asked the Taoiseach the basis for the statement made in a report (details supplied) by the Minister of State at his Department to the effect that to her knowledge each county manager had reported back to their respective local authorities after each meeting of the working groups of which they were members, established for the purposes of the preparation of Ireland's integrated programme for application for assistance to the EC; and whether he is aware that the statement is at variance with the experience of many elected representatives of local authorities; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Integrated Programme for EC Funds.
3.
The basis of the statement is the fact that each manager is an officer of his local authority and, in accordance with normal practice, would give the authority all advice and assistance they need to carry out their duties. The Minister of State indicated in her interview that managers had, so far as her knowledge went, followed this practice.
I listened with attention to the extensive interview the Minister of State gave the public at large. Arising out of what she said, and what is contained in the official transcript from RTÉ, would she not now admit that she and the rest of the Government have grounds for grevious concern at the failure of county managers throughout the country to report "after each meeting of the working groups to the elected representatives"? No doubt, since Fianna Fáil are substantially represented on local authorities — indeed in many instances holding a majority — she will be aware that such reports have not been given?
It is unfair to label every county manager in the country as being a person who does not come back and report after each of the working group meetings. Perhaps it was unfortunate that I accepted that every county manager would be as enlightened as my own — I am sure Deputy Michael Higgins will bear me out on that — in reporting back on the working groups. If the Deputy has specific instances where he would like to have greater co-ordination between the work of the working group, through the county manager to the local authorities, that is something I am prepared to follow up, but I would remind the Deputy that the involvement of the local authorities in the preparation of these programmes is not part of their legal functions and, as such, there is no legislative provision on how county managers should carry out their activities. However, I would feel — and it has been the normal practice established — that in relation to all of the work they carry out as county managers on behalf of their elected public representatives, they would be reporting back in the normal course of events.
Would the Minister of State be prepared now — having regard to the magnitude of the project in hand — to make available to this House, or to the elected representatives of the various local authorities, the formal reports which no doubt the managers must have, if not the minutes, of the working groups' meetings they attended on behalf of the elected representatives?
It would be a matter for the chairperson of each local authority, in full co-operation with each of the elected members of that local authority, to request their county manager to provide that information for them.
Would the Minister of State so direct?
Would the Minister of State not agree that no Government have ever been in a better position to ensure that county managers report to local authorities in view of the fact that so many Ministers of State continue to act as members of local authorities despite the fact that they are also members of the Government? Would the Taoiseach instruct these continuing public representatives to make use of that facility to ensure that these reports are presented?
As the Deputy is aware, no Minister of State is a member of the Government.
They serve the Government in a page capacity.
That is not what the Deputy said. In reply to the final supplementary I should say to Deputy Quinn that, as he knows, I would not have a legal function in directing any county manager to report back to his local authority.
One does not necessarily——
I want to deal with other questions also. I take it the Deputy will be brief?
I do not think any other question has a price tag of £4,000 million attached to it as has this one.
All questions are important to the Chair.
Having regard to her role vis-á-vis this co-ordinating exercise would the Minister of State request every county manager to make available to public representatives a report——
We are having repetition. The Deputy has already made that point.
The Minister said she had not the legal powers.
Let us not enter into the realm of argument now.
Deputies Quinn and M. Higgins rose.
There are two Deputies offering. I am afraid I cannot facilitate them.
(Interruptions.)
For the information of the House perhaps I might say that — as Deputy Quinn is aware — I attended the inaugural meeting of each of the working groups. One question asked at each of the inaugural meetings was what should be the basis of reporting back to local authorities? I strongly advised each of the county managers at that stage that they should report back on a regular basis to each of their publicly elected representatives.
I am calling Question No. 4.
The Minister of State has made reference to the local authority of which she and I are members——
The Deputy must find another way of raising that matter——
There has been one report that has not yet been discussed.
It has been on the agenda of the last two meetings.
There has been no regular reporting; I know because I have been at the meetings.