Vol. 384 No. 9
asked the Minister for the Environment the total number of local authority housing units for (a) senior citizens, (b) single parents, and (c) families of two or more expected to be completed in (1) 1988 and (2) 1989; whether this is adequate; the numbers in each category awaiting housing; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
97.
asked the Minister for the Environment the number of local authority houses completed by Offaly County Council in each year from 1985 to 1987 inclusive; and those estimates for completion prior to the end of 1989.
98.
asked the Minister for the Environment the number of local authority houses which were completed in each of the years 1980 to 1987 inclusive; the number which have been completed this year to date; and the number it is anticipated will be completed in 1989.
99.
asked the Minister for the Environment the number of new houses completed by Cork County Council for each year from 1980 to 1987 inclusive; and the number of new houses started in 1988.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 8, 97, 98, and 99 together.
Details of completion are not available to my Department in the format requested by Deputy Sherlock. In 1988 it is expected that completions overall will be about 1,500. It is not possible at this stage to give precise figures for houses to be completed in 1989; however, it is anticipated that completions nationally will be in the region of 1,000.
I expect local authority housing completions together with dwellings becoming available from the existing stock for reletting to provide a reasonably adequate level of housing provision in 1989 given the present reduced level of needs. At 31 December 1987, the latest date for which details are available, there were approved applications for local authority housing from 3,951 single parents, 4,337 elderly and 13,706 families of two or more persons. The numbers of local authority houses completed each year from 1980 to 1987 by individual housing authorities were given in reply to Question No. 218 of 19 April 1988; the number of dwellings commenced by each housing authority each year, 1982 to 1988 were given in reply to Questions Nos. 13, 20 and 120 of 26 October 1988. Regarding completion this year, housing authorities provide details of activity on their housing construction programme to my Department on a quarterly basis. In the nine months to 30 September 1988 1,095 houses were completed.
Will the Minister agree that devolved housing is no longer available to local authorities? I do not have to explain what that means but, in view of the fact that there has been a reduction in the number of local authority houses constructed because of the £5,000 grant made available by the Department to people who wish to vacate local authority houses——
Please, Deputy Sherlock.
——the housing stock coming back to local authorities is very limited. Will the Minister agree that because the local authority SDA loan is practically unavailable, there will be a greater need for local authority housing? Does he accept that the provision of housing is a great social need and that lack of housing can contribute to the break up of marriage in many instances?
Deputy Sherlock is going on too long.
I agree that housing is an important matter and that the number of houses becoming available for reletting is slowing down because of the end of the £5,000 scheme. Local authorities are expected to make about 3,000 relettings from existing dwellings which become vacant this year. That is a rough estimate but it seems to be adequate to deal with our requirements at present. However, things are changing and the matter must be very carefuly watched. I do not agree with the Deputy's remarks in relation to the SDA. I agree that there is not as big a take-up of these loans despite the fact that quite a substantial sum of money was — and is — available. That has been replaced by very active participation in mortgage funding by the other institutions. I understand, from notice given to me, that there is going to be quite an amount of increased activity by other institutions in that regard again next year.
Would the Minister agree that on the basis of his figures — there were in the region of 20,000 housing applicants at the beginning of this year — no more than 5,000 local authority houses will be made available? Would he agree that, as a result, in 1989 there will be in the region of 15,000 housing applicants looking for a local authority house while only 1,000 houses will be built. This Government have laid the foundations for a housing crisis as we approach 1989.
I do not accept that. I accept that the whole question of housing programmes has to be monitored continually because it can change over the years. There has not been as big a demand for local authority housing in the last few years but that may change and if it does there certainly will be an obligation on the Government to pay attention to it.
I wish to ask the Minister if his figure of 20,000 applicants includes people who are on transfer lists within local authorities?
I mentioned the number of single parents, elderly people and families of two and more.
The Minister may not have the information that I request. The gross number of people on the housing list is approximately 22,000. Does that include people who are already housed by local authorities but who are on the transfer list?
It includes people who might be already in local authority housing but who wish to change to different locations.
There are 22,000 families in Dublin alone looking for transfers.
Please, let the interruptions cease. Let us hear the Minister.
I gave the figures that are available to me, as of 31 December 1987 — the last set of figures available to me — of approved applications for local authority housing.
For first-time applicants?
Yes, for the various categories that are involved.
May be I can assist the Minister. Perhaps if he does not have the information he could clarify it at a later date. Would the Minister not agree that the figures he is quoting relate specifically and exclusively to first-time applicants for accommodation from local authorities and exclude the many thousands of people who are living in inadequate accommodation and who seek a transfer on grounds of overcrowding and otherwise and that the scale of housing demand is far greater than he indicated to the House?
I presume the figures are as the Deputy says. I have one figure which is worth quoting. At the end of 1982 the number of applicants on the waiting list was 29,944 and at the end of 1987, the last year for which figures are available, it was 18,561.
Plus transfers.
Is it true that in some local authority areas there is a serious shortage of local authority housing whereas in other areas that may not be the case? Would he accept that the Galway Corporation area is one in which there is an urgent need for housing? Can he explain why his office have not authorised the construction of any new local authority houses in that area over the past three years?
I accept that some local authorities have a bigger problem than others. As the Deputy quite rightly said, some authorities do not seem to have a problem at all. With the resources available to us we try to adjust the start-ups in those authority areas. That causes some problems for me on occasion. People ask why we are not allocating the money evenly. The reason is that some areas are not as critical as others.
There has been no construction in Galway for three years. Why is that?
Deputy Farrelly.
Following on the Minister's reply in which he said that in 1982 there were——
Is the Deputy talking about the county borough of Galway?
Yes.
The Deputy is quite right in so far as 1986 and 1987 are concerned, but for 1988 the figure is 20.
There were no start-ups——
Question Time is becoming very unwieldy. I had called Deputy Farrelly, and he was on his feet.
I wish to get the facts right from the Minister. I am not going to delay the House.
It is the parliamentary smog that is causing the confusion.
The scheme of 20 houses in the city has not started yet. They are for elderly people.
This can be raised at another time.
No new houses are being built for families and children.
Deputy Farrelly has been called.
The Minister said that in 1982 there were 29,000 applicants — that followed nearly a four year period of his own Administration — and in 1987 there were 18,000 applicants. Is he now telling the House that if his Government are in office for four years there will be 30,000 applicants on the list? Is the Minister also telling us there is no need for extra housing, for instance, in my own constituency where there have been only eight housing starts in 1988? He says there is no housing problem but that is not what I am hearing from my constituents.
If there is no housing problem there is no need to build houses.
The Minister is creating a housing problem.
If there is a housing problem it is being dealt with, but the numbers indicate that a problem does not exist. I have conceded the point that the question of housing needs to be monitored on a continual basis. It has been agreed here many times, not just by this Government but also by the last Government, that the trend is that we do not have the same demand for local authority housing. If and when that trend changes and there is a demand which requires to be met, then of course the matter will have to be looked at in a different way.
Rather than make an argument specific to the north side of Dublin city, an area which needs urgent attention in terms of the Minister's review, I will ask a question on a more general basis. In view of what has been said here today and in view of the Minister's concession that the matter needs ongoing consideration, is he disposed to reconsider the measly figure of 1,000 houses for the coming year and will he concede that, at least in some areas, there is need for a greater allocation for housing?
I put it to the Deputy that the position he put to me continually last year was that I should concentrate all my efforts on the remedial works necessary——
I never said that.
The Deputy put it to me that I should concentrate——
This should not lead to argument.
The Minister cannot quote me as saying that at any time. I constantly made the case that there is a housing crisis looming in the city, whatever about the rest of the country.
The Deputy constantly makes the case——
If the Deputy wishes to put a supplementary question he knows the procedure. He should rise in his place and seek my permission.
The Deputy constantly made the case to me that I should continue to improve my efforts, if that sounds better to him, in so far as remedial works are concerned. I have done that and I think it has been generally welcomed by the Deputy and by others. I certainly have transferred some of the funding available to me to the remedial works operation and I think we are getting a good result. Do not ask me to cut that off at the neck. I want to see it completed so that we can overcome mistakes that were made by previous administrations, whichever ones I will not say.
Arising out of the Minister's somewhat complacent replies to four questions in relation to the apparent absence of any housing crisis, can I ask him to put on the record of the House that he is not concerned about the prospect of a housing crisis in Dublin city, having regard to the fact that for the first time since 1930 Dublin Corporation have no plans to build houses anywhere, either in the city or in the county?
I dislike the inference of complacency on the part of the Minister. That is unkind of the Deputy, to say the least——
It is the only deduction that can be taken from the replies.
Please, Deputy Quinn, you have asked a question. Let the Minister reply.
I take it the Deputy does not mean it in the way it sounded.
I do. I mean every word of it.
I can assure the Deputy that housing matters receive quite an amount of my time. I make the best use possible of the funds that are available to me to deal with the biggest problems we have. Should it transpire that there is a need to alter that arrangement for a different usage of the available funding, then I can tell Deputy McCartan that, of course, I would be happy to consider doing so.
A final supplementary——
I am calling Deputy Stagg.
Would the Minister agree that the position is——
The Minister does not even have the full figures.
Would the Minister agree that the allocation made to local authorities is totally inadequate for the needs of their housing programmes? Is he aware that in the town of Newbridge, County Kildare, where 39 houses were built there were over 400 applicants? Furthermore, is he aware that the only houses coming on stream in the county over the next two years will be those becoming vacant through the death or emigration of their tenants; that there are over 1,500 families on the housing list in County Kildare, that there is a housing crisis there and yet no money is being provided?
I must dissuade the Deputy from making a speech.
The Deputy got the figures he wanted on the record. I do not have the figures in respect of applicants for every single housing scheme or local authority before me and the Deputy knows that.
That is very obvious.
I would have a fairly bulky file had I all those details.
The Minister is displaying the incompetence of his Department in not knowing what is happening on the ground.
The Deputy can charge me with whatever he likes but he should please not charge the Department with anything except the most efficient administration that has ever existed in that Department which cannot be said of previous administrations.
