It is proposed that the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. today and business shall be interrupted at 12 midnight. It is also proposed that statements shall be made today on the review of the Anglo-Irish Agreement and the following arrangements shall apply: (1) the statement of the main spokesperson nominated by each of the groups as defined in Standing Order 89 (1) shall not exceed 30 minutes, (2) the statement of each other Member called on shall not exceed 15 minutes, and (3) the final statement shall conclude not later than 12 midnight. Private Members' Business shall be No. 16, with Question Time as usual at 2.30 p.m.
Order of Business.
A Cheann Comhairle——
The Deputy might first allow me to ask whether the proposal for the late sitting today is agreed? Agreed. Are the proposals for dealing with the statements agreed?
No. I regret that I have to rise here once again to object to a proposal for dealing with business. Under this arrangement it is proposed that only the main spokespersons of the groups as defined in Standing Order 89 (1) shall have 30 minutes in which to make their statements. Again, I would argue that this is a deliberate attempt to downgrade the role of The Workers Party in this House, and on that basis I am objecting to the proposal and am going to call a vote on it. I have pointed out on previous occasions that if this practice were to be continued I would challenge it on every occasion in the Dáil.
Therefore it would seem that the Deputy is objecting to part 1 of the proposal.
Yes.
I am therefore putting the following question: "That the statement of the main spokesperson nominated by each of the groups as defined in Standing Order 89 (1) shall not exceed 30 minutes." Will the Members who claim a division please rise?
Deputies De Rossa, Gregory, Kemmy, McCartan, Mac Giolla and Sherlock rose.
Question put and declared carried.
In accordance with Standing Orders the names of the members dissenting will be recorded in the Journal of the Proceedings of the Dáil.
I take it that the proposals in respect of dealing with the debate on the Anglo-Irish Agreement are agreed. Agreed.
On the Order of Business, I understand that the Taoiseach will make a statement in the House this afternoon about the appointment of a Commissioner. I raised this matter yesterday and I asked that it be clarified that there would be an opportunity for the Leaders of the other parties in the House to comment on that appointment. The Tánaiste yesterday suggested that the matter should be discussed between the Whips. It has been discussed between the Government Whip and my Whip — I do not know about the other parties — and the Government Whip has proved to be recalcitrant. I should like it confirmed in the House now that there will be an opportunity for other Members of the House to reply to the Taoiseach's statement.
In accordance with numerous precedents in the past, what is involved here is that the Taoiseach will come into the House as a matter of courtesy to convey the Government's decision in a short announcement. There is a short announcement procedure by which the Taoiseach of the day makes an announcement without debate. That procedure is well established. It is nothing new nor is it being introduced now for the first time.
The Tánaiste is not correct on that. If he looks at the Official Report for 10 October 1984 — an occasion when on the resumption of the Dáil after the summer recess the Commissioner at that stage due to take office in 1985 was notified at the beginning of the session — he will find that a reply was made by the then Leader of the Opposition, Deputy Haughey, and I intend to invoke that precedent today.
I want to clarify the matter. That was a three page statement to which Deputy Dukes referred and there is specific procedure governing a statement with further statements from other Leaders. This is not a statement; this is a three sentence announcement. It is a different matter altogether.
(Interruptions.)
This matter may not be debated now.
(Interruptions.)
I know that it is extremely difficult for the Tánaiste to resist the temptation to be utterly disingenuous but if he looks at the Official Report he will see that there was at least a column of comment by the then Taoiseach, Deputy Garret FitzGerald, and at least a column by Deputy Haughey. I can tell the Tánaiste and you Sir, but in particular the Tánaiste, that I will not be making a three sentence comment. I will comment at considerably greater length than that.
May I intervene here lest there be any——
(Interruptions.)
——ambiguity about matters of this kind. I want to advise the House about the distinction which arises in Standing Orders between an announcement and a statement. If it is an announcement, that would be for the information of the House only and no debate or statement by other Members can arise. If it is a statement such as we are dealing with on the Order of Business this morning that is a different matter.
I should like it confirmed that what will happen in the House this afternoon is that the Taoiseach will make a statement.
We shall have to wait and see.
I almost hesitate to pursue this because if we go far enough we might not hear any statement or announcement this afternoon. I want to be clear that what we will have in the House this afternoon will be statements. I intend to make a statement in reply to the Taoiseach's statement.
The Chair will decide the matter.
It is the Government who order business.
I have made the matter clear to the House that in respect of an announcement there is no motion before the House and there can be no debate or comment.
There is nothing on today's Order Paper which states what will happen this afternoon. I want to clear up what will happen and I want it established on the Order of Business that we are to have statements.
The Deputy is dealing with a hypothetical question. I am calling Deputy McCartan.
We need to know. Are we to have statements this afternoon? It is the business of the Government to order the business of this House. I want to know from the Government that a statement is to be made this afternoon so that the House can decide to have statements.
I have stated clearly that there will be an announcement under the procedure referred to by the Ceann Comhairle. We are in the Ceann Comhairle's hands in regard to procedure that is laid down under an order of this House in respect of such an announcement to be made by the Taoiseach for the information of the Dáil following a Government decision.
(Interruptions.)
You want to gag the Opposition parties.
We cannot debate this matter now.
We have just had a statement from the Tánaiste that the Government's proposal on the Order of Business is that there should be an announcement this afternoon. In keeping with the normal procedure of this House, I am telling you that I do not agree with that proposal.
I have indicated to the House what Standing Orders lay down in respect of an announcement. The Chair will adhere to that.
I know what Standing Orders lay down.
This is going too far. I have allowed Deputy Dukes to ventilate his views. I am calling Deputy McCartan.
The Tánaiste is now saying that in the Order of Business there will be an announcement by the Taoiseach. In so far as that is part of the Order of Business which we have to adopt at the beginning of public business today, I object. If the Tánaiste is proposing that there be an announcement I want you to put a question asking if it is agreed that an announcement be made.
That is part of the business of the proceedings of the House this morning. My understanding is that announcements of this kind are normally made by the Taoiseach of the day without the permission or prior approval of the House.
That is quite true. If the Taoiseach says he will make an announcement there is no other debate, but I disagree with it as part of the Order of Business. I want you to put the question that an announcement be made, or else the Tánaiste may change his mind and decide that it will be a statement.
It is not on the Order of Business before me as announced by the Tánaiste.
If it is not on the Order of Business, then I gather it cannot happen.
I called Deputy McCartan earlier.
You have not resolved the issue. You are side stepping it. I am making a simple request.
I have made the position quite clear in respect of statements and announcements and motions before the House. The Chair will adhere to that procedure.
All I am asking is that we should know if there is to be a statement or an announcement. If it is an announcement then, as a part of the Order of Business, that is not acceptable.
I do not wish to seem to be discourteous to the Deputy but I have given him a lot of leeway in this matter. Deputy McCartan, please.
Have the Government made any decision with regard to the future of the Rape Crisis Centre? The matter was raised twice yesterday. If there is not to be a response, I seek permission to raise the matter on the Adjournment.
I will communicate with the Deputy.