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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 23 Jun 1988

Vol. 382 No. 7

Estimates, 1988. - Vote 43: Health (Revised Estimate).

I move:

That a sum not exceeding £1,109,944,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of December, 1988, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Minister for Health (including Oifig an Ard-Chláraitheora), and certain services administered by that Office, including grants to Health Boards, miscellaneous grants, and a grant-in-aid.

The gross non-capital provision in the Estimate amounts to £1,207.414 million. Allowing for Appropriations-in Aid at £138.5 million, the net non-capital grant provision is £1,068.914 million.

The net non-capital grant provision represents a decrease of £43.111 million on the corresponding out-turn for 1987 (£1,112.025 million). The decrease is due to additional appropriations-in-aid of over £8.6 million, (which have the effect of reducing the funding requirement from the Exchequer), a reduction of £12.6 million in the requirement for balances of grants due to health agencies, and the additional full year effect of economies achieved during 1987.

An increase of 3 per cent from July in the rates of allowances to disabled persons is provided for. The provision also takes account of the writing off of local loans, as well as the restoration of the community drugs schemes. There is no provision for the cost of pay increases arising under the 1987 pay agreement. This cost will be met from Vote 46 and will add approximately £20 million to the total available for health services.

The level of non-capital expenditure in 1987 which can be approved on the basis of the subhead provisions in the Estimate is £1,297.5 million in gross terms, or £1,190.5 million taking account of income which is received directly by the health agencies, such as payments for maintenance in private and semi-private accommodation in public hospitals, and the in-patient and out-patient charges introduced last year.

The gross estimated expenditure of £1,297.5 million represents a decrease of £22.5 million on the outturn for 1987. It comprises £800 million in respect of pay, £427.5 million in respect of non-pay (excluding cash allowances) and £70 million in respect of cash allowances. About 81 per cent of the gross expenditure will be met from Exchequer funds. The approximate breakdown of estimated gross expenditure of £1,297.5 million in 1988 between programmes is set out in Appendix I.

As can be seen from the data presented, the general hospital programme absorbs almost 49 per cent of the total non-capital budget. I will return later in my statement to developments in this particular programme.

In discussing the current provision for health services we need to be conscious of the rapid growth in health expenditure that occurred particularly over the last 15 years or so. In 1973-1974 net expenditure amounted to about £143 million, representing about 5.2 per cent of GNP. In the current year it will be of the order of £1,190.5 million, representing about 6.7 per cent of GNP. While this percentage is high, it has, in fact, declined from a peak of around 7.9 per cent in 1982.

The total health capital allocation for 1988 is £43 million. In the current difficult financial situation, this is a substantial allocation and it will be spent on the priority capital projects that are included in the capital programme in order to improve the infrastructure of the health services.

Construction or equipping work will be continued on all the major general hospital projects that are provided for, including St James's, the Mater, Cavan, Mullingar, Castlebar, Loughlinstown, Waterford Regional Hospital and Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital, Drogheda (a new maternity unit). Provision has also been made for major new schemes where construction has commenced in 1988, such as the Sligo General Hospital and the Wexford General Hospital (Phase 1). The planning of the new Tallaght hospital will be continued.

Equipping work will also commence at the Swinford Mental Handicap Centre and will continue at the new 100 bed replacement geriatric unit at the Sacred Heart Home, Carlow.

Funds will be made available in the current year to fit out and furnish the new city centre drug centre in Pearse Street Dublin.

Funds are also being made available in the current year to deal with high priority fire and structural precautions.

The income ceiling for payment of health contributions has been increased to £15,500 with effect from 6 April 1988. The income limit for a hospital services card was increased to £15,500 with effect from 1 June 1988.

On 31 March 1988, 38.08 per cent of the population were covered by medical cards. The figure for 31 March 1987 was 37.73 per cent.

The guidelines for medical cards were increased from 1 January last.

It is important to acknowledge the major contribution which the national lottery is making to the health services. Six million is being expended largely on services for disadvantaged persons, with a particular emphasis on community-based projects. The lottery is making a very important contribution to the following services in the current year:

services for the mentally and physically handicapped;

services for the elderly; psychiatric services;

community information and development services;

AIDS prevention programmes; and child care services.

I was particularly pleased with the Government's decision last January to establish a new structure for health promotion, a decision which experience has since shown was a very wise one. I had been concerned about the apparent emphasis on illness services and a corresponding lack of attention to the promotion of positive health and preventive strategies generally.

The new health promotion structure operates at three levels and is now in full operation. It comprises a health promotion unit in my Department, an advisory council on health promotion and a committee of Ministers.

The health promotion unit, in addition to taking on responsibility for the development of health education programmes, is also responsible for developing a wider policy of health promotion, acting in concert with the appropriate statutory and voluntary agencies in the health and other relevant sectors.

The unit has been active since its establishment and has already launched a number of significant campaigns both in its own right and in association with a number of voluntary agencies. These include: participation with the Irish Cancer Society in the "Europe Against Cancer Week"; the launch of a "Drugs Question — Local Answers", a community-based approach to combating alcohol and drug abuse; and the launch of a major food hygiene campaign, under the slogan "Clean watch", which succeeded in commanding wide support within the food trade and the relevant professional groups.

Recently the advisory council on health promotion made recommendations to me in relation to a number of other programmes related to alcohol, tobacco and nutrition and I am at present studying these.

I was particularly pleased to be able to report to Government that, among a number of positive results from the review of the drug agreement between my Department and the Federation of Irish Chemical Industries we reached a new agreement, to terminate in 1990, which will put a voluntary price freeze on drugs and medicines in operation up to the end of October, 1988 regardless of currency movements or increases in UK parent prices.

One particularly worrying development which impinges on the public health area is the spread of the AIDS virus. To date, there have been 49 cases of AIDS in Ireland. Nine have been haemophiliacs, one heterosexual, 18 have been homosexuals/bisexuals, 14 IV drug abusers, four homosexuals/IV drug abusers and three babies born to infected mothers.

The emerging pattern from these statistics taken in conjunction with the breakdown of the AIDS cases clearly demonstrates that the future pattern of AIDS in Ireland will be dominated by IV drug abuse. The most serious implication of this epidemiological finding is the risk of spread into the heterosexual community. There is in fact evidence to show that the virus is already spreading into the heterosexual community. As this pattern has emerged, the Government's AIDS strategy has been developed to meet the situation. Recently I answered a question in the House as to what the Government have been doing and will continue to do.

The continuing importance of cancer in all its forms as a major cause of illness and mortality is a fundamental concern. It is widely recognised that one of the most effective ways to monitor the presence of cancer within the community, gain a better understanding of its epidemiology and to devise appropriate preventive measures is by means of a national tumour register. I have therefore set up an expert committee to consider how a national tumour registry should be established and to determine the operational methodology and funding requirements. I expect the committee to report in September. I am also awaiting the report of a group on cervical screening so that we might look at the possibility of implementing a national cervical screening service.

The programme of developing health centres is continuing. Among the new centres completed in the past year are Skerries, Athlone, Shannonbridge and Carlow. New health centres are under construction while other centres are being upgraded and extended.

In addition, part of the recently vacated hospital at Baggot Street, Dublin was refurbished for use as a health centre. I expect that similar developments will take place at other locations. The development of health centres meets a clear need in our primary care service and it is my intention to push ahead with the health centre development programme as resources become available.

Since becoming Minister for Health, I have been increasingly concerned at the rise in the number of cases of alleged child abuse being reported to the health boards. In July last, my Department published a new set of guidelines which incorporate procedures for the identification, investigation and management of child abuse.

I fully accept that there is a need to increase the range of services available, particularly for sexually abused children and I have already allocated special funds to enable the services at Temple Street and Crumlin Children's Hospitals to be significantly expanded. There is, of course, a need also to improve services on a countrywide basis outside the Dublin area and I have, therefore, allocated special funds of £450,000 from the national lottery to different health boards outside of Dublin to enable them to improve their capacity for the assessment and investigation of alleged cases of child abuse including child sexual abuse.

The reorganisation of psychiatric services is continuing along the lines outlined in "Planning for the Future."

At the same time new facilities are being established in community settings. In 1987 alone, 50 hostels with some 300 places were opened throughout the country. Day hospitals are also being opened so that people can receive treatment locally and without admission to the psychiatric hospital.

There is a capital cost involved in setting up new facilities. However I am fully committed to our policy in this area. This is a once-off capital investment and the running costs of community services will be met by redeployment from hospital budgets.

The level of financing of mental handicap services has steadily increased as a percentage of overall health expenditure over the last number of years. In 1979, 7.6 per cent of health expenditure was allocated to mental handicap services while now roughly 11 per cent of health expenditure will be used to provide services for people with a mental handicap. I am glad to say that we were able to protect the mental handicap services during a period of financial constraint in the last two years.

Today I received the working party report on services for the elderly. While I have not had time to study it yet I would like to place on record my appreciation of the people who served on that committee. I look forward to reading it as I believe it will be a blueprint for the direction of those services in the future.

Advances in technology have had a huge impact on hospitals and this has in turn forced hospitals to critically evaluate their methods of operation. There is a greater methods of operation. There is a greater emphasis now than in the past on concentrating resources on out-patient and day facilities. I am greatly heartened to see that practically all hospitals are now adopting this approach with the result that far more patients than heretofore can be treated at a substantially reduced cost. Also, the developing technology and improved management of patients means that the length of time patients spend in hospital has been considerably reduced. I think it is very significant that, while practically all hospitals reduced their bed capacity in 1987, very many of them in fact treated more patients than in 1986.

These developments indicate that the actual bed complement of a hospital is not in itself the critical factor. Other factors such as diagnostic support facilities and improved patient management can be and are of great importance and these are the areas on which our attention should be focused rather than on bed numbers as such. All of these are positive initiatives which occurred in the past year and they are initiatives which I intend to foster and encourage in 1988.

The past year also saw many other positive developments including the opening of the new Beaumont Hospital and the other capital developments to which I've already referred.

One of the results of the acute hospital rationalisation has been the necessity for reorganisation of the accident and emergency service provided on a rota basis by major Dublin hospitals. I am aware that problems have arisen in relation to this service leading to dissatisfaction and concern regarding the continuing ability of the hospitals to discharge their various responsibilities in a satisfactory manner and have initiated a review of the services. I have recently suggested discussions to examine current organisation and delivery of these services. I will be setting up immediately a steering group which will have management and accident and emergency consultant representation from each of the hospitals concerned and it will operate under the chairmanship of the Hospital Programme Manager of the Eastern Health Board which has responsibility for co-ordination of these services.

December 1987 witnessed the enactment of legislation providing for a statutory scheme of control of clinical trials. This will permit the carrying out of legitimate and necessary testing of medicinal products while at the same time guaranteeing that the safety of participants is protected. I am currently drawing up guidelines for the purpose of implementing the provisions of the Act.

As the Deputies will know the Child Care Bill is before the House and we hope to see that progress through both Houses of the Oireachtas.

The new Tobacco Bill passed all Stages in the Dáil last night and will be in the Seanad in the coming weeks and following its passage through the House and becoming law there will be no delay in implementing the necessary regulations to give effect to it.

Reorganisation of health board services is one of my priorities in improving our health delivery system. The question of the abolition of the health boards is not on my agenda. I accept that changes need to be made in relation to the framework of health boards, the relationship between boards and management and the role of boards and improvements in the management of our delivery system. All these need to be addressed. At present we are looking at the structures of the health boards to see whether the formulation of programmes is the most appropriate way to deliver services or whether we should look at geographical areas in the future.

Since taking office I have expressed the need on several occasions to review the overall structuring and direction of health and social policy.

Our ultimate objective should be to determine specific developmental targets for the population as a whole and for groups which require particular attention and whose health status or quality of life requires improvement. Given that limited resources are available for expenditure on health services and that informed and rational choices must be made it is particularly timely to set down the direction, the principles and the emphasis which will underpin how we approach the question of health and deliver services to promote positive health. Equity, equality and efficiency considerations must be central to a planned approach to meeting health and health services needs.

Considerable preparatory work has already taken place. The major national Beaumont conference on my Department's discussion document "Health — The Wider Dimensions" was very successful and focused attention on the future direction of health policy and the factors which should determine how best to proceed. The removal of identified health inequalities in line with the Government's stated objective of protecting the vulnerable and less well off in our community will be a major factor underlining my approach to health policy and resource allocations. It will also be important in this context to have available the findings of the Commission on Health Funding which will concentrate on the central question of health services funding in the future.

The developments I have outlined today across the full range of health and social service programmes, provide clear and expressive evidence of the positive, planned and organised approach which is currently taking place in our health services. I have referred in some details to the developments that are taking place in health promotion in the hospital development programme, in the psychiatric services and in the community care programme. I have informed the House of the reorganisation, planning and funding initiatives which I have taken and which will inform the debate on the future direction, funding and management of services.

It is important that the short-term difficulties which arose because of the urgent necessity to take remedial action in all publicly funded services, including the health services in the public service, is placed in context. Notwithstanding these short-term difficulties we have preserved a quality service which is affordable, which can develop and expand on a firm and sound basis in future years.

In conclusion, I wish to emphasise that the concentration in the last 12 months or so in the health sector has been wrongly focused on the economic and financial constraints which have applied in the health services. While it is so obviously true that we have always had similar constraints in the past it needs to be reiterated to avoid a wrong perception that in some way unlimited resources are available to the health sector. It is a fact of life that the resources we would like to have available on health and social services will fall short of the demands for services which are generated. Ireland is not unique in such a situation. Indeed, most developed countries are similarly placed. Nevertheless it is important to record that our health services are sound, that the commitment of those involved is excellent and that a sense of purpose and direction is evident for the provision of quality services which meet the genuine needs of the population.

I am indebted to the House for giving silent approval to allowing the Minister an extra two or three minutes to conclude his contribution.

We noted that and I hope we are given the same flexibility.

We are stunned into silence by the Minister's gall.

With the limited amount of time at my disposal I had better start sprinting. I regret that in debating this Estimate, totalling almost £1.3 billion, we are confined to 15 minutes in making our contributions, given that we do not have many opportunities in this House to discuss health issues. First of all, let me say that my party and I believe that an improved and better health service can be provided within the present budget allocation, but in order to provide this we need proper policy and clear-cut thinking. I submit that there is neither at present. This Government came into office without a policy and I was saddened and amused by the——

He just turned the policy on its head.

Just give me time. I was saddened by the Minister's reference to short-term difficulties but I can tell him that those short-term difficulties have caused hardship and heartbreak throughout the country. I believe the Minister's speech was a smug, middle class assessment of the health services. It was totally separated from reality. I come from and represent a working class area and the people in that area are experiencing grave hardship and long waiting lists as a result of the catastrophe which has taken place in the health services during the past 12 months.

As I have said, the Minister's smug assessment is totally out of touch with reality because during the past 15 months we have seen a disorganised State savaging of our health services and a hamfisted attack on this important social service without any consultation with the professions involved in the services or the public who have been affected by these attacks. We have fewer hospitals, longer waiting lists, and hardship and heartache has been caused, and even fatalities, as a result of the Minister's unplanned approach to the health services. Despite the Minister's solemn promise to protect the sick, the old and the handicapped, I would argue that the sick, the old and the handicapped are now sicker and more handicapped because of the Minister's insensitive handling of the cuts in the health services.

As I have said previously in this House the Minister came into office promising a lot but unfortunately he has done the opposite to what he promised to do. He came into office using a lot of rhetoric and with no policy and the health services are now showing the evidence of this neglect. Having embarked on an unprecedented wave of savage cuts the Minister set up a commission to guide him along the right path. That commission have not as yet reported to the Minister and as a result the crisis deepens and the damage to our people increases.

I repeat once again that people have lost their lives because of the cutbacks. The medical profession are afraid to speak out through a fear of civil litigation but the lid is now slowly coming off the can of worms and I pay tribute to the two consultants in the Meath Hospital who had the courage to speak their minds on the effects of these savage cuts. Other members of the staff of the health boards have spoken out recently and I am aware that one of them was warned by his management team of what the repercussions would be in the event of any further comment or protest. This happened in the Southern Health Board region.

To this day the Minister has not got a plan for the health services. On the other hand, my party have brought forward within the last two weeks a rational plan for a better health service. We are proud to have been in the position to make this plan public. Our policy document, entitled "A Better Health Service", was published against the background of savage cuts, suffering and hardship, especially among the less well off in our society.

Health costs have continued to escalate and the Minister has done nothing to tackle the fundamental problems afflicting our health services at present. Since coming into office hospitals have closed down all over the country and I feel the Minister is washing his hands of the hard decisions which have to be taken and is delegating this responsibility to the health boards. Because of this, the Minister has allowed hospital closures to take place in an unco-ordinated manner leaving huge gaps in the provision of health services to the public.

The Minister said in this House recently that he foresaw no further hospital closures but I am saying that there will be further closures. For example, in the Southern Health Board area a major question mark hangs over Edenburn Hospital and I could outline numerous other examples. These closures will be brought about by the health boards because of the cutbacks in their allocations. This need not have happened if the Minister had come into office with a proper plan. The objectives of any Government should be (1) to provide a modern health service for the population with the best quality that is available; (2) provide accessibility to the health services on the basis of need; (3) provide the means by which to make the system effective, efficient and flexible ensuring that the best use is made of the limited resources available; (4) provide a proper allocation of resources to ensure that proper care is provided within the community or the home in so far as possible and in so doing ensuring that care is provided at the lowest level of complexity; (5) integration of the health services appropriately into an overall social policy; (6) to promote health education widely as part of a concerted campaign to prevent the development of unnecessary illness or disease and (7) provide proper health education programmes and preventive programmes.

With regard to the last point, in the context of the recent OECD report which states that life expectancy in this country is surprisingly low when compared to other European countries, I believe it is wrong that a Minister should preside over the closure of health education programmes and preventive programmes. For example, it is intolerable that at a time when more and more people are dying from cardiac problems a health board would terminate the operation of a health blood pressure clinic, which took place recently in the southern area of the country. Surely this must be the most retarded and short-sighted policy of any health administration to date.

The current system for delivering health services nationally is badly managed and cannot be perceived as providing an adequate service or value for money. The following points must be taken into consideration: there is a considerable waste of resources; there is far too much bureaucracy in a system which is over-administered and under-managed; the present system is not patient-orientated or responsive to clearly identified needs, particularly at local level; the system lacks adequate management controls and accountability; incentives, such as they are, within the system are not geared towards the provision of better value for money, and there is separation of responsibility from authority with no real authority at local level. The existing system cannot be adapted to overcome the present difficulties which do not permit the efficient management of a centrally funded service.

To meet the objectives outlined by me it will be necessary to initiate a fundamental restructuring which will allow the scarce resources available to be directed towards those people who are most in need. From my experience I know that the present health board system is over-bureaucratic, unwieldly, disjointed, unco-ordinated, uneconomical and inefficient. I am determined that the health board system will be replaced by a health delivery system which will be responsible for the delivery of the health services to the public, thus replacing the health boards. This would be a central authority but would have regional and district offices and have an input from public representatives and professional bodies at local and district levels.

Since the hospital programme consumes over £700 million of our total health board budget, the hospital services must be looked at in more detail. There is a clear need to formulate a national plan for the development of the hospital services which addresses this problem of inefficiency. Strong in-house management will be required in all our hospitals, working with a skilled and compact house management team. Each hospital in our health services must have a definite role and budget with systems to measure performance and eventual accountability. It is vital at this stage that the professionalism of our nursing staff, paramedical staff and medical staff is matched by managers who have a high level of skill and training. As I have already mentioned, each hospital must have a skilled hospital management board, representative of the categories of staff within the hospital and with an input from public representatives and other professional groups. Incentives must be created within our health system to achieve savings but at present there are few incentives in this area.

In his reply to a question put by me in relation to the VHI, the Minister stated that he is still considering the monopoly position of the VHI in the light of the changes which will be brought about in 1992. It appears that he may still seek a derogation for the VHI so that they can continue with their monopoly situation. I believe that this is anti-consumer and, as we have learned in many other areas, competition will bring down costs. While I acknowledge and pay tribute to the role of the VHI throughout the years in developing a private health insurance scheme I believe this success must not hinder or blinker us in our assessments for the future. As I already said, a new environment must be created with incentives geared to meet the objectives of providing subscribers with the best care at the minimum cost. Therefore, I wait with great interest the Minister's decision in relation to the monopoly situation of the VHI, especially in the light of possible changes in 1992. I believe we should make the changes ourselves rather than have changes imposed on us from abroad at a later stage. This country must have firm attitudes and policies well before that date.

In relation to community care, since taking up office the Minister has paid magnificent lip service to community care but in the meantime community care, which was relatively primitive in its development, has suffered further and is now in a crisis situation like many of the other sections of our health services. The current system of community care has failed and I believe that my party's policy document in relation to community care outlines what must be done in that area.

With regard to psychiatric services, the report of the chief inspector of mental hospitals contained frightening information in relation to the conditions of some of our psychiatric hospitals. Our Lady's Hospital in Cork was portrayed as a shabby, cold, dirty unit. The Minister's response to this and other reports on the psychiatric services was lip service once again. The Minister has instructed the board, who are submerged in a morass of debt, to improve the psychiatric services and to improve the lot of the patients, but not one penny has come from the Minister for this service. The chief inspector of mental hospitals has expressed concern about the rate of progress in transferring patients from psychiatric hospitals in to the community following his most recent inspections. In other words, the Minister's response to the frightening report on the psychiatric services by the inspector of mental hospitals was merely lip service. The Minister and the Department appear to have totally abandoned the implementation of the recommendations of the report of the psychiatric services entitled "Planning for the Future". The Southern Health Board's response, which was made to the Department in late 1986, was for a capital allocation of £6.457 million over a ten-year period, but not one penny has been given to them. This is a damning figure and is a damning indication of the response from the Department.

The Minister mentioned earlier that he will be introducing amending legislation in relation to advisory committees. In relation to the charges imposed by some health boards for E1.11 cards and hospital services cards, I ask the Minister if he would instruct the boards who have acted irregularly to refund the moneys to the people who have already paid for applications. I believe there is a moral obligation on us to ensure that these people get their money back.

One of the aspects of our health services which has caused me concern for many years, and which was recently highlighted in The Star, was the over-prescribing of drugs and, more specifically, tranquilisers. The Minister and the Department have a duty to make resources available to set up an organisation to help tranquiliser addicts and drug addicts in general. The Minister must set up, within his health promotion unit, an organisation who will provide counselling and rehabilitation for addicts. The Minister must also initiate an educational campaign to warn people of the dangers of these highly addictive drugs. Some of the roots of Ireland's tranquiliser problems lie with doctors who persist in over-prescribing these drugs. The position is that the more some doctors prescribe the more they earn. My party believe that a capitation scheme should be introduced within the GMS. The Minister and his Department have a responsibility to monitor more closely the performance of doctors and to take action where there is evidence of over-prescribing.

The Minister must protect the public from over-prescribing by his own profession and he should also introduce statutory controls to limit the amount of money spent on advertising by the multinational drug companies who produce these dangerous and addictive drugs. It is immoral that these companies can spend vast amounts of their budgets on advertising and promoting these drugs. The over-prescribing of drugs is a national scandal, not only on a health basis, but also on a financial basis and leads to a frightening amount of human misery. The drug Ativan was highlighted in one of these reports, and the indications are that this is a most dangerous and addictive drug. The Minister must consider having this drug either removed from the market or its dependency characteristics highlighted in a big way. The recent newspaper campaign only serves to confirm what I and many other politicians have learned from the people who come to our clinics, that is, that there is a serious over-dependency on drugs by many of our people, which has brought about a depth of suffering that we do not appear to realise. Tranquiliser abuse and dependency have long been the silent and unknown disease of our nation and we must not let them remain so. Addicts must not be abandoned by a system that has become at times too greedy.

In relation to the ongoing discussions with the Irish Medical Organisation on the GMS and common contract, would the Minister, even at this stage, tell us what is happening? The Irish Medical News and other publications have given us in-depth details of the negotiations between departmental officials and the IMO and it is grossly unfair that even now Members of this House and Opposition spokespersons are kept totally in the dark in relation to these negotiations. We are coming into the summer recess, when decisions will be made which will affect the workers of the health services in the years ahead. Agreements that will be binding not only on this Government but on future Governments will be made. There are major deficiencies in the GMS contract and the common contract on which I shall not elaborate too much. The Minister must get to grips with the many deficiencies in this area to ensure that many of the gaps in the contracts allowing inefficiencies and abuses are dealt with as a priority.

I agree with the previous comments. It is very unsatisfactory to be discussing Estimates for any Department halfway through the year in which the money provided has already been expended. We must find a more appropriate way of having debates of this kind. One would hope in future that debates on the Estimates could take place in advance of the spending of any money. It is regrettable that the committee that was at one stage promised on the health services has not yet been formed.

This is a time of great opportunity and great difficulty in the whole health area. As we are being asked to approve almost £1.3 billion for current expenditure on health, one would assume that that would be sufficient money to provide our young population with a decent health service. In many instances that huge sum of money is being spent inefficiently, ineffectively and, on many occasions, is squandered. The Minister and the Department have washed their hands of the matter on some occasions and said that expenditure is a matter for the health board, hospital, or whatever. Things are so bad in some areas that it is virtually impossible to get into hospital unless one can afford to pay.

There are at present 7,000 public patients waiting for hip and other joint replacement operations. In many places the waiting list stretches for over two and a half years. A senior cardiologist in Dublin recently complained that because of shortage of beds he could not get patients suffering from non-emergency heart conditions into hospital. He said that the result was that they had become emergencies and had died. There are about 400 patients on a waiting list for vital open heart surgery in the Mater Hospital. This waiting list, which has been down to 300, is expected to increase to 500 by the end of this year. There are about 250 children on a waiting list for open heart surgery in our Lady's Hospital in Crumlin, Dublin. Some have been brought to Dublin for operations from their homes in the country and sent back again because staffing in the hospital was insufficient to allow the carrying out of operations.

The only Irish centre for carrying out bone marrow transplants on seriously ill children, which was in Our Lady's Hospital in Crumlin, can now do only one operation a month because of lack of funds. The most ludicrous situation of all is in our dental services area. Imagine a Government extending eligibility to new categories while those already eligible cannot get any service. There are now 23,000 people on the orthodontic waiting list.

I had an opportunity recently to discover the awful conditions existing for many patients at the Coombe Hospital in Dublin. A constitutent had been given two different appointments to turn up for a hysterectomy operation but she was sent home again and I was approached to make representations on her behalf. I discovered the following horrific facts. Last year there were 48 beds in the surgical wing of the Coombe Hospital; 13 of these beds were for private or semi-private patients. There are now only 26 beds in that unit and still 13 private beds and only six public beds and seven day beds. The result is that recently up to 100 women who were due to go into the hospital for major surgery over the next number of months had to be told they certainly would not be taken before later this year, or possibly next year. These are appalling circumstances. We all know that for any woman to have to make the kind of psychological adjustment to having a hysterectomy operation is very difficult in itself. To have to make family arrangements because one is going into hospital and then discover on the date of the appointment that one cannot be taken is shocking.

Our health service has further discriminated against people who cannot afford their own private health care. It should be possible for every citizen, regardless of means, to have easy access to a caring health service. We should be able to deliver our health services in a more cost-effective and efficient way. We should be able with £1.3 billion to provide the kind of caring services that most of us in this House and in the country would aspire to.

The single greatest scandal in the health services is the extent to which queues and queue jumping dominate the system as a result of inequality of access, despite the provisions of the 1979 Health Act guaranteeing public hospital services for all. Another scandal is the number of people with limited means who are entitled, through PRSI or medical cards, to full facilities, who feel compelled to pay for the service on the double by buying voluntary health insurance to ensure access to a hospital.

Another scandal in this area is that the ordinary member of the VHI is forced to subscribe to help a minority of VHI members who benefit at the Blackrock Clinic and the Mater Private Hospital. The facilities available at these hospitals should be fully paid for by the subscribers to these schemes. I do not believe that other VHI subscribers should have to subsidise the luxury health care of the few.

The health service is a minefield of petty bureaucracy and waste, leading to abuses and frustration with consequent loss of morale among most health care workers. The major drawback of the present system of financing the health services is that hospitals do not receive any specific payments for treating individual public patients. Public hospitals are paid an annual grant by the Department of Health to cover their running costs for the year. Consultants working in these hospitals are paid an annual salary by the State. These moneys are allocated at the beginning of the year and bear no relation to the number of patients the hospital will treat during the year. Therefore, since no additional moneys are received for public patients treated in the hospital and each public patient treated represents unrecoverable additional costs, the temptation is for the hospital to treat as few public patients as possible and take on instead private patients who will pay money for the privilege and bring revenue to the hospital. This is unsatisfactory.

We need to move our health services towards a system where we pay hospitals for patients treated and do not pay them a fixed sum in advance, regardless of what kind of patients they take in. We need an independent mechanism for assessing the priority of patients to be treated by consultants. I do not believe that those people who can financially benefit as a result of treating patients should be the people who decide on what kind of priority basis patients are taken in for health care. This is far to important to be left to those who have a financial interest.

I want also to talk about the position of the VHI. Like Deputy Allen, I, too, am not in favour of monopolies, but unlike a private monopoly this is a semi-State body. This House and country have washed their hands of their responsibility to this semi-State body. I want to instance one fact to bear out what I am saying. Just over three years ago the VHI moved from their offices in Cook Street in Cork 150 yards away, from offices costing them £12,000 a year in rent, and purchased an office block costing over £1 million. They were not able to dispose of their leasehold interest in their Cook Street office and for a number of years — until recently — it remained vacant. I believe they had to pay somebody to take on the leasehold interest in the office they vacated. They also have spare capacity in their new offices in the South Mall and again they have had to give a financial incentive to people to take rented accommodation there. No company accountable to the State should behave in this way. It is bad management and unnecessary and the ordinary subscribers of the VHI have to pay for their bad decisions.

I was surprised to see that, even though this happened three years ago, when Deputy Wyse asked the Minister for Health a question about this matter on 31 May, he was told that the Department had no information, that they knew nothing about it and that he should consult the VHI. That is not good enough, indeed, it is a scandal. This company should be subject to the scrutiny of the State-sponsored bodies committee of this House to investigate their management decisions and the manner in which subscribers' money is being used by the VHI. At a time when the City General Hospital in Cork is not covered by the VHI, it is ironic that they engaged in the expenditure of this money in Cork.

In relation to the withholding tax issue and the consultants, it is a shame that the patients, the vulnerable, innocent people, are becoming the pawns in this political battle. It was irresponsible of the Minister for Finance to bring in these proposals without making regulations to enforce them. It is not good enough. I have a copy of a circular given to a patient recently when asked to pay a hospital bill. There are four points in the circular and it is clearly stated that it is the responsibility of the patient to pay the consultant. Patients should not be put in this position and the Minister should have brought in legislation to compel the VHI to disclose to the Revenue Commissioners the amount of fees paid to consultants and tax could be directly collected from the VHI. The private, very special relationship between a consultant and his or her patient should not be interfered with in this way.

I have a mixed reaction to the new scheme proposed in relation to general practitioners under the GMS. I can understand the necessity for trying to have a more cost effective scheme but I hope it will not result in certain public patients not being able to have access to a GP. I hope it will not mean that on Saturdays, Sundays or at night, certain people who cannot afford to pay a doctor to visit them will be deprived of a full and proper GP service. In fairness, the one area of the health service about which I never get a complaint is the GP service. People are happy with it — perhaps the Minister will say that they should be, as it is costing a lot of money — nonetheless it is the first port of call when dealing with the health services. It would not be right if only those who can afford to pay for a GP's private visit will be able to see him or her at weekends and evenings. If the new scheme leads to that kind of arrangement it would be appalling. If we move to a capitation scheme, we must be sure that there are strict conditions attached so that every citizen has easy access to a doctor when they need one.

At the end of the Minister's remarks, the Chair commented that the rest of the House did not object to him straying beyond his allotted 20 minutes. The reason was that we were probably stunned into silence by the sheer gall of the Minister, particularly in his concluding remarks. It is tantamount to an insult to anybody who has an interest in the health services for the Minister to state that it is clear that there is evidence of a positive, planned and organised approach currently taking place in our health services. He also said that he wished to emphasis that the concentration over the last 12 months or so in the health sector was wrongly focused on the economic and financial constraints which have applied in the health services.

The focus on economic constraints can hardly be surprising when the administration and the Minister were elected on a platform of protecting the health services and expanding them, and vilifying the previous Minister on hoardings the length and breadth of the country saying that there was a better way and how damaging the health cuts were. For them to have turned all that on its head instantly was obviously a cause of focus over the last 12 months or thereabout. Almost exactly 12 months ago, we debated the Health Estimate and at that time I made certain predictions about the implications of the financial allocations being made. I predicted that 3,700 staff would lose their jobs in the health services, that 300 psychiatric beds would close and that there would be no planned community alternative despite the rhetoric and the promises. I predicted that dental and ophthalmic services would be decimated, that the health transport services would virtually disappear, that further hospital closures would occur and that there would be bed closures in the hospitals that survived the Government's axe.

I predicted that community care facilities would face breaking point under the strain of the financial cutbacks imposed and that waiting lists for surgery would grow to such an extent that many elderly people would be dead before their turn for surgery. All these things were considered alarmist and it was stated that I was over-emphasising and dramatising the case. I was considered a nuisance and I was assured that no such disruption would occur. The sad reality is that everything I predicted has come to pass with a vengeance. My litany of gloom has turned out to be an under-statement of the sad reality that the Government and the Minister have visited on the poor. Since March 1987, Fianna Fáil have closed 15 hospitals with a total of 1,470 beds. In addition, several more hospitals face closure as health boards try to grapple with their totally inadequate budgets. this disaster is only a part of the full story. When we look at the beds that have been closed down within the existing hospitals, a truly horrific picture emerges. No fewer than 3,617 beds, at the last count, have closed over the past 12 months. No branch of the health services has been spared and, of course, as the beds have disappeared, so have the staff. However, people are still getting sick and accidents still happen. Not even the Minister and the Government can legislate that away.

The same number of sick people and the same number of casualty cases are facing fewer beds, fewer staff and fewer facilities. Impossible demands are placed on the remaining staff as they endeavour to cope with a worsening and festering situation. The closure of hospitals and beds is perhaps the most dramatic, chronic and most obvious result of this Government's butchery of the Health Estimates. However, the destruction of services to the old and the handicapped and the psychiatrically ill has probably caused more hurt and anguish than any other single act of this Government in the past 12 months. What is particularly galling is the sudden and unprecedented growth of private medicine in tandem with these cutbacks. Elderly people must wait two, three or, perhaps, four years for a hip replacement in our public hospitals while those with money can have immediate attention in private facilities. The dental and ophthalmic services have been reduced to emergency care only in many regions. I have been in touch with the dentists providing the service and they are at their wits end. They say they will provide emergency cover only for somebody who arrives in pain. If one wants orthodontic work or specialised care one can wait for six months, eight months or a year. That is the situation for all except those who have the money to pay for private care. They have immediate access to attention and to facilities.

In the past 12 months we have seen another scandal, a scandal alluded to by the Fine Gael spokesperson, that is the introduction by various health boards of charges for hospital and other services which people are legally entitled to and there is no legal grounds for the health board making such charges. When I pressed the Minister on this at the end of last year he hid behind a mish-mash of excuses and refused to issue a directive to the health boards to desist from implementing those charges. Initially my parliamentary question was ruled out of order in that the Minister had not responsibility for the health boards and what they did. Eventually I put down a question asking what legal authority the health boards were acting under and I got a rather evasive answer. Eventually the Minister admitted to this House that there was no legal authority for these charges. Until the last two weeks the Minister refused to issue a directive to the health boards to stop charging illegally for services that are the right entitlement of the people. I am still waiting for an announcement from the Minister that charges collected will be refunded to those who are foolish enough to pay them.

It has been a most depressing year for anybody concerned with decent health care, for the many individuals and caring organisations involved in the provision of health care. Many of them are on the verge of despair. Lest they and we lose heart and surrender our health care entirely to the economic technocrats currently calling the shots I will outline some of the modest successes against the tide of reaction. The Minister has sought to rectify the position vis-à-vis the charges. I cite the success of the Opposition Deputies in this House in rescuing the National Social Services Board from the axe wielded by this Minister and this administration. Thankfully that choice of independent information and criticism has been saved. Unfortunately the Health Education Bureau could not be saved.

Because the Minister decided to axe it and unfortunately we have limited Private Members' Time in this House. Given the choice, I would have had a motion on that too. We could not manage to save that from the Minister's axe and the Minister has planted in its place the health promotion unit in the Department where the Minister has total control and and there can be limited independent criticism of the Minister's cutting tactics. Success also occurred in the refund of drugs scheme. When I raised that first, I was accused of being a nuisance and told that I had got my facts wrong. It emerged quickly after that, that I was all too right again. Thankfully, by concerted action of the caring organisations, that decision was rescinded and the money was restored when the budget was placed before this House in February. We must keep heart and maintain our resistance to the sort of society which Fianna Fáil want to create.

We cannot, with deference to the Minister, place the entire blame on Fianna Fáil. Fine Gael and the Progressive Democrats have aided and abetted this Government from the beginning. Last year at this time I listened to the Fine Gael spokesperson for health act "Ramboesque" and declare on Friday, grabbing the headlines, that Fine Gael would oppose the Estimate. By Tuesday, once the numbers had been counted and it was seen that all Deputies would be present that macho effort had been retracted and Fine Gael did not oppose that Estimate at that time. This week, on a different issue, Deputy Seán Barrett admitted that he and Fine Gael had been conned by this Government over the last number of months. Fine Gael will have the opportunity again next Wednesday to show whether they are concerned with preserving health services or whether they are again indulging in verbal battles but not tackling the real issues. The Progressive Democrats who wallow in the title of the "architects of economic rectitude" can be longer appear to oppose the consequences of the cuts as they happen, but support the global Estimates. Deputy Harney in her contribution today, gave us a litany about queues and hurts and her contribution can only be described as humbug if there is not the determination to do something by restoring proper funding in the Estimate.

Next year, from what we have been led to believe by the Minister and the Taoiseach, we can expect further misery and pain as another £400 million is sliced off public expenditure for 1989. The Government can choose to continue to ignore my statements concerning our health services. The Minister can dismiss me as a political aggravator and take no action in regard to my demands, but he cannot ignore the growing clamour from those in the front line. The Meath Hospital, whose case I raised last week on the Adjournment, is not an isolated case. Doctors and nurses, ambulance men and health officials are privately in touch with me and with other Members of this House to confirm the intolerable constraints under which they are expected to function. Professional ethics has heretofore precluded them from public comment but as the situation worsens day by day, they cannot continue to be silent and will more and more come out courageously in defence of their patients, like Dr. Manson and Dr. Black.

The Deputy has one minute left.

I will conclude with the words of the senior registrar of the Meath Hospital. Dr. Manson said that it is the unfortunate position that people could die. He said the problems had increased in the past few months, that they had kept on working under those conditions because they were under the mistaken impression that somebody in the Government would see what was happening and do something about it, but that nothing is being done. He added that there was a lack of realisation as to what the health cuts mean in the hospitals. He said that they were not being allowed to treat their patients properly. The Labour Party will oppose this Estimate again this year. We will oppose this Government's excuse for a health policy and we invite the non-Fianna Fáil majority in this House to finally take a stand on this most fundamental of issues.

I thank you for the opportunity to speak in this debate. Deputy Allen has dealt with the broad issues in the context of the newly published Fine Gael approach to the reorgansation of the health services so I intend to confine myself to raising matters which concern me particularly in the way in which the health services have developed over the past year. The question of waiting lists — to which the Minister referred in his contribution and it has also been referred to by the previous speakers — for admission to hospitals and the problems in the accident and emergency and out-patients services are inter-connected. It is extremely important that the Minister should use the summer period to improve the position because the delays which people are experiencing are totally unacceptable and also because of the virtual impossibility for a public patient to have elective surgery done. The only way you can be assured of an operation is if you are an emergency case and then you are not sure about the outcome. This is not alarmist, it is a reality and it is something that has presented itself more acutely in the past year because of the number of bed closures.

There are a number of things that can be done in relation to that. From speaking to management in one of the major hospitals in the north side of Dublin, it is clear that the resources which are there are not adequately used. Beds in speciality units are perhaps not fully utilised and hospitals, to an extent, are little independent kingdoms. Decisions are made on the basis of the random interplay of political power between consultants at any particular time.

As legislators we are responsible for the establishment of a proper system of administration and have a responsibility to ensure that that situation does not continue. I know the Minister is looking at this and I presume this is the reason he has hesitated for so long in relation to Beaumont Hospital in finalising the structures. Even with the existing resources a great deal more can be done. I hope the Minister is engaging in a major review of the impact of the total number of bed places lost. With improved management the problems that are emerging at present in relation to people who need treatment can be dealt with.

It is important to have a management structure properly established for hospitals. I saw in The Medical Times today that the South Eastern Health Board are proposing a management structure of their own. The Minister will be aware that Fine Gael's policy emphasises the need to take the hospitals under central control, to establish modern management systems and to take the power out of the hands of persons who, as Deputy Harney said, have a direct financial interest in the throughout of patients and give it to managers who have a responsibility to the State for ensuring that the best possible use is made, on behalf of public and private patients, of the limited resources available. This is a nettle that must be grasped and if the Minister does something about it he will have our support.

Another problem which I have raised on a number of occasions relates to national specialities such as the bone marrow transplant unit — which was referred to by Deputy Harney — the paediatric heart transplant unit and the national transplant and heart surgery service. The budgets for these specialities are decided at local level and are dependent on the interplay of politics. Despite the Minister's best intentions, it is clear that he can issue budgets and guidelines but at the end of the day he cannot control what is happening at this level without changing the way we organise the hospital services.

Fine Gael, in their recent policy document, have presented a way of organising our hospitals which would lead to greater efficiency and greater accountability. It is important that the Minister would indicate what has happened as a result of his review of waiting lists for these speciality services. He mentioned earlier in the year his concern in relation to the delays for hip and joint replacements for the elderly. Has the Minister arrived at a solution to ensure that specialities are given adequate resources, with hospitals at regional level distributing their own budgets on the basis of competing needs which include providing a general hospital service as well as the speciality service? The Minister will have to look at unit budgeting where a specific budget would be allocated to ensure that at least a minimum level of service is provided. The situation is critical at present.

I wrote to the Minister last week — and I am still awaiting a reply — in relation to a consultant who contacted me to see if there was anything I could do about a young child — who is one of my constituents — whom he assessed would have only months to live without a bone marrow transplant operation. In that context the Minister replied to me on the Adjournment and said that the service was continuing. The service is continuing but at a level that is a non-service. That was the month of April and only one operation was carried out that month; one a month would be the absolute minimum to retain any comparison with previous services. One operation in that period — I do not have the figures for what has happened since — is not a service at all. It is effectively a closing down of that service. It was developed because of the commitment of many people. The Minister has indicated that it is not his intention to close it down but he will have to ensure that his intentions are honoured. If the structures are not there they should be established and identified, through proper unit budgeting for the specialities to ensure the services necessary to maintain a reasonable throughout of patients other than by way of acute emergency.

The Minister is in the process of introducing very important legislation in relation to child care. He has indicated in his speech that he hopes to be able to allocate extra resources in that area. Deputy Allen indicated how important it was to have more resources and that is self-evident. If the Child Care Bill is to have any impact there must be resources and not just in the emergency services but particularly in the area of prevention and in the provision of back-up services for families. An area which the Minister failed to deal with, and there is no indication of intent in his speech to give it priority, is the way in which we administer our child care services. The current structures are totally inadequate to give due weight to the development of a proper service for children to protect and to support them in their communities and to prevent family breakdown. The child care services are tagged on at the end of a health service where, even in budgetary terms, their share of the cake is very small. The structure as it stands does not encourage or assist the development of a proper child care service. Perhaps the Minister would look at the Fine Gael proposal which involves a total reorganisation of the health services by taking the general hospitals into a central control unit under An Bord Sláinte and the establishment of regional management for community services with a project head, particularly for the child care area. We may have to fight in due time for resources but without a proper structure there can be no substantial improvement. I hope the Minister will give some thought to those points during the recess and that he will be able to announce encouraging news in the autumn.

I am impatient for the results of the review of the services for the mentally handicapped. That review has been used as an excuse for the lack of action in that area. It is clear in Dublin that there is an urgent need for residential places for mentally handicapped children and that has been the position for a number of years. The failure to bring onstream the necessary resources which are in place in Cheeverstown is a scandal. Any resources available tend to be used to relocate children who were unsuitably placed in the larger psychiatric hospitals. We will not tolerate the excuse of the review much longer. I hope proposals are announced in the budget to allocate more places for the mentally handicapped. There is a great need for more places in Dublin and in the Eastern Health Board area. I have been hearing about the review for the past 12 months and I will not tolerate it as an excuse much longer.

In the reforms we have proposed we estimate that with the abolition of the health boards and a more efficient delivery of the health services we could save up to £30 million in administrative costs. That money could be invested in developing the services requested by Members today. I hope the negotiations with the IMO in regard to the GMS prove fruitful, that the major element of the settlement will be by way of capitation and that as little as possible will be by way of additional services. The Minister should consider giving incentives for the establishment of group practices and, where possible, the employment of nurses. We should ensure that doctors have a better quality of lifestyle and that their patients have a better standard of services. A group practice is more suitable than an anonymous call system because doctors in a group practice are known to patients. In the negotiations with the IMO the Minister should encourage such a development.

I should like to make a plea to the Minister to develop the service for infertile couples. Deputies from all parties have taken an interest in this matter and requested a meeting with the Minister to exchange views on this problem which affect one in ten couples here. There is little known about this and we are anxious to have the problem placed high on the agenda for the development of the health services. We look forward to a positive response from the Minister in relation to that.

I often wonder whether the Minister finds time to recollect his four years as spokesperson for Health for the Fianna Fáil Party. That party sent the Minister into the Chamber day after day and night after night to protest in the strongest possible terms about every attempt to save money on the health services. Fianna Fáil sent their Deputies all over the country to help organise protests, sometimes of the most violent kind, against any attempt to introduce proposals similar to those being carried out by the Minister. I accept that in those days the Minister was speaking on behalf of the Fianna Fáil front bench, that he was announcing their decision. That was good policy for the front bench because all they were concerned with was making people unhappy and discontented and to stir up strife. They did everything possible to get votes for Fianna Fáil at the election.

I accept that the Minister is a busy man and that he may not find time to recollect his four years in Opposition but he should allocate a few minutes of each day to meditate on what happened in the past four years. He should examine his conscience on the attitude he adopted when in Opposition.

And vow to be a good boy the next time.

Such an exercise would be extremely funny if the matter was not so serious. We live in an age when politicians are under attack, when the media belittle politicians and accuse them of having ulterior motives for doing this, that and the other. Politicians are presented to the country as unworthy people but it is not the politicians who are at fault but the system we have. I cannot think of anything more calculated to damage our political system, and the reputation of politicians, than the attitude adopted by Fianna Fáil when in Opposition and their actions in Government.

Fianna Fáil are not closing down hospitals one at a time; groups of them are being earmarked for closure. The Government are refusing to provide elementary medical and dental attention for those in dire need of it. It is possible to postpone some treatment but any malformation which can be rectified should be dealt with as a matter of urgency. We should not allow such malformations to go untreated. On 19 February I tabled a question to the Minister for Health in regard to a schoolboy in my constituency who was found in the course of a school examination to have a malformation of his teeth. He was recommended for orthodontic treatment. The health board accepted he had a serious problem but they could not do anything about it. It was pointed out to the health board that a few miles away, across the Border, treatment was available in a hospital. The health board were asked to fund the treatment for the boy but they refused to do so. I know that my time is limited. I put down a question on that matter and the relevant portion of the Minister's reply, given to me on 9 February, reads as follows:

In the specific case with which the Deputy is concerned I have been informed by the North-Eastern Health Board that while the person in question—

—the person in question is a schoolboy—

—has a serious orthodontic problem he is not a Category I Priority Case. The health board has stated that there are limitations of the types of orthodontic treatment which it at present can have carried out. In the circumstances which I have outlined I am sure that the Deputy will appreciate the difficulties which the board have in providing orthodontic services.

This unfortunate boy had malformation in his teeth and the older he got the more difficult his problem became and he could not eat properly. This boy is to be condemned to go through life with that malformation. He might even end up by not being able to speak properly. When he leaves school if he presents himself for any sort of job where he has to meet the public he will be starting off with a handicap. I ask is that fair? Is it something that can be postponed? The simple answer is no. That reply from a Government who said there was a better way, who ballyragged Deputy Barry Desmond, the Fine Gael Party and every member of the last Government for not providing a perfect system of health services, is simply not good enough.

I want to call on the Minister, even at this late stage, to do something for this boy. He has a file on him. The remedy lies in Northern Ireland. When the Government were in Opposition they would probably have said that it was not right to send a patient to Northern Ireland or to have anything to do with services provided by Her Majesty, the Queen, but in Government they have come a long way from that. I would ask the Minister, in the name of humanity, to send that boy to Northern Ireland to have him attended to.

I wish to speak briefly about my old and very dear friend, the general hospital in Cavan town. We, in Cavan, have waited for about 50 years for a hospital. During those 50 years we have suffered substandard hospitals, particularly in the surgical field. It is true that 20 or 30 years ago we got a medical hospital in a building which was a sanatorium in the days before tuberculosis was brought under control. That hospital is not and never was suited to be a medical hospital and I do not think the Minister would say it was. After putting on all sorts of pressure, waiting and praying, the hospital has been built in Cavan and we are all very proud of it. It is a very fine building that will serve the people of that region for many years to come, certainly 100 years. It is of the white elephant variety at present because it is not open. The Minister will remember that another job he was given as spokesman for Health in the Fianna Fáil Party, was to complain bitterly about a hospital in Tralee that was not being opened.

And Beaumont.

We heard about Tralee and Beaumont night after night. I want the Minister to open the Cavan hospital. I am not satisfied with the part of his speech which says that construction or equipping will be continued on all the major general hospital projects that are provided for, including St. James's, the Mater, Cavan, Mullingar, Castlebar, Loughlinstown, Waterford Regional Hospital and Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital in Drogheda. He does not say how long this will go on, whether it will be completed this year, next year or never. I want him to give an undertaking that it will be completed now. I have read in The Anglo Celt that another £500,000 will be necessary to complete the work.

It is bad economics and a waste of money to leave this hospital unopened when all the work was completed several months ago and it was handed over to the health board. The State has to provide caretaking facilities and heating. Admittedly, the amount of money necessary to heat it at this time of year is not as much as it will be later in the year but I am thinking of the winter months. I want an assurance from the Minister that he will see to it that the hospital is opened. He should tell us, when replying, what parts of the hospital will be opened and when. When it was handed over it was stated that a section or sections of it would be opened in September. I would like the Minister to tell us if that promise still stands and, if part of the hospital is to be opened in September, what part of it will be opened. Will the surgical section be transferred from the 200-year old building that it is in at present and that has been condemned as a fire hazard and a health risk? Were it not for the care and attention given to it by the staff it would be an obvious public disgrace. I would like the Minister to give us that information in precise terms. The information he has given in his speech is far too general. He mentioned this list of hospitals in a few lines without spelling out what he means. I am particularly concerned with the Cavan hospital. I want to know when it will be opened. I want an assurance that there will be no more waste of money and that this fine building with its fine equipment will be staffed and put into operation.

I would like to take the opportunity on behalf of The Workers' Party to respond to the Minister who has what must be the most dismal and difficult job that any Minister in the present administration has to undertake. Often times I am almost given to feeling sympathy for the Minister for the thankless task that has been bestowed on him by the Government, to come in here and try to push and promote one of the most devasting programmes of Government that has been introduced into the health system since the foundation of the State. Its treatment of the elderly and the ill must be the hallmark of any civilised society. These categories, particularly in the lower income groups, have suffered most as a result of Fianna Fáils health cuts. Those who can afford private medical care, those who can afford to pay for treatment in the luxurious surroundings of the Mater Private Hospital and the Blackrock Clinic, are not suffering. The elderly person living alone and depending on a public health nurse, the unemployed person who has to sit for hours in an outpatients' unit awaiting treatment, the mother with a handicapped, incontinent child, depending on the health board for nappies, these are the victims of the Minister's and the Taoiseach's health cuts. It is no exaggeration to say that the cuts in funding and the staffing reductions have left the health services in many areas on the verge of collapse. Putting highly trained medical staff out of jobs is a particularly false economy. The highly trained doctors, nurses and technicians who are being forced out of work are unlikely to get alternative employment in this country and will have no option but to emigrate and their services and expertise will be lost to us. The money spent on their training will have been wasted as far as the Irish people are concerned.

There is no way of establishing how many serious or potentially fatal health problems have not been detected or treated in time because of the health cuts, because the victim did not have the price of a visit to a private hospital or was forced to wait too long for specialist treatment or a hospital bed. All this is starkly ironic when one considers a quote of the present Taoiseach in an interview given to The Irish Press in September 1984. He said:

The health services have been reduced to dangerously inadequate levels and I think if it hasn't happened already people will die because of the unavailability of services in certain areas.

That was the Taoiseach's view in 1984. Deputy Fitzpatrick suggested that the Minister should take time to reflect on his record during that time, but how does the Taoiseach reflect on the current level of services in the health area given the view he expressed in 1984 and all that has happened since?

In the litany of woes that are inevitably presented here during Estimates debates and at other times, we often lose sight of some of the more fundamental issues confronting the medical and health services. That is all the more remarkable when one considers that there is available to all, and in particular to the Government, the work of ten years of Professor Dale Tussing on the structure and development of our health services. His report, published in 1985, has been given scant attention by the previous and present Governments.

He looked at the services and came to some very basic conclusions, conclusions which, on behalf of The Workers' Party I would ask the Minister to address. The first related to the delivery of services and how they should be concentrated. He concluded — and all of us on reflection would agree — that the most important service that must be delivered was the provision of primary care for all. He looked at all the arguments and the ways this could be achieved and eventually came to the conclusion that any effective service of delivery of primary care in the health area could only come from a free general practitioner service available to all the population. He also argued that the method of remuneration of general practitioners under the national medical care service must be changed from the present system of payment per item of service to one based on the payment of a salary to every doctor who works the general medical service. This makes sense. It is the ultimate way of reducing the demand for hospital services.

The Government are intent on ignoring the logic of Professor Tussing's position and are trying to reduce demand on hospital services simply by imposing new charges and by reducing the number of beds and other facilities which are available. Needless to say, all that can achieve is an increase in what the National Economic and Social Council call "the incidence of untreated treatable illness", by scaring people away from the general practitioners in case they are referred to hospitals and charged the £10 tax.

Indeed, this £10 hospital tax may even increase the incentive for people to seek hospital rather than general practitioner care since the VHI have provided coverage for this for existing members and a special new scheme for the remaining non-medical card holders who are not already members. Thus the type of the structural change for which Professor Tussing argued so logically and forcefully is further away than ever, rather than being addressed by this Government.

The second major issue on which he reached a conclusion was public versus private health care. We, in The Workers' Party, tend to argue this from the point of view of equity and equality in the service. In his conclusions Professor Tussing was obliged to recommend — and we say his recommendations should be supported — the separation of public and private health care, the reduction and eventual removal entirely of all public subsidies to private medicine, and the progressive improvement of standards in the public health service. This is an area which has not been addressed and, if anything, we are further away from it as we move rapidly in the direction of Americanised private medicine.

Another conclusion of Professor Tussing's is so logical and rational that one often wonders why it is not advanced more often in this House. So long as we depend on a health service it will be impossible through direct central Government to control costs in the area of public health. He concluded:

...this is virtually impossible in a system which is decentralised, market-orientated and insurance-based to have direct or effective control. Under a centralised system, as in the British NHS, spending can be controlled fairly easily, but a system which is dominated by insurance and market forces is not at all amenable to central control. This is especially so in Ireland, where the effect of the various "incentives" (such as the present system of paying GPs, the terms of the consultants' common contracts, the VHI reimbursement of medical and hospital expenses, and the tax relief on VHI premia) all serve to encourage private health care, to subsidise it more and more with public funds, to starve public health care resources and to drive more and more people away from it, whatever the cost.

What this means is that the more health care in Ireland is "privatised — be it through direct measures like subsidising new private hospitals and closing down public ones, or indirectly by forcing more and more people into the VHI through the introduction of charges — the more impossible it becomes to control costs; and the more wild, illogical and extreme will become future Governments' efforts to control those costs through short-term budgetary measures and diktats to hospitals and health boards.

In short, the economic policy of the axe in conjunction with over-emphasis on the development of privatised hospitalisation in this country will never be a remedy for all the problems the Minister sought to address.

In the few moments left to me, I would like to turn to an issue which must be one of the most urgent in the area of medical health. Not unremarkably this has been raised by every contributor to the debate so far. I am speaking of dental and orthodontic care, particularly for the young and for school children. In response to a question on 24 May last, the Minister told me that in the Eastern Health Board region, which is a little greater than the Dublin area — there is the unbelievable figure of 1,286 children awaiting complicated orthodontic treatment. Those are the Minister's own words and they bear repeating. The implications are horrific. It has been pointed out that the waiting list has grown because the Minister has been unable to fill the vacant post of consultant orthodontist to the Eastern Health Board.

It is my information that dentists without any kind of orthodontic experience are being trained on an ongoing basis to take on the work in this area in an effort to relieve the problem. Young children who require major surgery or the fixing of appliances have to wait up to two years for assessment and there is a further delay before they can be treated directly. In my constituency a young person who requires this type of treatment is assessed locally and then referred to Our Lady's Hospital in Crumlin, where the queue grows longer every day.

It is not good enough to say there is difficulty in filling a post. This problem requires the filling of many posts immediately. The Minister is obviously aware of the problem. Deputy Fitzpatrick has put it in a far more eloquent way than I could. I urge the Minister to address this problem before we return to the House in October.

I would also ask the Minister to turn his attention to the introduction of a comprehensive cervical and breast screening service throughout the country, but particularly in the Dublin area. An horrific number of women suffer death as a result of cancer of the cervix and the breast. These cancers are easily detectable at an early stage and can be successfully treated.

We in The Workers' Party do not argue that radical reform and rationalisation of the health service is not necessary. On the contrary, it is long overdue. Our opposition to hospital closures is not based on a belief that institutional care is necessary in all cases. Existing health expenditure is not too high when the needs of our people are considered. We argue that resources could be better spent on other services, but until these services are in place there should be no reduction in what exists currently. The Minister and the Government have gone the wrong way about radical reform in the health service. The blunt instrument being used is not in keeping with the best interests of the country and the health care of the people as a whole. We, like the Labour Party, oppose this Estimate and will be calling for a division.

In the short space of time available to me it will not be possible to deal in detail with all the points raised but I will go through them as rapidly as I can. Deputy Allen claimed we were making a middle-class assessment of the health service. My policy and that of the Government has always been to ensure that the highest level of service is available to everybody, irrespective of income, within the financial constraints that exist. We are spending almost 20 per cent of the non-capital Exchequer funding on our health services.

Deputies Allen and Howlin referred to two consultants in the Meath Hospital, whom they congratulated on their stand. I should like to ask these Deputies for their views on the fact that beds were available in the Adelaide Hospital when patients were lying on trolleys. How can they congratulate consultants making statements like that?

It is a scandal that people are on trolleys after surgery.

There were beds available in the Adelaide Hospital. Deputy Allen referred to the Fine Gael plan to abolish the health boards. I see no evidence in the Fine Gael plan or elsewhere as to why the health boards should be abolished at this time. If they were abolished, I believe the areas on the periphery would suffer. Not alone would we have a Bord Sláinte but we would have health boards by another name around the country. There is nothing in the document about health promotion, although it is stated that there will be another document at some other time. Neither is there anything about funding. I wonder if Deputy Bruton had any input since he has always advocated that no policy document should be produced without every item in it being funded.

A saving of £30 million.

It contains nothing about drug abuse, although Deputy Allen rightly expressed concern about the abuse of drugs, legally or illegally prescribed. Deputy Allen also referred to Our Lady's Hospital in Cork and said I had instructed the health board without giving them the necessary funding. I have already dealt with that matter in the House. I did not instruct the health board. The inspector of mental hospitals reported to me under the 1945 Mental Treatment Act. I met the chairman and the CEO of the Southern Health Board and the CEO presented a very comprehensive report on what he intended to do to improve the situation in Our Lady's Hospital. He has my full support and initially we will see how far he can go within the £10 million which is available for the psychiatric service in Cork.

I want to make it clear that the administrative charges referred to by Deputy Allen and Deputy Howlin were not introduced by me in this House. The £10 charge for out-patient and in-patient hospital treatment was introduced by the Oireachtas and is still in place.

Arrangements are being made with Our Lady's Hospital in Crumlin to deal with an average of two bone marrow transplant cases per month and this should be sufficient to meet all the cases arising in this country. Progress will be made in clearing up the small backlog of cases which need to be dealt with. I want to place on record my appreciation of the co-operation and initiative shown by Our Lady's Hospital in finding a way to solve this problem.

Is that programme under way?

Deputy Harney referred to the waiting lists, which I agree are a matter of concern. This problem is not new. There has been a particular problem in regard to hip replacements. The service has been available for the past 12 years and the waiting list is increasing all the time due to the demand. We are taking some action to deal with it. We hope that the increased theatre space in Cappagh Hospital, which we are providing in conjunction with the Arthritis Foundation, will be one of the ways to alleviate that problem. In the negotiations that are going on it is very important not just to look at the method of remuneration for the general practitioners. I am glad to say that the negotiations have gone on in a very constructive way, looking at what was recommended in the report of the working party on general practice, and hopefully they will be brought to a successful conclusion. The service provided by doctors paid on capitation is equally good for the patient. If one looks at other countries where doctors are paid on capitation, the service is very good for the general practitioners.

Listening to Deputy Howlin, one would think that we had no health service in the country at all. He must not be aware that we are spending £1,300 million, 18 per cent of the Exchequer non-capital funding, on the health services and that there are almost 60,000 people working in the health service, so that we have a very good health service. Deputy Howlin shed crocodile tears about hospital beds being closed, yet came into this House and walked through the lobby not alone to close a hospital but, when it was closed, to have it privatised, which is totally foreign to socialist policy.

If the Minister wants to misrepresent facts he may continue on that line.

Deputy Desmond, when he was in Government, closed hospitals but never suggested privatising them.

It was a Fianna Fáil con trick that went wrong on the Minister. The Minister tried to do a deal with Fine Gael and it backfired.

The Deputy voted to privatise the hospital. The Deputy is complaining about closing hospitals; he came in here to close one and then wanted it privatised on top of closing it. That is something for a socialist party.

It was because the Minister's cosy deal with Fine Gael did not work.

On the dental services and the question raised by Deputy Fitzpatrick, I share his concern about the orthodontic service but that again is not new. An advertisement was placed for five orthodontists for the health boards and only one post was filled as a result of that competition. For years the dental services have been the cinderella of the health services. Deputy McCartan referred to the long waiting lists but there were long waiting lists last year, the year before and the year before. I asked my colleague, Deputy Leyden, who is Minister of State, to chair a committee to look at the dental services to see how they could be improved in conjunction with the dental hospitals to ensure that the highest level of service is provided. I received that report on Tuesday last. I am studying it at present and would like to place on record my thanks to Deputy Leyden and all those who served on that small working party for their input into it.

Deputy Flaherty raised the very important issue of the accident and emergency services. The number of patients who turn up at accident and emergency units in hospitals, and the effect that has on elective admissions into hospitals, must be of concern. Since the beginning of January we have been getting figures from all the major hospitals as to the number of patients and the origin of those patients. I am also looking at staffing levels to see the level of senior staffing that is available in the accident and emergency departments. I am looking too at the continuity of general practitioner services available in the Dublin city area. I would like to place on record my appreciation of the work that is being done in accident and emergency units. The level of investigation that they are capable of carrying out in a short space of time, sometimes in the middle of the night, by way of laboratory investigations, X-rays and tests on people is amazing.

Earlier, I dealt with the question of services for the mentally handicapped. I am satisfied that we have more than adequately kept the funding for this free from the cuts that unfortunately had to be made in other areas for the reasons I stated.

We have a first class general practitioner service; we have a first class acute hospital service available to those in need. I accept that there are waiting lists and we are looking to see how we can deal with them. Again, they have always been a feature of the service, and I accept that it is something we have to address. Psychiatric services are going ahead in accordance with planning for the future. There are gaps in the community care service but I am glad to say that the percentage of the budget available to me to be spent on community care is increasing each year.

I am quite satisfied with our health promotion unit to which has been transferred the functions formerly carried on by the Health Education Bureau. The health promotion unit is worthy of the support of all Deputies in this House, as is the Advisory Council, chaired by the president of the College of Physicians, who are working on some programmes on nutrition and the abuse of alcohol and tobacco, which will be very beneficial. Accidents and the prevention of accidents is another area that we are addressing and which has a major impact on accident and emergency departments.

Finally, a committee of six Ministers, chaired by myself, whose function is to ensure that these worthwhile policies are implemented has been set up. While in the short-term it is hard to see the benefit of health promotion, it is an area that is worthy of the support of the Members of the House. In conclusion, I thank the Deputies for their contributions.

Is the motion agreed?

I must then put the question: "That the Estimate for the Department of Health for the year ended 31 December 1988 is hereby agreed". I think the motion is carried.

Deputies

Vótáil.

Pursuant to Standing Order 127 the Vote in that case will take place at 8.30 p.m. on the next night on which the Dáil sits that late, that is, next Tuesday,.

On a point of order, I understood the Whips had agreed that the Vote would take place on Wednesday.

The Chair indicates always what is required of the Chair and according to the Standing Order the Vote takes place on the next night, following the decision of the Dáil, on which the Dáil sits at 8.30 p.m. and that, as far as I am concerned, is next Tuesday. That can be changed between now and then but, as far as I am concerned, that is the stated announcement.

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