Deputies Jim Mitchell and Alan Shatter gave me notice of their intention to raise on the Adjournment the subject matter of the incidence of smog in Dublin. I presume the Deputies will wish to share their time.
Adjournment Debate. - Dublin Smog Incidence.
I confirm that I wish to share my time with Deputy Shatter. I thank you, a Cheann Comhairle, for allowing me to raise this matter on the Adjournment tonight. It is a matter of widespread concern, particularly for those people living in the smoke-controlled zone area in Ballyfermot.
It will be recalled that I have raised this issue in the Dáil on many occasions over the past 18 months — in fact this is the 27th occasion. This is an acute problem in the city, but especially in Ballyfermot. I want to emphasise at the outset of the debate that smog is a serious danger to health. It not only exacerbates illness like asthma, bronchitis, cardiovascular and coronary problems but it may also be a contributing factor to cancer. We know that it is costly from a health point of view and every time there is a serious problem with smog, visits to doctors in the affected areas greatly multiply, as do the number of prescriptions dispensed and the admissions to hospitals. That cost factor must be borne in mind. There is a saving when we do something about smog.
The last Government introduced the Air Pollution Bill in the Seanad. Unfortunately, the general election intervened and the Bill lapsed. The present Government reintroduced the Bill as it stood as one of their first measures, which I welcomed, and it was passed unanimously in this House last year. Subsequent to that in February of this year, my Fine Gael colleague from my area, councillor Charles McManus, tabled a motion in Dublin City Council asking that all of Ballyfermot, acknowledged to be the most severely affected area in the city and country, should be declared a smoke-controlled area. On the recommendation of the city manager, the city council approved that one eighth of Ballyfermot — the 800 houses in Ballyfermot between Garryowen Road and Kylemore Road and between Ballyfermot Road and Landen Road, be declared a smoke-free zone. Councillor McManus and I jointly challenged the absurdity of this small area being declared a smoke-free zone, but it has to be said that it was the city manager's proposal that it would be such a small area. I do not know whether he had had any discussions with the Minister for the Environment, who might clarify that point. The first smoke-controlled zone area was declared in this absurdly small area by the city council in April. Because there were objections a public inquiry was ordered, as provided for in the legislation and that was completed in June. The report was submitted to the Minister and some days ago he confirmed the order with some variations. That is the background to the events.
Public consultation is very desirable and has taken place in this case, but we cannot afford to allow the process to be so long in the future. Admittedly, this is the first case, and it may take longer than usual, but we have to speed up the process. The Minister in his statement last week said he will consider no further smoke-controlled zone areas from local authorities until this pilot scheme has been tried and tested. I regret that very much and I request the Minister to change his mind on that point and indicate tonight that he is prepared to consider requests from local authorities for smoke controlled zone areas where there are particular problems. The Minister acknowledge in his statement that under the Act he has to give six months' notice, so the order does not take effect until May next year. In reality this means that the order does not take effect until the winter of 1989-90. Therefore, the earliest date at which results will be available from the pilot scheme — I contend the area is so small that any results can be contested — is in summer 1990. If the Minister is to persist that he will consider no further smoke-controlled zone areas, we will have another three to five winters of smog, like we had last night in the city, which is very debilitating even for those like myself who do not have chest problems. I ask the Minister to change his mind on that and to consider reasonably any smoke-controlled zone orders made by local authorities from now on.
Some people have criticised the Minister for allowing the use of coal and briquettes in the order. I am not among those who have criticised the Minister, because it is right that the claims made for the coal and peat briquette burning fires be tested in the pilot scheme. If peat briquettes have such low smoke content, as Bord na Móna claim, they would meet all EC air pollution criteria and it would be wrong to ban them. Briquettes have the added attraction of being Irish made, thus helping to create jobs. It would be silly to ban them if in fact they were not a contributory factor to the problem. However if the results of the pilot scheme show differently, the Minister would have to change his mind, and I am sure he would. The argument that it is Irish does not hold good for coal, but the Minister could have been open to challenge in the courts if he did not allow the coal burning fire. The coal industry have made an effort to meet the problem. If the coal burning fire performs as the coal industry claim, this will also contribute to the elimination of air pollution and meeting the criteria set by the European Commission. Coal does not have the advantage of being manufactured in Ireland, although there are jobs in the coal industry, so it does not have the same attraction for me.
Gas is produced in Ireland and is the cleanest of all fuels. It is good there are Irish fuels that meet the EC criteria. I hope when people make their choices in relation to the fuels they use they will consider giving preference to Irish made products, because unemployment is one of the major problems of the country and Ballyfermot has more than its share of unemployment. I ask the Minister to acknowledge the special problems of Ballyfermot.
In my view the Minister's package is reasonably balanced as between tenants, tenant purchasers and purchasers, but one category has been omitted. The Minister has gone a long way towards creating a reasonable balance between those three categories. However, there is a category who have been very hard done by, namely, the category who since the city council made its order back in March-April — between the time when they thought the order was in and the Minister confirmed the order a week ago — in anticipation of the Minister's confirmation went ahead and entered into contracts particularly to have gas installed. Having taken that initiative to help solve the problem in that area this winter they are now to be penalised by having no grant. This is most unfair. It is penalising initiative.
I know the Minister made a statement in June warning people not to opt but not everybody reads every ministerial statement. I communicated the fact that people should not opt until a decision was made. I appeal to the Minister to understand the problem. People who thought they were doing the right thing are now penalised. I would ask him to go back to the Government to get agreement that the grants would cover those people who opted for appliances which, otherwise, would qualify but who opted before his statement was made and since the City Council made its order. That is my second request to him.
My third request relates to another aspect of pollution in our city — I regret to say it as a former Minister for Transport — and that is the pollution caused by buses in the city. A lot of pollution is caused by buses and trucks. There are many buses going around the city billowing black fumes. When they get to the termini especially at this time of the year when it is cold the drivers — for understandable reasons, perhaps, to keep themselves warm — leave the engines running. I would ask the Minister to approach the board of CIE with a view to having this stopped even if it means providing in the buses independent heating in the cab while they are waiting to move off — sometimes it can be for five or ten minutes.
And service the buses.
My fourth request to the Minister concerns the scheme and the variety of grants he announced which of necessity are complicated. Every house is different. I would ask the Minister to make officials available in the area to answer queries so that people, whether tenants or tenant purchasers, can say what appliances they had and what appliances they want and can be told specifically what grant they are entitled to. There is a lot of confusion in this area. I would be grateful if the Minister could do that quickly.
This is a problem that will continue. I hope we can do more than the Minister has been able to do in his statement. It is a first step. We should be much more committed to taking speedy steps to eliminate this problem than is indicated in the Minister's statement. I urge him to review the situation in that light. I now give way to my colleague, Deputy Shatter.
My colleague, Deputy Mitchell, has outlined the problems as they apply in Ballyfermot and has done so very ably. I do not intend to address the problems of Ballyfermot but I intend to address, in my contribution, the problems of the entire city and county of Dublin. The reality is that we cannot erect a large wall around some portion of the city and say the smog problems are confined to that portion of the city. They stretch now throughout the length and breadth of the city and county of Dublin, as everyone in Dublin is aware. Whereas I welcome the fact that the Minister has made the special control area order for the Ballyfermot area it is my view that what is being done is too little and is too late.
What is now required is a radical departure from the pedestrian approach that we have seen from this Minister to date on this issue. We need a Dublin smog action plan. We need recognition from Government of the extent of the problem not merely in the context of the cost to the medical service but of the human impact of this problem on people living throughout Dublin. There is a need for a series of steps to be taken to tackle this issue. When the Minister announced that the order for Ballyfermot was being made I regret that he very specifically said that he would not be making further orders until various tests which he wants carried out by Eolas have been completed.
In the brief time available to me I am going to ask the Minister to take a series of actions. The first action that should be taken is that on a daily basis RTE should broadcast smog alert warnings when smog is going to reach dangerous levels within the city and county of Dublin. If RTE can make announcements regarding the pollen count in the summer, they should make similar announcements to warn people when evening is coming and when it appears that we are going to have a major smog problem in the city. The elderly, those who have chest problems, those who suffer from the type of illnesses which Deputy Mitchell described, deserve to have some warning signal both on television and radio. The Minister has the capacity to arrange for that to take place.
Secondly, the Minister should launch a major public service information campaign. The problem requires not merely ministerial initiatives but the help and co-operation of everyone living in the city and county of Dublin. We are currently wasting money on a campaign entitled "Let us get the lead out" to exhort people to purchase lead-free petrol from 36 out of the 3,400 garages in the State when what we need is a "Let us get the smoke out" campaign. If the Department of the Environment can spend money on advertising on the air waves to encourage people to use unleaded petrol — which they should be encouraged to do if only the garages were selling it — at this time in the context of the problems in Dublin we should have a "Let us get the smoke out" campaign. The Minister should encourage the people outside the Ballyfermot area to take initiatives themselves to reduce the level of smoke that is polluting the city and county. There is a need for a greater degree of urgency.
Thirdly, the Minister should no longer wait for local authorities, either in Dublin city or in Dublin county, to isolate portions of the city and county to have named special control areas. Under section 39 (4) of the Air Pollution Act, 1987, the Minister can direct a local authority to designate special control areas, special smoke free areas. I call on the Minister to direct Dublin County Council and Dublin Corporation to take the steps necessary to designate the entire city and county of Dublin as special control areas so that the procedures are immediately initiated. If public inquiries need to be held, they can be held this year in the month of December and the necessary orders can be made well before next winter so that we do not find ourselves in a position where the problem is repeated next winter and where the only smoke control zone in Dublin is Ballyfermot. This should apply to the entire city and county. The Corporation are too slow to act in these matters and the Department of the Environment have not shown the required urgency.
I would also urge the Minister, and I think he would have support from all parties in this House, to introduce an amendment to the Air Pollution Act. It is unsatisfactory that the order in respect of Ballyfermot will take six months to take effect. It will not take effect until 31 May 1989, when the problem will be solved by the onset of the summer months. There is no particular reason why the Act could not provide for this type of order to become operative within three months of it being made and I urge the Minister to do that. I also ask him to take a further initiative and that is to discuss with his Cabinet colleagues extending the type of grants now being provided to Ballyfermot, to the city and the county of Dublin to tackle this problem. The cost factors Deputy Mitchell mentioned in the area of health will be a great deal greater than the necessary financial input to provide a scheme of grants to assist people to convert from the current fuels that create the smoke problems obtaining in this city.
The next initiative I would ask the Minister to take — with the assistance of his departmental and local authority officials — is to identify what industries within the city and county of Dublin and contributing to the smog problem we have, to ensure that they are brought within the provisions of the Air Pollution Act and, if necessary, ensure that action is taken in that area.
I am sorry to interrupt the Deputy but the time available to him and his colleague is now exhausted. I must call the Minister to reply.
I might just finish my sentence. I would urge the Minister to take all of these initiatives, as a matter of considerable urgency, to protect the health of all of the people who live in both the city and county of Dublin.
I thank the Deputies for contributing. Rather than read my prepared script perhaps the quickest way to get the information across would be to answer their questions. I share the concern expressed by the two Deputies about this problem which is becoming worse and which must be dealt with now.
As everybody understands, under the legislation, the important thing is that the question of the creation of these smokeless zones is a matter for Dublin Corporation but I do have the power to direct them, if necessary.
The whole question about delays has been gone into in some detail by Deputy Jim Mitchell. I accept what he says to be true except, of course, that there were circumstances in which there were 12 objections to the order being made. That happened on this occasion. Personally I do not think it will happen on any other. There were special circumstances applicable this time. But in other areas, when control orders are being made, we will be able to overcome that obstacle and be able to attend to the business in hand somewhat quicker. Other areas will be considered now. I am satisfied that that is the way it should be done, so I can see the point. I am now inviting Dublin Corporation to proceed. They have completed surveys in respect of some other areas contiguous to that area and other places as well in the city and county. I am happy to press them to do it now.
I am pleased that Deputy Mitchell recognised the problem about the burning of briquettes and the full burning fire. I shall not go into this matter. I axed it in a quasi-official way. I considered all the evidence available to me and there was overwhelming evidence to support what I did. The grant was as balanced and as generous as I could possibly make it in all the circumstances. I recognise the position of those people about whom the Deputy spoke who may have taken the option earlier than was intended. I will examine the matter but I would invite the Deputy to consider the provisions of section 45 of the Air Pollution Act which I am fairly sure preclude me from doing anything to help out the people he mentioned.
The problem is that that acts as a disincentive to everybody else in the city and county from doing anything about their problem until the Minister makes further orders.
Without an order they cannot get the grant assistance but, if we can get the grant assistance in place now, it will be a similar type of grant assistance that will be applicable. But the provisions of section 45 are specific. We agreed them unanimously. However, I would rather get on with the job now than talk about amendments.
It is a problem for many poor people.
I understand what the Deputy is saying. However, he will acknowledge that they were forewarned of the dual situation. The reason they were forewarned was on account of the provisions of section 45. I understand that the Deputy himself, by way of circular, told the people in that area to be careful of what they were doing. Anyway, Deputy Mitchell has made the point. I shall examine it. But I would have to say that, from by casual perusal of the provisions of that section this evening, it would appear that I am precluded from doing anything.
With regard to the point the Deputy made about buses, I should say that I shall contact CIE on behalf of us all in this matter. I think there might be a need for some calibration of the systems which would take care of much of that problem. Certainly emissions from buses contribute to the level of emissions of smoke in the city, not to a great percentage degree, but it should be remembered that every little adds to the total.
I should say that officials will be available in the Ballyfermot area to advise on these matters on Thursday of next week. They will be officials of Dublin Corporation, not mine, who will be there in the Ballyfermot school. I can confirm that to the Deputy later.
That is Thursday of next week?
Sorry, this week.
At the public meeting?
There will be officials available to explain to people who seek advice on the matter on Thursday.
At the public meeting?
In the school.
With regard to the action plan to which Deputy Shatter referred, I should say that there is an action plan which was not reported as widely as I would have liked. It outlined precisely some of the actions I had already taken in the matter. However, I shall list them again now. I was questioned about smoke/smog alert warnings at the press conference. I said then I thought it was a good idea. I shall endeavour to see if that can be arranged so that people would be alerted.
But it is not happening yet.
Casually it is, but not in a formal way.
There is a necessity for it to happen on the airwaves.
I understand what the Deputy is saying, that it should be done in a formal way. I conceded the point, that I thought it was a good idea and should be pursued.
The information campaign was covered in my press release also. I will give the Deputies details of that now. That is also being pursued so that there will be a proper understanding of how people can voluntarily do an awful lot to right the problem tonight if only they would avail of the choices available to them.
It has been contended that the Minister should direct other control areas. As I understand it, that will not be necessary. I would do so if I thought it was. I believe that Dublin Corporation, in the county, have area orders sufficiently advanced by way of the surveys they have undertaken to make the orders shortly, which will be coming to me, so that we can get on with that matter.
In so far as the testing of some of the appliances mentioned is concerned I should say that EOLAS are undertaking some of that testing whose results will certainly be available before the next order is ready.
Deputy Shatter mentioned industries. I should say to him that I had already taken the initiative in so far as those industries concerned. I made regulations a couple of weeks ago which will apply to new industries are from 1 February next with regard to the whole question of smoke emissions from new industries and, progressively from that date forward, will apply to existing and older industries. That initiative has already been taken under the provisions of the Air Pollution Act and is being applied now.
We all know that the smog joined the fog last evening to create an even greater problem. Even in the west of the country last night there was a pea-souper fog, not smog, which continued to prevail right up through the midlands today. We had the fog and the smog here last night which led to a very difficult position; I understand that. An instant solution is not possible. Nonetheless it is overdue. We are now tackling the problem under many of the headings I have mentioned. I should say that the smog affects areas other than Ballyfermot. I have to say that there is a certain amount of responsibility on those who can afford it — and this will form part of my information campaign — to make the personal choice to buy smokeless fuels. Of course they are a little more expensive now. However their greater use would reduce the overall level of smog emissions in this city if only people would make that choice. I appeal to them again to do so in their own interests; it constitutes an investment in their health.
What fuels does the Minister recommend?
Coalite is one and there are several other recognised smokeless fuels now. In fact only today I received representations about other fuels that people want me to say are suitable. Of course, until such time as they are tested, I shall not give them that carte blanche. However, I should say that some residents associations on the south side of the city have been in touch with me within the last week or two informing me that they have met and have agreed voluntarily to have a smokeless area in their districts. I applaud that initiative. It is taking the action themselves. If we could get that message across the city this very evening there could be an enormous reduction in the amount of smog and a huge increase in the usage of smokeless fuels. The surest way to get their price down is to have greater usage.
I had in mind a few other measures that might be taken as well. I announced them and they constitute something practical I can do within my Department. For example, in future new house grants will be confined to houses fitted with smokeless appliances in heavily built-up areas, and possibly other large areas, with a corresponding provision applicable to new public housing. This means there will be no more public housing in this area unless they comply with the installation of certain types of appliances. There will be a general policy directive issued by me under the Planning Acts relating to the use of smokeless heating systems in any new or reconstructed premises; that will include domestic, residential, commercial or anything else in the area about which we are speaking. Dublin Corporation houses are to be converted to smokeless either by the existing remedial works scheme or a special scheme where major refurbishment work is carried out. As the Deputies will know, there is on hand at present a huge scheme of remedial works in various parts of the city. Within the provisions of those schemes I am endeavouring to have both jobs done simultaneously. That is a good way to tackle it in so far as Dublin Corporation's housing stock is concerned. I am also actively pursuing the question of Government buildings so that, if they can be converted to smokeless fuels, that should be done. They constitute enormous complexes, with huge smoke emissions, about which we could do something really big and effective.
I should say I am getting good support from the few distributors concerned with mounting my information campaign and in paying for it. I agree with Deputy Shatter that the lead-free petrol campaign ought to be funded in a similar manner. We are indeed getting great value for money there. I should like the same to apply to my information campaign, so that we could have not just smokeless fuels but lead-free petrol and all of the other initiatives that could achieve our objective in this area. It constitutes a very positive start. By and large I can concede the Deputies' requests. Hopefully, before this time next year, we shall have made a huge dent in the problem in so far as the large local authority housing areas are concerned. In the meantime people in the middle and upper class areas of Dublin can just stop burning bituminous coal and opt for smokeless, when the problem would be resolved within a very short time.
In relation to local authority houses in Dublin city that have no fireplaces at present — I think there are approximately 150 houses in Dublin Corporation city areas — or which have conserva heaters which are virtually extinct, will the Minister's grants be applicable to those or will he allow the provisions of the refurbishment schemes be utilised to have smokeless appliances fitted in them?
These are areas that will be subjects of new control area orders?
I am not aware whether there are control area orders being prepared but there is a large number of houses there without fireplaces.
Well, if remedial works are being done on those I would expect that they would have the new arrangements put in place. But there will be no grants paid except in respect of the areas covered by the control area orders. I expect they will be quite numerous within the next 12 months; so be it; we shall just have to find the money for them.
The Dáil adjourned at 11.05 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 16 November 1988.