asked the Taoiseach the number of members of the boards of State bodies who are women; the percentage of the total members who are women; if he has any plans to encourage an appointment of a greater number of women; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Women Representation on Boards.
4.
At end of 1988 there were 298 women on the boards of State-sponsored bodies out of a total board membership of 2,366, that is 13 per cent. Of the total membership of 2,366, Government appointees number 1,545, of which 242 or 16 per cent are women.
At the beginning of the Government's current term of office, I instructed each member of the Government to advance the position and status of women in all aspects of their responsibilities. This includes appointments to the boards of State-sponsored bodies where the possibility of making such appointments arises. Since assuming office, the Government have ensured that women are represented to the greatest possible extent on State boards especially when new boards are being established.
When the Taoiseach says that his Cabinet attempt to ensure the representation of women to the greatest possible extent, what limiting factors does he see in achieving that? Given the proportion of women in the population, does the Taoiseach accept that women's representation on State bodies should rise to about 50 per cent?
In fact, on two occasions recently we have achieved the target of 50 per cent representation, and I am sure the Deputy would like to give us credit for that. Unfortunately the limiting factor — which the Deputy should know — is the availability of suitably qualified women with the necessary level of expertise for particular appointments. I want to assure the Deputy that every time this Government are making appointments we search assiduously to find suitable women for such appointments. I think we have not been doing too badly.
It is not that difficult.
I wonder what is the basis of the Taoiseach's last assertion?
I would like to point out to the Deputy that on two occasions we have succeeded in appointing women to 50 per cent of the membership of new boards. We have invaded such sacrosanct male preserves as the Central Bank and Irish Life with women appointees.
If the Taoiseach has any problem finding women, we will help him.
If the Deputy will accept, I will appoint her straightaway.
Could a different evaluation of the talents and skills necessary for appointment be explored as it is a male perception of the qualifications needed for such appointments? Is the Taoiseach aware that a great number of the boards to which appointments are and should be made, address themselves to the consumer, of which up to 80 per cent may be women? I would not insult the Taoiseach or this House by suggesting that the experience and expertise of women as consumers would not be seen as suitable to allow them to be represented on boards. May I also ask——
The question is becoming rather long, Deputy.
It relates to the figures given by the Taoiseach in his reply. On account of the low percentage of women appointed to State boards and the slow progress in all Departments, arising from the co-ordinated report would the Government give a pledge to have an affirmative action programme in each of the Departments to ensure that not only the Taoiseach but every other Minister and nominating body would work towards this end?
It is tending to become a speech, Deputy.
It deserves a speech.
At the appropriate time perhaps, but not at Question Time.
I would claim that we have such an affirmative programme. The one woman member of the Government would confirm this: we go to great lengths to try to indentify suitably qualified women for appointment to the boards. I am sure the Deputy would agree with me that there is no point — in fact it is detrimental to appoint women to boards for which they would not be qualified.
By whose standards?
I would like to point out that when we took affirmative action in the case of Irish Life by the appointment of a woman to that board, we were attacked because we removed a man, and none of the women advocates rallied to our defence.
(Interruptions.)
None of the women advocates rallied to our defence at that time.
I have dwelt overlong on this question. One supplementary from Deputy Stagg and one from Deputy Colley, if they will be very brief and relevant.
Is it not the reflection on our society that the Government have found it difficult to find numbers of suitably qualified women in our society? Would the Taoiseach agree that that is a reflection on his Government and on previous Fianna Fáil Governments since the foundation of the State?
No, I would not agree with that. I would say it is more a reflection of history and tradition in this country, but the situation is improving steadily. We do not have now the same difficulty in finding suitable women for appointment to all sorts of positions as we did, for instance, when I started out in political life.
Is the Taoiseach aware there are Ministers in his Government who do not share his apparent enthusiasm for the appointment of women——
Name them.
——to certain posts? There are certain Ministers who ab initio have appointed a number of boards without women. I am thinking particularly of one in the Department of Trade and Marketing, appointed within the last year — with 13 men and no women. Is the Taoiseach also aware that Ministers in his Government have under their control the appointment of Garda recruits and Army personnel and that women have been excluded from positions——
A brief question.
——or are not encouraged to play their part?
There are a number of misstatements in that question and I cannot deal with them all. Most of these appointments come before the Government. They are not the responsibility of any individual Minister. The general ethos of this Government is, if at all possible, to improve the situation. As I said at the beginning, on every case that comes before us we spend a great deal of time trying to identify and find suitable women in every part of the country for appointment to State boards and for other appointments.