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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 19 Oct 1988

Vol. 383 No. 1

Insurance Bill, 1987 [Seanad]: Second Stage.

I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time".

This is an important measure which, following detailed consideration and debate, was passed by the Seanad last June. Its primary purpose is to strengthen and secure the position of policyholders in their dealings with insurance companies and intermediaries. I am sure that the Bill will find broad acceptance on all sides of the House.

The Bill has three basic objectives: first to strengthen the Minister's legislative powers in relation to the supervision of insurers; second to regulate commissions paid to intermediaries, where policyholders' interests so require; and third to introduce for the first time in substantive insurance law a form of regulation for insurance intermediaries.

May I ask Deputies to pay attention to the Minister when he is introducing the Second Stage of this Bill?

Perhaps we could have copies of the Minister's speech?

Copies will be distributed.

I think it would be a useful exercise, before setting out in detail the provisions of the Bill, to outline the role of the Minister for Industry and Commerce in relation to the insurance industry and also to refer to the range of actions taken to improve the overall environment affecting the Irish insurance market. The first duty of the Minister in relation to insurance companies is the supervision of insurers to ensure that they are capable of meeting their liabilities and that they are solvent and to take appropriate action to remedy the situation if they are not.

It is not the function of the Minister to run insurance companies, to make commercial decisions for them or to exercise business acumen on their behalf. The directors and officers of an insurer are responsible in the first instance for the direction of the insurer's affairs and for compliance with the law. Others, such as auditors and actuaries, who are charged with specific statutory duties must also play their part.

In this Bill, I am taking power to require that those appointed as directors or officers of an insurer are suitably qualified or experienced to handle the task. Of course, these powers do not of themselves guarantee the effectiveness of such persons in discharging their duties. No amount of legislation could achieve that. They are nevertheless an important additional safeguard in the supervisory process.

What preoccupies most people in relation to insurance are the issues of cost, availability and coverage, particularly in the motor and liability classes. There is widespread agreement that the cost of insurance in this country has been too high and for far too long. It is also generally accepted that the high cost of insurance is directly related to the number and level of claims, the under-writing losses sustained by insurers and the enormous expenses which arise in the claims process, particularly when the courts are involved.

The Government in their Programme for National Recovery pointed out that Irish liability insurance rates place many Irish firms at a cost disadvantage, particularly in comparison with their United Kingdom competitors, and they under-took to move quickly to facilitate a reduction in insurance costs. The Government over the past 18 months have tackled this area vigorously and with a sense of urgency.

The most important commitment given by the Government was to abolish the use of civil juries in personal injury and fatal accident cases in the High Court.

The Courts Act, 1988, came into force on 1 August 1988. Jury trials in personal injury and fatal accident cases are no longer available to parties in litigation from that date. The object of this change is to bring greater consistency and predictability into the awards of damages in these cases, and to enable a much greater proportion of cases to be settled at an earlier stage in legal proceedings.

The insurance industry, supported by bodies such as the CII and FUE, have for long cited the availability of jury trial as a principal cause of the high cost of motor and liability insurance in this country. The Government have now delivered on their commitment to do away with the jury system. There is, therefore, a clear onus on the insurance industry in Ireland to translate the benefits arising from that important change in the legal framework into lower insurance premiums for the general public and for industry. I have already emphasised to the insurance industry the necessity for premium reductions to be passed on to the insuring public and I have asked my Department to monitor premium levels to ensure that they do so.

I am glad to say that there are signs already of an improvement in this regard. It is apparent that premium levels in motor insurance have been reducing in recent months as a result of increased competition in the marketplace and in anticipation of the effect of the abolition of juries and of the other Government measures to improve the overall environment for insurance. Indeed, the initial results of a survey on motor insurance premium levels carried out by my Department indicate that decreases of between 3 per cent and 4 per cent for third party motor rates have already occurred within the last 12 months or so. Certain insurers have also introduced much more attractive premium ratings for young drivers.

The cost reduction measures already taken will have a general beneficial effect on the downward pressure on insurance costs and will also apply to the other liability insurance classes, including employers' and public liability insurance. My Department, with the co-operation of the CII and other relevant organisations, are currently monitoring developments in this area.

The most recent CII survey indicates that, on average, employers' liability insurance rates have fallen from 2.78 per cent of payroll costs in 1986 to 1.85 per cent of payroll costs in 1988. While the cost of employers' liability insurance may in some cases in the past have acted as a disincentive to employment, the latest encouraging trends are reducing its importance in this regard. I will continue to press for across-the-board reductions resulting from an improved operating environment for insurers and not just reductions concentrated in the better risk areas.

Another matter that has become linked with the jury issue is concern about high legal costs in insurance cases. Until recently, virtually every personal injury case in the High Court — no matter how straightforward — involved at least eight lawyers, including three counsel on each side. That was regarded, quite properly as a gross extravagance, and there is a commitment in the Programme for National Recovery to reduce legal representation in Superior Court cases. In line with that commitment, the Government decided to include a provision in the Courts Act, 1988, that empowers the Minister for Justice to regulate the number of counsel whose fees can be recovered by a successful plaintiff in a personal injury case.

Independently of this statutory intervention — though some would say because of it — the Bar Council announced it would abandon the long-standing "three counsel" practice in personal injury cases when jury trials ceased. On the other hand, in response to my call for rationalisation of legal representation levels, spokesmen for the insurance industry have suggested that most personal injury cases could be pleaded before a judge by one counsel and, of course, this is the position in Britain where most personal injury cases are pleaded by one junior counsel. I would expect that, as the largest consumer of legal services in the country, the insurance industry are in a strong position to influence the number of legal rep-resentatives that are briefed in these cases. I am aware that discussions with representatives of the Bar Council are continuing and both I and the Minister for Justice will be monitoring developments. The Minister for Justice intends to wait until the position has settled after the abolition of civil juries in these cases, before considering the question of regulations under the new power vested in him by the Courts Act, 1988.

Arising from another commitment in the Programme for National Recovery, the Government have asked the Minister for Justice to consider how best a Book of Quantum of Damages might be drawn up. For people who may not be familiar with the concept, a Book of Quantum of Damages is a term used to describe a legal publication which contains information on the amounts of damages awarded by the courts in personal injury cases, classified by types of injury, together with statements of the law and practice in relation to the assessment of damages. Such a Book of Quantum of Damages is published in Britain and used there as a guide for the insurance industry, the legal profession and the judiciary in settling and deciding cases.

The Minister for Justice has recently stressed that the production of a Book of Quantum of Damages geared to Irish circumstances is not primarily a matter for the State. It would not, of course, prescribe a statutory tariff of damages. In his view, it is really a matter for private enterprise, as in Britain, and it is likely that as judges start deciding personal injury cases and issue reasoned judgments, interest will develop in law reporting in this area, leading eventually to publications similar to the Book of Quantum of Damages used in Britain. Indeed, one such project enterprise has already been mooted.

Apart from that, the Minister for Justice has referred the question of a Book of Quantum to the Incorporated Council of Law Reporting for Ireland for consideration by them. The Minister for Justice is represented on the council, which includes members of the Judiciary and representatives of the legal profession. The council are currently considering this matter and expect to conclude their examination later this year.

Another development in this area worth mentioning is a recent initiative by the Irish Insurance Federation in arranging that member companies will maintain a record of major categories of injury, will collate data on award settlements and circulate the results to members and to my Department. Such data will complement data on court awards in injury cases and help to provide an overall view of the quantum of damages in personal injury cases.

Another commitment in the Programme for National Recovery is the question of introducing a system of pretrial procedures in the High Court to enable subsidiary issues to be disposed of by agreement between the parties before a trial. The aim would be to limit the issues going to court to those that remain in dispute between the parties. Such a procedure would eliminate the need to call witnesses to prove various matters which are not in dispute between the parties, such as road maps, plans, photographs and certain evidence about injuries sustained in connection with an accident.

As well as reducing legal and expert witnesses costs, such a facility could have a major influence on personal injury cases by providing new procedural machinery to advance the prospects of settlements in cases that go all the way to trial at present. The Minister for Justice hopes to put proposals to the Government shortly in the context of a Court Officers Bill — which is at an advanced stage of preparation in his Department — to facilitate the introduction of a system of pre-trial procedures in the High Court.

Also, the Minister for the Environment is proposing to introduce new legislation to strengthen the road traffic code and to deal more effectively with certain aspects of uninsured driving and other offences. The measures proposed could include the impounding of motor vehicles to deal with uninsured driving.

The Minister for Labour will be introducing legislation shortly to give effect to the main recommendations of the Barrington Commission of Inquiry on Safety, Health and Welfare at Work. I also understand that ongoing discussions are taking place between the Department of Labour, the FUE and the Irish Insurance Federation on the question of the introduction of safety audit arrangements by insurance companies. I have given my full support and encouragement to these developments which are in the interest of the whole community.

I would hope for repaid progress on most, if not all, of the areas still outstanding so that we can maintain the momentum already created to tackle and get under control these component elements of insurance costs. Already, the signs are encouraging but much remains to be done. All these actions are proof positive of this Government's determination to overcome the problems which have built up over many years. Changes do not happen or take full effect overnight but I am confident that the decisive action being taken will in time prove instrumental in reducing insurance premiums.

The reduction in insurance premium rates is also very much in the insurance industry's interest particularly in the context of the liberalisation of the insurance market within the European Community. It is critically important for our economic well-being that insurers here be able to compete on an equal footing with potential EC services insurers in both efficiency and price. The programme of measures adopted by the Government is designed to assist insurers in this regard. There is no doubt that, once the non-life insurance Freedom of Services Directive gets underway in the nineties, there will be much greater competition, particularly for the better quality large industrial and commercial risks. There will also be greater freedom of choice for consumers and some policyholders will, undoubtedly, get cheaper insurance abroad. It is quite clear, then, that the combined effects of the Government's cost reduction measures and the liberalisation of insurance services will be of benefit to insurers and policyholders alike.

I now want to turn to the content of the Insurance Bill before the House and to describe briefly its main provisions. Part I contains the usual preliminary matters to be dealt with in any Bill. However, I would refer specifically to sections 3, 7 and 9.

Section 3 provides for substantial penalties for offences under the Act and increases existing penalties for breaches of insurance law to meaningful modern day levels. Stronger provisions are also being laid down in respect of penalties for the deliberate supply of false or misleading information. This is an important deterrent since the authorisation and supervision of insurers depend upon true and accurate data being submitted to the Minister.

Section 7 confers fee-charging powers on the Minister. Fees of this nature are now common in many other jurisdictions. Levels of fees have yet to be drawn up but I would emphasise that the intention is to charge for supervision of companies purely on a break-even basis. My Department have in recent years built up a considerable body of expertise in dealing with insurance. The calibre of staff is high. We are a small administration, however, and we cannot afford the levels of staff resources employed in other countries.

Having said that, I am happy that the provisions in this Bill to allow for the charging of fees for supervision will ensure that the required level of staff resources and expertise will continue to be made available. The computerisation of the insurance branch of the Department is now well established — in the case of non-life insurance supervision — and has been progressing satisfactorily in relation to life assurers. This is contributing to the efficiency of the supervisory service.

Section 9 of the Bill repeals some provisions of earlier insurance law, which are long spent. These are non-contentious in nature.

Part II of the Bill is concerned with the supervision of insurance companies. The core provisions of this Part relate to the keeping of records and submission of regular information by insurers, supplemented by specific requests for additional data or special examinations and to the specification by the Minister of the essential rules regarding the estimation of insurance liabilities and the nature, spread and valuation of assets to meet such liabilities. This is, of course, the system we have been operating for several years past. The annual returns of insurers are currently made pursuant to various regulations made between 1976 and 1986 under the European Communities Act, 1972. The powers now being taken in sections 11 and 12 will, for the first time, enshrine these rules and requirements in substantive insurance law.

Section 13 obliges an insurance company to keep records of its business in the State at its registered office or place of business here.

Under section 14 life assurers must ensure that policyholders and shareholders funds are kept separate.

In the interests of consumer protection, restrictions on the use to which the assets representing the combined life assurance fund may be put are set out in section 15. These are prudential requirements in the supervisory process to protect policyholders.

In Section 16 the Minister is being empowered to require information, both in relation to insurers themselves and in relation to defined categories of bodies which may be connected with insurers. Practical experience suggests that this extension of powers is necessary. Insurers, of their nature, will have many and diverse investments in, and relationships with, other commercial concerns. The fortunes of such connected bodies may be intimately bound up with those of the insurer.

Section 17 entrusts formal powers of investigations to the Minister and enjoins on insurers full co-operation in these exercises. The practice of special examinations of insurers' affairs is not unusual. As a matter of routine, a number of insurers are selected each year by my Department for study by outside consultants, particularly in relation to any special aspects that have arisen from the examination of the insurers, annual returns.

Section 18 of the Bill provides the Minister with the power to intervene in the running of the business of an insurer which has encountered financial difficulties and whose solvency is in doubt. The powers of intervention include directions to cease taking on new business, to dispose of investments, to limit premium income, or to localise assets in the State. The powers are also exercisable on a number of other grounds specified in the section. While not directly related to solvency, these grounds are obviously of importance in a financial context — namely the power to intervene where unsatisfactory reinsurance is in force, or where the level and nature of business being written is radically different from the financial projections set out in the business plan submitted by the insurer when seeking authorisation. Insurance supervision cannot guarantee an insurer's solvency. It is important that the Minister should have the powers to take immediate action when problems come to light.

With the indulgence of the House, I will pass over section 19 for the moment. Section 20 deals with the qualifications of directors and managers and is relevant in completing this overview of insurance supervision. At present, under EC directives, insurers seeking authorisation are required to submit details of proposed directors and managers. The Minister does not authorise the insurer if he has an objection to any such person proposed.

Section 20 retains this system in that the Minister may decide not to grant an authorisation if he is unhappy with the suitability of any such person. However, it also extends the Minister's powers of requiring information to existing office-holders in insurers already authorised and to any new appointments to such offices. The Minister may object to any person holding a position of responsibility with an insurer if it appears to him that the person is not suitable. The Minister may require the insurer to take certain measures, along the lines set out in connection with section 18, for as long as the person in question holds the position with the insurer.

Additionally, the Minister may veto the appointment of any director, chief executive or authorised agent, if the person to be appointed is not in the Minister's view a suitable person. The powers in section 20 are new in an Irish context but they are a common feature of supervision abroad. It is vitally important that those responsible for directing the affairs of an insurer should be open to the tests of suitability and competence which this Bill provides. A very heavy duty falls on the shoulders of such persons. The public should know that an independent mechanism exists to weed out those who are unsuitable or not qualified for the task.

While my first role is the supervision of insurers from a solvency point of view, I have also a function to play in the supervision of the insurance market — in seeing how insurers operate and how they meet the demands put on them by those seeking insurance. The provisions in sections 19 and 21 fall under this heading of market supervision. Section 19 gives me the power to monitor the pricing practices of insurers and the contractual terms on which business is offered.

I am also taking power to require insurers, by order, to display premium rates and to provide information to consumers on policy conditions and rates in specified classes of insurance. The candidates for such orders are motor and household personal lines insurance. I am sure the taking of these powers will be welcomed.

Section 21 deals with a different problem. The possession of an insurance authorisation means a responsibility to write business in the class of business authorised. Authorisations are valuable peices of paper. Unfortunately, isolated cases can arise where insurers make little or no use of the authorisation in specific classes or temporarily withdraw from underwriting. There may be very good reasons for insurers doing so. We cannot force insurers to write insurance but we should certainly be able to act to withdraw or suspend authorisations in classes where no business is being done or where the scale of business has been so reduced as to amount in effect to a cessation of business.

The central focus of insurance supervision is on direct insurance, that is insurers who accept business from the public rather than from other insurance companies. Insurers themselves in taking on risks seek to minimise their risk exposure by reinsuring risks, or parts of risks, with other direct insurers and with specialist reinsurers.

Reinsurance is an international and specialised form of insurance. It is regulated in many countries abroad, but not here, except to the extent that it is engaged in by direct insurers authorised by the Minister. To attempt purely local supervision of specialist reinsurance in an Irish context would be ineffective.

However, there are measures we can take to regulate a limited aspect of reinsurance and to promote a degree of transparency in the operations of specialist reinsurers in the State. This is the purpose of section 22. First, on grounds of commercial prudence it prohibits direct insurers from accepting reinsurance except in a class for which they are authorised. Ancillary risks which form part of a reinsurance "basket" of risks, are, however, exempted from this prohibition so as not to cut across normal commercial practices in the market. The second requirement of this section is for specialist reinsurers established in the State to identify themselves to the Minister and to publish accounts in such form as the Minister specifies on grounds of transparency.

Section 23 of the Bill imposes a minimum paid-up share capital of £500,000 on insurers seeking authorisation and empowers the Minister to regulate the form and value of the share capital. This section incorporates into law present administrative practice and requirements in relation to the authorisation of insurers.

Section 24 deals with the attachment of conditions to authorisations and requires insurers to adhere to such conditions on penalty of suspension or revocation of authorisation.

Section 25 of the Bill relates to industrial assurance, which originated under completely different social conditions in the last century and is paid for by weekly premiums which are collected door to door and where the individual sums assured tend to be low. Over the last ten years this sector of the business has declined spectacularly while, at the same time, ordinary life assurance business has experienced substantial growth. New industrial branch business now accounts for only 1 per cent of all new business written each year.

The decline in this business can be attributed to changing social patterns, better social welfare provisioning, increased use of building society and bank accounts and the expansion of credit unions and post office savings. In addition, the expenses related to this business use up so much of the premium that, after providing for death claims, there is little left for investment on behalf of the policyholder. This is bad value for money and the Government, conscious of the position of the policyholder, feel that changes are required now in order to ensure that industrial assurance business continues to be written and that policyholders get a better return for their premiums.

In order to enable the industrial assurance companies to continue to under-write this business, the current legal requirement which stipulates that industrial and ordinary life assurance funds are kept separate is being removed. This will enable life assurers to write mixed business where the premium could be either collected at home or paid via a direct debit at the choice of the insured or in certain cases at the requirement of the insurer. The amalgamation of these funds will now be permitted under section 25 (1) and this does not have any solvency implications because, while the funds had to be kept separate, there was no requirement to keep the assets separate.

Section 25 (2) will permit insurers to reduce the frequency of collection in areas where collection costs are too high although a frequency of not less than two months is still required.

I should add that the changes are permissive rather than mandatory and insurers are not required either to amalgamate funds or revise collection periods unless they so wish. We cannot allow this business to fade away and I feel that we have struck the right balance in the change without prejudicing the rights of policyholders in general.

Section 25 (3) increases to more meaningful amounts — in current terms — the sums which can be assured under industrial assurance policies.

As with industrial assurance, section 26 is rooted in the past. Its purposed is to remove certain impediments to the writing of group policies of insurance contained in 18th and 19th century Insurance Acts. These provisions are uncontroversial.

The remaining sections in Part II of the Bill are a rather mixed bag. Section 27 extends to the Industrial Credit Company and Fóir Teoranta certain facilities to conducted suretyship and guarantee business which were extended to licensed banks in the State by the Insurance (Amendment) Act, 1978. The effect of the present section is to place the ICC and Fóir Teoranta on a similar footing. Licensed banks have also represented to me recently that there are certain problems remaining for them in this whole area and discussions are continuing with a view to resolving matters in this Bill if at all possible. An amendment on Committee Stage can be brought forward as appropriate.

Sections 28 and 29 are technical in construction but straightforward in intent. They are designed to close off a possible loophole whereby, under present legislation, a friendly society could be formed to conduct commercial insurance activity without being supervised under the Insurance Acts. Section 28 will mean that the insurance activities permitted to be carried on by friendly societies, and in section 29 by trade unions, will be strictly mutual self-help activities — of the sort which one associates with the raison d'être of these organisations anyhow.

Sections 30 and 31 deal with the unfortunate aspects of insurance resulting from the demise of an insurer. Section 30 is merely a precautionary measure to ensure that no petition can be presenated for the winding-up of an insurer without the Minister being involved or heard. There are a number of courses open to the Minister which could, in particular situations, be preferable to a winding-up — for example, the promotion of a takeover by another insurer. In any event, it is right that the Minister, as insurance supervisory authority, should at least be aware of any proposed moves in the area of winding-up.

Provision is being made in Section 31 to alter the applicability of the insurance compensation fund. The fund will continue to be available to the two existing companies under administration but no future administrator of a non-life insurer will have access to the fund. The appointment of any further administrator is not foreseen but the legislative framework, which is in the Insurance (No. 2) Act of 1983, will stand.

At present, in addition to administrators the fund can be used to meet claims arising in the liquidation of a non-life insurer. In future, in any such liquidation the fund would support only non-commercial personal claimants, and in their case a limit of £650,000 or 65 per cent of the claim, whichever is the lesser, will be applied. Furthermore, only liabilities in respect of policies issued in the State to cover risks situated in the State will be provided for. Refunds of premiums will not be covered.

These changes represent a significant reduction in the present levels of protection offered by the compensation fund. For that reason they are not lightly proposed. The changes are, however, absolutely necessary because the present arrangements are quite simply too generous, exposing the fund to a potentially unlimited liability. Adequate arrangements have been made to cater for all foreseeable demands arising from the present administration of two companies but it would be completely untenable to continue to leave the fund so exposed to any further demands.

The current statutory arrangement under which the Minister strikes a maximum levy of 2 per cent on non-life premium income each year is the most that could reasonably be demanded of or borne by policy holders to provide against insolvencies on the part of insurance companies. Because of the proposed restrictions on who can benefit from the fund, in the interests of equity and consistency the 2 per cent levy will now be payable only on policies issued in the State to cover risks situated in the State.

Section 32 provides, in the event of the winding-up of an insurer, for the granting of priority to the insurers' policyholders over those assets which the insurer is obliged to maintain to cover its liabilities to policyholders.

Section 33 is simply a declaratory statement to confirm that an administrator appointed under section 2 of the Insurance Act of 1983 has the power to sell all or part of a company under administration and to run off any remaining part of the business, including the settlement of liabilities.

Important new requirements in relation to actuaries are contained in section 34. In future all life insurers with head offices in the State will be required to appoint an actuary to the company, if they do not have one already. In practice most, if not all, such life companies already have an appointed actuary and actuarial staff. All new life insurers, upon authorisation, will be similarly required to appoint an actuary. Section 34 further gives formal statutory recognition to the status of the actuary in the company. The Minister is also empowered to specify the qualifications and experience of the appointed actuary, and in this way to add to the existing actuary qualification rules set out in regulations made in 1940.

The purpose of section 35 is to ensure that auditors notify my Department when they become aware of any difficulties, or potential problems, facing a client insurer. I should stress that we are referring here to problems or difficulties which are likely to materially affect either the company's obligations to policyholders or their financial requirements under the Insurance Acts. In deciding on the final provisions of this section, account was taken of the views expressed during our discussions with the bodies representing both the insurance industry and the accountancy professions.

Part III of the Bill is concerned with commissions paid to insurance intermediaries. The provisions in this part are based on similar provisions in the Insurance Bill, 1982, which was not proceeded with at that time because insurers arrived at a self-regulatory agreement on life insurance commissions.

The reason the State should have the power to legislate for arrangments on remuneration between insurers and insurance intermediaries is obvious. It is the policyholder who ultimately pays for the commissions paid to intermediaries.

Excessively high levels of commission entail higher premiums or reduced benefits. There is also the danger that excessive commission levels can cause policies to be sold to unsuspecting clients on the basis of the return to the intermediary rather than on their intrinsic merit or appropriateness to the very needs of the client.

There have been a number of infractions of the Commissions' Agreements over the years, mainly arising from extra monetary and other inducements such as holidays in the sun offered to intermediaries by insurance companies, in order to increase market share. If this had proliferated, the consumer's interest would have been seriously threatened. For that reason I intervened in the most recent breakdown of the agreement following which there was a very welcome response from the industry. This resulted in a new commission agreement being drawn up with effect from 1 August 1987. This agreement has the support of all the life offices operating in the marketplace. In the Government's view it is highly preferable that the insurance industry should regulate themselves and that regulation must be effective and must be seen to be so. This is the philosophy which underlies Part III of this Bill, the provisions of which are enabling. It is not the intention to invoke these provisions unless the industry fails to regulate itself properly, in which event the Minister can have recourse to a range of highly effective measures. Given the extremely sensitive nature of commissions agreements and the difficulty of maintaining and enforcing them, the insurers concerned accept that the powers now proposed are an essential back-up to the maintenance of voluntary market self-regulation.

Section 36 enables the Minister to require an insurer to reduce commission payments to intermediaries where he considers levels to be excessive.

Under section 37 the Minister has the power, when he considers it necessary in the public interest, to prohibit the payment of commission in the form of benefits in kind and indemnity commissions. This is essentially a reserve power and is not intended to cut across normal business relationships between insurers and intermediaries.

Convictions for offences under section 36 and 37 are grounds for the revocation of authorisation of an insurer under section 38.

Under section 39, a conviction under section 36 or 37 will result in a prohibition on the convicted party advertising his business for as long as commission levels are excessive.

Section 40 makes it an offence, subject to certain in-built defences, for an intermediary to accept from an insurer a commission payment which is in contravention of either section 36 or section 37.

Section 41 allows a person to seek a refund of premiums on a life policy where an excessive or prohibited commission was paid.

Section 42 enables the Minister to require information on commission payments from authorised insurers.

While the emphasis on Part III of the Bill is very much on self regulation in the whole area of insurance commissions, it will be perfectly clear from the foregoing that a wide range of measures is available if circumstances warrant ministerial intervention at any time in the future. The objective is to maintain order in this sensitive area, whether by voluntary market self-regulation or by statutory control in the public interest should this prove necessary.

Now we turn to Part IV which is the innovative Part of the Bill. At present there are no provisions in statute governing insurance intermediaries, a generic grouping which forms an important pivotal link in the insurance chain. The general thrust of what we are out to achieve here is the development of a self-regulatory framework for intermediaries, with the aim of raising standards in this area and the enhancement of mainly financial safeguards for customers in their dealings with intermediaries. Let me say from the outset that the vast majority of insurance intermediaries conduct their business in a capable and responsible fashion. However, there have been many calls in recent years from some quarters for provisions in law to deal with the difficulties that arise very occasionally in customers' dealings with insurance agents or brokers.

The raising of standards is an important issue which I am aware is being pursued vigorously by the two bodies representing the broking profession. High standards of integrity and professional competence are very desirable from the consumer's viewpoint and accordingly the efforts of the broker bodies are most commendable. The crucially important safeguard for the consumer, however, is financial protection in the event of failure on the part of the intermediary to meet such standards. This was the fundamental concern of the government in their consideration of how best to deal with the whole area of insurance intermediaries.

The primary concern is to protect the consumer as far as practicable. I emphasise "as far as practicable". Legislation cannot reasonably be expected to cosset the man in the street from every possible adverse circumstance. While, theoretically, a scheme of regulation could be designed to cater for all possible hazards in this area, in practice the direct and indirect costs and inevitable rigidity in any such system would result in a disservice to the consumer. By outweighing the benefits conferred, such a scheme would be open to as much objection as the features it sought to remove. The House will be aware of the many criticisms of this nature which have been levelled against the Financial Services Act in the UK for example, on the grounds that it is too doctrinaire and that the compliance costs involved are too high.

Part IV of the Bill includes the following provisions of a financial or accounting nature: first, the maintenance of separate client accounts by all intermediaries other than tied agents; second, the bonding requirements on intermediaries; third, the provisions in regard to the scope of an insurer's responsibility for his agents; fourth, the treatment of premiums paid to intermediaries, and fifth, the professional indemnity insurance provisions for brokers.

The intention is that Part IV of the Bill will for the first time establish minimum desirable criteria for persons wishing to act as intermediaries be they tied agents, agents or insurance brokers, so as to protect consumers.

Turning to the individual sections of Part IV, section 43 sets out the basic qualifications necessary for those wishing to act as insurance brokers and provides for recognition by the Minister of broker bodies. A broker will have to be in a position to arrange insurance with at least five life insurers to act in the life sector or with at least five non-life insurers to act as a general broker. These requirements are important and I am sure the House will accept that it is imperative for a broker to be able to offer an effective choice to the public. The minimum level of five agencies should ensure this.

Under section 44 the Minister may require brokers to have professional indemnity insurance. Of course all reputable brokers are already carrying such cover on grounds of commercial prudence. It is not the intention to impose a mandatory requirement until at least two years after the enactment of this legislation which will allow the market time to adjust and gear up to the new régime.

Section 45 requires insurance companies to check both before initial agency appointments are granted and on a continuing basis in respect of payment of commission, for compliance by an intermediary with the provisions of the Bill or for membership of a recognised broker body.

Skipping section 46 momentarily, if I may, section 47 obliges all intermediaries other than tied agents to keep a separate client bank account in respect of both life and non-life business. Intermediaries will be required to lodge premiums entrusted to them by the public to such client accounts.

Returning to section 46 — this requires intermediaries, other than tied agents, to hold a bond. The idea of the bond is that moneys from it can be drawn down as compensation to clients of the intermediary in the event of the intermediary's collapse. This is an important "safety net" for consumers. The way in which the bond will work is that all insurance brokers and agents with an annual "defined" turnover of £25,000 (i.e. where a minimum of £25,000 is handled directly by an intermediary and passes through the new obligatory separate client bank account), will be required to hold a bond. The bond level has been set at £25,000 for non-life, and at £25,000 or 25 per cent of defined turnover for life and composite intermediaries. The bond levels reflect the differing risks to which client moneys are exposed.

The necessary basic qualifications for agents (including tied agents) and the obligations on them to identify themselves clearly to clients are set out at section 48. One of these stipulations is that in future an insurance agent may not hold, in the case of both life and non-life insurance, more than four agencies in either category. This limitation is one of the features of the Bill which serves to distinguish agents from brokers and high-lights the more limited scope of the service which agents will be able to offer the public following its enactment.

The maintenance of a register of appointed intermediaries by insurance companies for the purposes of public inspection is the subject of section 49.

Section 50 clarifies the scope of agency in the case of both an agent and tied agent. An insurer is liable for his agent where the latter completes or assists a client in completing an insurance proposal. The terms of the section also make an insurance company entirely responsible for the insurance-related activities of its tied agents as if such tied agents were its employees.

This high level of an insurer's responsibility is maintained on consumer protection grounds in section 51 where a premium paid to an intermediary in respect of an accepted proposal or a policy of renewal is deemed to have been paid to the insurance company.

Section 52 places restrictions on an intermediary conviction of an offence arising out of his business activities while section 53 lists the circumstances which disqualify a person from acting as an intermediary. These provisions, I believe, are quite reasonable and prudent and are aimed at those who have proven their past actions that they do not have the necessary standards of professionalism, integrity or competence to act in a position of trust as insurance intermediaries.

Under section 54 the Minister can lay down codes of conduct for brokers and agents for observance in their dealings with the public or with insurance companies. I am aware that the existing broker bodies already lay down codes of conduct for their members and they are to be congratulated for their efforts. However, the codes proposed under this section will be applicable to all intermediaries.

Section 55 exempts from the scope of Part IV reinsurance business and travel agents and tour operators in so far as they sell insurance as part of overseas travel packages. This is to avoid a duplication of statutory supervision and bonding in respect of this type of business.

That completes Part IV of the Bill. When enacted, it will put in place a very comprehensive and structured system of regulation for intermediaries. It will also facilitate the differentiation by the public between independent brokers and more limited agents.

Part V is comprised of miscellaneous provisions. Section 56 sets out the procedures which will be followed in relation to suspension or revocation of an insurer's authorisation and provides for an appeal by insurers to the High Court.

Sections 57 and 58 concern the appointment and powers of authorised officers who may be appointed in order to obtain information for use by the Minister in exercising his functions under the Insurance Act. These powers are enabling only and I do not envisage that they will be called into use in any immediate context or on any widespread basis. The final section in the Bill sets a fee of £10 for inspection of the register of authorisations kept under section 21 of the Insurance Act, 1936.

I commend this Bill to the House.

The biggest problem we have in this country at present is the problem of unemployment. All policy areas should be examined to see if they can make a positive contribution to improving our national performance with regard to the creation of jobs. Employer' liability insurance is a major area in which the cost of creating jobs can be reduced. Credit has been taken for the improvement in the motor insurance market, but from information I have obtained there has been no equivalent improvement in the cost of employers' liability insurance or for public liability insurance. The level of premium charged for employers' or public liability insurance is a major disincentive to the creation of jobs.

In his contribution the Minister quoted figures which indicated that there had been a reduction in the cost of employers' liability insurance. The source of the figures is the Confederation of Irish Industry, whose integrity I would not wish to question at all, but I would draw the attention of the House to the fact that the Confederation of Irish Industry tends to represent the larger employers in terms of the number employed. I believe that the experience of the smaller employers is far from being one of improvement as far as employers' liability insurance is concerned.

Over the past few days I have been speaking to a number of brokers all of whom tell the tale of an improvement with regard to motor insurance but no equivalent improvement at all with regard to public liability insurance or employers' liability insurance. The brokers take the view that the improvement that has occurred with regard to motor insurance is due not so much to the measures taken directly by the Government, although I am sure these are part of the picture, but to the entry of a new company into that market — a company that was not underwriting motor business before. There has been no similar new entrant into the field of employers' liability and public liability insurance and the problem continues to be acute in that area.

I am aware, for example, of one small contractor who previously ran a business in England. He employed seven men and he paid an insurance premium for the seven men of £850. He transferred his business to Ireland and is now employing only two people but he has to pay an employers' liability insurance premium for his two employees of £4,000. He was paying only £850 for employers' liability insurance for seven people in Britain. Insurance premia like that which are directly related to employment actively discourage job creation. These premia are also reflected in the cost of all sorts of goods which we, the consumers, buy from small firms who have to pay such high premia for employers' liability insurance. There is a knock-on effect right throughout the economy.

The position is, as I have said, especially severe in this country for small employers. Experience in the United States and elsewhere shows that the small businesses are the most dynamic in the creation of jobs yet it is the small businesses that face the highest relative insurance premia in Ireland. I understand that the minimum premium that a person engaged in the building trade could expect to pay for employers' liability insurance for an employee would be £3,000 a year. Unless we do something about this we will have great difficulty in solving our unemployment problem: which requires radical action.

The level of premium is of course related to the level of awards. If the courts give high awards this attracts more people to make claims. If the awards were small, people might not bother to make claims. Thus it is a vicious circle; the higher the awards the greater the number of claims, one factor reinforces the other. The abolition of juries was supposed to have the effect of reducing the level of claims and awards. There is some evidence that it may not have this effect at all.

There are a number of things that can be done to reduce insurance premia and thereby assist in the creation of jobs. I will refer to things further on that have already been done or are in the course of action. I believe there is a strong case for changing substantially the provisions of section 2 of the Civil Liability (Amendment) Act, 1964. Under this section, in awarding damages a court shall not take any account of any other sum payable to the injured party in respect of the injury under, for example, a contract of insurance or any other gratuity that somebody may receive as a result of the injury. This essentially provides for the possibility of double payment. Surely this is not necessary and should be changed. Likewise, payments made under the social welfare code, to which the injured party is entitled, are disregarded entirely as if they were not being made in the settlement of the amount of the award for damages.

The whole system of arriving at decisions and setting the level of damages in regard to claims is extremely expensive and slow. I would suggest that we introduce a tribunal similar to the Criminal Injuries Tribunal or the Stardust Tribunal for quickly setting awards for injuries in a non-adversarial fashion or at least in as non-adversarial a fashion as possible. The tribunals I mentioned dealt with individual cases at about five times as fast a rate as does the High Court in the carrying out of normal business. A case was settled before one of those tribunals, to the satisfaction of all concerned, in half on hour before part time barristers who were sitting on these tribunals — I am talking about the Criminal Injuries Tribunal in this case. Cases were settled in half an hour that would take a whole day to settle in the High Court. If we could move over to such a system this would benefit everybody, claimants as well as insurers. Claimants would not have to wait as long for their money and they would not have to pay as much to get the award because there would not be the same heavy level of representation, if any, as there is before the courts at present. Insurers would also see matters settled more speedily and efficiently. If we could move in that direction everybody would gain.

It might be argued that difficulties would arise in a tribunal approach as long as the concept of fault is retained in determining whether or not damages are to be paid. I would point out that a tribunal format can be used even in dealing with cases of fault. In the case of the Criminal Injuries Tribunal, it was able to look at liability issues even where there was a fault involved because it had the responsibility, for example, of assessing, in the event of somebody suffering a criminal injury in an affray, the extent, if any, to which they had contributed to that situation. If they started a fight and they were injured their responsibility in the matter — their fault relative to the fault of the person who injured them — is assessed by the Criminal Injuries Tribunal and an appropriate deduction is made. The tribunal is able to look not just at the quantum of damages but also at the contributory factors which might reduce it. The retention of a fault-based insurance system is not in itself an obstacle to moving over to tribunals for the setting of awards in cases like this.

There is substantial evidence that many cases are settled by insurance companies on the basis of claims that are put to them even though the insurance company is fairly convinced that the claim is unfounded. Because it is a relatively small amount that is being claimed and they do not want the bother of having to go to court to prove that the claim is unfounded they settle the case. The cost to the insurance company of going to court and the possible risk that they might lose are such that they pay on the basis of claims made even though those claims are not necessarily well founded. That sort of thing would not happen if there was a tribunal because the tribunal would not be as expensive and there would be relatively less cost to both parties in dealing with claims for damages. If people felt that there was not a genuine case there would be no great disincentive to them in having that settled by a tribunal which would be doing the business pretty quickly anyway.

The problem with a tribunal of this kind is of course that it would not work if people had the right to appeal to the ordinary courts against any award from a tribunal with which they were not satisfied. To avoid this there would need to be a major change in the whole concept of civil liability. Ideally one might wish to introduce such changes only for certain categories of injury — for example, if one wanted, as I believe one should, to reduce the cost of creating work one might wish to start off by saying that we will have a tribunal to settle employers' and employees' liability insurance cases rather than the courts system. That would reduce the cost from every point of view. Constitutional difficulties might arise in doing that in the sense that it would be argued under the provisions of Article 40 of the Constitution that you could not treat one category of injury, just because it occurred in the workplace, differently from the same injury which occurred outside the workplace, allowing people access to the courts for one and access only to a tribunal for the other even though the injury was similar in its effect.

This is a matter that ought to be examined as a matter of priority by the Law Reform Commission to see if there are ways of introducing into the system a tribunal approach, possibly containing limitations on the amount of damages that can be awarded in respect of particular injuries in order to reduce the cost of employers' liability and thereby creating more jobs. One suggestion is that in the case of employers' liability insurance tort damages might be done away with and a State-run system of scaled compensation introduced. This would incorporate a tribunal. Damages would no longer be a justifiable issue. This might be necessary in that one cannot limit judges as one could limit a tribunal in matters of this kind.

Another alternative would be to introduce schemes under the Arbitration Acts. In other words, there would be an agreement to use arbitrators only rather than the courts to settle damages issues. Such schemes would of course have to be agreed between the employer and the employee in advance. It could be part of normal contracts of employment that damages in respect of industrial injuries would be settled by arbitration rather than by recourse to the courts and both parties would agree to forego their other normal constitutional rights of access to the court in order to reach agreement on the creation of a particular employment. That is something that also needs to be considered by the Minister in conjunction with the trade union movement and the employer interests.

Many people might claim that the trade union movement is interested only in its existing workforce and therefore anything that might reduce the possibility for them of obtaining substantial damages is something the trade union movement per se would not be prepared to go along with. I would take a different view. At the moment at least, the trade union movement is interested in getting the maximum number of members. The more people there are employed, the more potential trade unionists there are. If employers' liability insurance inhibits employment, it is adverse to the interests of trade unions because it results in a smaller pool of people who might be capable of becoming active trade union members. I hope the trade union movement would support measures to improve the position in regard to employers' liability insurance and reduce the cost of insurance.

This is not to say that there are not a great deal of other matters that could be undertaken to improve the position, such as the rigorous enforcement of the law in regard to safety at work. That is a matter which I do not think we need to refer to in this debate because, it is not a matter of controversy; it is simply a question of getting the legislation in place and there is common cause on that.

One should, however, not rest at that. There are other things that could be done such as those I have outlined so far. There is a lot to be said for awarding compensation to those who suffer injuries in the form of monthly or weekly annuities rather than in the form of a lump sum. An annuity would be more flexible. It would not have the arbitrary character of a lump sum where a view has to be taken about potential lost earnings for the next 50 years and these incorporated into a sum of money that is given now. It is possible that the annuity could be either increased or decreased depending on the circumstances of the injured party, and it would obviously have to be indexed linked. It could take account, over time, of the evolving medical situation as related to the original injury.

Obviously insurance companies might not be too happy with a system of annuities in substitution for lump sums. Their auditors would have difficulty in saying exactly what liability they faced in respect of a particular annuity because they would not know how long the individual in question was going to live, whereas they would have certainty and finality in regard to a lump sum once it was paid. For this reason some have argued that the State is the only body that could underwrite a system of annuities if we were to move over to annuities in place of lump sums as a basis for compensation for injury. This is a matter that ought to be examined closely by the Law Reform Commission or by the Minister and the Minister for Justice.

We must also relate this entire area of insurance — what we are broadly speaking about now, the issue of employers' liability insurance — and insurance generally to the creation of the Single European market in 1992. If Irish employers' liability and public liability insurance costs are more expensive than those in competitor countries we will lose business on export markets and on our home market. The legislation we have before us tightens up the supervision of insurance companies. However, is there not a danger that if companies from other countries can sell insurance in Ireland — as they will be able to very soon in relation to mass risks, that is, very large risks — they will be able to cut prices relative to insurers here if the level of the supervisory requirement in their state is less severe than the one that applies in Ireland? Is there not such a danger indeed in the entire financial area that competition in the single market will take place on the basis of what I would describe as competitive laxity of supervision? Perhaps, to use the old adage, bad money will drive out the good in the single market of 1992 in so far as financial services are concerned.

There is a problem because the EC proposes that the supervision of insurance companies, and indeed other financial institutions, will be the responsibility of the individual member state in which the company has its original home; there will be home country control. This will apply even if the overwhelming bulk of its business is actually being written in other member states. Will there be sufficiently rigorous standards of supervision applied uniformly throughout the EC and validated by somebody independent of the national supervisory authorities to ensure that there are no dangers of competitive laxity of supervision? Let us remember that the market will be an extremely competitive one. Once they are not able to keep out people from other member states, supervisers in individual member states if they continue to be more rigorous in requirements as to the amount of money, solvency margins, the amount of information that must be required and all sorts of things like that than people in a neighbouring state who are writing business into this state, will be accused by the people they are supervising, whose home, if one likes, is in this state, of putting them at a relative disadvantage vis-a-vis other people with whom they are competing on the high street and whose home country is more lenient. Is there not, therefore, a real risk of competitive laxity of supervision?

I would like to inform the House that this is not a concern that is confined to myself. At a recent conference I attended the Italian Minister for Finance, Signor Colombo referred specifically to the problem of the possibility of competitive laxity of supervision — that was not the term he used but it was what he meant. It is something we need to look at very closely in regard to this Bill. The Minister's speech is extremely deficient in that it does not give an outline of the relative safeguards and provisions in the insurance law of other member states in respect of each of the requirements that are being introduced in this Bill. We should know, in respect of every one of those provisions that have been made, how they compare with the provisions in Britain and other states with which we are competing, because otherwise we do not know whether we are putting our insurers at a relative advantage or disadvantage by these requirements.

Insurance is an area in which substantial jobs can be created if we can ensure that there is a genuinely level playing field and that Irish insurance companies operate in an efficient fashion. How will our insurance companies be able to compete against overseas competition in the light of the handicaps they have now? Other countries do not impose handicaps similar to the ones I am now about to advert to. First, our companies suffer exchange control restrictions which require them to get consent to invest money overseas in order to maximise returns. That delays them in obtaining the best possible return relative to competitors. It is not that they do not get the consent, they have to apply for it. They lose time and thus money.

Secondly, Irish insurers have to pay the ICI-PMPA levy, part of which goes to rescue a company which writes a lot of business overseas, to keep that company going so that, inter alia, overseas customers of the ICI do not lose business. Therefore, the Irish insurance market, the Irish consumer of insurance, is providing a service to all of those who were customers of the ICI in London. Does that not raise a general problem of asking ourselves if, for instance, in the event of a company, based in Portugal developing a huge business in this country and then collapsing, the Portuguese authorities would stand behind that company and its Irish customers in order to keep it going and afloat in the same way as the Irish authorities did in the case of the ICI collapse? If not, is there to be uncertainty? Should there not be a clear policy in Europe in regard to this matter? The policy should either be that all companies which go bust shall go bust and no one shall pay anything or if there is to be genuine intermingling of business between one country and another, there should be a common system of compensation or maintenance in operation. It does not seem feasible to think that a small country in which a huge business is developed would have the resources to keep that business afloat in the event of it collapsing. That is something we need to look at. What would be the future of levies of the kind we mention — I mentioned the ICI-PMPA levy — in a Europe where there was freedom to provide services right across all boundaries?

Thirdly, Irish insurance companies have to pay corporation tax at a rate which is eight points higher than the equivalent British rate, yet they are supposed to compete with them. Fourthly, they have to pay a 1 per cent levy on insurance premia which is designed to raise money for that most reputable person, the Minister for Finance. Fifthly, and this probably applies in other countries also, there is a requirement to localise reserves, in other words, to keep some of the money in the home country. That is not a great problem at present because quite good returns can be earned by keeping one's money in Ireland and depositing it with the Minister for Finance but, arguably, there are better returns to be earned in London where interest rates are higher. Therefore, the returns on the investment income of an insurance company based in Britain, if it can obtain the returns on the London market in respect of its reserves, are better than the returns on the investment income of a company located in Dublin because it is confined in respect of its reserves to the Dublin market where interest rates are lower. Assuming there is no exchange risk, that creates a possible disadvantage in regard to the optimisation of returns, in regard to investment income, which in turn puts the company at a disadvantage in respect of writing insurance business.

Those are five areas on which in an open market it could be argued that our companies are liable to be at a disadvantage. The Minister might indicate in his response how he sees these being overcome and how he sees the Irish insurance industry developing as an export earner between now and the end of the century. That should be the perspective within which the Minister should be looking at the insurance industry at present. My strongest criticism of the Government in regard to their campaign in respect of 1992, and this is a criticism I would direct particularly at the Department of Industry and Commerce, is that it is manufacturing obsessed at present. There is a roadshow going around which consists mainly of agencies which are concerned with helping manufacturing industry, yet there is no similar campaign as regards how the insurance industry or the service sector can develop, respond to or face difficulties from the open market. It is all geared towards manufacturing, yet the bigger difficulties and opportunities are not in manufacturing at all but in the service sector. Nineteen ninety-two arrived for the manufacturing sector in 1966 when the Free Trade Agreement was signed. I do not think 1992 is going to make that much difference to manufacturing, yet that is what the campaign is all about. It should be about how industries such as the insurance industry can develop in the period up to and following 1992.

It seems that insurance is an area in which Ireland should be aiming to gain market share in Europe. Insurance does not suffer from the infrastructural disadvantages of remoteness from the market, cost of transport and so forth, which affect manufacturing. Insurance can be written over the phone from any one place to another, unlike manufactured goods. It should be a big development area for employment in Ireland. Unfortunately, I fear it will not be. The Irish insurance industry has a protectionist outlook. They have the same attitudes of mind which manufacturers had in the fifties. They want protection from outside competition and the Department of Industry and Commerce go along with this, unfortunately. I know from experience that there is always a tendency to want to get exceptions from EC directives when we should be taking the view, and responsibility for this lies ultimately with the Minister, that it was a mistake in retrospect not to have said from the beginning that we would accept full freedom of services in the insurance area instead of trying to protect ourselves. We have not protected anything in the long run, we have simply reinforced our conservative attitude of mind in the insurance industry when we should have had an expansionist attitude of mind. We should see insurance as a major job growth area. The Government need to get together with the industry to ask how the opportunities of 1992 will be exploited for job creation.

The recent EC deal whereby big companies seeking insurance can shop around in Europe for cover, the so-called mass risks, whereas small companies are confined to the home market — they must deal with the companies established here — is not one which is good for small firms relative to large firms. I question whether it is good for a country like Ireland which has a small insurance market and a proportionately large amount of small firms to have a system whereby small firms in big countries have access to the big companies whereas small firms in this country only have access to the few companies which are established here. This deal is putting small companies in small countries at a relative disadvantage to small companies in large countries and to larger companies in small countries. I ask whether it is in the national interest that we should have taken that position. Of course it is not too late to change. The fact that it has been agreed to and we have obtained the exemption does not require us to use it. I think that this is something the Minister might discuss with his colleagues to see whether the firms he is trying to promote in the science and technology area would be better served by being able to shop around more widely for insurance than they have to do at present as a result of the agreement reached in regard to the lack of competition for smaller risks.

This Bill proposes to introduce fees for insurance company supervision. I note that this would only cover the cost of supervision. I would be interested to know how those fees will be differentiated. Will they be differentiated by individual companies? In other words, will a company that is giving a lot of trouble have to pay a larger fee than a company that does not have to answer any questions because its accounts are always perfect or will it be the same fee for all? If it will be the same fee for all, then a good company will be subsidising a bad one. Are such fees charged in other member states and, if not, are we not putting our companies at a relative disadvantage vis-à-vis other states?

It seems to me that the reasonable thing to do would be to have a Europeanwide scale of fees for supervisory services, the same fee in all member states. We should have this matter regulated so that no country will be able to give artificial subsidies to its insurance industry competing in the European market by not charging a fee for supervision while other countries charge a fee. The unilateral introduction of fees, it seems to me, has potential for putting those paying them, and the countries charging them, at a relative disadvantage in the market. In itself it will not make that much difference but when added to the other disadvantages I mentioned it could make a difference.

Obviously, as the Minister pointed out, the insurance industry is the biggest customer of our legal system. Without the insurance industry our legal eagles would, perhaps, be somewhat less employed than they are. It is no harm to look at our court system in the context of 1992, as was pointed out recently. I quote from a paper presented by Commissioner Peter Sutherland to a seminar in Dublin on the legal implications of 1992, sponsored by the Irish Centre for European Law. Commissioner Sutherland said:

Finally let me develop a further general consideration. If, as I have argued, the law will become increasingly international, then there will inevitably develop forum shopping.

In other words, people will choose whether to have their dispute settled in an Irish court, in an Italian court or a French court because many contracts will now involve parties in each of those countries, and maybe more. Commissioner Sutherland went on to ask:

How does the Irish legal system compare, as a system for the provision of rapid, efficient and authoritative judgments with other legal systems? How do Irish legal costs compare? What is to prevent the Irish legal system from becoming a centre of excellence within the European framework?

To illustrate the likely opportunites for this type of issue to be relevant, where people would decide what court to do their business in, I quote from another paper presented at the same seminar by John Temple Lang who stated:

If a manufacturer is liable, under the EC Directive on liability for defective products, for a serious defect in widely sold goods, [perhaps sold in five or six member states] it may be sued in at least 12 different jurisdictions (there are more jurisdictions in the Community than there are member states).

If that is the case there will be increased pressure for the harmonisation both of substantive law and of procedure in member states. Many people will rightly regard it as absurd that the amount of damages recovered for the same injury caused by the same product produced by the same firm might be five times as much as if the case was heard in an Irish court as it would be if the case was heard in a British court.

I am sorry to interrupt the Deputy but I am anxious to ensure that he does not stray from the Bill under discussion by delving into the legal system.

This is directly related to insurance because the cost of insurance arises from decisions of courts. The Minister referred extensively in his introduction to the legal system.

I appreciate that and if the Deputy's remarks are related he will be relevant.

In my view my remarks are entirely relevant. I will not go on much longer on this.

The Deputy should not stray too far.

I will not. The factor I have just referred to needs to be looked at. In looking for improvements in the court system, which the Minister is doing in order to improve the cost of insurance, he might also consider putting to his colleague, the Minister for Justice, to the judges and the lawyers, that in the Europe of 1992 they will be competing for business in international contracts with court systems in other countries. There is no reason why our court system should not potentially be an earner of foreign exchange just as our insurance or manufacturing sectors are. That is something the Minister should consider. In this context I should like to ask why the Minister for Justice has been so slow in introducing improved provisions for pre-trial procedures. About 18 months ago we were told that legislation was being prepared. I understand that this will be dealt with in a court officers Bill but I should like to know when it will be introduced.

Section 20 deals with the qualifications of directors and managers. In other EC directives insurers seeking authorisation are required to submit details of proposed directors and managers and the Minister does not authorise the insurer if he has an objection to any such person proposed. The Minister may decide not to grant an authorisation if he is unhappy with the suitability of such a person. I should like to know how this will work. Will the Minister say he does not like a person because he has a fast manner or that he does not look like the type of person that should be dealing with insurance? Will he decide on the basis that the suit of the individual has not been pressed or on his casual attitude to life? Will the Minister say that because a person does not have a degree he could not possibly be an insurer. Will he say that if a person is not a barrister or have some other degree he could not be an insurer?

Inevitably there will have to be some criteria but what will they be when deciding whether an individual is suitable or not? It seems to me that there are all types of possibilities for extremely subjective judgments to be made and those judgments will not be open to question by anybody. It may be said that Deputy Enright was suitable to conduct insurance but that Deputy Cullen was not. Will Deputy Cullen be ruled out because he may have had a string of debts? If that is the case it will be too late. If we wait for a person to run up debts before we say he or she is not suitable we are slamming the door after the horse has bolted. Presuming that this section is intended as a preventive measure what criteria will be used? If the Minister cannot answer that, can he indicate what criteria are used in the other member states where such a provision exists?

There is another provision in this Bill with regard to the display of the level of premium that is being charged. We have a tendency in this house to make laws which we subsequently do not enforce. We are great law makers but not great law enforcers. Who will enforce this? Will it be the Minister for Industry and Commerce and the insurance section of his Department? There are not any people in the insurance section of the Department who regularly travel around the country. They are all too busy with their quill pens and candles, reading the accounts submitted to them, that they have not the time. I will not say they do not have the inclination because that would be a slur, but they do not travel around and inspect insurance offices in Kenmare or Cahir and so on. If they are not going to enforce this, who is? If the Director of Consumer Affairs is to do it, will the Minister get in extra staff to deal with the extra responsibility? At the moment other price display provisions are not well enforced. I am not criticising the Minister as I know he has not the staff. There are display orders with regard to drink prices which are more honoured in the breach than in the observance. I hope these provisions will be properly enforced.

The speech delivered here today has a remarkable resemblence to the Second Stage speech in the Seanad debate of 8 October 1987. Some of the good lines have even been reproduced from the previous speech. The script writer has not changed. One could almost believe that a word processor had been used. However, one section in the last speech was dropped in this speech and that was the statement made at column 262 of the Seanad debate of 8 October 1987 which said:

The Minister for the Environment plans to introduce new legislation to strengthen the road traffic code and to deal more effectively with certain aspects of uninsured driving and other offences.

What has happened to that legislation? Why has that reference been dropped from the speech? Has the Minister given up? Is the Minister for the Environment so busy coping with other problems, perhaps deciding whether a sports hall in Westport is more deserving than one in Castlebar, that he has no time to devote to road traffic legislation?

We are dealing now with a Bill which is the responsibility of the Minister for Industry and Commerce.

I have been advised that that section is still in the speech. What is the status of that legislation? We now have compulsory product liability insurance. I understand from discussions with some brokers that it is difficult enough to get employers' liability insurance, that some companies are prepared to give employers' liability insurance but they will not write product liability. Given that this is a new scene, will the Minister outline the availability of product liability insurance and will he give an indication of the relative cost of the product liability insurance that is being offered here for certain products as against product liability insurance being offered for the same products in other member states? Is there a danger that this will be a further disadvantage, costwise, to Irish industry? I also understand that there are problems with regard to certain categories of insurance. I am told, for instance, that wood working insurance is impossible to obtain here and that the only place a woodworker will get insurance is from Lloyds of London. I also understand that difficulties have arisen with regard to the insurance of sports and community halls and so on. One company was operating block insurance for this sort of business but that company is not in the market anymore and that type of business is now more selective. Will the Minister report on the availability of insurance in that area in his reply?

I would also raise questions with regard to the relative burdens imposed on brokers as against agents under the provisions of this Bill. If a person selling insurance operates for fewer than four life insurance companies and four non-life insurance companies, he can qualify as an agent for whom the requirements are less onerous, whereas if he operates for more than four of each, he must fulfil the more onerous requirements that apply to brokers. It has been represented to me that many people will opt to become agents. Brokers will shed one or two companies and will thereby get themselves below the relevant limit. A distortion of that kind is something that must be avoided. Has the Minister considered having some sort of sliding scale of requirements whereby there would not be a point at which it would be advantageous to artifically shed one or two companies in order to qualify for substantially less onerous requirements in regard to bonding and so forth?

This is very important and useful legislation. It is non-contentious but it affords an opportunity to raise a number of issues of a more general relevance. The Insurance Act of 1978 contains a provision with regard to guarantees. The reference here is essentially to export credit guarantees which the Minister may grant. The Minister may stand behind certain guarantees. Do I understand that as a result of 1992 the Minister will have to offer the facilities of the 1978 Act to insurers operating or coming from any part of the EC? I may have misunderstood but I understand that at the moment under the provisions of the present Act the Minister only grants such insurance guarantees in respect of insurers resident here. Will the Minister clarify that? If there is a requirement to change our law in that regard to comply with EC requirements, it would be desirable to do it in this Bill rather than in a new Bill later.

The Progressive Democrats welcome the introduction of this Bill. This is very important primary legislation. The Bill will have a direct impact on the insurance industry and on those who seek insurance. For a long number of years we have been aware of the high cost of insurance. This has been referred to already in the House today, as have the damaging effects on individuals and on industries. Recent legislation that has gone through this House has begun the process of seriously restructuring many of the areas that led to the high cost, most notably in the motor insurance sector.

There are some very important changes occurring in this area and there are some points that I would like to make. There is no doubt that we all welcome the lowering of premiums in the motor insurance area which is long overdue. There are at the moment legitimate concerns that in some instances premiums may be dropping and halving too fast. I fully appreciate that it is not the Minister's position, nor should it be, to interfere with legitimate and fair competition in the marketplace. We would all agree that this would be a healthy and necessary objective. Competition for the sake of competition, without due regard to the specific type of business can be dangerous and could ultimately lead to serious problems once again in the motor insurance sector.

We are all agreed that the recent legislative changes will have an impact on the insurance industry — the Minister referred earlier today to the Courts Bill and the abolition of the use of civil juries in personal injury and fatal accident cases will indeed have an impact, as the motor insurance industry has been telling us for a long number of years, on the high costs of court awards. However, this is only very recent legislation and whilst one might expect a move to begin in the area of lower premiums, a stampede is occurring in certain areas in the need for new business, perhaps not paying sufficient attention to where the industry is going and what costs are being incurred by certain insurance companies.

I question whether the large overnight reductions that we are witnessing in some instances are based more on hope than what might really be happening in the marketplace. People are too soon anticipating the possible benefits that may accrue in the time ahead and this is very dangerous. I am not saying that this is occurring throughout the insurance industry but it is something which is occurring in certain areas and in certain companies. The Department should look very closely into this matter. The type of legislative changes that have occurred should have a more long term effect. They are not designed nor, were they expected to have, immediate dramatic reduction such as we are seeing at present. I want the Minister to examine this area and ensure that proper financial stability is maintained at all levels. I believe that the reduction in premiums should be a more staged and planned operation, occurring over a longer period of time, based on what exactly is occurring in the marketplace rather than what one might want to occur. It is of vital importance that the insurance industry remain on a solid footing and that none of the debacles of the past be allowed to repeat themselves.

I am sure that the Minister will agree that in the present state of change very close monitoring by his Department is necessary. I am concerned, for instance, at some insurance companies operating who seem to be totally unconcerned about the track record of their newer clients. This begs the question, is it business at any price? The consequences of this kind of attitude getting out of control are all too obvious and all the solid legislation being introduced in many areas would be for nought.

One of the great problem areas here today — this has also been referred to — is the cost of public liability insurance. I have no doubt that this cost factor has greatly inhibited many new young and fledgling businesses from getting off the ground. I believe that it has even dissuaded many new and young entrepreneurs from starting up businesses. We all agree that the greatest single probem here is the question of unemployment and job creation. Any area that could possibly hamper job creation must be tackled vigorously. The Minister has mentioned the drop in payroll costs with regard to public liability insurance, but is this sufficient? The whole question of the hindrances that are in place in the marketplace against job creation must be tackled individually. Any sector that is seen to impact on this area must be seriously examined.

It is a fair comment to make that public liability insurance costs are not dropping as one would expect and that the type of competition that will be available in the near future will be substantial. I do not understand how in certain countries public liability insurance can be at a fraction of the costs here today. This is having a serious effect on businesses. One could highlight many areas where public liability insurance is practically unobtainable, or if you can get a quotation for public liability insurance the cost is so prohibitive as not to warrant going into that business at all. I have examples, as I am sure others have. Shipping, for instance, is a very good example having regard to the difficulties of getting a stevedoring company to operate in this country. One simply cannot get public liability insurance and this is impingeing on certain ports which have gone through tough times in the last number of years, not least the port in my own constituency of Waterford, in their attempts to get back on their feet. This is a serious factor with regard to the creation of much needed employment in this area. I shall not highlight example after example, but the examples are there. This is a fundamental issue that must be tackled when looking at the whole question of insurance.

I acknowledge that in recent years the standards of safety on the factory floor have greatly improved but much more can be achieved. There is no doubt that many industrial accidents could be avoided by adopting much higher safety practices. This should be one of the main priorities of any union operating here. Unions are primarily about gaining work and protecting the existing work of their members. Surely it is in their interests to strive for the best possible safe in-work practices. That is a prerequisite for creating jobs. I have heard very little comment on this matter from the unions when they begin to discuss and negotiate and seek to improve standards. There is very little emphasis on the area of safety within companies.

Because of the introduction of many multinational companies into this country in recent years, standards have improved and many Irish companies have sought also to improve their standards. One could imagine, if the highest possible standards were attained in this area, the dramatic effect that this would have on insurance costs. What is often neglected or overlooked is the fact that it is preventative measures that can have the largest impact on reducing premiums.

The other factor, as we are all too aware, is the people who do not pay insurance at all. This has been a huge concern over the last number of years and has been the greatest contributory factor in the raising of premiums in the motor insurance business here today. Driving without motor insurance is simply unacceptable and cannot be tolerated at any level. Efforts have been made in the past seriously to tackle this problem and the introduction of the insurance type tax disc is a step in the right direction. A high profile by the Garda Síochána is always welcome here. I have noticed in the recent past that, given all the strains on their resources, they seem to be paying much attention to this question in recent weeks, having been stopped on a number of different roads throughout the country in the last fortnight. This is to be commended and certainly helps in catching those who are not paying insurance.

Those who are obeying the law and paying insurance premiums are subsidising all those who flout the law and pay no attention to public safety and standards. These expect everybody else to carry the can for them. They must be rooted out of the system and the penalties to the full letter of the law implemented. There should be a mandatory jail sentence for anybody here who drives without insurance. Any excuses that I have heard over the last number of years, from people coming to me seeking help, have been unsatisfactory. There is no satisfactory answer. If you want to drive on our roads, you pay your insurance. In my opinion there is no other debate or argument that would suffice.

The ceasing of this practice will be the greatest single factor in helping to reduce insurance premiums. Carelessness and an uncaring attitude in the workplace must also be rooted out. Improvements in this area and better standards would ultimately lead to better productivity, better company atmosphere, better products and better profits and more employees. These things are part of the added value of industrial success that is continually talked about nowadays. It is no longer true that the cheapest product equates to the best value. In the changing world there are many more factors which now equate for value for money and this is as relevant to the insurance industry as to any other industry in the country.

The Minister has also referred in his speech to the regulation on the number of counsel. This is obviously a step in the right direction and I hope the Bar will see fit to completely regulate itself in this area and that no further action will be necessary. This can only enhance the cost of insurance and the cost of claims and what the public have to face. One of the important matters which has been referred to today is the book of quantum of damages. This is an urgent requirement in this country. In my lifetime in the Dáil — which is not very long — it has been talked about and I am sure it has been talked about in the preceding years. It is obvious that without a proper book of quantum of damages it is virtually impossible to get some kind of a regualtory measure into what levels of insurance payments, in terms of findings in the courts, should be paid out. This system operates in many other countries and is very satisfactory. In one sense it may not be the total answer but it goes along way down the road to speeding up the claims where serious delays are involved. This system is operated in the UK. There is an onus on those involved in the Bar and in the Incorporated Law Society to produce a book of quantum of damages. I agree with the Minister firmly that it is not up to the State to go ahead in this area. This has been done in many other countries by the professions themselves. In dealing with this Bill today the message should go out that this is urgently required and that we would expect action in this area as soon as possible.

The system of pre-trial procedures has been referred to. I do not see anything happening in that regard though it has been mentioned constantly. It is an obvious factor that could be dealt with before a case comes to trial. The enormous amount of time and delays involved could be avoided and the costs involved would be substantially reduced. Consequently, insurance premium costs would in turn be substantially reduced. These seem the more logical factors. It is a question now of moving into the real phase of actually acting in these areas. I think we will get fed up of coming back into the Dáil if we are to continually repeat these requests and refer to them as if something is happening. We want to see action in these areas and the action can be brought about by the people involved in the business but pressure from the Government could also help to speed up these matters.

I would not agree with the point mentioned earlier by Deputy Bruton regarding the payment of claims by annuity. It would be a discriminating way of paying insurance claims. After all high insurance claims indicate that somebody has been very severely injured and is incapable of earning a living to their full potential— as they were before the accident — and in many cases have to spend large sums of money in either refurbishing their home or buying a mode of transport which they may have to operate if they are to be effective within society. It would be very difficult to put in place a structure as to who should get what, as to where they should get it and when they should get it. I can see the point which is being driven at here, the certain advantages that could occur in that area, but there would need to be serious exploration as to how this would be structured if it was to be successful. Otherwise, it could lead to very serious problems. One must not forget that the change in the financial and insurance world in the last number of years has led to a huge impact in the type and range of facilities available to people in insurance, financing and so on.

Most people who receive large sums of money by way of settlement nowadays do not fritter needlessly the windfall, if that is what one would call it. Nowadays, people take sound advice and the moneys are properly invested to provide for their future as was originally intended for the funds in the first place.

This Bill has seen many changes since it was introduced and there will probably be many more amendments before it is passed by this House. Section 3 is an important provision. It lays down the deterrents which will make it unattractive for an individual or a company to seek to play outside the rules. I wonder if the penalties and the criteria are sufficient but that is something we will deal with on Committee Stage. It is only right that any individual working within a company who knowingly breaks the law should be brought to account. It is also important that the Minister and his Department should be rigorous in ensuring that no false declarations or reports are made and that if such have been committed, the Minister is single-minded in regard to employing the full letter of the law.

Section 12 is the key to the question of whether an insurance company is running its business efficiently or is running into major problems. There is another area that could be covered in this section which relates to what losses the company are forecasting in underwriting in the immediate years ahead. Are the figures realistic? Are they based on what is happening in the marketplace at present and are they based on the realities of what is happening within the framework of that company?

At Question Time today I sought to question the Minister and to highlight what I believe is an individual case where serious questions can be raised concerning the long term planning and financial stability of some sectors of the insurance business. I think I have said enough on this area and I hope there will be a response when the Minister replies to this debate.

It is of crucial importance that premiums must cover the predicted losses at any given time as a central part of planning and operating any insurance company. Sections 14 and 15 of the Bill which deal with the separation of assets and liabilities attributable to life assurance business is a very important step. It makes for a much cleaner and sounder business if the funds are representing the life assurance aspect of the business and, indeed, if the liabilities can be seen and that this fund must be maintained separately and not used for other purposes. The next number of sections dealing with the Minister's power to intervene and receive information are especially important. Section 18 deals with the Minister's power to intervene in cases of doubtful solvency. This is a section from which no Minister will take any joy in having to implement and the vigilance of his Department at an earlier stage will have a major impact on whether the Minister has to take some of the other steps laid out in this section. It is important, if such action is necessary, that the Minister acts to utilise the powers given to him in this area. It is also important that the Minister and the Department should be fully briefed of what is happening in the individual companies. It is preferable to act before a company goes into insolvency. If the Department are vigilant and active, jobs can be saved, the company could be rescued or sold as a going concern or, perhaps, taken over by another company.

These are factors which put an onus on the Department of Industry and Commerce to ensure that at all times they are fully briefed on what is happening. If they suspect that something is wrong they should not be afraid, in the interest of jobs, in the interests of the public and in the interests of the insurance industry, to take action where necessary. I have no doubt that they would always have the full support of the House in acting in that manner.

Section 20 is important from the point of view that many of the problems which ultimately arise in the insurance business could be avoided if due care is taken in the appointment of directors and managers. I do not believe that the definition of "qualified person" is sufficient to ensure that the best possible people are appointed. I would query the criteria in this area. Who decides what level of qualifications an individual should have? Does he have to be a member of one of the insurance associations? Must he have some degree — an accountancy qualification or a legal qualification — or would the Minister look at his track record in business, or where he has been active before and what business he had been involved in. I suggest that the latter is at least a clear method of helping to define whether a person is suitable. If it is shown that the person in previous activities, either as a director of another company or in a different business has failed to meet all the criteria demanded of him in that area, then he should automatically be disqualified from getting into insurance business. The Minister must clarify this situation, for his own sake as much as for the sake of the rest of us in this House, so that there will not be conflict in this area. As I said, prevention, in all businesses and not just in the insurance business, is better than cure.

The question of reinsurance is difficult to deal with legislatively but some attempt has been made to do so in this legislation. Of course, a greater proportion of underwriting reinsurance is carried out by international firms but we have to give more attention to this aspect of the Bill on Committee Stage. The incorporation into legislation of a minimum paid up share capital of £500,000 will further help to regulate the insurance industry and put it on a firmer and sounder financial footing.

In section 25 the Minister is trying to revamp an area of insurance, that is, industrial assurance business, which has largely been overtaken in the market place. Modern awareness of the different types of insurance available, which are now heavily advertised in the mass media, has brought about important and worthwhile changes in emphasis in insurance for the individual. This type of insurance, as it is constituted, will probably continue to decline and may well fade out in its present form during the coming years. I am not saying that this is a bad insurance or that there is something wrong with it but I think that the style of this insurance is probably outdated and it is within the insurance industry's brief to see how this type of insurance could best operate in the future. The Minister has introduced some legislative measures which will help the industry to make changes in this area but these may only be cosmetic in many ways and may not deal fully with an area of insurance which is perhaps out of date when compared to the other types of insurance available at present.

The primary concern of any individual when taking up insurance is, of course, to get the best possible return when the policy reaches its maturity. Both the collection and management of this type of insurance are difficult and outdated. The move by the Minister to put the Industrial Credit Corporation and Fóir Teoranta on a similar footing is a worthwhile step, as is the section dealing with friendly societies and closing off possible abuse of their position under existing legislation. Limiting the amount to be paid from the insurance compensation fund to 65 per cent or £650,000 is, of course, welcome and puts a limitation on the exposure to the fund. I will deal further with this section on Committee Stage.

The payment of commissions by insurers which is dealt with in Part III of the Bill is an area in which the insurance industry have failed in many ways to take enough regulatory action. All the incentives, whether on a commission basis or by some other benefit, are of course, ultimately borne by the insured person and the desire for increased business at any price in some instances has certainly left this area open to abuse. This Part has been dealt with by other speakers and it puts down a fair market to the insurance industry that very definite criteria must be adhered to in this area and that standards should not be allowed to fall. After all, in some cases the investment individuals make in this area is the largest and most important they will make in securing their future. While it is desirable to have competition and for people to want to succeed in their chosen areas they must bear in mind that they are dealing with the lives and futures of people and they should not be allowed to run riot with the gimmicks that may be used to attract business. This part of the Bill gives a clear indication to the insurance industry that their card is being well marked as to the type of response that is necessary from them. The less Government interference there is in all areas the better and it is my sincere wish that the Minister will not have to take action in the future to bring this situation under control. It could be easily handled by the industry. Therefore, there is no doubt that it is in the industry's interests that they handle their business in a professional manner.

Part IV of the Bill which deals with the regulation of insurance intermediaries is an important step forward and while the vast majority of people who operate in this area of business do so in a very professional and proper manner it is only right to point out that there are some who have left an awful lot to be desired in the standards they set for themselves. In many cases these are not the only people that individuals seeking insurance may come in contact with and it is how most of their knowledge of the insurance business and of the type of business they are seeking is gained. The insurance industry recognise the need for the raising of standards in this area and I think it would be of great benefit to both the industry and to the public if there was one official recognised body who could speak with one voice for the insurance brokers. I am not attempting here this evening to tell the insurance brokers how to run their business but it is a fair comment, and applies to all service industries, that it is a much better system when one can speak with one voice through one authority or organisation. I believe this would be of benefit primarily to the insurance industry and would have an knock-on effect for everybody else. Many provisions were introduced on Committee Stage in the Seanad and the intent of many of these provisions are obvious and are a step in the right direction. However, this part of the Bill will have to be dealt with in more detail on Committee Stage.

In general I welcome this Bill because legislation in this area has been badly needed. I believe that the insurance industry in general will be a constant feature of the Department of Industry and Commerce during the next few years. However, now is the time for all possible steps to be taken by the insurance industry to ensure that they are in a position to deal with all of the competition they may face in the future and to ensure that they operate according to the highest possible standards. Of course, the effects of 1992 are of great concern and there is no doubt that there will be serious consequences for the insurance industry as well as for many other sectors. I fundamentally disagree with Deputy Bruton that 1992 will have little impact on manufacturing industry. I think it will and it is right that the Department of Industry and Commerce are making efforts to bring this message to manufacturing industry throughout the country. However, he is right that there is — and this has been pointed out to me by a number of people — a lack of effort on behalf of the Department in the service industry sector area. It has been constantly stated in this House that the area of greatest job creation potential is probably the service industry sector; yet we are not bringing home to this area the prospect of what will happen in 1992. I believe that at this stage legal firms in this country should be seeking to form linkages with many legal companies throughout Europe. This makes a lot of sense because there is going to have to be a level of regulation above that which pertains in individual countries. There is no way one could operate in this market if regulations operating in individual countries are the ones that will apply. This simply would not work. One may have a single unified market in name but in practice one certainly will not. I do not see how the insurance industry could operate without an overall body being responsible and answerable for setting the regulations — whether it is the European Parliament, the Commission or whoever. Certainly regulations must apply fairly and equally across the board. Of course, Ireland will be more exposed than most of the larger countries to competition from abroad. If these major companies are allowed into the country and they run into trouble we would be more exposed to the losses that may be incurred by them than other countries would be if the same happened to an Irish company operating in their market. There would be a serious, unfair situation operating in the market if overall regulatory legislation was not laid down at EC level.

The uptake of what I see happening in the EC with regard to the impact of insurance on all businesses is very slow. I do not believe this reality is coming across fast enough. There is an onus on the industry, and on all the industries in this area, not to wait for the Minister or somebody else to give them the green light. They should be active in the marketplace. That will be the key to success. The Government and everyone in this House will be creating the environment to help them do these things but it is essential that the business people, and the Department in particular, reassess their activities in the service sector and take note of the message which is being brought home from Europe which is relevant to the insurance industry.

I would like to join with other speakers in commending the Minister for bringing forward what Deputy Bruton described as important and useful legislation. I would like to comment on some of the points raised by previous speakers. Deputy Bruton made a lot of play about the suggestion to set up a tribunal. He made it sound very simple and logical to take such a step. I am sure the Minister will deal with the specifics of that suggestion, but as a newcomer to this House I want to ask a very simple question — maybe I am naive to ask it — if this move was so simple and logical, why did Deputy Bruton not take it when he had the opportunity? I do not want to be negative, but in my view that is a legitimate question.

There was a little carping criticism about the similarities between the Seanad speech and today's presentation. Since both speeches are dealing with the same topic, I would expect there to be similarities. I do not think it is legitimate to continue to ask childish stupid questions about what the Minister for the Environment might be doing in different towns in Mayo. That is not helping to get legislation through the House. That kind of codology should have been stopped long ago.

Deputy Cullen made a number of points which were important. In the past one of them came up very often, that a mandatory jail sentence be imposed on non-insured drivers. At first glance that seems like a very good thing to do because this is a very serious anti-social crime. Bearing in mind the fact that there is changed thinking in that area and that efforts are being made to keep people out of jail but having them do community work instead, the Minister's suggestion, that cars being driven without insurance would be impounded is a more practical answer to this problem. This would be the responsibility of the Minister for the Environment. This, I am sure, would meet with public agreement. I accept that, when a person is very badly injured in an accident and when the driver was not insured, the first reaction is to say that the driver should be put in jail, but I would prefer if we were to impound the car. Serious action is called for in this area.

Deputy Cullen said the Minister should ensure that there is proper financial stability in the insurance area. Surely that is what this Bill is trying to do. Deputy Bruton spoke about things that might have been done, but this Minister has made more progress in this area in the last 12 or 14 months than has been accomplished in the past 14 years.

I admit that a number of the issues raised, such as the abolition of juries, has taken a long time to be covered by legislation and that many things are happening now which should have happened a long time ago. There are aspects of insurance which are highly technical and I have no intention of going into them. In the Seanad there were a number of professionals in this area and they raised many technical points and made suggestions. I was glad the Minister was willing to take their suggestions on board and I am sure he will listen very carefully to any suggestions made in this House. I admit many points will be raised in this House which will not be covered in the Bill and I ask the insurance industry to listen very carefully to our comments because if they do not regulate their business it will be done for them through legislation. The reform of this area from a legal point of view is being looked at and co-ordination of the industry is called for. I agree that there should be a body to oversee the implementation of rules and regulations.

There are many difficulties and problems getting insurance cover which probably will be raised, and most of us will be taking the side of the consumer. I am more expert in that side. We will have to look at many areas, including delayed litigation, particularly in medical cases where it is impossible to assess the kind of premiums which should be paid, what type of funds should be kept for paying claims and so on. I know a number of companies are meeting serious problems in this area. These are questions which, in fairness to the insurance industry, will have to be addressed.

There are non-technical aspects covered in the Bill. So many of them are so logical, practical and sensible that it is amazing it has taken so long for them to be introduced. The system of dealing with industrial insurance was archaic and I am glad the Minister has moved on that area. The approach where a person who receives money for insurance cover has to lodge it in the bank is very basic but this practice was not followed and it led to difficulties. The system where a person who pays a premium to an insurance agent and is deemed to have given the money to the insurer created great difficulties in the past. It was a very simple point to deal with, but it meant legislation had to be introduced. These are steps I welcome wholeheartedly.

There are other issues which I am sure will be raised and which the Minister will have to spell out for the public. The public are not au fait with financial institutions and related areas. It was said in the Seanad — and I am sure it will be repeated here — that there is a blurring of the boundaries in this area. There is a need for the State to spell out the needs and the exact meaning of each term used. A classic example is the difference between an agent and a broker. We owe it to the public to clearly explain the difference because I am sure there are many who do not understand. Such explanation would afford the public an opportunity of deciding where they should give their business.

I asked a specific question with regard to the prohibition on payment of commission to any broker or agent who did not comply with the provisions of the Bill. The question posed was whether such prohibition would exclude all others from receiving commission, such as people who might act as intermediaries. The Minister might answer that question because I am sure it will be repeated by others.

I agree fully with the proposal to change the bonding system from a flat sum of £100,000 to a percentage related figure which will be fairer and will not discriminate against the smaller broker.

While I may not understand all of the technicalities involved I am totally familiar with the end results of problems being encountered by people seeking insurance cover. I am thinking of the non-availability of insurance cover and so on. I might draw the attention of insurers to the logical conclusion that there will be diminishing returns if premiums are too high or incur extra loading, when people will tend to drive without insurance cover. This is a danger particularly in the under-25 year old driver category. I ask insurers to examine that aspect carefully. Prohibitive premiums will deter people from arranging cover and insurers will be at the loss of such premiums. Additionally there is the cost of the implications of uninsured driving for the Motor Insurers' Bureau which I believe amounted to £50 million last year. Insurers must have occasioned much of this loss themselves by seeking excessive premiums.

I know the Minister will contend that he cannot fully protect the consumer when it comes to insurance cover. However, there is a balance to be struck in these matters. There is a greater onus on the State to play a more positive role in the insurance field than in other commercial areas. The reason I say so is that insurance cover is mandatory in so many areas — industry, transport and indeed, now the protection of mortgages. However, that in turn imposes the requirement of legislation to provide adequate insurance cover at reasonable cost. There is a very fine balance between the Minister's regulations and the State requirement of insurance cover. We still have quite a way to go before striking that balance.

I realise that a number of Ministers will be involved, the Minister present and the Ministers for Justice and the Environment. I am certain that the interdepartmental group established will advance additional positive suggestions and that the Minister is heading in the right direction. He has always taken a positive view where industry is concerned. I was disappointed that an experienced spokesman like Deputy John Bruton should offer negative criticism about what he called a roadshow vis-à-vis industry and commerce. As one who has worked all my life in industry, it is my belief that people need to be educated on the likely outcome of the implementation of the internal market in 1992. Such an exercise should not prevent anybody from dealing with the services area. The Minister for Industry and Commerce has set an example of which some of his predecessors might be somewhat jealous. I am convinced he is doing the right thing and I should like to see him continue along that road.

My prime interest in the provisions of the Bill is as a consumer. The many issues that will arise will relate to cost, availability or lack of availability of insurance cover, the knock-on effect when insurance cover has not been arranged, which will have implications of innocent third parties. There are also the restrictive clauses imposed on occasion, all of which issues are affected by many different factors only some of which will be touched on today. For example, there are the steps being taken to correct problems encountered, such as the Courts Bill and the Companies Bill whose provisions will help to improve the position generally. Indeed they constitute the first serious attempts to improve the overall position. The insurance industry — a major one — must be given the protection that would be sought by any other commercial grouping and which will be subject to enormous pressure in 1992. However, they have indicated that they are willing to work and prepare themselves for this eventuality. I know they have welcomed the provisions of this Bill. I know that one of the parent bodies was somewhat concerned about the establishment of a monitoring group. However, given time all of these problems can be resolved.

My most direct involvement with insurance problems is in the area of community development. I was chairman of a community council for five years. I am deeply involved in community development and voluntary effort in Cork city. It has been my experience that insurance problems are tearing at the very fabric of community development. These are encountered when carnivals are arranged, on the establishment of children's play groups, facilities for the elderly, a whole range of activities in respect of which people are fearful of the implications of lack of insurance cover or are spending most of their time endeavouring to raise money to pay for it. Therefore, it will be readily seen that there will be tremendous damage done to community and voluntary effort if such problems are not teased out. It is unfortunate that, on the one hand, State aid is given to voluntary groups to encourage them to undertake such work while, on the other hand, they are being stymied by the non-availability or lack of insurance cover.

I fully accept that there are grave dangers involved. Only when an accident occurs do people fully realise what can happen. It is my belief that community development or voluntary effort will have to be examined separately from commercial enterprises, industries and so on. It is totally unfair that people should be afraid of such involvement because of the cost of insurance cover. I recall the infamous case in Tipperary some 12 or 14 years ago when there was much damage occasioned by a fire, when a national organisation found themselves responsible. That scare has been resurrected in the past three or four years. I should like to see examined the possibility of some kind of State cover in respect of community activities. I know it falls under a broad heading and that there will be many problems to be encountered but there is a need for its examination whether by way of separate brokerage, the imposition of levies or the allocation of extra funding. I do not know what is the answer but this problem must be addressed separately from all other aspects of insurance cover. People's real fear is that, at the end of the day, they could find themselves responsible, possibly losing their home or an enormous amount of money because of their involvement in voluntary work. I should like the Minister to take note of that aspect and offer any advice he may have to proffer in that respect.

The report of the interdepartmental committee which operated under the Minister's guidance should be brought forward as speedily as possible. As a newcomer to the House I am worried about the length of time it takes for a Bill to be brought forward. I do not know if the problem is the back-up service but it takes a very long time from the first thought to fruition in regard to Bills.

This Bill, the Bill in relation to juries, the reduction in numbers on the legal team, the possible publication of a book of quantum of damages, the introduction of a pre-trial procedures system and the introduction of legislation to bring into effect the recommendations of the Barrington Committee on Safety, Health and Welfare at the workplace will all help enormously to lower costs. However, this should not take years; it must be implemented as quickly as possible to allow our local industry to prepare for the onslaught from Europe after 1992.

I am au fait with safety in the workplace, as I acted as an industrial safety officer. Attitudes in the workplace must change. Some companies are very good on the shop floor and the same applies to many insurance companies. The work done by the National Industrial Safety Organisation cannot be measured in this regard. They get support but they need more and the insurance companies must realise that one way of saving costs is to educate the workforce on how to avoid accidents. It is no use complaining about massive costs if someone has been injured so badly that he will never work again or indeed if an employee is killed. It is vital to explain the issues to the workforce. The public attitude will also have to change because all the legislation in the world will not be effective if that is not the case. In regard to insurance in general, the public seem to think that some kind of a mystical body will pay the money awarded when a case is brought. It is a question of “them” paying. We all know that a different approach is taken in regard to damage to a car or fire in a building when it is an insurance job, as it is known.

Costs escalate and the whole attitude is that "they" will pay for it. In the past, the public attitude to general expenditure was the same. "They"— the State — would pay for everything. However, the public now realise that they pay for everything. "They", in the context of the insurance business, are the consumers who pay the premiums. The consumers and the public generally must realise that claims, especially frivolous ones, push up charges. There are many other areas not covered in the Bill, which contribute to insurance costs. I mentioned dodgers who do not take out insurance, which means that those who have insurance pay more. Drunken drivers, speed merchants, careless workers and employers who cut corners in regard to safety also push up costs. They gamble with the health and lives of employees.

I have also been involved in health boards and the costs of professional witnesses are astronomical. It is a matter for concern that professionals must be absent from their place of work. This applies particularly to medical people, as their job is to care for sick people but often they have to give evidence in court cases. I appreciate that this is a highly complex area and that there may be cross-examination of witnesses but, in many cases, a simple affidavit should be sufficient. Something is wrong when a person awaiting medical treatment cannot get it because a doctor is in court giving evidence. Maybe if the fees for attentance were controlled it might help.

Hidden damage is being caused because of people in the black economy who will not take out insurance, while the legitimate trader is penalised and very often goes to the wall because of unfair competition. Controls should be implemented in that area. All these matters need to be addressed. This Bill and the Minister's general approach are a step in the right direction, and I appeal to other Ministers involved to take action in this area.

There is a very serious aspect which no one has mentioned in relation to some judicial decisions, not so much in making awards but in relation to the inter-pretation of legislation. In a number of cases the wishes of the Oireachtas have been overturned. It is a serious issue which must be examined in due course.

The problems in regard to insurance have built up over many years. They have been largely ignored although in the recent past the Minister has taken action to provide cover for certain motorists who had been refused it. The Motor Insurance Bureau has been set up but there is still a long way to go. There are technical points in the Bill which will be dealt with by people who know more about them than I do but I should like to emphasise that it is as a representative of the consumer and as one myself that I make these points. I look forward to the Minister's replies to the various points raised because this is one of the most important debates we will have in the House.

I listened with great interest to Deputy Dennehy's speech, in which he had a common-sense approach

I hope that a Bill of this nature will get the publicity in the national media to which it is entitled. I have been concerned of late that some important Bills have not been given the coverage they deserve. A Bill of this nature affects so many people in so many walks of life and such items deserve to be reported in our main national media. The Courts Bill went through the House in the last session and we had the changes in the Intoxicating Liquor Act. I am sure the Ceann Comhairle as Ceann Comhairle and as a Deputy has had many inquiries from, say, publicans in regarding the changes in the intoxicating liquor legislation but it had scant coverage in our national media. Similarly, nobody knew at what progress was being made on the Courts Bill.

We are commencing a new Dáil session and I appeal to the editors of our national media to ensure that coverage is given to the workings of this House. If papers want to have social columns about what happens here I am happy if that is reported. For instance, a little internal rivalry within a party or a bit of gossip can be reported but much more important is reportage of the day-to-day workings of whatever nature. In fairness, RTE, particularly on radio, do very good coverage with "Today in the Dáil" and reports in the mornings. The Irish Times do that also, but the other papers should do so as well. They are facing competition from British papers and they feel that much of what happens here may not be all that newsworthy or good for their sales. Be that as it may, this Bill before us is of importance to so many people in so many walks of life. At the start of this session I appeal that our national papers give our national Parliament the dignified treatment it deserves in covering our debates adequately.

I am not making that criticism in respect of the Press Gallery, who I am sure, tonight as always in regard to this and all Bills, will present their reports and copy. However, editorial decisions obviously have been taken to reduce the amount of coverage. A Cheann Comhairle, I thank you for allowing me to make those comments. You were very generous in allowing me to make them.

I have allowed the Deputy some licence on the matter. He might now come to grips with the Bill.

I felt I should make those remarks at the commencement of this session. This is an important Bill which deserves support and I am certain our party are fully supportive of it.

I want to refer to a number of aspects of the Bill. The Minister is going to have far greater power now in regard to his whole role in his powers to regulate, supervise and deal with insurance companies. That is as it should be. He can do two more things. He can regulate the commission and he will have power to regulate the insurance intermediaries. At the very commencement I want to stress to the Minister and his Department of Industry and Commerce officials that throughout Ireland people in ordinary insurance and assurance are appointed as agents to collect premiums. They are paid on a commission basis. As far as I am aware many of them at least get no basic salary. Because of that on occasions many of those agents are tempted to avail for temporary periods and so on of the funds they collect. For one reason or another the returns are not made as rapidly as they should be and on other occasions because of financial difficulties some moneys are not returned at all.

When you go to the insurance company, assurance company, or investment company to explain your problem with regard to some individuals you are told that the person was an agent not employed directly by the company. The point I want to make before I report progress is that any company, be it for car insurance, fire or life insurance, who authorise and allow a person to collect premiums for them should be liable for any default that takes place in that regard. I think it only common sense that that be adhered to. A bond can be taken out on that person working for the company or some such measure could be taken, but this legislation should provide that any person employed by an insurance company to act as their agent is fully covered and a person paying over money to that agent will not be at the loss of that money.

Let me say in fairness that in any problems that have arisen in the past the insurance companies have, generously on occasions, paid out the moneys to people who would otherwise have been at a loss after paying their premiums but it should not depend just on the goodwill of the insurance company or the firm involved. The provision for the protection of the individual should be statutory. People sometimes decide to invest large sums of money in life assurance or such items and part with their money and sometimes suffer great stress wondering what has happened to their investments. It is essential that this be regularised in legislation. A person handing over moneys to an official in a bank or anywhere else knows that the bank is responsible for that money and a similar provision should apply in regard to insurance companies.

An item of great concern has been the cost of insurance for employers. I must say I am pleased that, according to a survey by the CII, employers' liability insurance rates have fallen from 2.78 per cent of payroll costs in 1986 to 1.85 per cent of payroll costs in 1988. That is significant because the cost of insurance for many firms has been prohibitive. May I say to employers, to the Confederation of Irish Industry and to people in any walk of life who employ others that it is essential that their employees be protected. I have seen in the past so many young men mutilated by the loss of a leg, an arm or an eye. No amount of money, be it £10,000 or £100,000, will compensate for such loss. It is of paramount importance that employers take great care in ensuring safety at their workplace. The most important thing that employers can do is educate their staff about safety. I think that is of the utmost importance.

Debate adjourned.
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