primary, secondary, community, comprehensive and vocational schools will apply only to the extent that the number of teaching posts in excess of quota/normal allocation in 1988-89 cannot be eliminated by other means such as natural wastage, redeployment, career breaks. In the post-primary sector, voluntary redundancy can be allowed only on the basis that the teacher concerned will be replaced through a redeployment arrangement if the school or VEC is within quota/normal allocation, and will not be replaced if the school or VEC is above quota/normal allocation.

In deciding which teachers are to be offered the redundancy terms my Department will have regard primarily to age considerations in the selection of national teachers, taking account of the numbers available for redeployment within each panel area. For the other categories of teachers, my Department are taking account of the educational needs of the school, based on the recommendation of the school management, the circumstances of particular teachers and the overall cost.

All the relevant circumstances will be taken into consideration before definitive offers of redundancy are made. In view of the numbers involved it would not be practicable to institute an appeals mechanism for teachers who are not offered voluntary redundancy.

My Question No. 47 — I have no objection to the Minister communicating this to the Library later — requires a quantified answer. It specifically asked the number of redundancies which would be offered in each sector and asked her to break this down in a very specific way. I am happy if she does not want to give this information this afternoon, but I want this information supplied. My question sought it. My question concluded by asking if any consultation with the parents' councils, boards of management or others had preceded the establishment of the criteria by which she proposes to offer redundancies to those approved by her Department. I would like her to answer the question as I put it down.

As I said quite clearly, no definitive offers of redundancy have yet been made to any sector. Therefore, I cannot tell the Deputy what I have not already offered.

Will the Minister give me that information?

Yes, when it comes to hand. The Deputy asked if I or my Department had consultations with the parents' council about those to whom voluntary redundancy would be offered. I do not think it would be appropriate for me to reply to that. Thirdly, I said the view of the VEC and the school management in the post-primary sector would be sought in the normal quota allocation.

Let us take the primary sector where there has been agreement between the union members and the Minister. In the case of a small rural school — for example one in the constituency of the Minister of State and myself — a wall would have to be knocked down to restore the school to a one-teacher operation. Is it not appropriate to listen to the board of management as to the implications——

Yes, indeed.

That was the thrust of my question. Since the Minister has not made a definitive decision yet, she obviously cannot make definitive offers. I want the Minister's lack of definitiveness to cease before we go into the summer recess so that parents, boards of management and the schools will know where they will be in the autumn. Will the Minister give that guarantee, before we go into the summer recess, and indicate the precise information my question sought?

I do not know to which school the Deputy refers but we will make this a general question. The Deputy asked if the recommendations of a board of management would be conveyed to the Department. The Department have always been open to receiving recommendations and representations of such a nature. The Deputy asked if I could give a guarantee. I do not like giving guarantees because, dealing with the post-primary sector, the protracted talks on the proposals under the Programme for National Recovery only concluded last week and culminated in a vote. We will endeavour to ensure that primary and post-primary educational management boards and committees know their allocations as soon as possible, and that means those receiving voluntary redundancies will want to know also. We are speeding up that process.

Two of the questions in this group are in the name of my colleague Deputy Seán Barrett. Could the Minister be more specific about when she intends to make the first round of offers to the primary and post-primary teachers who have applied for voluntary redundancy? Will it be this week or next week? Secondly, could she clarify if there will be an appeal by teacher or school if an offer of voluntary redundancy is made. Thirdly, could she tell us the different steps that will be taken? An offer will be made, but will there be an appeal? What will happen if the teacher who put in for voluntary redundancy indicates he does not want it? Will the Department offer that redundancy to someone else in order to reach their numbers? These specific questions are worrying people who need to know the answers.

The whole operation is complex but the original principle I set down is the one that will decide the overall framework. No teacher can or will be offered a voluntary redundancy should it result in the teacher pupil allocation being disrupted. That will be the guiding principle. The Deputy asked if the offer will be made this week or next week. The primary sector will be dealt with first because the vote was taken back on 21 May and we hope to be in a position quite soon to offer voluntary redundancies in the primary sector.

When? How soon?

I would anticipate next week, but I would add this rider: it may take longer. I do not want somebody standing up in this House next week and saying I gave a guarantee. I am not giving a guarantee. I say I anticipate the offers will be made next week. As regards the teachers who have applied for voluntary redundancy and then decided they do not wish to take it up, quite an amount has been done in that regard. Many teachers have contacted the Department, some saying they are very interested and others saying they are not interested compared to the number we will be able to allocate. If we allocate a redundancy to a teacher who later decides he or she does not want it — as is their right — we will proceed to the next applicant and we will fill the quota.

That is another stage to be gone through.

There will be very little needed at that stage.

The Minister has not said if there is an appeal. I gather there is no appeal.

I gave that information in my original reply. In view of the numbers involved, it would not be practicable to institute an appeal mechanism.

There is no appeal.

That is for teachers who are not offered——

Might I suggest that the delay in implementing this procedure is causing chaos in the schools, primary and particularly post-primary?

The Minister did not abolish the VECs.

Would the Minister instruct the Department to work full time on this?

The Deputy abolished the VECs.

(Interruptions.)

On a point of order, Deputy Hussey decided to abolish the VECs——

That is not a point of order and raising points of order at Question Time is particularly unwelcome.

This delay has caused great difficulties for these schools and I am horrified to hear there is no appeal. That is not democratic.

The appeal the Deputy is seeking is for teachers who are not offered redundancy. Last October her party said there should be no voluntary redundancy but now she wants an appeals mechanism.

Proper democratic procedure.

(Interruptions.)

I must ask Deputy Liam Fitzgerald to refrain from interrupting.

I was provoked by Deputy Hussey.

Top
Share