Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 15 Dec 1988

Vol. 385 No. 8

Supplementary Estimates, 1988. - Vote 35: Industry and Commerce.

Minister for Industry and Commerce (Mr. R. Burke)

I move:

That a supplementary sum not exceeding £1,450,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of December, 1988, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Minister for Industry and Commerce, including certain services administered by that Office, and for payment of certain loans, subsidies, grants and grants-in-aid.

This Supplementary Estimate arises because of additional expenditure under the currency exchange loss subhead, and the need to provide additional funding to Eolas, KDW and IPC. The total involved is £5.9 million but this is reduced to a net increase of £1.45 million by savings arising in relation to departmental salaries, the IDA and SFADCo capital allocations, the Market Entry and Development Scheme operated by CTT, and increases in appropriations-in-aid.

An additional £3.410 million is required in relation to the currency exchange loss allocation, which is intended to meet the cost of exchange losses arising from the foreign risk cover provided by the Exchequer in respect of certain of the Industrial Credit Corporation's foreign borrowings for industry.

Expenditure in this area is influenced by a number of factors, principally the level of foreign borrowings, the repayments due and the difference in the exchange rates at the time of the drawdown of the loan and the exchange rates prevailing when repayments are due. Because of these factors, it is difficult to forecast accurately the level of expenditure required under this subhead in any given year.

The principal loan schemes in respect of which my Department cover ICC for exchange losses are: (i) The European Investment Bank Scheme, through which ICC provide loans to small and medium manufacturing firms for fixed assets investment; (ii) The working capital loan scheme, through which ICC provide loans for working capital for small and medium manufacturing firms; (iii) The working capital for exporters scheme, through which ICC provide loans for working capital for small and medium manufacturing firms to expand and open up new export markets; and (iv) general purpose foreign borrowing, through which ICC provide long term loans to Irish industry for various purposes at commercial Irish interest rates, rather than at concessionary rates, as with the other schemes.

Additional funding is required in 1988 because of the following factors: First, the need to include losses from a World Bank scheme, which was established some years ago to aid development in the industrial and wholesale distributive sectors. Losses under this scheme were dealt with previously by netting off losses against amounts owed by ICC in respect of Central Fund advances. The interest now payable to the Exchequer by ICC each half year is reducing, and is no longer sufficient to cover exchange losses on the World Bank scheme. A sum of £750,000 is required in this regard; Second, the adverse exchange rate movements against the IR£ since July 1987 when the 1988 exchange loss forecast was made. The additional amount required in 1988 for this reason is £1.2 million; and third, the fact that ICC were unable to complete the detailed analysis necessary to make a claim, for £860,000, under the working capital loan scheme by the end of 1987; and, finally, a re-evaluation by ICC of losses under this scheme in 1988 resulted in an additional requirement of £600,000 this year.

It is proposed to provide an additional £1.8 million to Eolas. Deputies will be aware that Eolas was established in January of this year under the Science and Technology Act, 1987, which effected the merger of the National Board for Science and Technology and the Institute for Industrial Research and Standards. Eolas inherited an accumulated deficit from the IIRS of the order of £1 million and the supplementary grant being proposed here today is intended to clear this deficit and to provide necessary additional funding for the agency's 1988 operations. This will place Eolas on a sound financial footing and will enable them to concentrate their energies on the important and fundamental part they have to play in our economic and industrial development.

The Government decision to establish Eolas was based on the view that a strong and well developed scientific and technical base, integrated with industry, is essential, if Ireland is to be economically successful in today's keenly competitive, high technology world. Eolas was intended to be a vital element in creating the proper and most effective framework in which the development and expansion of our industry, through science and technology, can take place. Over the last 12 months, the agency has made considerable progress in gearing itself up to effectively perform its role. I would like to take this opportunity of thanking the chairman and members of the board and the staff for their efforts in bringing this about.

As one would have expected, the past year has been a difficult one for the agency. There was a need for large-scale reorganisation and relocation; staff numbers had to be slimmed down to make the new body more cost effective and to eliminate duplication; priorities had to be reassessed in the light of Government policy and resources had to be marshalled towards more effectively meeting the essential technological needs of Irish industry.

With 1992 just a short time away and the opportunities and challenges of the European internal market becoming ever more pronounced, it is my belief that indigenous Irish industry needs to concentrate on raising the technological level of its operation and, thereby, producing higher quality products which can stand the heat of the competition which 1992 will bring. Eolas is the agency which can best help Irish industry in this regard and I am glad to say that they have made a very worth-while beginning in this task.

The functions of the agency are wide-ranging, some operated on a commercial basis and some in an industrial development mode. It promotes and co-ordinates national investment in science and technology; it seeks to optimise European Community funding for science and technological research in Ireland; it provides a national technical information service; it provides technical consulting and testing services; it monitors industrial research and development projects and it operates national quality and standard programmes. The Government see these services as being vitally important to Irish industry and are providing the necessary resources to Eolas to deliver them in the most effective way.

The agency is also responsible for the management and execution of the programmes being funded under the Government's science and technology development programme. The programme was set in train in 1987 with a budget of £3.1 million, was funded to the same extent in 1988, and will have a budget of £8.2 million in 1989. The programme is spearheading niche development in a number of key areas such as biotechnology, advanced manufacturing technology, microelectronics and in 1989 will be initiating programmes in other areas. The common theme running through all the actions funded in the programme is the transfer of new scientific and technical knowledge to Irish industry to enable it to compete and to develop new jobs.

As I have said, Eolas has a key part to play in implementation of Government policy in this area. It also, of course, has a key advisory role in the development of policy. In this regard, I might mention that the agency is currently putting the finishing touches to a draft strategy for science and technology in the nineties. This programme will be especially related to the exploitation of science and technology in support of future industrial development. I expect to have this draft plan submitted to me early in 1989 and I, and my Department, will be giving it very careful consideration.

The proposed supplementary grant of £1.8 million is a very clear indication, I think, of the importance the Government attaches to the activity of Eolas and will be of considerable benefit to the agency in performing their tasks.

It is proposed to provide additional funding of £600,000 to KDW. On 3 June 1988, the Dáil approved a Supplementary Estimate to provide Kilkenny Design Workshops Limited with additional grant-in-aid of £250,000 to enable the company to continue trading pending the sale of their assets. This Supplementary Estimate was necessary, as the House was informed at the time, because of a serious deterioration in KDW's financial position which became evident in the early part of this year. The House will recall that, primarily due to losses in the London retail operation, as well as the operating loss incurred in Ireland in 1986, considerable trading debts and substantial liabilities in respect of bank borrowings had accumulated. The immediate objective was to stop the haemorrhage of losses and to realise funds for payment to creditors. This necessitated the taking of hard commercial decisions: to close the London shop; to sell the shops in Dublin and Kilkenny; and to dispose of other assets, including properties in Kilkenny.

The Government were anxious to safeguard, in so far as possible, the positions of the many small companies and craft enterprises which were owed moneys by KDW and it was considered essential that the disposal of assets should be proceeded with in an orderly fashion to maximise realisations, to provide a continuing outlet for craft goods and to enable the company to come to satisfactory arrangements with their creditors. The Government were also anxious that the shops, in Dublin and Kilkenny, which are important outlets for high quality, well designed Irish craft goods, would continue as such under new ownership.

The ambitious target of disposal of assets, while at the same time ensuring continuity for suppliers, is nearing successful completion. The sale of the Kilkenny shop in Dublin was by public tender and on 18 November it was announced that it is to be sold to the highest bidder, Blarney Woollen Mills Group. The group, who have some 285 Irish suppliers, operate very successful retail outlets in Blarney, Dublin and the UK, in addition to owning a knitwear factory and hotel and leisure complex in Blarney. Blarney Woollen Mills have undertaken to retain all 37 staff in both the shop and the restaurant.

The Government have at all times been conscious that KDW are an integral part of Kilkenny's culture and heritage and make an important contribution to the thriving tourism industry there. In particular they recognised that the KDW properties at Kilkenny, which KDW had restored to a very high standard over the past 25 years, were of special historical importance located as a cohesive unit opposite Kilkenny Castle, enhancing the tourist amenities there. It was the wish of the Government that the necessary sale of KDW assets in Kilkenny should not adversely affect or diminish these aspects.

This view was also strongly held by the people of Kilkenny who welcomed the announcement made on 21 November, that the ownership of KDW's properties in Kilkenny — Castle Yard and Butler House — was being transferred to a civic trust which is being established in the city. An acceptable cash consideration will accrue to KDW and the decision will ensure that the activities which are currently being carried out in Kilkenny will be continued and that the historic and aesthetic qualities of the complex there will be secured.

The outstanding debts of KDW, particularly trade debts and bank loans are in excess of £2 million and the sale of assets will go only some of the way towards clearing those debts. It is proposed that a further sum of £600,000 should be provided now to enable KDW to pay the more pressing debts.

Finally, it is proposed to provide additional funding of £90,000 to the Irish Productivity Centre. The centre's grant-in-aid for 1988 at £440,000 was £147,000 less than that provided in 1987. I have, been concerned about the effects of this cut on the business advisory and labour management services provided by the centre to industry. I consider that an additional £90,000 would enable the IPC to continue its very valuable work of providing subsidised management consultency services to small firms and of developing more effective and constructive human relations in companies.

Mr. Lowry

I am grateful to have this opportunity to make a contribution on the Supplementary Estimate and in the time available to me I would like to comment on a number of areas. One would have to be concerned about the reductions in funding to Córas Tráchtála, during the past two years in particular, as these are certain to have an effect on the quality of services provided by specialist marketing staff in Dublin and overseas. Córas Tráchtála have had to accommodate the reductions in their 1988 grant-in-aid by introducing a voluntary staff severance scheme under which some 40 highly qualified staff have left the organisation. They have also had to introduce charges for services they provide and these have placed a further burden on many hard-pressed industries.

They have also found it necessary to revise their incentive grants programmes, introducing a scheme whereby the financial incentives given to industry are to be repaid to Córas Tráchtála over ensuing years. Córas Tráchtála are also hindered by the present embargo on promotions and recruitment and continue to lose specialist marketing staff to provide industry at an ever-increasing rate. I am deeply concerned that, at a time when there is a growing need to provide the range of services demanded by industry, particularly in the context of 1992, the capacity of Córas Tráchtála to respond is being undermined by a haemhorrage of highly experienced and specialist personnel through a combination of losses to the private sector——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I would like to remind the Deputy that in respect of Supplementary Estimates, the Deputy may deal only with those matters to which reference has been made. No reference has been made to Córas Tráchtála in the Supplementary Estimate.

Mr. Lowry

Reference is made to Córas Tráchtála in the summary.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I do not think any provision is made for Córas Tráchtála.

Mr. R. Burke

Not in respect of CTT, but there is a saving in one of the development schemes.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy is entitled to refer to savings but not to develop the point at any great length.

Mr. Lowry

Thank you, a Leas Cheann Comhairle, I take your point. This is happening at a time when everyone accepts that strong, consistent and forceful marketing is essential. This point is highlighted in the following extract from "The Ireland and Marketing Report" to the Sectoral Development Committee prepared by the Consultative Committee on Marketing which states:

There is an urgent need to upgrade the marketing performance of indigenous Irish industry. Over the years many companies with the technical competence to produce excellent products have been losing business to imports as a direct result of poor marketing performance. Eighty per cent of Irish companies are small, employing less than 50 people and as a consequence, the owner-manager has to perform many functions including production, accounting, selling etc. Often the vital area of marketing is ignored.

It has been clearly established from evidence available that the home market currently provides enormous opportunities for Irish manufacturing industry to meet domestic purchasing requirements which are serviced by imports. Import substitution represents annual new business potential for Irish firms worth in excess of £2 billion annually. The extra sales potential of £1.2 billion is comprised as follows: food and non-food grocery, £200 million; clothing, £120 million; furniture-carpets, £105 million; household goods including gifts, etc. £90 million and industrial products, £750 million. The scale of opportunity is indicated by the high level of imports in the Irish economy. Ireland's total imports of goods and services are equivalent to 53.4 per cent of GNP compared with a European Community average of 28.5 per cent. In manufactured goods, import growth accelerated following Ireland's membership of the European Community. In the short term much of this growth was predictable but the trend has continued. Between 1979 and 1984 the value of manufactured imports, in current prices, rose by 86 per cent. The benefits of a sustained marketing thrust by Irish manufacturers to win an increased share of home market sales are significant and would include the following: steady expansion by existing manufacturing firms; scope for new business ventures; maintaining employment and creating new job opportunities throughout the economy; halting the import propensity of Irish industrial and domestic purchasers and stimulating the indigenous sub-supply sector; increasing the sophistication of Irish industry in production, product development and marketing and developing the export potential of Irish firms.

A number of reasons can be advanced for the growth of manufactured imports. The most important has been poor marketing performance. The Sectoral Development Committee in their report on marketing identified this weakness in marketing as the area most in need of improvement in Irish industry as a whole. A major upgrading in the marketing skills of indigenous industry is needed if the competitive performance of indigenous industry is to be improved. Of the many firms which depend exclusively or mainly on domestic sales, survival will depend critically on their ability to increase or at least maintain market share. Obviously cost effectiveness, production and marketing are very important factors in job creation.

I should like to refer to emigration and job creation. Unemployment and the rising tide of emigration are the modern day cancers of our society. It is obvious that Government policies are totally inadequate and making no real progress in arresting this unacceptable malise. While we expect and are entitled to demand proper leadership from Government, the public must be prepared to play their part in this task, especially during this peak spending period. They should be conscious that there is a direct relationship between buying Irish-made products and jobs. This is beyond argument. For example, we import over £1 million of clothing every day of the year. There are enough garments imported every week to keep 18 factories, each with 100 workers, busy for 48 weeks of the year. There are clothing imports from Third World countries where those employed are paid little better than in slave labour terms. I know we all like to find a bargain, but one must ask at what price? Surely some of these people in Third World countries are being exploited by us through our purchasing choice of products.

A great deal is being written and spoken about 1992. One thing we can be certain of is the need for greater professionalism in all aspects of business, product development, marketing, and retailing. There is, of course, a great challenge in Europe and a great opportunity for our exports to Europe but we must not overlook our home market. Manufacturers in Ireland need a secure home base: we are Europeans but we are Irish first. Our market is more open than those of our European neighbours. Import penetration here is double that of other European average. Urging, as I do, support for our home industries is nothing more than enlightened self-interest.

We all want our families and friends to be able to work and live here in Ireland. Every pound we spend on imported products simply goes to make jobs for people in other countries. How many of us, for instance, are wearing Irisn made footwear? The national average would put nine out of every ten of us wearing imported shoes. We are entitled to freedom of choice — and I do not for an instant wish to lessen that freedon of choice — but such freedom is denied us if the choice is not available in our shops. At present we import over £250 million worth of building materials and £55 million worth of imported furniture per year. Every £1 imported represents lost job opportunities for our young people. We cannot overstate the importance of supporting Guaranteed Irish products.

Is there a family in this country who have not been touched by the blight of unemployment? We are unanimous in our desire to stop emigration, to reduce unemployment, to see jobs saved, and new jobs created but if we persist in spending vast amounts of money on unnecessary imports we simply fuel unemployment. The amount of money spent, particularly at this time of year, will create jobs but the question is: will those jobs be created here at home for our families or for people of other countries? We know we need jobs for our people now and in the future. We know that jobs can best be made through production, whether agricultural or industrial production, and yet we continue to import the very products we produce ourselves and then we wonder why factories close. Last year we imported more than £70 million worth of chocolates and sweets and over £27 million of newspapers and magazines. A small number of people and organisations do the importing but a large number of us end up buying these imports. The silent majority in this country take the easy option by their very silence. I urge all of us to speak up and be heard, asking and demanding that Irish made products be on offer.

I want to conclude by referring to the recently published review of the Programme for National Recovery carried out by the Central Review Committee in relation to job creation figures. In this programme job creation and progress are measured by figures which give an inaccurate picture. The total figure of 14,943 jobs estimated is for first time jobs, 89 per cent of which are in manufacturing industry. It does not allow for replacement job numbers and only 3 per cent of the labour force are employed in first time jobs. Forty seven per cent of the Irish labour force of over 1.3 million people are employed in the service sector and only 23 per cent in industry. The Industrial Development Authority's brief is for internationally traded services but this accounts for only 1,375 jobs. The IDA area covers 88 per cent of the population, which accounts for 3.5 million people, whereas SFADCo with their wide-ranging powers cover 10 per cent of the population. The figures indicate that the IDA have managed to create only 12,500 jobs while SFADCo have created almost 2,000 jobs. This leads one to the conclusion that the ratio of job creation by the IDA is unsatisfactory. I suggest that the IDA should be given a wider brief to include all service industries and tourism, similar to SFADCo and Údarás na Gaeltachta. Perhaps the Minister would say how many of the SFADCo job figures were IDA-transferred.

The Government should use the CSO employment statistics instead of first-time jobs as a measure and we would then get a true reflection of the position.

The IDA are giving their sales people in the field too much credit for new job opportunities. They are placing too much emphasis on this aspect, to the detriment of existing industries who are not receiving the support and attention they require. In many cases job losses have resulted from that neglect. It is not wilful neglect but obviously IDA executives and their people in the field are so concerned about reaching job targets that they are forgetting about the jobs being lost behind the scenes.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Lowry has given a very interesting and commendable contribution on matters pertinent to Industry and Commerce generally but in respect of debate of this kind the Deputy is requested — indeed obliged — to comment in the main only on what is provided for in the Supplementary Estimate. I know that Deputy Martin Cullen will oblige accordingly.

Mr. Cullen

The Minister in presenting the Supplementary Estimate has laid great stress on telling us that £3.4 million has been saved because of reductions in the capital budgets of SFADCo and the IDA and in the very important market entry and development programmes run by CTT. Productive capital moneys that could be used are being transferred to write-off a current expenditure loss. The Minister is telling us that the figure is not £5 million but £1.45 million because of the saving of £3.45 million he has been able to make. That is not the manner in which the figures should be presented. There is a real loss of £3.45 million which could be used to create jobs but it is being transferred to write-off currency exchange losses.

I agree with the Minister that Eolas has a very important future in the development of technology but I do not believe that he and his Department have defined the role of Eolas. The Department instituted this year a technology pilot programme. Apart from a few appointments and more co-ordination between industry and some of the educational institutes, not much is happening. Does the Minister mean a technology pilot programme based on what has happened in the United States or the recent type of technology park which has been created in the UK, where there is to be £400 million worth of development? We cannot say a technology park is to be created here if we do not have the wherewithal to create the environs for the high technology industries we need to attract. A great deal of discussion is taking place as to whether we should concentrate on computers or pharmaceuticals or whether all these things should be components in a technology-orientated economy. Those decisions have not been taken. At the core of any technology developments which have occurred has been a sophisticated technological institute or university which the private sector can feed into with their own investment. Highly educated students become part of and relevant to the private sector and they become involved in industrial research at an early stage. It is ridiculous to imagine that this country with such a small population base and an insufficient amount of capital has the wherewithal to develop research and development laboratories on its own. We simply cannot do it. I contend that Eolas, under the Department, should be looking at the Development of a central technological research unit into which many industries, large or small, could feed.

The Minister said that Eolas seeks to optimise European Community funding for science and technology research in Ireland. I was glad to hear the Minister put this point on record. I was hoping some efforts would be made to co-ordinate European funding in this area. Under the aegis of the Department of Industry and Commerce, it is an area which provides great opportunity for employment creation and the attraction of foreign industries. There is an onus on the Minister to spell out the role of Eolas and say where it is going.

The importance of the role played by CTT is being lost in a bit of a haze. CTT is an extremely important body and the export potential from Ireland is tremendous, particularly in the context of 1992. Real benefits could accrue to CTT as opposed to the IDA. There is overlapping between the two bodies in certain areas and it is not always clear which of them is responsible and who should take the lead. We need to know how the IDA and CTT are to develop in the future.

Many companies are sitting back and simply talking about what might happen in 1992. For an enormous amount of industry throughout Europe 1992 has already happened. Many of them made their plans years ago and others are involved in doing so at present. It is essential to get the message across that this is happening now. The emphasis must be changed in order to remove from industry this relaxed attitude that 1992 is still a few years away. There will be great bonuses with the creation of the Single European Market in regard to the creation of jobs, the development of exports and the centralisation of distribution networks within Europe, but all these things are already in the process of development. This message must be put across to industry.

The whole purpose of Supplementary Estimates and the granting of finance in different areas is job creation. If the figures the Minister has given were accurate and could stand on their own, that would be fine. What we are not taking into account is the unfortunate job losses that are occuring in the manufacturing sector. Our rate of growth is not comparable to stabilising the unemployment figures or to substantially reducing them.

The creation of jobs is not something that is isolated. It is related to poverty and taxation. I took great umbrage with the MRBI poll in The Irish Times recently in which people were asked if they wanted tax reductions or if they wanted something done about poverty as if they were not related. Of course they are related, and job creation is at the base of the problem. The Department of Industry and Commerce must turn their minds to this and must be clear and concise in what they are doing in this regard. In the area of industry and commerce clear decisions have not been taken as to who will lead the policy development.

The Minister referred to the Kilkenny Design shops. What happened in that regard was unfortunate. It was inevitable that the shops would have to be sold off. The fact that a trust has been set up in Kilkenny is a step in the right direction. Finally, I would like to congratulate the Minister on being appointed Minister for Industry and Commerce and I wish him every success in that capacity.

Minister for Industry and Commerce (Mr. R. Burke)

I am grateful to the Deputies for their contributions to the debate on this Supplementary Estimate. Deputy Lowry commented on the continuing need for the support for Irish goods. Much of the efforts of the Department of Industry and Commerce, the State agencies associated with them and the community as a whole, would be helped dramatically if there was a conscious drive by the people of Ireland to change the attitude in relation to the support of Irish goods. At present we import 57 per cent of all goods used in this country and we supply only 43 per cent. If we could increase that figure to 50 per cent it would mean that an extra £1 billion worth of home produced goods would be purchased. High quality home produced goods and services are available. In turn, that £1 billion would provide 30,000 jobs for our people. Surely it is not too much to ask that we try to achieve that target. In the lead up to 1992, to accept Deputy Cullen's point, we should try to get that message across to the people. When that is compared with the efforts of the IDA, CTT, SFADCo, Údarás na Gaeltachta, Aer Rianta, Aer Lingus and so on, it is a very high goal and one which we must aim at as a Government and as a people. This goes far beyond Government initiatives and encouragement; it is as a people that we must rally behind the promotion of the excellent goods and services we are selling on the world market.

The world market does not owe Ireland a living. This year we have succeeded in selling over £12 billion worth of goods abroad. If we can sell these goods abroad why can we not sell them at home? I can assure the House that a far greater effort will be made in the future to complement the efforts of the Minister of State with responsibility for trade and marketing who has been so active in this area in the 20 months since he has been appointed.

In relation to the point made about the role of science and technology, the House will be aware that this role was clearly laid down and defined in legislation. It is being pursued vigorously by Eolas in addition to the wide range of programmes operated by them. The Government science and technology development programme is spearheading development in a number of areas. Again, the Minister responsible, Deputy Seán McCarthy, has been very active in this whole area and in encouraging Eolas to get involved in research and development in new technology so that we can get our indigenous and exporting industries in place for the challenges of the future. We want to be able to take advantage of the opportunities that will be presented to us in the future, particularly by a rapidly expanding market in the EC.

As far as CTT and their role is concerned, I should like to state that as a new Minister I must look at the agency to see if everything is being done according to the needs of the country rather than checking to see if the agencies are performing as they did before. It is not enough to provide extra money for them or to deal with matters on a day to day basis. What I intend to do is to consider all the agencies under my Department, including CTT. When I mention CTT I must state that a national marketing plan is about to be launched and that body have played a major role in this regard.

I share Deputy Cullen's view in relation to 1992. There is so much talk about 1992 that one would think nothing is going to happen between now and then. That is not the attitude being taken by the Government in their publicity campaigns and the series of meetings being organised by every Government Minister. We are continuing to put the message across to industry that preparations for 1992 should be undertaken now. By the end of this year, for example, 50 per cent of all the directives dealing with industry and the change that will take place in 1992 will have been passed by the Community.

As far as the position of Kilkenny Design Workshops is concerned, I accept Deputy Cullen's comments that measures have been put in place in Kilkenny city in regard to the buying of the shops and so on. I also share the point made in relation to job losses. One of our goals has to be not just job creation but also job maintenance and it is in that regard that the support of Irish goods is needed. Yesterday a novel scheme was launched, the patron and mentor scheme. Under the patron scheme, major companies, plc's and private companies, will adopt, so to speak, small indigenous companies and try to help them with management expertise. With the mentor programme we will use the experience of retired executives, again for the benefit of smaller companies. We want to try to keep these companies in operation in order to maintain employment. It is no good creating jobs on the one hand if, on the other, we are losing them. Thankfully we have reversed that trend in the last 12 months. The labour force survey of April showed that there were 6,000 more at work than the previous year, the first time that has happened for many years past. Again I am anticipating, through the Small Industries Division of my Department and the jobs targeted in the Programme for National Recovery, a successful year in 1988.

I thank Deputies for their contributions. I thank Deputy Cullen for his congratulations on my appointment. I can assure him that I and my two Ministers of State will be available to any Member of the House on any issue which they feel would in any way produce extra jobs. Jobs must be our target, not merely as a Government, but as a country, and we are open to any assistance or advice we can receive no matter from what quarter it emanates.

Vote put and agreed to.