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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 1 Dec 1988

Vol. 385 No. 1

Local Government (Planning and Development) (No. 2) Bill, 1988: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Before the break I illustrated by reference to two planning scandals in County Wicklow, the abuse by the Electricity Supply Board in the case of the Arklow-Carrickmines power line of the board's very considerable powers and devastation of oak woods at Coolattin by a private company, how the mere threat of compensation could be used to haunt objectors to bad and spurious development and how the same threat could render the planning authorities in a county impotent. I also mentioned how the compensation arrangements had given rise to the arrival on the scene of a whole new genre of undesirable individuals, the speck non-developer and the compensation broker.

Before the debate adjourned I was saying that codification of compensation provisions was particularly welcome, indeed, it was an improvement which was long overdue. Not wishing to dwell on areas already covered in earlier contributions I intend to limit my comments to aspects of the Bill which either have not been fully covered or have not been adequately covered or aspects which have been subject to a degree of misrepresentation.

One aspect of the Bill which has been largely overlooked is the provision which will allow a planning authority to prioritise a development. Under section 13 of the Bill and in conjunction with paragraph 3 of the Third Schedule a developer may be refused permission to develop if the development is regarded as premature. Prematurity will be judged by reference to any order of priority for development indicated in the development plan. This is a particularly worth-while provision. It will enable planning authorities to give direction to development. If an area is being ignored for whatever reason, while other areas have become the focus of intensive and excessive development, it will allow the planning authority to focus attention on the otherwise underdeveloped or ignored area.

This provision can be dependent by a local authority which wishes to direct development without that local authority fearing for compensation. The potential benefit of this provision in some of our towns and cities is very considerable. More considerable still is the potential of the provision in filling gaps by encouraging infill developments. In every small town and village of Ireland there are areas which for one reason or another have fallen out of fashion. By using these provisions, a planning authority could create an area of priority and could direct meaningful and homogeneous development within its planning area.

It strikes me that much of the criticism of section 13 in conjunction with paragraph 9 of the Third Schedule, though probably well intentioned, has been misdirected. The cut-off date of 20 October seems, on balance, to be a wise one. This has been the focus of much comment. By specifying the date of the Bill's publication as opposed to some future date it meant that the Bill has been finally brought in. The Minister has introduced a degree of certainty and he has eliminated the potential and the possibility of speculation and, indeed, unwarranted speculative development. A point was made in a contribution earlier regarding the Shamrock Rover's ground. That particular ground is currently zoned for amenity. It was zoned for amenity on 20 October 1988. If Dublin Corporation were to oppose giving a potential developer permission because the application would contravene the development plan — or an objective of the development plan — at the time of the lands acquisition, the Bill when enacted would protect the corporation from a compensation claim. That seems to be a very worth-while provision.

While I have been attentive to the arguments on the issue of the cut-off date I feel that, on balance, such a clear date is desirable in that it creates a degree of certainty for everybody. Nobody acquiring land at this moment can be under any illusions as to their rights of compensation at a future date. That is an entirely worth-while provision.

The inheritance issue which arises here has also been the subject of a degree of misrepresentation. By and large the inheritors of land are not the type of speculators that we wish to curb. Speculative development or unwarranted speculative development and inheritance are two separate things. There is no doubt that inheritors of land can be encouraged to speculate. The Minister could beef up the Bill's provisions on this particular point in order to take account of some of the more valid submissions that have been made during the debate, but by and large, the provisions on inheritance are good.

The question of companies also arises here. An issue has been made out of the fact that the shareholders of a company may change after the due date and this would allow individuals who have no interest in land as of 20 October to acquire an interest which existed at the cut-off date and to gain from that interest. The point which is either missed or ignored is that it is the company who own the land and that any profit from any development would fall to the company. The company are a separate legal entity from the shareholders and it is very difficult to see how there can be any resolution on this point without making some major change in company law. Some of the arguments which have been made are valid but addressing those arguments would be well nigh impossible.

That is the challenge facing us.

It would be interesting to see how we rise to it. Under paragraph 6 of the Third Schedule air, water and waste pollution are specifically mentioned as being reasons for the refusal of permission which would not give rise to compensation. As I mentioned earlier, there is one other form of pollution which should be added to this list and that is noise pollution. I submit that the Minister should add noise pollution to the list on Committee Stage and I think there would be agreement on all sides of the House for this.

There will.

The provisions in section 14 of the Bill have largely gone unmentioned. There are important provisions in that they deal with the so-called area of undertaking, which lie at the core of the Grange Developments case. The provisions being proposed here are much more precise than those contained in the present law. Particularly welcome is the clarification on the rights of third party objectors where undertakings exist. If the critics read this particular section carefully they will, as I do, welcome it. These are particularly wise changes.

I would like to refer to section 21 which deals with the issue of woodlands and tree preservation in depth. The provisions contained in this section are very important. Earlier I referred to the destruction of Coolattin Woods and the proposed rape of Tomnafinnoge forest which is Ireland's one remaining oak forest. Anyone who has travelled on the road towards Shillelagh and noticed that beautiful panoramic view could not be but appalled at the proposals which are being made by a private company to rip that absolutely irreplaceable part of this nation's heritage apart. I was very pleased, and I referred to this earlier, that the Taoiseach's intervention early last year, an intervention which was approved on all sides of the House helped stem this destruction.

Section 21 considerably extends the provisions of section 45 of the 1963 Act and provides far greater protection to planning authorities in the context of tree preservation orders and the payment of compensation. The section contains two highly important provisions. The first is that the planning authority may from now on, without any fear of compensation, attach conditions to the felling consent requiring the preservation of 20 per cent of trees in woodlands. There is one point I would like to make here and that is that the law appears to be defective, as we learned to our cost in respect of Coolattin Woods, in the definition of what is a tree. The developer who destroyed Coolattin Woods could claim that he had left a significant proportion of trees standing. If we were to take it that a tree can be a seedling of one and a half inches or the odd sceach bush or a bit of holly here and there it is probably true that up to 80 per cent of the trees in that woodland were preserved but they were not trees in the normal sense of the word. They were not majestic oaks which is what the planning authority there intended.

It would be wise to examine this issue and come up with some clear definition as to what is a tree. When does a sapling become a tree? We learned to our cost what can happen when clever people attend the law with evil intent. We should learn from our mistakes because the woodlands at Coolattin can never be replaced. We have only one oak forest remaining at Tomnafinnoge. That has rejuvenated itself. We really should take care on this issue. The roof of King Henry's chapel at Windsor is held up with oak from Coolattin Woods and, probably, Tomnafinnoge Forest. The roof of the Stadthaus in Amsterdam is made from oak from that same area. It is arguable that the masts of some of the great ships in history were made from oak from that area. It would be a tragedy if a company could wilfully destroy without any thought of anything other than profit that part of this nation's heritage. It is incumbent on us to protect it.

The second main provision in section 21 is that in certain circumstances felling consents may require, without compensation, the felling of trees in woodlands phased over a period of up to 20 years. I would like to see this provision strengthened and a very clearcut policy being pursued. The present owners of Coolattin Woods would like to fell trees based on strips across the landscape. That would destroy the canopy of the forest. I accept that there has to be some harvesting but we need to incorporate in our law very strict regulations which would allow a local authority to ensure that developers are careful and mindful of their responsibilities not just to this generation but to generations to come. The provisions in section 21 are new and should allow the planning authorities to defend us all against the loss of woodlands.

In conclusion let me say, and I have said this previously in the House that any Bill introduced in the House can be improved and as I said during the course of another debate no one has a monopoly on wisdom although occasionally that attitude enters into discussions. I was very pleased that the Minister indicated he would listen attentively to what would be said and if there is any one thing which unites us on this issue it is our wish to finally address the vexed question of compensation and our wish to put our planning authorities in a position where they can plan reasonable development and protect that which we all cherish, without any fear of compensation. This Bill is a good one, as I have said on several occasions. I feel it can be improved and I have indicated one or two areas where it can and should be improved. I am both convinced and confident that the Minister will be mindful of all the suggestions which have been made.

Before resuming my seat I would like to point out that earlier on some comments were picked up by the microphone which I understand were hurtful to Deputy Begley. It was not my intention to cast any hurtful reflection on him.

In April of this year the Progressive Democrats introduced their own Planning and Development Bill in this House. That Bill put forward a series of sincere and serious proposals aimed at eradicating the defects and repairing the deficiencies which had surfaced under the 1963 Planning and Development Act. That Bill won the support of all the Opposition parties and Deputies in this House but it was voted down by the Government. The reason given for this was that the Minister would bring forward a more comprehensive Bill and that that Bill would be before the House before long. On that occasion the Minister said that, acutely aware of the urgency of the issue, they had spent seven months in waiting and that in the meantime the mountain had gone into labour and brought forth a mouse.

By any standards the Bill before this House on this the first day of December 1988 is nothing more than a pale and timid version of what was proposed in the Progressive Democrats' Bill last April. However, that being said I do not intend to describe this Bill as a Mickey Mouse Bill, even though others have said that about it, because I have far too much regard for Mickey Mouse who takes his job seriously, but I do say that this Bill is not a serious document. That is becoming patently obvious from the comments made by Members on every side of the House here today, and I have been sitting here since this morning.

This Bill is not a serious response to all or any of the issues raised by the Progressive Democrats, raised repeatedly during the course of the debate on that voted down Bill and raised here again this morning and even a moment ago by Deputy Roche. It is not a serious response to all those issues. For example, there is no evidence of a serious attempt to deal definitively with the issue of compensation. That was the key issue in our Bill. It is an issue which has hung like an albatross round the neck of an otherwise highly enlightened Act, the 1963 Act, which by any standards and in terms of the time in which it was enacted can only be described as a radical and most enlightened piece of legislation. The issue of compensation has been the central issue which has bedevilled the application of that Act during the past 25 years and it is incumbent on all of us to come to terms finally and fully with that issue. The most fundamental weakness in this Bill is that it fails to do that. Indeed in this respect the most charitable thing which can be said is that the Minister has "scotched the snake, not killed it." I am quoting on this occasion from Shakespeare's Macbeth.

Additionally the crucial problem of unfinished estates has been ignored. This was a major element in the Progressive Democrats' Bill. During the course of the debate on that Bill, and again during the debate in this House this morning, speaker after speaker stood up and described in detail the plight and predicament of new home purchasers who have suffered as a result of a small bunch of unprincipled builders who take their money and move out of estates leaving urgent outstanding works undone and leaving helpless mortgage holders with their life long investments devalued. We in the Progressive Democrats hammered home the need to put in place legislation that would give better protection to future home buyers. What we argued for was a consumers' charter but our argument fell on deaf ears. I must ask the Minister why he was afraid to address this issue. Surely it must be acknowledged that a carefully designed provision incorporated into the law aimed to eliminate the scourge of unfinished estates would protect the honest builder as well as protect the rights of home purchasers. The only people who would suffer as a result would be the small handful of rogue builders who are as much a scourge to the good reputation of the building industry as to the house purchaser.

Thirdly, this Bill fails to tackle the matter of planning exemption for Government Departments. The Progressive Democrats recently issued a Bill, the purpose of which is to apply permission and planning law to the State in any development where the State proposes to carry out that development. Under our Bill the State would be obliged to seek planning permission from the local authority to comply with the local development plan and to be amenable to the objections by the local community in exactly the same way as any other private individual or corporation would be.

The 1963 Local Government (Planning and Development) Act provided that the State should be immune from planning controls. In this respect our law then became similar to British law. The reason British law made that provision is that in English law at that time the sovereignty of the Crown and its immunity from local control and local laws was considered to be a cornerstone of the British Constitution. But we live in a democratic Republic with a written Constitution and the State's rights in Ireland have been circumscribed by the Constitution and are regulated by law. The State cannot arrogate to itself total sovereignty and override community rights, just in the same way as it cannot override individual rights. The old English Constitution maxim which says "The King can do no wrong" should have no place in Irish law or in Irish planning law.

We believe that this Bill offers this House an opportunity to change that state of affairs. We believe it is high time the Dáil said to the Government and to the various Departments of State: "You are just as much subject to the planning laws as any private individual or company". Planning law is very much a matter of protecting community rights. There is no logical or moral force in a law which protects community rights from individuals but allows the executive power in the State or the bureaucracy of the State to be totally exempt. It matters not to a community who builds a building which destroys the environment or who pollutes their rivers or their foreshores. A strong case was made today by the Members of the Government side of the House against the ESB for the many works they carried out in contravention of what would be deemed good planning. Surely this is the time and place to put that right. The principle of planning control is to protect the built environment; the identity of the developer is irrelevant — the nature of the development ought to be the only issue.

In this respect we deplore the failure of this Bill to confront the issue and to remedy it in a satisfactory way. We believe that there would be nothing but benefit for the community at large if the State was obliged to make a planning application for any development it wishes to carry out; to make that application to the local development authority; to comply with the local development plan and to meet, accommodate and, where necessary, overcome the legitimate objections of others on the same basis as any other person or company. In short the principle underlining State immunity from planning control is wrong. Its practice is destructive and the proper occasion on which to remedy that wrong is here and now in this Bill.

To give an example of what I am saying I can refer to my local authority area in the city of Cork where in recent years the local corporation, conscious of the need for urban renewal, in a street called Grand Parade put together a package which breathed new life into that street. In conjunction with the Cork 800 celebrations they developed from a derlict site a most delightful little park on the side of the street. This park was beautifully designed, well developed and was put there with a great deal more creativity than just cash. All of this work was carried out under the unique inspiration of a most enlightened city manager who is no longer with Cork Corporation, Mr. Joe McHugh, and his staff. This work was carried out to the great pride and satisfaction of the people of Cork. In conjunction with the provision of this park the whole Grand Parade got a new appearance and we in Cork were beginning to say that some former grandeur had at last been restored to a Grand Parade that had become very tatty and run down over the years.

Just when we were all beginning to be very pleased with ourselves, central Government decided to locate Government offices in Cork. In any circumstance Cork city would have been delighted with such development which was long overdue and warmly welcomed. The only quarrel we had with central Government was that the office block was built exactly across a channel of the river from the Grand Parade. Into this lovely, newly created, renewed atmosphere was put this great ugly office block, out of scale, out of tune, out of texture and totally out of character and out of harmony with what had been carried out very painstakingly and very tastefully by the local authorities. Here there is this conflict. The reason for that happening in that place and in that way was that the Department were not compelled to apply to the local planning department for planning permission. Assuredly, had that been done that office block would have been located elsewhere. That has happened in my own city. It has happened only once but that is too often. In terms of its impact, it is altogether out of scale in every respect. That should not and must not be allowed to recur, in Cork city or any other city.

The time has come for us to come to terms with what has been done by State bodies like the ESB. We are all aware of the manner in which they can run telephone lines through our most beautiful landscape, thereby scarring the face of that landscape. It is time to put an end to that. It is also time to face up to the issue that in very many instances local authorities can be the worst polluters, of rivers, of foreshores. That is something which has been tolerated over a number of years. Within the provisions of this Bill it is time to put in place legislation that will not allow that to continue any longer and insist on its enforcement. All we have, facing into the end of this century and looking to the next, is a country which is unique and the envy of a number of European countries. By universal standards, we have clean air, relatively clean water and a relatively unspoilt landscape. Let us, for God's sake, hold on to that and let us legislators and those who are entrusted to become legislators put in place a package of measures that will protect that gift. It is the least that we can offer to the next generation. The duty is ours; the opportunity is ours. Let us do it now. Now is the time for us to bring the State, State bodies and semi-State bodies within the ambit of the planning laws, within the ambit of local authority development plans and local plans. If we do that we will have done a great favour to the physical fabric of our country for the next generation.

That brings me to the issue of compensation. On reading the memorandum to this Bill, one would have believed that the Minister had met all the demands made, and coped finally and fully with the issue of compensation. Unfortunately, in the Bill there is a contradiction, a glaring paradox — a classic example that one should not judge the book by the cover. In relation to this Bill one should not judge the text by the Memorandum. The issue of compensation is a critical one which must be put right now if we are serious about giving to the next 25 years what the framers of the 1963 Act gave to the last 25 years. In terms of their time, they did their best. We, with hindsight, have an obligation to put in place all-embracing legislation which will deal fully, finally and definitely with the issue of compensation.

When the Progressive Democrats introduced a Bill last April into Dáil Éireann to deal with a planning compensation scandal, among other issues, we provided that one of the reasons for which compensation would be excluded in the case of a refusal of planning permission would be where the proposed development would materially contravene a development objective of the county, or borough development plan. That has been echoed in the memorandum to this Bill. However, at the time the Progressive Democrats issued their own explanatory memorandum which set out their arguments in detail. We believe these arguments to be sound and a fair resumé of the law for the time being, to the effect that the Constitution does not require compensation in the case of refusal of planning permission where the development of the subject matter of the application is, in fact, a breach of the development plan. It is our view that the Constitution recognises explicitly the right of the State and the community at large to regulate private property rights in the interests of the common good.

In the case of real property including land and buildings, the permissible regulation of property rights takes the form of a set of property and planning laws which apply for the time being. The State, under the Constitution, is obliged to protect property rights against unjust attack. It is not obliged to compensate every person whose property rights are affected by legitimate legislation introduced for furthering the common good. The nature of the attack in respect of which the State owes an obligation to a property owner is that it must be unjust in law. The State is not obliged to provide any system of protection or compensation in the case of legitimate curtailment of property rights. How can it be argued that the implementation of a development plan which is carefully arrived at under the complex procedures of the Planning Acts amount to an unjust attack on property rights? Indeed, it has long been accepted that property has its duties as well as it rights.

In a complex modern society the fact that one owns, say, agricultural land does not carry with it an unqualified right to build a city, a town, a factory or a chemical plant on that land. The environment is the property of all citizens. Individual rights to exploit or develop small holdings of land can come into conflict with the general community right to have an orderly, pleasant and humane environment in which to live. The resolution of that conflict is a matter for law and a law which is designed bona fide to resolve that conflict in the interests of the common good and with due regard for the property rights of the individual is a fair law and cannot amount to an unjust attack on property. For these reasons, the Progressive Democrats propose to amend the law of planning compensation so as to exclude compensation where the application was for a development which would materially contravene the development plan.

At the time when we introduced this Bill, the Minister indicated that he accepted the principle of our arguments. He did not raise any constitutional argument against the principal features of our Bill which were to make the development plan work and give it legal superiority over development rights of the individual. Now, in the Third Schedule of this Bill which the Minister has introduced, it is provided at paragraph (9) that compensation will not be payable where the refusal of permission concerns a development which would amount to a contravention of a development plan. However, hidden away in the third paragraph in the Third Schedule in this Bill is a time bomb which completely invalidates the merits of the Bill, undoes its purpose and contradicts what is said in the memorandum. It provides that the exclusion of compensation for the refusal of planning permission will apply only to a development which contravenes a development plan and only where the land has changed hands subsequent to 20 October 1988. The Bill therefore specifically preserves for the present owners the right to claim compensation. There are a great many present owners out there in the wings waiting to claim compensation. They had good reason to be worried during the past few months when this Bill was in the course of preparation but they will now have relaxed, knowing full well that they have nothing to fear. The Bill specifically preserves for present owners the right to claim compensation. More extraordinarily, it preserves the right to claim compensation for the heirs of all present owners or persons who are given lands by present owners under family settlements. That is the nub of our disagreement with the Bill. As Hamlet would have put it, there is the rub. This is the fatal flaw in the Bill.

Even worse than that, the effect of Article 9 of the Third Schedule is effectively to provide that where land is now held by a company as long as it remains the property of that company the right to compensation will continue in perpetuity. That is because the company will be the applicant and will have acquired its interest in the land prior to 20 October 1988. The shares in the company, which really show who are beneficial owners of the company as opposed to the artificial corporate ownership of the land by the company, can change hands at any time after 20 October 1988 perhaps for greatly inflated values because of the entitlement to claim compensation. But that will not amount to an acquisition by the company of the land after 20 October 1988. It will merely amount to a change in the ownership of the shares of the company. That will not affect the right to compensation. That is the second major weakness in this part of the Bill.

The effect of Article 9 of the Third Schedule is that while it appears to concede what was asked for by the Progressive Democrats and others, that is the superiority of the county or city development plan over the right to claim compensation for planning permission refusals, the particular provision is comouflaging a deliberate retreat by this Government. The effect of the Third Schedule, and in particular of Article 9, is to preserve the right of existing property owners, their sons, heirs and shareholders and the future shareholders of companies which own property in perpetuity.

That is exactly the opposite of what has been stated to be the major objective of the Bill. It is exactly the opposite to what was sought by the Progressive Democrats when they brought their draft Bill before the Dáil last April. That is the major flaw in the Bill. While there are a number of extremely good and welcome features in this Bill, this is the provision which will put us in the position where we have no option but to vote against it. The taxpayers have paid out far too much already in compensation to clever speculators who know how to manipulate loopholes in the planning law. There is no way we can saddle that obligation on another generation of taxpayers for the next 25 years. I regret that a number of other very good features in the Bill stand to be eclipsed because of that fatal flaw and the other two I mentioned.

I welcome the effort made by the Minister's Department to address the trees and woodlands issue. I am particularly pleased by the manner in which that is being done. A number of other very good features have been incorporated in the Bill as well, but taking it overall as a comprehensive piece of legislation, it certainly is no charter to take the people of this country, private individuals and house developers, into the 21st century. By any standard it is not a people's charter. It is wide open to become a speculator's charter, a developer's charter. The Fianna Fáil Party have left themselves wide open to the charge that they are still in some way afraid to take on the developers, the rogue builders, the cute and clever speculators. It will be said that the captain's lady and Judy O'Grady are sisters under the skin. That is a pity.

I rise to speak on this Bill as an elected member of Dublin County Council, who have been faced with the brunt of the problems this House has been addressing. All previous speakers have referred to the difficulties which have arisen because of the very serious compensation claims with which local authorities have had to contend. Dublin County Council have had to contend with the bulk of spurious and totally unacceptable compensation claims.

There is some concern that the Minister has not adequately covered many of the difficulties with which we as a local authority have been faced. In hindsight wisdom is always available in abundance. We had to face the brunt of the Nora Shortt case which was referred to by Deputy Shatter. The lessons to be learned from that and from work currently in hand in County Dublin highlight some of the own goals we have been scoring in allowing some of these claims to come forward by virtue of our intentions with regard to long-term planning. We in County Dublin are at a very advanced stage in reviewing the county development plan. When one reads the documentation about the satellite towns and the difficulties that have arisen, the disappointments and the lack of progress in some respects, one discovers that at the heart of many of the compensation problems is the failure to provide for services underground well in advance of development, such as in the Nora Shortt case. The satellite town of Tallaght was to be serviced by main drainage which was going through the Dodder Valley, the line of least resistance. We had correctly and properly designated such a scenic and high amenity area of passive recreational use, but because the availability of services was an integral part of the potential linear parkland along the river a detailed legal argument arose in court.

One must be very critical of decisions which have been handed down on this subject by various justices. Mr. Justice McCarthy of the Supreme Court made very worthwhile speeches at summer seminars, away from the practical reality of the court, about what should and should not be done. The reason we have this crunch problem is that some right-wing decisions have been handed down in the courts, completely overriding the wording of the Constitution which provides that the common good should prevail over personal or individual rights. It is frustrating and infuriating that this has happened. For the past ten or 15 years the whole debate on this subject has been brought back to the question of whether this or that is constitutional. Legislation has been queried on the basis of case law, which I believe is very suspect vis-à-vis the common good. Decisions handed down have rewritten the rules and guidelines. We have a view on this matter.

This House can be criticised by all and sundry for its decisions and it is rightly open to public scrutiny. These decisions cannot be rescinded. Barristers use them to justify the payment of compensation claims. Some legal people have donned a mantle of expertise in this area and are much in demand to deal with cases of this kind. The Judiciary accept the arguments of these experts while 500,000 people in County Dublin lack elementary facilities and Dublin County Council are faced with compensation claims running into millions of pounds. How, in the name of God, can a judge accept that this is in the common good? We cannot finish what we started in 1972. The position defies reason and logic but it is fact.

We are now nit-picking about whether the legislation is constitutional and the Minister and the parliamentary draftsmen have tried to frame the Bill based on decisions of the court. Perhaps decisions in the future may be more enlightened. A case involving a compensation claim for £2 million will come up before the Supreme Court and the local authority will incur substantial legal costs to argue the various points. We will argue that the "common good" clause should override the claim for the £2 million compensation which cannot be justified.

To be fair, the amount of compensation paid to date has been very small although the impression is given from time to time, particularly in newspaper articles, that millions have been paid out. A case for compensation that is lost does not merit the same attention. In this Bill, the Minister has tried to help local authorities who are confronted with compensation claims. This particularly applies to Dublin County Council in relation to services. The vast amount of compensation claims are built around the availability of sanitary and water services. The provision for surplus capacity in future years and for connections are also taken into account.

I should like to see a number of issues considered on Committee Stage although it is not the function of this side of the House to put down amendments. Section 14 should apply to all current claims and notice should be given within two months of the signing of the Bill into law. The county manager should be empowered to specify a development which would contravene the plan. I fully accept the points the Minister made that zoning terminology did not arise in the Planning Act, 1963, and that it is a much maligned word. The Department, in consultation with local authorities, should consider in detail the request for the statutory five year review of development plans and maybe curtail the intent of the longer term planning. Times have changed so dramatically that some of the problems over the past ten or 15 years will not arise in future because, as Seán Lemass said when he spoke on this subject, the way to control the price of building land is to service more than you need. We have now reached that stage in County Dublin. Exorbitant values were put on land in the past ten or 15 years, mainly because of scarcity and, if you could prove that connections could be made to limited drainage facilities, you were in a unique position.

The question of zoning land and development is too broad to enact into detailed legislation because very often, in a co-operative way, we change our minds. Dublin County Council first introduced the 1972 development plan, we reviewed it in 1979 and it was not completed until 1983. We still have problems in this area. We have a very large Dublin Corporation housing land bank which is serviced, with roads laid. Unfortunately, the weeds are growing all over them. That was not the case ten years ago when there was a great shortage of serviced land.

The planning manager, who was confronted with compensation claims, in written documentation to the county council, highlighted dramatic changes and emphasised different areas from those in 1972. This is because of changing circumstances in Dublin city where we have to accommodate the substantial population growth. There are in the region of 8,000 to 10,000 young couples on the housing list and County Dublin has had to bear the brunt of development although the Minister's Department provided resources for facilities.

As elected members of the council we may now consider changing some of the corporation designated residential land to amenity land. I know they love to hear that in City Hall but that may be our decision because it is now a wilderness, not in use and will not be built on. There is a substantial drainage system in the Tallaght area and the bulk of the land involved is owned by the local authority. There is no likelihood of it being built on. What do we do? Do we sit on the resource indefinitely or do we try to utilise it by changing strategy? These are some of the issues the Minister's Department should be addressing because in time the problem could be solved. If there is a repeat of compensation claims in the satellite town areas, if surplus capacity is available and if connections can be made, the Minister will be faced with a dilemma in trying to deal with sanitary services. I appeal to the Minister to try to embrace all current claims and to improve the legislation on Committee Stage to deal with that situation. It would certainly take a large financial threat away from Dublin County Council and would avoid having to provide certain sums in our Estimates for these claims and for very high level costs associated with them.

Section 14 of the Bill states that the rules of arbitration should be amended to include a requirement that the arbitrator is not empowered to assume that services are available to a site if there is no permission in regard to that land. Neither should he be allowed to value the land for any development other than zoned use. I know the Minister, in his Second Stage speech, has dealt in some detail with the problems of land for zoned use. Perhaps some formula can be found and the current five year plan could then be reviewed. Pressure is put on planning authorities to be much more specific in their development plans. The planning department can be criticised for certain zonings and for attempting to control developments while at the same time they do not deliver on what they have committed themselves to. There is a need for improvement in that area.

We should amend paragraph 12 by inserting the words: "Regard should be had to any permission under the Principal Act to develop the land existing at the date of claim for compensation or at the time compensation is agreed or determined." It is stated in the Second Schedule that in certain instances permissions have expired during the duration of the claims. If this Bill is passed into law, hopefully claims will be dealt with promptly. In paragraph 9 it is suggested that the date should be omitted or that if any date is to be inserted it should be 1 October 1984 when zoning becomes compulsory under the 1963 Act. In that Act we should try to tighten up the definition of zoning. That would improve the legislation. As the Minister said, the definition of zoning is far too broad and it is very difficult to specify it in detail in legislation.

The Bill does not deal with national monument sites or lands within the red alert areas of airports and runways. I know there is no major airport in Deputy Connolly's area and he might not recognise the urgency of this matter. Difficulties arise consistently regarding the international airport in Dublin. Planning discussions have taken place at council level vis-à-vis the flight path. A major extension is well under way at the airport and as a result there will be further requirements regarding the safety of the flight path and so on. Perhaps a provision could be inserted in the Bill to deal with that matter.

Many claims for compensation have been made due to the lack of flexibility in the planning department. There has been constructive criticism from legitimate representatives in the construction sector. In County Dublin we embarked on a colossal undertaking in 1972. We endeavoured to develop three satellite towns. We put forward projections and said we would populate Tallaght to 100,000 and would do the same with Clondalkin, Lucan and Blanchardstown. We hoped to complete the development of the satellite towns by 1991. That theoretical planning concept was put forward at the time. Now some time later much positive progress has been made. It is very frustrating for one who represents two of those satellite towns to hear negative criticisms from those who do not know enough about them.

In Deputy Quinn's contribution he referred to Tallaght. I can understand why somebody would criticise Tallaght and the lack of resources there. That is not the fault of the planning system but rather the lack of co-ordinated development. We did not have people with responsibility to finish the job they started. Deputy Quinn's party leader, when he was in office, made a very encouraging decision to appoint a development co-ordinator. I can only assume that the appointment was prevented by inner managerial arguments. The position was never filled and therefore there was no co-ordination of development in County Dublin.

I can confirm that the Deputy is absolutely right.

I found that very frustrating and annoying. The Departments of Justice, Health and Education would have been involved in providing the facilities so badly needed for these satellite towns. The question of land ownership then arose and as a result the local authority owned a percentage of the proposed town centre development area in Tallaght. There were haggles about funds, disposal of land and so on. It has been a very frustrating experience to see these large populated satellite towns at various stages of development when much more could be achieved.

We now have a great opportunity to do something about this matter. While we are critical of the position regarding the satellite towns it should be a constructive criticism. About £400 million or £500 million of taxpayers money has gone into local authority and private housing. There has been vast investment in the provision of recreational facilities. Some Government Departments have done very little in this area, for example, the Department of Health as regards the provision of a hospital. Then there was the disgraceful decision of the Department of Education not to proceed with at least one third level college in a catchment area of about 500,000 people. More recently the Department of Education instructed the corporation to allow them to dispose of, for other uses, the reserved site for the third level college. This lack of progress and dynamic planning has created many arguments about land use and so on and has led to compensation claims being made.

While the Minister has gone as far as his advice allows him to go, there is a lot more that could be done particularly regarding the implementation of the development plans. It is absolutely unacceptable — I blame the local authority for this — that we should start reviewing the 1972 plan in 1979 and not conclude it until 1983. Land usage might change. There may be much greater potential for recreational use even on a temporary basis. For example, there are vast areas of residentially-zoned tracts of land in parts of County Dublin which could be put to temporary use, on a five-year basis, for amenity or park development.

There will be many interesting amendments tabled for Committee Stage. It would be my hope that the ridiculous conditions confronting local authorities would be redressed in the forthcoming legislation.

Debate adjourned.
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