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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 28 Feb 1989

Vol. 387 No. 7

Private Members' Business. - Harbours (Shannon Estuary Development Corporation) Bill, 1988: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

When I moved the Adjournment of the debate on this Bill I was about to elucidate to the House how the Government arrived at a decision in relation to the relocation of the headquarters of the proposed development corporation. A very interesting scenario developed when the Minister for Defence was in Australia on official business. His colleague from Limerick West, the Minister for Justice, Deputy Collins, was in Dublin and the Government made a decision in relation to the location of the corporation. Why was that decision made at the Government meeting? That is something I cannot answer. One can only conclude that the Minister for Justice, Deputy Collins, did a certain amount of arm twisting in the absence of his colleague to get this headquarters located at Foynes. Not alone did he pull a smart stroke on his colleague in west Limerick, he then proceeded, behind the back of his colleague, the Minister for the Marine, two days in advance of the announcement of the proposed location of the headquarters, to announce that it was to be located in Foynes. Since then the Minister for Justice has been touring his constituency telling the people of Foynes about the tremendous job opportunity this decision will bring to the Foynes area and the enormous number of people who will be employed, raising false hopes in west Limerick.

This is very irresponsible behaviour on the part of a Government Minister. It is irresponsible to act in such a fashion and to mislead the local population. This Bill clearly states that the staffs of the existing authorities in Limerick, Foynes and Kilrush will all be absorbed under this legislation. If these people are to be employed, where is the tremendous potential for job opportunities? The reality is there is none. The Minister for Justice is bluffing in west Limerick and it is time to call his bluff.

Indeed, two or three years ago when the then Minister, Deputy Mitchell, introduced a Bill the present Minister strongly objected in this House and through the media that Foynes did not want to become involved in any type of estuarial authority. How come the Minister has changed his mind so quickly in relation to this matter? How is it that there is such a sudden conversion? One would have to seriously question the judgment of the Minister if he is so quick to change his mind when he appeared to hold such strong views just over two and a half years ago.

The headquarters are supposed to be in Foynes. This is very unusual. This is just a sop and now the Minister is trying to justify his support of the inclusion of the Foynes Harbour Commissioners in the overall development corporation by the Shannon Estuary.

When I spoke in the House the last time, I outlined in detail my attitude to the overall Bill. At this point I would like to go through the Bill section by section. The title of the Bill is "Harbours (Shannon Estuary Development Corporation) Bill". We already have a development company in the region in the form of SFADCo, Shannon Free Airport Development Corporation. That semi-State organisation has responsibility for development of industry and tourism in the region. Here we are talking about a development corporation with similar responsibilities in many areas. Section 4 deals basically with the functions of the corporation and gives them functions, such as investment in marine related industrial, tourist, recreational and amenity facilities, such investment to be in activities to be carried out in or adjacent to the waters of the Shannon Estuary. It goes on to talk about promoting and assisting to develop the use of the corporation's functional area by commercial and trading enterprises for such activities as are likely to increase the use of that area for activities of a marine related nature. The only part I feel directly relates to a Harbours Bill is section 4 (1) (c) which states that the Harbours Bill is:

to manage, maintain, operate and develop the existing harbours,

and I would go further and say to develop additional harbours if the business of that waterway requires such further development. I believe that additional function to be an overlap of the responsibilities of semi-State companies that already have control in that area. There could be confusion and it is unfortunate that this extended function is included in this Bill.

In section 3 the Minister talks about the establishment of the body corporate. We find out the basic details as to how that body will be formed and there are legal details in relation to that section.

In relation to section 4 (3) I am very concerned about the overall position of the estuary and the application of the Structural Funds to estuary development and how SEDCo will co-operate with SFADCo in regard to submissions for Structural Fund grants. There could be serious complications there. Section 4 (3) states:

Nothing in subsection (1) (b) of this section shall empower the Corporation to provide financial assistance, or to subsidise in any other way, projects for facilities which may be undertaken or provided by any other body in the Corporation's functional area, or otherwise to carry out functions assigned by statute to any other body.

If SFADCo feel that they have a valid application to make for financial assistance from the European Structural Fund, how do they do it? The Bill says that nothing here shall empower the corporation to provide financial assistance or to subsidise in any other way. This is very confusing and could lead to a hindrance of development of ports, which is what this Bill should be encouraging, and add to the bureaucratic layer of trying to process this and get it cleared by SFADCo. This process would not lead to efficient, quick overall development and it is something the Minister must look at very closely in reconsidering that section.

Section 4 (4) states:

The Corporation shall not, when carrying out any of its functions referred to in subsection (1) (a) or (1) (b) of this section, incur expenditure (including borrowing) without having—

(i) satisfied itself that any proposed investment is capable of achieving a commercially acceptable rate of return on capital employed, taking account of all possible costs and potential risks,

One would have to question how this will operate because we are talking about appointing a board, and it is not clear that there will be members on that board capable of making the decision that this subsection requires, particularly in relation to port development. This is a weakness in this subsection.

Subsection (4) (ii) relates to seeking the prior consent of the Minister in relation to borrowing in excess of £200,000. That is a very small amount of money when one views the cost involved in the structural development of ports. I keep referring to development of ports because it is a serious concern for the Shannon Estuary. That figure is rather restrictive.

Section 5 gives a clear definition of what the functional area of the Bill is. It is just the Shannon Estuary area. As a representative from County Clare I would like to say that Clare County Council are particularly concerned about this Bill and the responsibilities that this Bill could indirectly place on it because Clare County Council is the one local authority that has a very extensive shoreline on to the estuary from Loop Head almost to Limerick City. We are talking about 90 miles of shoreline. Clare County Council are concerned about the extra costs and responsibilities they could incur as a local authority providing the essential infrastructure in that area in terms of roads, water and sewerage, without giving them any definite say on the proposed corporation.

They have their representative.

One out of 13, and yet they are responsible for over 50 per cent of the shoreline of the estuary. Is that what one would call proportional representation? It is very unbalanced representation, but I will go into the finer details of representation later.

I have already dealt with the location of the principal offices in Foynes, County Limerick. The reality is, as I said the last day, the board of Foynes Harbour Trustees are not anxious to get involved in this. The last thing they want is the offices of this proposed authority located in Foynes. They just do not want to be involved. It is ridiculous that somebody would, through legislation, locate these headquarters in an area where the people do not want to be involved. It is very foolish to put any piece of legislation through this House specifically identifying one location as the proposed headquarters over and above another. It should be a matter for the members of the corporation at their first meeting to decide where the headquarters should be. I object to naming one location in this Bill over and above another. This should not be statutory. It should be more flexible and should be decided by the corporation.

Section 7 provides for the dissolution of the Limerick Harbour Commissioners and the Foynes Harbour Trustees and the Kilrush Urban District Council as a harbour authority. Why is not Clarecastle included in this section? There is an authority in that area — the Clarecastle Harbour Commissioners.

The Clarecastle Harbour Trustees. They are provided for under separate legislation.

They are not part of this overall structure. They feel discriminated against and excluded. They feel that if anything good is to emanate from this Bill they will not be in a position to avail of it. Very serious concern is being expressed by the people in Clarecastle and Ennis.

Is the Deputy suggesting that they be included in this legislation? What is the Deputy suggesting?

I am suggesting that if there is to be an estuary development corporation or an estuary development authority it should apply right across the board——

The Deputy wants Clarecastle included?

I am suggesting——

We want to be clear about what the Deputy wants.

I am suggesting that they should not be discriminated against when they are anxious to be included. The position is somewhat different to that in Foynes where the people are anxious to remain independent.

There will be 13 members on the corporation — a very limited membership. Every member of the corporation should be appointed by the Minister in accordance with this section. The corporation will consist of the chairman and not more than 12 other members. There will be one member from each of the local authorities of Kerry, Clare, Limerick Corporation, Limerick County Council and Shannon Free Development, and two persons the Minister believes to be representative of port users — that is a very loose interpretation. In a later subsection the Minister goes on to interpret what a port user is. The inclusion of a genuine port user who really knows all about ports as against somebody who just uses the port, could make a major difference to the dynamism, efficiency and overall effectiveness of the board. That would want to be far more clearly specified.

There is a very unusual provision in section 8 (1) (d). It refers to the persons who immediately before the establishment day held the posts of Secretary of Foynes Harbour Trustees and Harbour Master of Foynes Harbour Trustees. The secretary and the harbour master of Foynes are given special recognition in this Bill. Why are these two positions given special recognition? Why is special recognition not given to the Limerick Harbour Commissioners or the Kilrush Urban District Council? This is a question that must be answered because this is clearly an unfair section which does not involve the other harbour authorities on the estuary. It is grossly unfair that one authority should be elevated and recognised on a statutory basis over and above other authorities on the estuary. I totally disagree with this paragraph. I understand the people in Foynes do not want it and that the Secretary of Foynes Harbour Trustees is not anxious to be the secretary of a Shannon Development Corporation. That is the ludicrous situation that exists.

The overall membership of the corporation does not lend itself towards proper estuary development. The manner in which this Bill proposes, to appoint people is totally unsatisfactory. What is needed is a broader based representation. The extraordinary thing is that all the harbour authorities on the estuary, and indeed the local authorities, are very dissatisfied with this Bill. There is a need for the Minister and his Department to reconsider the entire membership of the corporation. It does not take into account Kilrush Urban District Council and the Minister makes no provision for representation of that urban district council in the Bill.

As the Minister is aware, Kilrush was a very busy port when smaller boats were in use, but in later years it has not been as busy as one would have wished. At the same time, there is a facility there that can be substantially improved and extended. It is very unfortunate that this facility on the lower part of the Shannon is not represented on the proposed corporation. I am asking the Minister this evening to include at least one member from the Kilrush Urban District Council on this new corporation.

In relation to the Limerick Harbour Commissioners, it is unthinkable that no accommodation is made in this Bill for any of the people on this commission. Limerick Harbour Commissioners have provided a very fine, extensive and developing service on the estuary over the years and it is entirely unacceptable that they are not even representated on this board.

The Bill is full of discriminatory clauses and sections that do not lend themselves in any way to the proper development of the Shannon estuary. I think it is extremely unfortunate that this type of detail has been included in the Bill. In the section outlining the membership of the corporation, the Minister further defined a port user as a person with wide experience of, or capacity in, finance, commerce, shipping, law or management. I would like the Minister, when replying on second Stage, to give us greater detail of what he would take into consideration when appointing somebody with experience of, or capacity in, finance, commence, shipping, law and management. These are wide ranging categories, which remind me of the vocational panels in the Seanad. It is amazing what limited experience can bring one into one, two or three panels. I think the same situation could develop here and this would be extremely unfortunate for the Shannon Estuary Development Corporation.

There is nothing about the Seanad in the Bill.

I am only making a comparison. Situations may arise which would not be in the best interests of the corporation.

In the same section the Minister outlines the procedures for the local authority nominations. He refers to the quin-quennial elections but what would happen if, for example, the Minister for the Environment decided that local elections shall not be held for six or seven years? Would the five year rule still apply? If it was decided to have local authority elections after four years, would this section still apply and how is it proposed to accommodate the situations that may arise under the Local Government Acts?

Section 10 deals with disqualification from appointment. I think the section is reasonably all right but I am somewhat concerned with section 10 (3) (b):

Where a person is disqualified under this section by being adjudged bankrupt or making a composition or arrangement with his creditors, the disqualification shall cease, in the case of a bankruptcy, when the adjudication is annulled.

I can see the reasons the Minister has included this, but the reality is that an adjudication can be annulled in a case where the bankruptcy was not caused by misfortune and without misconduct on the person's part. There could be a contradiction of terms. I would be very wary of the first part of that subsection and I ask the Minister to reconsider it.

Section 10 (4) states:

A member of the Corporation shall hold office on such terms and conditions as the Minister may determine.

This is very questionable. The Minister could decide on the most extraordinary terms and conditions and if somebody was prepared to accept office under those conditions, he could accept office. The House should get a very clear explanation from the Minister what he and the Department consider the conditions that the Minister may determine.

Section 11 deals with the resignation and removal of members of the corporation. Section 11 (2) states that a member of the corporation may at any time be removed from office by the Minister if: "his removal from office appears to the Minister to be necessary for the effective performance of its functions by the Corporation." Would the Minister tell the House what he means? I think the wording is highly questionable, gives undue power to the Minister and does not lend itself to great stability within the corporation. In fact, I would go further, I think it is much too loose and that the Minister needs to be specific in this section. Let me suppose that in 25 years' time there is a Minister who suffers from idiosyncrasies and has certain hang-ups about individuals, he might decide for the most ridiculous reason possible that a person is no longer fit to be a member of the board because under section 11 (2) it appears to the Minister that he must be removed for the effective performance of the corporation. We need to be much more specific in this section. I notice that the Minister will fix the date of the first meeting and has set out the usual procedures to be followed. However, it is interesting to note that in section 12 (9) (b) dealing with disclosure of interest that a member:

shall, at the first meeting of the Corporation at which the proposed contract is discussed, disclose to the Corporation the fact of the interest and the nature thereof, and shall take no part in any deliberation or decision of the Corporation relating to the contract, and the disclosure shall be recorded in the minutes of the Corporation.

The fact that a member is not actually taking part in the deliberation or voting on the decision while still present means that the member can influence how other members will act at the meeting. I think the section needs to include words to the effect that the member having declared his or her interest must withdraw from the meeting because other members may be conditioned by his presence. This is essential because decisions will be made on major commercial issues or issues involving vested interests. Therefore, I think it is vital that the member who has a declared interest should withdraw from the meeting.

Section 14 deals with the transfer of staff from the Limerick Harbour Commissioners, the Foynes Harbour Trustees or the council of the urban district of Kilrush. I understand from the various interests involved that this section is totally unsatisfactory. The staff within these authorities are particularly concerned about their future under the proposed legislation. They are concerned about their existing terms of employment and how they will be incorporated in the new corporation. They are also concerned about redundancy payments, pension rights, and working conditions. It is very important to deal with this because the staff in the existing three bodies are appointed under different conditions. There is not a uniform local authority appointments scheme operating in relation to all. Is a corporation now to be formed with people employed under different terms of reference and conditions? The Minister should clarify this. It is a very grey area which is leading to great uncertainty and insecurity in the staff of those bodies. There is an onus on the Minister to clarify this at an early stage.

Debate adjourned.
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