Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 25 Oct 1988

Vol. 383 No. 3

Estimates for the Public Services 1989 and Public Capital Programme 1989: Motion (Resumed).

The following motion was moved by the Minister for Finance on Tuesday, 25 October 1988:

That Dáil Éireann takes note of the 1989 Estimates for the Public Services (Abridged Version) and of the 1989 Summary Public Capital Programme.

Debate resumed on amendment No. 4:

After "Programme" to add to the Motion:

"published by the Government on 18th October, 1988. In noting the publication of the 1989 Estimates Dáil Éireann draws attention to the fact that they present only one part of the budgetary and financial picture for 1989, and resolve to have a full debate on each estimate as amended, as soon as possible after the 1989 Budget.

-Deputy Noonan(Limerick East.)

Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture and Food (Mr. Kirk)

Before we adjourned at 7 p.m. I had been paying tribute to the Teagasc research centre in Kinsealy for the contribution it has made to the development of the mushroom industry. There is no doubt that the new production techniques developed there over a period provided the dynamic for the development of this rapidly expanding industry. We also had the opportunity to pay tribute to the far-seeing producers who adopted that technology and put it to very good use in the development of the industry at primary production level.

At present we have approximately 9 per cent of the fresh mushroom market in Britain. We envisage that increasing rapidly in the next few years; indeed we envisage that our percentage share of the British market will increase to 16 per cent in a few short years. There is no doubt that the leaders in the mushroom industry have set an example for us all. This success spells out not only the importance of the individual growers, but the essential need for growers to be closely organised in groups under a group management which takes full account of new technical developments and of the need at all times for good marketing and top quality.

Mr. Birmingham

This debate coincides with getting under way of the new academic year and with the past academic year drawing to a close. Inevitably at a time like this there will be much focus on examinations results — the marks obtained and grades achieved. It seems therefore, an appropriate time to report on the grades achieved by the Minister for Education. What might such a report say? Might it say: "this was a student of whom much had been expected; expectations had been increased by her performance in Opposition, during which she had vigorously supported increased expenditure on every aspect of education but this early promise has not been fulfilled". Particularly disappointed, I suspect, will be those concerned about the charges for school transport because they will remember Deputy Mary O'Rourke's earliest months as Opposition spokesperson. They will recall her "crusade" not a particularly modest or self-effacing description but her work to describe her opposition to the decision by the then Minister, Deputy Gemma Hussey, to introduce, though in an ameliorated and modified form, the decisions announced by the outgoing Fianna Fáil Government.

Last year the Estimates provided for a reduction of £6.5 million and in this year's Estimates we again see substantial cuts in regard to school transport. One wonders what views those concerned have about the fidelity of such a crusader? One suspects that they may have to think again.

The past 18 months has been a dismal period in Irish education. The Minister, who in Opposition had disdained the achievements of the then Government, such as "The Ages of Learning" which resolved the vexed question of how many years the students were to spend at second level and of the stage at which they were to enter the primary level, which opened up the education system to support from the European Social Fund at second and third levels and which brought about achievements in the area of curriculum reform, has presided over a period of confusion and decline in education.

That period of confusion, decline, and floundering uncertainty has been exacerbated by these Estimates. The Minister's period in office has been characterised by a series of misjudgments which have dismayed the education world, embarrassed her colleagues in Government and betrayed those who are her charges — pupils and students for whom she has responsibility. We recall, for example, the decision to increase class sizes in primary schools and to do so right across the nation without regard to whether the school was developing or was in a disadvantaged area and without regard to other factors. That decision which was anathema to every precept of natural justice was taken by a Cabinet that clearly did not understand and had not had pointed out to them the implications behind their decision. Parents rallying to the attack on their children saw the worst effects of that decision ameliorated, though indeed that amelioration was offered not by the Minister for Education but by the Taoiseach.

We all recall the extraordinarily parliamentary performance on the occasion when the Taoiseach had donned his black tie and headed off to the Burlington and the Minister was left alone and hapless in his absence to face the Opposition. The baffled Chief Whip was sitting beside her offering his instructions.

We then had an attack on the community, comprehensive and vocational sector, the sector that has traditionally been charged with the care of the disadvantaged. Central to its reason for existance is that it should be in a position to offer a wide range of subjects but the Minister's decisions strike at this, their basic ability. She stumped up with the argument that all she was doing was seeking to achieve equality. What equality is there for a school in a disadvantaged area? It was brought to my attention that a school in what is probably the most disadvantaged and deprived area in the west of this city will have fewer teachers than it had last year despite the fact that as a relatively new school it is catering for an extra year and will have extra students. This school is in an area where unemployment is running at an estimated 63 per cent.

Again there was some partial retreat. The Minister was not relied on to announce that the mechanism for the Programme for National Recovery had to be used. Schools know that the academic year is going to cause problems and that they are going to have to provide the service with fewer teachers and fewer teaching hours than were available last year. Those difficulties were compounded by the Minister's ineptitude and procrastination, about which she had been warned. She was told that her failure to inform schools, particularly in the community, comprehensive and vocational sector, of their allocation of teachers could have only one result. It had that result, the schools reopened to chaos. A school in Ballymun opened without a French or a home economics teacher. Despite the pleadings of the public representatives of the area and the teachers concerned the weeks of the academic year tick away week by week without the necessary teachers. That school is expected to compete.

The school transport service was the Minister's area of personal crusade. Last year £6.5 million was taken from the service only to have it restored, not by the Minister for Education but by the Minister for Finance in the budget. It is very curious that the unfortunate Minister always finds herself in the position that she announces the original decision, the bad news, and when the Government run scared, someone else intervences and says "It is not as bad as Mary told you. We have managed to sort something out".

An Ceann Comhairle

Perhaps the Deputy would give the Member concerned her full title, Minister for Education.

Mr. Birmingham

I will give her her full style and title with the greatest of pleasure. The £6.5 million that was taken out last year was put back again in the budget but this year's Estimate provides for a reduction of 18 per cent, from £31,900,000 to £26,200,000. What will that mean? It will mean higher charges and a squeezing of the system. Only today a teacher who deals with the mentally handicapped in Roscommon told me of the plight of two young mildly mentally handicapped children who are sitting at home because transport will not be provided by the Department to bring them to a school catering for the needs of the mildly mentally handicapped. There are other children in the area for whom arrangements can be made for the payment of a grant but in these two instances the parents are not in a position to bring the children to school and the youngsters stay at home. As a result of these Estimates there will be more examples of that.

Another example of this "in, out, in" system is the capital allocation for school buildings in the primary sector. Last year a swathe was cut right through the allocation. Then there was partial relief from the Minister for Finance in last year's budget when he put in something that had been taken out by the Minister for Education in the Estimates in a second bite of the cherry. One wonders whether the Minister knows whether she is coming or going.

Then we had what appeared to be the Minister's crowning glory, the decision to reduce all schools in the secondary system to a five year cycle. In doing that the Minister was setting at nought one of the major achievements of her predecessor but that did not worry her. That decision did not last too long. On that occasion it was the Taoiseach who intervened to say that that decision was not going ahead. The Taoiseach managed to rescind that decision when a TV mike was placed in front of him on a visit to a school and he appeared to do that without even informing the hapless Minister for Education.

Right through this year's Estimates it is again clear that the Minister has failed to protect the education system. I have already mentioned school transport and school buildings. Particularly shameful in this year's Estimates is the reduction in services for children in care. The allocation for the neediest of the needy has been reduced. That decision is redolent only of the attempt last year to cut off education for travellers. At least that was dropped by the Minister, but only when an anguished Sister Collette had journeyed to the Minister's home and pleaded to have that extraordinary decision reversed. What will it take to cause a rethink of this proposal?

This year singled out for attention in the Estimates is third level education. By way of mitigation, fair warning was given. Every briefing, every leak in the months leading up to the publication of the Estimates indicated that third level education would receive the Minister's special attention.

For the PTA sector in the Estimates there is an increase of 3 per cent. That seems reasonable on the face of it. In the present financial climate, at first sight it appears better than one might expect but of course, the figures do not tell the whole story. The apparent 3 per cent increase does not reveal that the universities have to pay for the various special pay awards granted over the last year and it does not take account of the fact that the universities have to pay for the general pay agreement across the public service. If those factors are taken into account there is a reduction in real terms in terms of their ability to deliver services of some 1 or 2 per cent. That on top of what has been happening to the university sector in the last few years means a disimprovement in services, fewer tutorials and when tutorials are held more students will be crammed in. It also means that the students who do not come to tutorials because they will not be organised for them, who head off for the libraries, will find themselves with an ever deteriorating library service.

Within the higher education area it is the RTCs that come in for particular attention. In this area we have revealed the real short-sightedness of the Minister's approach. The Estimate provides for a reduction of 1 per cent for the RTCs in the coming year. That does not sound too catastrophic and it is the sort of thing one might expect to have to live with in the present economic climate. However, the raw figures disguise the real severity of the cut. In context, that cut of 1 per cent is the same scale cut that last year caused some riots, anguish and chaos in the vocational, community and comprehensive sector. That 1 per cent last year led to the marches, the anguish, the protest meetings and to a situation now where schools are reducing their range of subjects throughout the country. It is a 1 per cent cut only on the most cursory examination. Again, we have to take into account that it does not allow for the special pay increases which are very significant in that sector or for the general pay agreement or for increments.

Given that we are talking about a reasonably young sector where most members of the staff will not be on the top of the scale, the question of increments is of major significance. The real cut there is in the order of 4 or 5 per cent and how will that be achieved? It can only be achieved by job losses and by redundancies among the academic staff. That will mean narrower choices for students and that courses will be terminated. This is very short-sighted. Has the Minister taken no account of what is happening within the European Community? Thanks to the efforts of the Minister's predecessor, the RTC sector is substantially supported by the European Social Fund. The Structural Funds are being reviewed and in that review there is the prospect of a significantly higher intervention rate for areas of priority and Ireland is one such area.

If one allows for the fact that we already get Social Fund money and that we will be getting it at a higher rate for our RTCs, and if one allows for the fact that the staff employed in the RTCs are for the most part in the higher tax bands — and whatever happens on the tax front we can take it that they will remain in the higher tax band — it will be possible in a year or two to actually run our RTCs at a profit, thanks to the good offices of the European Community. However, the Minister appears oblivious and takes no account of that prospect. Instead there is the shortsighted approach of cutting now. One has to say that a complete unawareness, to put it at its most charitable, of what is happening in Europe permeates much of the Minister's activity. Again, I take an example from the RTC sector. In the early summer months the Council of Education Ministers considered a directive on mutual recognition of third level qualifications, an area of vital importance to Ireland. The Ministers adopted a directive covering qualifications which follows on a three-year course. Did the Minister not know or did she not care that the staple diet of the RTCs for which she is responsible is the two-year national diploma?

Another area of bitter disappointment in the RTC sector is the capital provision. Where is the provision for RTCs at Thurles, Castlebar and Dún Laoghaire? There is no provision. Most shameful of all is the fact that there is no provision for Tallaght, an area which cries out for attention but which is again to be neglected.

If the Minister was compensating in other areas for her failure to win resources, people might be prepared to be generous. They might say that although she lacks clout at Cabinet she is clearly interested, committed and serious but there is no indication of a willingness to take decisions in other areas, even where there are no financial implications. Where is the decision in relation to the status of the NIHEs? Their case for university status has been established internationally but the Minister refuses to come forward with a decision. What action is being taken to have a centralised system of applications for all third-level colleges and institutions for students sitting the 1989 examinations? Why do the Mercy Order find themselves in the position of having to act as innkeepers advertising for paying guests on the back pages of the newspapers because the Minister fails to come forward with proposals for alternative uses for Carysfort? Why has legislation not been brought forward which would allow the RTCs the capacity to raise funds themselves? These facts, on top of the Minister's failure to secure resources, present a dismal picture.

I said at the outset that it was a question of what grades might be awarded to the Minister. The judgment has to be that her performance is disappointing and that she does not merit rising with her year. In those circumstances one might have thought that the option of repeating a year would be a possibility, since it is usually offered to a weak student. Of course, the Minister has taken out that option. Under this Government, weak students are not allowed to repeat their year. With that option removed, there is only one possibility available to those who cannot measure up academically — exclusion from the course.

Minister of State at the Department of Industry and Commerce (Mr. S. Brennan)

The action which has been taken by the Government since coming into office has created an environment which we all agree has been good for business. One only has to look closely at the results in that period. We are now dealing with an inflation rate of the order of 2 per cent, less than half the British rate and significantly lower than in most of Europe. Interest rates are lower. The prime rate is now about 8 per cent, which is also below the British rate. Industrial costs are falling. Electricity costs are now in line with those of our competitor countries. Our postal and telecommunication charges are coming into line with international charges. My colleagues and I have been involved in a campaign to reduce insurance costs and we have met with considerable success. We recently announced the results of a survey which clearly showed that insurance premia were falling in the public employment area and in the motor area particularly. I put these facts before the House to indicate that business does not operate in a vacuum. It can only operate and provide employment against the correct background and I would argue that this background has been and is being created very rapidly.

The Book of Estimates confirms the Government's commitment to continue the tight control of expenditure which we began on first coming to office. Cuts are still necessary and are still being applied, but I stress that the development side of the economy is not being neglected. This is clear from the number of developmental projects under way. The Government's clear signal to industry that the State's finances will be kept under control is a major point of reference for the financial community and business generally. Business needs that confidence and assurance. I would argue that because they know the Government mean business in regard to public finance and keeping public expenditure under control and will never again allow the public finances to be out of control, the marketplace is responding satisfactorily. I refer to the level of interest rates, the level of inflation, the level of gilts and the general level of investment in the economy.

It is worth repeating that Government create the conditions within which business can flourish. We have seen business responding to the creation of that environment. I have great confidence in business people in both the public and private sectors. If we create the conditions and the atmosphere they will do the rest. We cannot expect them to operate in an economically hostile environment, as they had to do for too long. Industry has been responding wonderfully to this new environment.

I should like to take this opportunity to salute in particular the Irish exporter who wins markets overseas, sometimes against very heavy competition. Perhaps it is not realised just how dependent on trade this country is. Some 55 per cent of our GNP comes from trade. This country is proportionally more dependent on trade than Japan or the United States of America. We depend for our livelihood on earnings from exports. Ours is arguably one of the most open economies in the OECD. We have no choice but to win market share outside this small island. This can only be done if we are competitive and know what we are doing. That is why I salute our exporters. In the past two years, against very strong international competition, they have brought home the orders. Our exports are booming across all sectors of the economy. In 1987 our exports hit the figure of £10.7 billion and we ran a trade surplus of £1.56 billion. I wonder if it is realised just what a turnabout this is. For 20 years we ran a trade deficit and imported more than we exported. For the past two years we exported more than we imported. For that reason, if for no other, I salute the Irish exporter operating in that environment. Throughout that 20-year period industry was not able to turn the international marketplace to its advantage to the extent that has been possible in the past two years. Their success has been due to low interest rates, low inflation, reducing insurance and electricity costs and falling input costs generally. For that reason they have been able to achieve these tremendous results.

I was able to announce a few days ago that exports for 1988 will hit the £12 billion figure, that is £1 billion a month which Irish industry is selling overseas, a trade surplus of £2 billion since we are importing £10 million and exporting £12 billion. It is important that that be put very strongly on the record. It is a tribute to the Irish business community and to the atmosphere within which they are now operating that of all the countries of the EC this is, proportionally of course, the best trading performance. It has been turned in in the past 12 months by Irish industry — and Irish exporters in particular. This House should salute the Irish business person and exporter for this.

These results were not just confined, as some commentators have suggested, to the multi-nationals. It is not just the big companies that are turning out the exports. Right across small business and small industry, our own companies are matching international competition and winning orders in magnificent style. There are clear signs that in the indigenous sector exports are growing. I would expect a growth of 16 per cent this year over the figure for last year. That is a very significant increase. Government strategy here is not to rely completely on the international and multi-national companies. Let me say how welcome these companies are in doing business here and exporting from this country. It is perhaps not said clearly enough and often enough that that type of industry is welcome here because of the employment which it creates and exports which it generates.

The Government's job now is to find increasing linkages from those exports back to employment on the floor of the factory and to try to develop our own industry alongside and parallel with the international companies. It is not a question of either multi-nationals or indigenous; it is a question of both because they learn from each other, have linkages with each other and are very important to each other. It is a question of a parallel development of the Irish firm alongside the international company. If we can do that successfully, our exports will continue to rise.

There are some signs, which worry me quite a trifle, that imports are increasing slightly. That is perhaps due to the lower interest rate charged and the slight heating up that might be beginning in the economy, but it should not throw our trade surplus out of kilter. It is important that I put firmly on the record my appreciation to the Irish business person and particularly of the Irish exporter for turning in the best trading performance of any country in the EC in the last 12 months, and I take this opportunity to do so.

Apart from the better climate in industry, there have been a number of specific initiatives which I have taken in my own office and which I would like briefly to put on the record of the House. First, we have engaged in a complete reorganisation of CTT, the Irish export board. There have been a substantial number of redundancies in that organisation brought about voluntarily and there has been a whole new focus brought to that export board, principally by instilling into them a payment by results ethos or philosophy whereby Irish exporters who are successful pay the State agency for that success, that the State agency ultimately, through a variety of mechanisms, share in that success. For too long we have assisted industry and industry, when successful, has reaped the reward of that success. We have put in place in the Irish Export Board a mechanism whereby as CTT assist exporters in winning markets abroad, the exporter, in turn, will refund or pay back in some way to CTT some share of that action. It is in crude commercial terms called "No foal, no fee" but it is also a very important concept or philosophy perhaps for all State agencies, and certainly for this one.

For too long the Irish export board, having very successfully helped exporters throughout the world to win these marvellous exports, have received a very nice letter of thanks from the exporter and nothing else. From now on they will get a nice letter of thanks and, it is hoped, a cheque which will be related to the exports won by that exporter overseas. That is a radical change of direction for the board and one which I am happy to tell the House is beginning to work. If the exporter is not successful overseas, then he does not have to make any payment at all to the Irish export board. It is important that the agency would operate, in so far as it can, on a payment by results basis. If it helps to get the results, then it should share in the rewards of its work. That is not possible in some of the board's activities such as in the traditional trade board area where the board have to carry out trade missions and trade fairs, that kind of missionary work which is always important.

Apart from the Irish export board, in the office of trade and marketing we have established the trading house regime. I have a particular interest in this area because I see this as an exciting new development in Irish business. I have licensed six trading houses under the trading house legislation passed by this House last year. Basically, a trading house are a company who buy from manufacturers and export abroad. Provided they buy from Irish manufacturers they can avail of the 10 per cent rate of taxation and of business expansion money also. That is a scheme under which you can invest up to £25,000 of your own funds in a company and write it off against your income tax. There have been some 200 or so very serious inquiries about trading house licences. The six that we have issued cover technology software, engineering, construction, supply of health care products and the food area. I estimate that the exports for these six trading houses in the first three years will be of the order of £100 million of additional exports which we are not getting currently from the export system as it is.

I am confident that if we nurture these trading houses systematically, if we license only the best ones and monitor them carefully, in years to come the Irish trading house movement will be as important to this country as it is to Japan or other countries that have used the model for many years. One reason that we needed these is that there are some 7,000 small manufacturing companies here, of whom only about 2,000 export. One way of getting the other 5,000 into the business of exporting was to create a structure whereby they could export easily. You cannot expect 5,000 or so small firms to travel around the world trying to sell their products. These are companies dealing perhaps with very small products and giving very small employment. However, they can sell to trading houses and the trading houses can do that work for them. I hope to license an additional number of trading houses in the period ahead.

We have established a national marketing group which is currently completing its work. I would hope to put to the Government shortly a national marketing plan which will identify how Irish firms can be supported in securing increased market shares on home and overseas markets. I would expect quite a number of radical suggestions in that national marketing plan as to how we sell the notion overseas of Ireland Incorporated, how we streamline our agencies abroad so that they are all singing out of the same hymnbook and how we focus our agencies overseas to win additional business. It is essential for this country that we win that business.

An Ceann Comhairle

I intervene to advise the Minister that some four minutes now remain of the time allotted to him.

Mr. S. Brennan

We have established an overseas consultancy group which is advising me on how best to win additional overseas business and their report will be available shortly. We have also established and have had lengthy discussions with the entertainment industry here to see how we can mould that entertainment industry into an industry that can win additional foreign revenue. I hope to have some proposals in that regard in the not too distant future. With the Marketing Institute of Ireland we have put in place a fostering scheme and there are now some 53 companies involved. This is where the larger companies give, free of charge, marketing expertise to smaller companies and that scheme is working very successfully at present.

Against the background of all of this development work the Irish Goods Council have been making considerable strides. The council focuses on domestic marketing. It is all very well to win markets overseas and that we need to do but the Irish Goods Council have informed me that there is perhaps a thousand million pounds worth of products being imported here currently that could be manufactured in this country either in existing firms or in firms that could be established. I would pose this question for Irish industry in the strongest possible manner. Irish industry has about 45 per cent of its own market place; the other 55 per cent is held by other countries. If we cannot win additional shares of our own home market how will it be possible for us to win additional shares of markets overseas? We have got to concentrate to a larger extent on winning market share in our own country and the Irish Goods Council are very successful at doing that and have received the funds to do it again this year.

I wanted to refer to those few items which come directly under the office with responsibility for trade and marketing. I touched briefly on the question of insurance which we also deal with and in that area I have talked about the reduction in premia which has been brought about and which I announced recently. The survey indicated that the rates were coming down substantially.

The Exchequer borrowing requirement is now running at about 6 per cent; some two years ago it was running at 13 per cent and the nation was on the brink of financial collapse. In a very short period this country is being turned around. The Exchequer borrowing requirement is now down to 5 per cent or 6 per cent and that more than anything else indicates the success of the financial strategy of the Government. Because the financial strategy is being successful, industry is sure-footed and understands that there is leadership in the economy. In that regard and in saluting the exporters to whom I referred earlier, I would like to say that what I have learned about Irish business in my short period in this office is that where companies or business are strongly led by individuals who are determined, despite the obstacles, to make a success of the particular business venture then it is a success. The other approach is where companies are often very well managed but people have a long list of its —"If only I had more funds from the State", "if only I did not have the VAT problem", and "if only I did not have all the other problems, I could be a successful company".

My experience in the short 18 months or so I have had to observe industry at close range has been that wherever the companies are properly led and wherever that leadership is provided in business the companies succeed. That kind of leadership is being provided by the Government at national level and I would ask Irish industry particularly to make sure that that kind of leadership is provided in their own company. If it is, then the export figures I have been talking about can be continued.

Mr. McGinley

A Cheann Comhairle, sílim gurb iad na mór-fhadhbanna eacnamaíochta atá sa tír seo i láthair na huaire ná an ráta ard nó an uimhir ard daoine atá dífhostaithe sa tír, agus chomh maith leis sin an uimhir ard daoine atá ag fágáil na tíre nó atá ag dul ar imirce gach bliain. Is dócha gurb í an tríú fadhb, agus b'fhéidir atá chomh tábhachtach leis an dá cheann eile, ná an ráta ard cánach atá sa tír seo, agus sílim go bhfuil dlúthcheangal idir na trí cinn, go bhfuil ceann acu ag teacht ón cheann eile.

Ag breathnú ar Leabhar na Meastachán seo a foilsíodh an tseachtain seo caite, caithfimid a bheith fírinneach agus a rá gur beag atá sa Leabhar Meastachán seo faoi choinne na fadhbanna dífhostaíochta agus imirce a réiteach. Tá a fhios againn go bhfuil an dífhostaíocht ag 236,000 anois, agus má áiríonn tú leis sin an 30,000 nó an 40,000 a d'fhág an tír le bliain anuas agus an uimhir daoine atá fostaithe go sealadach ar scéimeanna éagsúla i láthair na huaire, déarfainn gurb í an uimhir 300,000 ar a laghad, nó níos airde, an fhíor-uimhir. Is uafásach an cás é sin agus na daoine óga atá ag fágáil na tíre agus gan mórán, i mo thuairimse, sa leabhar seo faoi choinne tabhairt faoi na fadhbanna seo a réiteach sa bhliain atá romhainn. Chomh fada agus a bhaineann sé le Roinn na Gaeltachta, an Roinn a bhfuil suim ar leith agam féin ann, sílim gur dona an scéal é go bhfuil ísliú 16 faoin gcéad ar an Meastachán i mbliana, ceann de na hislithe is mó, sílim, sna Meastacháin ar fad ag dul do Roinn na Gaeltachta: ó £15.023 milliún i 1988 go dtí £12.637 milliún. Is Roinn bheag í, agus tá an t-ísliú an-ard ar fad, agus sílim go gcuirfidh sé sin isteach go mór ar shaol na Gaeltachta agus ar fhorbairt na Gaeltachta agus ar chruthú fostaíocht sa Ghaeltacht agus ar dhul chun cinn agus cosaint na Gaeilge Agus má théann muid tríd na ceannteidil ar na Mheastacháin seo sílim gur céim síos mór an ceannteideal "Íocaíocht le Ciste na Gaeilge".

Anuraidh sna Meastacháin cuireadh £2.273 milliún ar fáil faoin cheannteideal sin, agus is í an áit a dtéann an t-airgead sin ná chuig na heagraíochtaí deonacha atá ag plé leis an Ghaeilge, eagraíochtaí cosúil le Comhdháil Náisiúnta na Gaeilge, Conradh na Gaeilge agus, an-tábhachtach ar fad, Bord na Gaeilge, na heagraíochtaí seo agus na daoine seo a bhfuil sé de chúram orthu an Ghaeilge a chur chun cinn agus scéimeanna agus pleananna a chur ar bun ar mhaithe leis an Ghaeilge, nach bhfuil aon airgead curtha ar fáil dóibh sna Meastacháin i mbliana. Agus is é an míniú atá tugtha i Leabhar na Meastachán air sin ná gur féidir leo a bheith ag súil le hairgead as an chrannchur náisiúnta.

Le tamall anuas tá go leor daoine agus go leor eagraíochtaí agus go leor Ranna ag brath ar an chrannchur náisiúnta, agus ní shílim go bhfuil sé maith go leor go mbeadh na heagraíochtaí agus Ciste na Gaeilge ag brath ar airgead ón chrannchur náisiúnta. Ar dtús, sílim gur ísliú céime é nach bhfuil aon rud curtha ar fáil don Ghaeilge faoin cheannteideal sin. Tharla an rud céanna anuraidh chomh fada agus a bhain sé le cúrsaí óige agus cúrsaí spóirt, ach ar a laghad tá siadsan ar ais arís sna Meastacháin i mbliana. Na daoine atá ag obair sna heagraíochtaí seo agus ag plé leis na heagraíochtaí seo, tá sé an-deacair pleananna agus scéimeanna agus aidhmeanna a dhéanamh amach faoi choinne na bliana seo chugainn nuair nach bhfuil an t-eolas cruinn acu cad é an méid airgid a bheidh ar fáil dóibh.

Chomh maith leis sin, sílim go bhfuil rud níos measa, mar tá sé ráite, agus tá sé inghlachta leis go coitianta anois, má tá fonn ort airgead a fháil as an chrannchur náisiúnta, go gcaithfidh an tAire nó an tAire Stáit nó an Teachta Dála a bheith sásta tacaíocht a thabhairt duit, agus más mar sin atá an scéal, sílim go bhfuil contúirt mhór go bhféadfadh sé seo cur isteach ar neamhspleáchas na n-eagraíochtaí seo agus go bhféadfadh siad a rá leo féin "Is fearr dúinn gan aon rud a dhéanamh a chuirfeas isteach ar an Rialtas, nó ar an Aire, nó b'fhéidir nach mbeidh mórán le fáil againn as an chrannchur náisiúnta faoi choinne chur ar ár gcumas ár gcuid oibre a dhéanamh". Sílim, mar a dúirt mé, go laghdaíonn sé neamhspleáchas na n-eagraíochtaí. Is é seo an chéad uair a tharla sé agus tá súil agam gurb é seo an uair dheireanach a tharlóidh sé, mar tá míshásamh mór i measc na n-eagraíochtaí seo faoi nach bhfuil aon rud curtha ar fáil dóibh sna Meastacháin.

Gné eile de Mheastachán Roinn na Gaeltachta ná an teorainn atá leis an mhéid airgid atá curtha ar fáil do na coláistí Gaeilge. Tá a fhios agam go dtuigeann an mhórchuid de na Teachtaí an tábhacht atá leis na coláistí Gaeilge. Is dócha gur beag duine nach ndearna freastal ar na coláistí Gaeilge sa Ghaeltacht nuair a bhí siad ag dul ar scoil nó nuair a bhí siad ag dul tríd an chóras oideachais, agus is mór an cuidiú é do eacnamaíocht na Gaeltachta. Anuraidh tharla dhá rud, sílim, a chuir isteach go mór ar na coláistí agus ar ghluaiseacht na gcoláistí Gaeilge. Uimhir a haon, cuireadh teorainn leis an mhéid daltaí a raibh sé de chead acu dul go dtí na coláistí seo. Dúradh anuraidh nach mbeadh cead níos mó a dhul i 1988 ná mar a chuaigh i 1987, agus chuir sé sin isteach go mór ar fhorbairt na gcoláistí Gaeilge, agus sílim gur olc an polasaí ar fad é má táimid dáiríre maidir le cur chun cinn na Gaeilge, go gcuirfí teorainn agus cosc agus stop le daltaí ón chuid eile den tír ag dul go dtí an Ghaeltacht agus freastal a dhéanamh ar na cúrsaí sin.

I mbliana ní shílim, de réir na Meastachán seo go bhfuil feabhas ar bith ar an scéal, mar níl aon ardú curtha nó níl aon bhreis airgid tugtha don cheannteideal sin, agus de réir cosúlachta beidh an scéal mar an gcéanna arís. An dara rud, ar ndóigh, a tharla do na coláistí Gaeilge anuraidh, agus baineann sé seo leis na mná tí, gur tugadh isteach sa chóras cánach iad. Anois, tá a fhios againn go bhfuil fonn ar an Rialtas gach pingin chánach dar féidir leo a thabhairt isteach agus bhí tacaíocht ón taobh seo den Teach le fáil acu sna giorruithe atá déanta go dtí seo. Ach mar sin féin, nuair a bhí ar na mná tí nach raibh aon teacht isteach eile acu na foirmeacha seo a shíniú sílim gur chuir sé ag machnamh iad, agus chuir sé saghas eagla orthu. Ní hé nach bhfuil siad sásta a gcuid cánacha a íoc ach nach dtaitníonn sé leo a bheith ag líonadh na bhfoirmeacha seo, agus ba mhaith liom, am éigin, go ndéanfadh an tAire nó an tAire Stáit tagairt don cheist sin.

Gné eile den Ghaeltacht agus de Meastachán Roinn na Gaeltachta ná an caiteachas atá á chur ar fáil do Údarás na Gaeltachta, agus, mar atá a fhios againn, is ar Údarás na Gaeltachta atá freagracht fostaíocht agus postanna agus monarchana agus tionscail a bhunú sna ceantair Ghaeltachta, agus inniu féin cuireadh tuairisc bhliantúil 1987 ar fáil ag an Údarás. Tá éirithe go maith leo ó bunaíodh iad i 1980 a gcuid cuspóirí agus a gcuid aidhmeanna a chur i gcrích. Gach bliain ó 1980 tá éirithe le hÚdarás na Gaeltachta breis fostaíochta agus breis postanna a chruithú sna ceantair Ghaeltachta, agus d'éirigh leo é sin a dhéanamh mar go bhfuil na feidhmeannaigh agus an Bord ag obair go crua, agus mar a dúirt mé, d'éirigh leo an rud céanna a dhéanamh i 1987.

Sílim go bhféadfadh athrú a bheith ar an scéal i 1988 agus go speisialta sa bhliain seo chugainn, 1989. An caiteachas caipitil a cuireadh ar fáil do Údarás na Gaeltachta i mbliana, 1988, bhí sé 13 faoin gcéad níos ísle ná an méid a fuair siad i 1987, agus an caiteachas atá curtha ar fáil dó i Leabhar na Meastachán os mo chomhair anseo faoi choinne 1989, tá titim eile 13 faoin gcéad, is é sin, le dhá bhliain go bhfuil caiteachas caipitil do Údarás na Gaeltachta íslithe 26 faoin gcéad. Is é an toradh atá air sin, i mbliana ó mhí na Bealtaine seo caite nach raibh sé ar chumas Údarás na Gaeltachta aon tionscnamh nua a cheadú don Ghaeltacht. Bhí cosc nó stop ar fad le haon tionscnamh a cheadú, le haon phostanna a chruthú sna ceantair Ghaeltachta. Agus sin mar atá an scéal i láthair na huaire.

Má chuireann tú é sin i gcomparáid le húdaráis eile forbartha ar fud na tíre ní hamhlaidh atá an scéal. Tá airgead go leor acu agus tá siad ag cruthú postanna sa chuid eile den tír, ach sa Ghaeltacht tá cosc ar fad i láthair na huaire ar aon phostanna a chruthú. Chomh maith leis sin, cé go ndeir sé i Leabhar na Meastachán go bhfuil ardú 23 faoin gcéad ar an chaiteachas reatha i mbliana, ní hamhlaidh atá an scéal. Is é fírinne an scéil go bhfuil ísliú ar an chaiteachas reatha fosta, beagnach 3 faoin gcéad, mar ní dhéantar tagairt i Leabhar na Meastachán gur tugadh £450,000 sa bhreis i rith na bliana seo thar mar a bhí luaite i Leabhar na Meastachán i 1988. Mar sin, tá titim ar an chaiteachas reatha chomh maith leis an chaiteachas chaipitil; agus, mar a dúirt mé, cuirfidh sé sin isteach go mór ar chuid oibre an Udaráis agus ar éifeacht an Údaráis. Níos luaithe sa bhliain bhí sé mar chúis áthais dúinn uilig gur tugadh breis freagrachta don Údarás agus gur tugadh freagracht dóibh i bhfeirmeoireacht éisc. Anois, cosnaíonn sé seo go leor airgid agus ní shílim go bhfuil aon mhaitheas freagracht mar sin a thabhairt don Údarás mura bhfuilimid sásta an t-airgead a chur ar fáil dóibh faoi choinne na hoibre atá le déanamh.

Ba mhaith liom tagairt a dhéanamh don ísliú atá ar an mhéid airgid a tugadh don Roinn Comhshaoil, Roinn an-tábhachtach, agus go speisialta an t-ísliú tubaisteach, i mo thuairim, ar an mhéid airgid a fuair siad i gcomhair tithíochta, tithe úra a thógáil agus feabhas a chur ar na tithe atá ansin cheana féin. Tháinig titim 20 faoin gcéad ar an airgead sin, ó £49 milliún go dtí £39 milliún, agus is é an chiall atá leis sin gur beag teach úr a bheas ar chumas na nÚdarás Áitiúil sa chathair nó faoin tuaith nó in aon pháirt den tír a thógáil i mbliana. Chomh fada agus a bhaineann sé le mo chontae féin, is tubaisteach ar fad an scéal é sin, mar go bhfuil géarchéim tithíochta i dTír Chonaill i láthair na huaire. Tá 4,000 nó 5,000 duine ag fanacht le tithe, agus de réir na Meastachán seo is beag dul chun cinn a dhéanfar air sin sa bhliain seo chugainn. Bhí an scéal go dona i mbliana. Is beag teach a tógadh, agus is cinnte go dtógfar i bhfad níos lú an bhliain seo chugainn.

Chomh maith leis sin, tá titim mhór ar an mhéid airgid atá curtha ar fáil le haghaidh fheabhsúcháin ar thithe, titim 49 faoin gcéad. Agus an Comhrialtas, ceann de na scéimeanna is fearr agus a chuir siad ar bun ná an deontas feabhsúcháin tí, agus baineadh úsáid as go forleathan ar fud na tíre, sa chathair agus sa tuaith. Rinneadh feabhsúcháin ar a lán tithe, chuir sé fostaíocht ar fáil. Cuireadh deireadh go tobann leis an scéim sin, agus chuir sé sin isteach ar fhostaíocht, agus feicim go bhfuil níos lú airgid i mbliana ná mar a bhí anuraidh ná na blianta a chuaigh roimhe sin.

Titim mhór eile ar chaiteachas sa Roinn sin ná an caiteachas ar sholáthar uisce agus séarachas, thíos 13 faoin gcéad. Cuirfidh sé sin isteach go mór ar oibreacha atá beartaithe ag na hÚdaráis Áitiúla ar fud na tíre. Tá a fhios againn go léir an tábhacht atá le soláthar ceart uisce a bheith ar fáil i ngach ceantar. Tá sé an-tábhachtach chomh fada agus a bhaineann sé le forbairt tionscail. Tá sé tábhachtach chomh fada agus a bhaineann sé le forbairt na hiascaireachta, agus i mo cheantar féin sna Cealla Beaga tá sé an-tábhachtach chomh fada agus a bhaineann sé le forbairt thionscal na hiascaireachta agus próiseáil an éisc. I láthair na huaire sna calafoirt, sna Cealla Beaga go mórmhór, tá an-ghanntanas uisce ansin, agus is deacair forbairt a dhéanamh ar phróiseáil éisc, mar go bhfuil siad ag brath go mór ar sholáthar ceart uisce. Tá titim mar an gcéanna ar an chaiteachas a bhaineann le scéimeanna feabhsúcháin tithe sa Ghaeltacht, agus, mar a dúirt mé, seo an dara bliain as a chéile ar tharla sé. Cuireann sé iontas mór orainn uilig gur mar sin atá an scéal.

Tá a fhios againn go bhfuil an Taoiseach é féin mar Aire Gaeltachta, agus cé nach bhfuil sé linn an tseachtain seo tá súil againn go mbeidh sé i mbarr a shláinte agus anseo gan mhoill arís, sa dóigh is go mbeidh muid ábalta ceist a chur air féin go díreach cad é atá i gceist aige chomh fada agus a bhaineann sé leis an Ghaeltacht, an bhfuil sé dáiríe faoin Roinn in aon chor, nó cad é an dearcadh atá aige? Nuair a ghlac sé an cúram seo air féin bliain go leith ó shin bhí go leor againn den bharúil go raibh ré úr i ndán don Ghaeltacht, agus do Údarás na Gaeltachta agus don Ghaeilge, agus choinnigh muid ár gcomhairle againn féin ag an uair sin, choinnigh muid ár gcuid méar trasna ar a chéile agus muid ag súil leis an lá go rachadh rudaí i bhfeabhas. Ach is eagal liom gur a mhalairt a tharla, agus mar a dúirt mé, ar na Meastacháin atá curtha os ár gcomhair ag an am seo tá siad i bhfad níos measa ná, fiú amháin, mar a bhí an scéal anuraidh.

Is iad na fadhbanna móra a fheicimse atá againn i láthair na huaire sa tír ná an uimhir ard atá dífhostaithe, agus chomh maith leis sin an uimhir daoine atá ag dul ar imirce, 30,000 nó 40,000 duine sa bhliain, a lán acu seo an-óg, agus as gach páirt den tír, agus sílim gur beag ar fad atá i Leabhar na Meastachán seo a thabharfaidh faoi na fadhbanna sin a réiteach i mbliana, agus de réir chosúlachta is ag dul in olcas a bheas na fadhbanna sin i rith 1989, mura dtagann athrú ar chúrsaí nó ar na pleananna atá beartaithe.

Minister of State at the Department of Energy (Mr. Smith)

The publication of the 1989 Abridged Estimates Volume and of the 1989 Summary Capital Programme at this time of the year, which is earlier than had come to be the practice, is a reflection of this Government's commitment to reducing the level of public expenditure and to enabling constructive debate on its policies in this House. It is now generally accepted that the growth in the level of public expenditure in previous years could not have been allowed to continue. The procedure adopted by this Government of carrying out detailed reviews of the spending programmes during the summer, followed by detailed examination of each Department's Estimate proposals has identified areas of possible savings resulting in reductions amounting to £311 million compared to what expenditure would have been in the absence of these measures.

This careful management of our public finances has lowered our interest rates; the prime overdraft rate, for instance, has come down from 14 per cent in March 1987 to 8 per cent in September 1988. Our industries have been made more competitive. We are now close to a situation where the debt-GNP ratio can be stabilised and reduced to a sustainable level.

In the timber industry, as in other sectors of the economy, we have seen a remarkable increase in business confidence in two years. This is translating into increased investment, output and employment. Together with Coillte Teoranta, the new forestry company, we now have all the ingredients for the future prosperity of this industry.

This Government have targeted forestry as a key national development activity, recognising, as they do, the major contribution forestry can make to economic prosperity and to regional and social development.

Since coming into office the Government have implemented a firm action plan for forestry development. The results of their efforts are now to be seen: in 1988 a record 10,000 hectares of State planting was achieved; private planting in 1988 will be about 5,000 hectares, 15 times the 1983 level and Coillte Teoranta which will run State forestry activities is shortly to be launched. Our expectations for this company are high. I will expand on them later.

While much progress has been made, much remains to be done. In particular we must aim to expand considerably the area under forest in Ireland. At present only 6 per cent of our area is under forest compared to an EC average of 24 per cent.

Both the State and private sectors will have crucial roles to play in meeting national planting targets. As I have mentioned earlier, private planting, as actively encouraged by this Government has increased dramatically in recent years. It can be expected therefore that the private sector will assume an increasing proportion of national planting. At the same time, the State sector, which for many years has taken the lead in the implementation of Government planting policies, will also make an important contribution.

A key element of the Government's Programme for National Recovery is the encouragement of private investment in forestry. Since taking office the Government have actively promoted the expansion of forestry through increased planting in both the State and private sectors. Last year the State planted 8,000 hectares. This, combined with private planting of 3,200 hectares, gave a record national planting level of over 11,000 hectares, a level never previously achieved in the history of the State. This was increased in 1988 with the State planting 10,000 hectares and 5,000 hectares being planted by the private sector. An even more ambitious programme will be achieved in 1989.

Positive steps are being taken to sustain the momentum which has built up in private forestry in recent years. The various grant schemes have been improved and extended. The main development has been the revision of the western package forestry scheme with effect from 1 July 1988. This scheme is now available to private planters in all the disadvantaged areas of the country. This extension in the coverage of the scheme benefits an additional 500,000 hectares of land and will ensure a further expansion of private afforestation in 1989. Under the scheme, farmers qualify for afforestation grants of 85 per cent of costs and non-farmers qualify for 70 per cent of costs subject, in both cases, to a limit of £800 per hectare. Grants of up to £12 per metre for the construction or reconstruction of forest roads are also available. In the past, these grants were financed equally by the State and the EC. However, 70 per cent of the cost of these grants is now available from the EC. This welcome development reduces substantially the cost of grants to the Exchequer and enables the maintenance of a high private planting programme at a low net cost to the State.

As well as the western package, there are a number of other schemes in operation. A special farm forestry scheme launched earlier this year makes grants for afforestation, forest roads and woodland improvements available to farmers in all parts of the country. The afforestation grants range from £550 per hectare for conifers to £850 per hectare for broadleaves and 25 per cent EC assistance is available. The State private planting grant scheme provides grants of £500 per hectare for conifers and £800 per hectare for broadleaves and satisfies the needs of non-farmers outside the disadvantaged areas. Finally, farmers in receipt of headage payments for livestock can continue to receive such payments for 15 years if they afforest all or part of their land. These payments are provided for under the Vote for the Department of Agriculture and Food.

The allocation of £4.1 million in the Abridged Estimates Volume is a 100 per cent increase on the original 1988 provision and will finance the grant-aiding of over 6,500 hectares of private planting in 1989 and over 8,000 metres of private forest roads. This level of expenditure in 1989 will generate £2.7 million in EC funding towards the grants. It will also generate employment in forest establishment work and ensure the maintenance of jobs in private nurseries and forestry contracting companies. The increased level of afforestation resulting from the 1989 allocation will lead in time to increased national output in the form of domestic timber production, with attendant economic and employment benefits.

It is obvious, therefore, that both the State and private sectors will be essential elements in the implementation of an accelerated forestry programme. It is also clear that such a programme must receive substantial EC funding. Forestry as an activity uniquely meets all the current major policy objectives of the EC in areas of regional and national development.

The Programme for National Recovery committed this Government to a major drive to increase the level of EC funding for forestry. I have to say that it is a source of disappointment to me that to date the EC does not provide direct grant assistance for State planting. In saying this I wish to acknowledge the assistance by the EC for private planting, particularly under the western package. As I have mentioned earlier, however, both the State and private sectors have a major role in achieving national planting targets. In the current adjustment of the EC structural funds, therefore, the Government are pressing very strongly that EC funding should be made available to the two sectors. In their view any other approach by the EC would be discriminatory.

The initiatives taken have already yielded substantial results. Last January the Regional Development Fund committed £8.1 million for road construction in State forests — the first time that this fund has injected substantial resources in mainstream forestry activities. Last November the European Investment bank approved loans totalling about £28 million for forestry projects.

Notwithstanding these substantial achievements, work continues with the objective of having forestry programmes in general, both State and private, accepted as activities which can receive funding from the structural funds. Success in this area will transform the financing of Irish forestry programmes and allow continued expansion of the national forest estate while reducing the burden on the Irish Exchequer. This objective is being rigorously pursued in the context of the ongoing discussions on the reform of the structural funds and in the context of the proposal for a strategy and action programme which Commissioner Andriessen has this month forwarded to the Council of Ministers.

I am glad to be able to report that progress is also being made in this area. The strategy for Forestry provides for substantial increases in the level of EC aid for forestry programmes. In the medium term a 3.6 fold increase in the level of EC funds devoted to forestry between 1989 and 1993 is envisaged. The Commission's strategy also recognises, for the first time, the role that public forestry can play in the development of this sector. This is of immense importance to Ireland where State forestry has played such an important role, indeed the predominant role, in Irish forestry development. While I am more than satisfied with the progress made to date in relation to the EC some problems remain. Chief among these is the relative scarcity of funds proposed for forestry in the years to 1992. These are not sufficient to meet the demands of expanded private and State forestry programmes. In negotiations with the EC over the coming months I will be concentrating on pressing for increased aid from the Structural funds for forestry in these years.

Forestry receipts are expected to reach £27.5 million in 1989 compared to a figure of £16 million in 1986. The bulk of this revenue will derive from sales of sawlog to the sawmilling industry and of pulpwood to the two main pulpwood processors Medite and Finsa. The highest ever volume of timber, at just under 1.5 million cubic metres, is expected to be sold in 1988 which represents an increase of 100,000 cubic metres on 1987. This record level of sales will be repeated in 1989. The top grade sawmills are all achieving record throughputs and Irish timber dominates the domestic market and holds an estimated 60 per cent share, up 10 per cent on last year.

As part of the Forest Service's objective of ensuring continuity of supply to the sawmill industry and to allow the industry to plan output and marketing strategies more effectively, a number of amendments to existing sales methods were introduced during the year, including the introduction of a quota scheme for small sawlog and the marketing of an additional 50,000 cubic metres of premium sawlog.

A quota scheme for large sawlog was first introduced in 1981 with the objectives of improving industrial efficiency, achieving further added value, and contributing to import substitution in the construction sector. The scheme was revised in 1986, placing greater emphasis on the standard of sawing, drying, grading and presentation of timber.

Although the possibility of extending the scheme to sawmills with production lines concentrated around the use of small sawlog has been under consideration since 1984, it was only last year that supply constraints had eased sufficiently to allow the introduction of a pilot scheme. A full scheme is in operation in 1988 and should help to further improve the image of Irish sawnwood.

The time is ripe to develop a sectoral marketing strategy and to this end I have set up a task force on the marketing of timber and timber products. The task force will be charged with developing greater expertise and a more aggressive approach in the marketing of timber and gaining new markets at home and abroad. The Irish Timber Council, the IDA and Coillte Teoranta are represented on the task force and will report to me on a regular basis. I would like to stress that I have never been prepared to accept second best and there should be no doubt in anyone's mind but that quality products which meet the highest standards are the only ones which are acceptable to me. From the beginning of 1989 we will show that we mean what we say and all structural softwood timbers — both Irish and imported — will have to meet the requirements set down in the EOLAS Standard Recommendation — SR 11/88.

A number of studies are now in train which, when completed, will enable me to announce a strategy for the development of the timber industry to the year 2000. This strategy will cover the pulpwood and sawmill sectors and will be the most comprehensive document ever produced for the timber industry. In the meantime, I am pleased to announce that the IDA, following consultation with my Department and the Irish Timber Council, have adopted an interim strategy for the sawmill industry. The strategy is aimed at encouraging investment in mills which have the capacity to process at least 25,000 cubic metres per annum, meet the highest standards and are export-oriented.

The essential element of all these strategies is to ensure that the future development of the Irish timber sector is focused sharply on the needs of the Irish and international market places. By putting the emphasis on market driven development and by using all the resources of the State, including the IDA and their company development programme, CTT and their Marketing Programmes, Eolas and their Technology Programmes, the Forest Service and their planting, silvicultural and marketing programmes, the industry as a whole can more easily prepare itself for the challenge and opportunities of 1992.

This country is entering a new era of prosperity. I intend to ensure that the timber industry prospers and — let me make it clear to everyone — I expect the State, through Coillte Teoranta, to share in that prosperity and to get a full return for the very substantial investment by the State in the past.

In addition, other markets are also being exploited including the sales of transmission poles to the ESB and Telecom Éireann and for many years the Forest Service has been the principal supplier of Douglas fir and larch poles to these companies. It is expected that Coillte Teoranta will continue in this role and obviate the need for these firms to import poles. Although the species currently used for pole production are minority species it is hoped that research currently being undertaken will identify additional suitable species for use as transmission pole material.

The approaching Christmas season provides a timely reminder that the Forest Service have traditionally been the main supplier of Christmas trees to the home market. Norway Spruce was the traditional species used in Irish homes but in the last few years the species has been relegated to third place in popularity behind Noble Fir and Lodgepole Pine. In 1987 the first ever national auction of Christmas trees was held and was an outstanding success. I intend to repeat the practice this year and expect that this will form part of the strategy for Christmas tree sales in future years. In addition to the auction, the Forest Service will sell trees on a retail and wholesale basis throughout the country. I expect such sales to realise £0.75 million in 1988 and for this to be increased in future years.

Sales of decorative foliage have been a very minor element of the Forest Service's activities up to now and the vast bulk of the material has been exported in a raw state to the Continent. The principal species has been Noble fir which is mainly used for the manufacture of Advent wreaths in Germany. This year a number of customers prepared to manufacture the wreaths here have been identified and will export the finished product to Europe. Apart from the additional revenue accruing to the Forest Service, this marketing success has provided extra jobs here and I hope it can be developed into a year round operation.

The most exciting development this year will be the launching of Coillte Teoranta. The Bill setting up this company passed both Houses of the Oireachtas just before the summer recess. I would like to acknowledge the many helpful contributions which were made from all sides during the passage of the Bill. A deep interest in forestry was evident from these contributions.

The publication of the Abridged Estimates Volume and 1989 Summary Capital Programme is another stage in the metamorphosis taking place within the Forest Service as they prepare to exploit their full potential in the commercial arena. The Abridged Estimates Volume, in so far as it relates to expenditure by the new company, Coillte Teoranta, includes only current expenditure. Prior to the publication of the post-budget 1989 Revised Estimates volume, appropriate adjustments will be made to the existing subheads to provide a new grant-in-aid for Coillte Teoranta.

The company's capital expenditure on their planting programme will be financed through non-voted Exchequer funding in the form of £15 million equity and from own resources. The level of funding will enable the company to complete a 10,000 hectares planting programme in 1989 and to build up a land reserve in preparation for future planting.

It has been a great pleasure and privilege for me to oversee the developments towards the establishment of Coillte Teoranta in what I certainly regard as one of the most significant years in the history of forestry in Ireland.

The principal State policy in regard to afforestation in Ireland has, up to quite recently, been to establish a million acres of forest. That target has now been achieved. It has been achieved by the dedicated efforts of many many people down through the years whose expertise, professionalism and administration have contributed to the establishment of a great national resource which has generated many tens of thousands of jobs directly and indirectly in the forestry and timber industries in this country. The availability of this resource now gives the country the opportunity to harvest the rewards of those efforts and the investments made over many years.

While it was appropriate and indeed necessary that the development stage of forestry over the past 80 years should be carried out through direct State intervention, it is also appropriate that we move now to a new and commercial structrue to ensure that the rewards are harvested to the best advantage of the State. It was for that reason the Government decided to create a private company who would have the freedom and capacity to commercially exploit the forests and would be given onerous targets to achieve in doing so.

I would like to make it quite clear that I intend the company to have the fullest possible freedom to pursue those targets and that my role and the role of my Department will not be one of interference but one of support and co-operation. Equally, however, by monitoring their performance, I intend to ensure that they are achieving the targets which will be set for them. The vast investments made by the taxpayers down through the years requires that I should do no less.

The company will commence operations with a vast asset resource and a future production schedule which practically guarantees a cash break-even point within the next decade. I will not be impressed, therefore, to know that in the next decade they have managed to achieve a cash break-even situation. I will, however, be impressed to know that they have achieved it ahead of schedule through increased efficiency and effectiveness and that their balance sheet and profit and loss account reflect profitable operations.

In essence the objective of the Government in establishing the new company is to ensure that State forestry will be run on a commercial basis and with optimum efficiency. The new company will be expected to operate on the same lines and to the same criteria as a private company. The structure of the present organisation is, I believe, in need of examination to ensure that they have the best fit for the new commercial environment and to fully exploit the opportunities of the future. It is probable that such an examination will lead to a streamlining of all or part of the present structure and a general reorientation of attitude and procedures toward cost-effective management and greater efficiency in operations. I shall expect them to carry out such an examination as early as possible.

I am very conscious of the strains on the organisation and on the staff of the Forest Service at such a time of change. While there are problems, I believe there are also opportunities which they have shown in the past they are capable of grasping and utilising. I would like to say to them now that I, and I believe all people in this country, are proud of their many achievements, in pioneering and developing a vast forest asset. No less than in the early days of forestry in Ireland, I believe it is again a time of opportunity and I have every confidence in their capacity to fashion a new and successful organisation to take forestry into the next phase of its development.

The vesting day for the company will be 1 January 1989, and all necessary preparations are being undertaken at present to facilitate a smooth transfer of operations to Coillte Teoranta on that date. I look forward to the appointment of the board and the Chief Executive of the company in the very near future.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I think the House would agree to an extra half a minute for the Minister.

Mr. Smith

Thank you. These are exciting times for Irish forestry, both in the State and private areas. I think we can look forward with great confidence to maintaining the impetus which has recently been generated. Forestry is a priceless national asset. It is up to us to realise the potential of that asset, both for our sake and for the benefit of future generations.

There may be cynics who would question our aspirations for forestry. Let me say to them that cynicism never created one extra job or exploited one commercial opportunity. Cynicism can do much but it can never put a permanent brake on the development of new and creative ideas. Cynicism represents the byways of the past. The new ideas represent the highways of the future through which the implementation of development measures, of which forestry is an integral part, will help to put this country on the road to success.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Chair acknowledge the characteristic co-operation and understanding of Deputy O'Keeffe.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

The Minister is not the worst of them. Detailed analysis of the Book of Estimates has already demonstrated clearly that the cutting edge of the Government on public expenditure has been severely blunted. It is clear that many of the alleged cuts are phony, and many savings have been achieved by way of figure juggling or additional taxation. It is also clear that job creation has a very low priority with this Government and that the poor and unemployed can expect no relief while this Government last. Last year the Central Bank funded voluntary retirement scheme was off balance sheet. This year it is included. Why? A lower draw down in 1989 is classified as a saving. That seems to be the only reason for the change and it is now classified as a cut in expenditure. Again, we have in other areas semi-State borrowing instead of the Exchequer. Are these real cuts or mere figure juggling? I suggest they fall into the latter category.

From the point of view of additional taxation, we have quite a number of examples and I will mention just a few. The cut in the rate support grant will inevitably lead to increased local charges, so also will the cut in the allocation for school transport. They are just a few of many examples in the Book of Estimates.

Perhaps the most obnoxious impact of this approach is in the area of social welfare where increased payroll taxes will inevitably damage our job creation prospects. The words of the Minister for Finance earlier today ring hollow when this saving is examined. He stated during his speech: "Make no mistake, the Government regard unemployment as their No. 1 priority." It is pure nonsense to proclaim that as a central Government objective there is the objective of reducing unemployment while at the same time imposing additional taxation on employment. The payroll taxes cannot be considered in any other light. I suggest that it is clearly timed to genuinely establish job creation as our number one social objective. We should not just pay lip service to it but take the necessary radical measures to reform and gear our tax and social welfare system towards that objective.

Before I turn to the Estimate on Social Welfare let me refer to the continued decimation of the capital budget. I accept it is a soft target, but it has been continually trimmed over the past number of years. The capital budget is the main State vehicle for the encouragement of job creation. How then can a Government genuinely committed to job creation follow the line of approach which it has followed in these Estimates? The Estimates purport to establish £118 million in current expenditure cuts. Let me say straight away that I accept that we will make no real progress on either the economic or social front until we restore national solvency, but within the overall figures I have to question the focus on social welfare. Effectively what has happened is that there has been a cut in social welfare of £88.5 million. Consider that in the context of the total figure of alleged cuts or savings on the current budget side. Effectively that amounts to 75 per cent of the total figure of £118 million by way of reductions on the current side which is achieved by a combination of reduced expenditure and increased payroll and other taxes. I would have to seriously question the commitment of this Government to the poor and the under-privileged and in particular to the unemployed when there is such an enormous focus of attention on the Department who have a particular responsibility for looking after people in that area. Essentially 75 per cent of the overall savings are focused on that Department.

I have already touched on the question of the increased payroll taxes. Nobody will deny the impact of these increases on employment and on job creation. Perhaps it is significant that the Minister for Social Welfare in his statement on the day the Estimates were published, evaded the point. It is now clear that obfuscation is becoming the hallmark of this Government. He issued a two page script and he referred to the reason for the lower Estimate for his Department. He referred to the significant reduction in the numbers claiming unemployment but did not, of course, mention the thousands who are emigrating. He did refer to the fact that there was to be a reduction and referred to other aspects which would bring about the savings within his Department, including the additional taxation that would accrue from the fact that there was an increase in the PRSI for the self employed and that it would apply for the full year. Surprisingly he did not refer at all to the proposed increases in payroll taxes. It is only really by a process of leaking or questioning by the media that it has since been elicited that it is proposed to increase PRSI limits for the employee by £500 and that there is to be a dramatic increase in the employer RSI limit to £20,000. Surely the Minister must have been aware of the impact that would have on employment. I presume that is the reason he did not refer to it in his statement. It is certainly attempting to evade the issue not to even touch on that aspect in his statement on the day the Estimates were published.

There is clearly a contradiction between what the Minister for Finance had to say today and the actions he is pursuing. We on this side of the House quite justly and legitimately criticised that approach because we believe in job creation. We are also prepared to propose the necessary measures which will encourage job creation be they in the tax or the social welfare area. In the social welfare area it is quite clear that the employer contribution as it is based at present is a significant disincentive for firms to take on additional employees. That is why we in Fine Gael are advocating the adoption of a new approach to employer RSI contributions. We believe that such contributions should be based on turnover and not collected as they are at present. If our approach is adopted we will see a shift of the burden from labour intensive to capital intensive industries. We will also see a reduction in the cost of employing additional people and, of course, there will be an incidental benefit of a greater contribution from the multinational sector. That approach is in stark contrast to the approach adopted by the present Government.

Again in relation to RSI for the employee we believe that for low paid workers, and indeed to encourage more people to take the jump from social welfare into employment, that the first £3,000 of RSI for the employee should be abolished. One might ask how it will be paid for. Our first proposal is self financing because one would charge an amount on turnover which will bring in about £600 million that at present comes in from employer RSI. In relation to the second proposal I would be prepared to accept the removal of the upper income limit. An alternative strategy would be to totally integrate the employee RSI with the tax system as essentially it is a tax on employees, but we have seen no new approach, no creative thinking. The only reaction from this Government is to increase the take first from the employee but to an enormous degree from the employer. How can we expect employers to take on extra people when that is the attitude of this Government?

I will not have time to go into the Estimate in detail but it is relevant to refer to the figure for the family income supplement. The figure last year was £5,300,000; it is exactly the same for 1989. I see the family income supplement as a bridge between those on social welfare and those in low paid employment. It is clear from recent reports, particularly the combat poverty report based on the ESRI survey and the documents of the Conference of Major Religious Superiors that there has been a very low uptake of this supplement, not more than 50 per cent. If there is a belief that the family income supplement is an encouragement to cross the bridge from being on social welfare to taking up a job it is clear that a number of issues have to be tackled. The first is the low uptake. There must be an analysis of the reasons for that low uptake and an effort must be made to ensure that there is a much fuller uptake. Again, it is clear from the Estimates that there is no such intention on the part of this Administration.

Secondly, it is very obvious that it will be necessary to improve the workings of the family income supplement. The report of the Combat Poverty Agency recommended the improving of the workings of the FIS through such measures as removing the limit on the maximum payment and calculating the payments on net rather than gross income. They also recommended the provision of better information about this scheme. While the Government may not totally accept those proposals what they must accept is that there are problems with that scheme. There are problems in regard to the way it is being operated, there are problems in regard to low uptake but the Government are evading this issue. It is an important instrument which could be used in job creation.

In relation to supplementary welfare the same Combat Poverty Agency report referred to the very significant fact that even with the low level of payment, about £37.80 for a single person and £63 for a married couple, one person in ten falls below the supplementary welfare income level. They are the poorest of the poor. Why is this? A number of reasons have been put forward. What are the Government doing about it? Surely, if we have any interest in helping the weakest in our society, be they the handicapped, the old or the underprivileged or whatever those marvellous noticeboards used to say a couple of years ago before the last election, our attention must be focused on those on the bottom rung of the ladder, in fact on those below the bottom rung of the ladder. There is no indication in these Estimates——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is Deputy O'Keeffe contemplating the use of the word "finally"?

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

Am I running out of time?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Almost.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

There are many other things that I would like to say in regard to this Estimate tonight but I had not realised that I had run out of time. In general I believe that the Government have lost their sense of direction——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

In suggesting the word "finally" I was indicating that the Deputy had two or three minutes left.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

Thank you, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle. I will use that time to highlight a couple of other aspects. I was referring to supplementary welfare. It seems that there has been a change on the part of the Government in this regard. No effort has been made to reach the poorest of the poor. This particular system is used to help the long term unemployed and others with their ESB bills and other difficulties and it would appear that pressure is now being applied to reduce the level of those relieving payments.

When talking about the social welfare system we are talking about a highly complex system. We also need to focus on the administration costs of that system which are very high indeed. Part of the reason for this is the complexity of the system. The system needs to be simplified and apart from the benefits of this to recipients it would also result in considerably reduced administration costs. It is difficult to ascertain what exactly the administration costs are because according to the Book of Estimates the provision for salaries, wages and allowances amounts to £48.5 million with other administration costs bringing that figure up to about £80 million. Of course what is not referred to is that there are also substantial administration costs in the operation of the Social Insurance Fund. We have no figure for this in the current Estimate. Last year these costs amounted to £67 million. There were also administration costs in respect of the operation of the occupational injuries fund which last year amounted to £3 million. If we add all of these figures together we are talking about a very substantial figure indeed. What is needed is a simplification of the system which would involve the Government in putting some creative thinking into the development of the system. That is absent at present.

I had hoped to refer to the anomalies which are emerging in the new fuel scheme. It is quite clear that new anomalies are emerging and these include the exclusion of many women on low maintenance payments, the exclusion of those on low occupational pensions, the exclusion of those on social security pensions from other countries and, worst of all, it involves the exclusion of hardship cases which were dealt with by the health boards in the past and which are now largely eliminated from the scheme. Worse than that, it is almost impossible to obtain information on the scheme. I tried but failed to obtain details of the circular outlining how the scheme is to be administered. I believe one is in existence and it is outrageous that the spokesman on social welfare for the main Opposition party is unable, despite requests, to obtain that information. I can assure the Minister that I will be pursuing this matter further.

Finally, I submit that the Government have lost their sense of direction. It is very clear what their main objectives should be, ones which we can all subscribe to. We all agree on the need to expand employment, the need to stimulate economic growth, the need to eliminate deprivation in our society and the need to remove inequities from our economic and social system. This Book of Estimates will do nothing whatsoever to achieve those objectives. In conclusion, while being prepared to note the Estimates which are but one half of the balance sheet I reserve judgment on the Government pending sight of the budget figures. Obviously, we will need a full debate on each Estimate, as amended, as soon as possible after the 1989 budget.

Mr. D. Ahern

I am glad to have this opportunity to contribute to this debate but before going on to make my main points I do not think I can let this opportunity pass without referring to some of the comments made by Deputy O'Keeffe. It was laughable to hear some of his comments and those of some of the speakers from the Opposition parties in relation to these Estimates. There is no doubt that one cannot please everyone. Both Fine Gael and the Progressive Democrats have said that we have not cut enough and the parties on the so called Left have said that we have cut far too much. It makes me wonder how the Coalition partners ever got together when we see the stances they have now adopted. Over four and a half years they literally brought the country to its knees.

Earlier Deputy O'Keeffe, referring to the unemployment problem, said there was no commitment on the part of this Government to tackle this area. These are all questions which I am sure the Minister for Social Welfare will be answering but I should point out that in the last budget there were substantial increases for the unemployed in the Social Welfare Estimate. There was an increase of 11 per cent in unemployment assistance.

Deputy O'Keeffe also referred to national solvency but he should remember that during the four and a half years the Coalition Government were in power the national debt increased from £12 billion to £24 billion. On coming into power this Government stopped that rate of increase and it was only through the good offices of the Government over the last 18 months that this was done. I do not accept that there is no commitment on the part of the Government to job creation and the recent published figures have proved beyond all doubt that we have turned the corner for the first time in years. Therefore, it was nonsensical to suggest that there is no commitment on the part of the Government to job creation.

Deputy O'Keeffe also referred to the Estimate for the Department of the Environment and said that there would be increased local charges. In my own county we had our first meeting last Monday in regard to the Estimates. For the first time since I have been on the council we completed our estimates in one meeting. Last year it took nine meetings and the year before eight meetings. The fact is county councils are turning the corner. We did not have to increase our charges as a result of decisions made by this Government over the past 18 months — taking over the charges for ACOT, drainage and the local loans fund.

I congratulate the Minister for bringing the Estimates before the Dáil so quickly for the second consecutive year. This runs counter to the dithering of the Coalition in their four years in office. I understand the last Estimates brought before the Dáil by the Coalition were introduced at the very last minute. I believe one of the reasons the country was going to the wall was the uncertainty in our economy.

Before Fianna Fáil came to power we were laughed at when we said we would bring back confidence into the economy. This we have done and the figures speak for themselves. We have the best trade figures in the EC. We have an export boom. We have a dramatic fall in interest rates, 6 per cent. We hear a lot about the need for tax relief, but a decrease of 6 per cent in interest rates is the best tax relief we can give anybody. Anyone with a mortgage will admit that their repayments have dropped drastically in the last 18 months. That is the result of the good policies implemented by this Government, and this has also had a dramatic effect on county council estimates.

Another phenomenon we had in the bad old days of the Coalition was the black hole. There is no such thing any more. Money is flowing into the country, not out as happened in the days of the Coalition. Inflation is down and that is the best indicator of progress in our economy. There is no doubt that this country has turned the corner and in the next few years we will see even better times. We have one of the best growth figures in the EC. Increased tax receipts is another indicator that economic activity has turned the corner.

I often say the Government can only create a climate within which business will grow, and there is no doubt this Government have done that in the past 18 months. The tax amnesty was tried before. I would like to know from the Deputies opposite why it did not work under the Coalition. Was there no commitment to it then? There certainly is a commitment to it now. This move has been a tremendous success. This raises the question: is there more money out there? In my view, we should carry out an analysis into that £500 million collected because I know people who borrowed before the deadline to pay the money they owed. Will these people be in financial difficulties in the coming years? I hope not. However, this is something that will have to be looked at.

I would ask the Minister for Finance to suggest that the Revenue Commissioners adopt a commonsense approach to the tax amnesty. I have spoken to a number of people who feared that people who hastily submitted documentation before 30 September may be told when the documents have been checked that there is something wrong. I ask that the Revenue Commissioners adopt a commonsense approach to this. I saw with some disquiet that an official of the Revenue Commissioners was suspended recently for writing off £5,000 or thereabouts for a hardship case. Again, I ask that the commissioners take a commonsense approach to cases like this.

As regards the £500 million, the Minister and most people would agree that this is a once-off payment and does not greatly affect our national debt, but we must have a balance between a tax reduction and increased social welfare payments. Most Deputies would agree there is a need to increase social welfare payments. One area the Minister could look at in the forthcoming budget is capital taxation because in my view there is a great deal of scope in this area and this might offset income tax or indirect taxes.

Another area close to my heart and which has caused a lot of disquiet around the country is the sheriffs and the way they operate. The figures issued recently showed different levels of collection from county to county. This should be looked at. Some sheriffs have adopted what I can only regard as bully boy tactics. Most Deputies will have come across instances where sheriffs have used tactics which should never have been allowed. There is a point I wish to put to my friends on the Opposition benches. I question the appointment of these sheriffs. I did not see any advertisement for the appointment. I wonder if this smacks of jobs for the boys, because it is very interesting to note that all these people were appointed in the last throes of the Coalition's period in office. There should be a proper control in sheriffs because I have come across very disquieting cases showing the attitude they adopted to various defaulters. People who owe taxes should pay them, but I believe some of the tactics in certain cases are questionable.

I compliment the Government for introducing self-assessment which is long overdue. Most parties agree with it. The previous Government said they would introduce it some time in the future. However, self-assessment may have been dovetailed too quickly into the tax amnesty deadline. A number of people have been hard pressed to make the payments due before the deadline for the tax amnesty and in a few months they will have to find more money to pay under the self-assessment system. This, too, should be looked at.

As regards social welfare, there is no doubt the budget has been reduced but it has been reduced as a result of good management. It is amazing — and nobody on the Opposition benches has queried this — the amount that has been saved as a result of good management and a tightening up of the procedures in the social welfare system. Despite what Deputy O'Keeffe said, all the rates have increased over the past 18 months, and some of them have increased substantially.

I would ask the Minister for Social Welfare in the run-up to the budget to look at two areas, that is, the payment to single parent families and to married couples with large families. Their payments in recent times have slipped back in comparison with other payments. The Minister for Social Welfare should be given credit for holding the Christmas bonus at the previous rate. I welcome the announcement that the alleviating payments will be retained. I am sure most Members welcome those decisions and they should give credit to the Minister for Social Welfare and the Government for them. I note in the Estimate for Social Welfare that the amount allocated for office premises has been increased substantially, by almost 50 per cent.

Debate adjourned.