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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 7 Mar 1989

Vol. 387 No. 10

Social Welfare Bill, 1989: Second Stage.

I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

In bringing this Bill before the House, I am taking another major step in the development of our social welfare support system.

The Bill provides for a significant additional allocation of resources to the less well off in our society at a time of economic difficulty. The Government have now provided almost £256 million extra over the last two years to those on low incomes. For a family with five children on long-term unemployment assistance, I have provided an increase of £29.10 in weekly income over two years. This is more than three times as much as was provided by the Coalition Government, £9.20, in their last two budgets.

Our policies represent a practical commitment to low-income families and children. We have ensured that resources are directed to those families with the greatest need. The cost of the extra provisions for children in this year's social welfare package is £42 million per annum. This includes the increases for children dependent on social welfare and for those whose parents are at work on low pay, both through the special childrelated tax exemption scheme and through the family income supplement.

This allocation of resources over the last two budgets is designed to tackle poverty as a priority. We are doing this not just through increases in social welfare payments, but also through the development of the system as a whole.

We have taken other important initiatives which extend and improve social welfare. This Bill provides for a new social assistance scheme for widowers and deserted husbands. We have abolished the lower rural rate of unemployment assistance by applying the higher urban rate throughout the country. We are extending occupational injuries cover to members of the Garda Síochána. We are imposing a liability on a deserting husband, or wife, to maintain the deserted wife, or husband, and children. I extended PRSI to the self-employed last April and the Government have now decided in principle to extend PRSI cover to public servants, following consultation with the public sector unions. We have radically streamlined and restructured social welfare payments. We have reduced the number of different rates for children from 36 to 12, and the number of rates of unemployment assistance from 17 to six, all within a two year time span. Other changes are being introduced without recourse to legislation. These include an option to use natural gas in the free schemes, allowing pensioners carry over unused units of electricity from one billing period to the next, and improvements in the free fuel scheme.

I will be examining other possible developments during the year and implementing them as appropriate. I am, for instance, considering the question of self-assessment for means test purposes. I have already introduced a limited form of self-assessment in unemployment assistance, through desk interviews. These have proved very successful. I am currently examining the question of extending self-assessment to other schemes.

I want a service for social welfare clients that is equal to the best the public or private sector can provide. I am satisfied that we are going the right way to achieve this. This Bill will further that development.

The Bill sets out to implement the significant social welfare improvements announced in this year's budget; to give effect to the new scheme for widowers and deserted husbands with dependent children; to abolish the lower rural rate of unemployment assistance; to extend the occupational injuries scheme to members of the Garda Síochána and to introduce a major innovation in the area of desertion. It makes deserting spouses liable for the maintenance of their families and enables the State to recover maintenance from them through the courts and offset it against its support for the deserted family. In addition, the Bill sets out to improve the effectiveness of the social welfare system through additional measures aimed at the elimination of fruad and abuse.

The general increase of 3 per cent in social welfare payments provided for in this Bill will more than maintain the position of all claimants, since the rate of inflation is just over 2 per cent. The special increases of 12 per cent for the longterm unemployed and 8 per cent for people on supplementary welfare allowance give those on the lowest payments a further substantial rise this year. These increases show the Government's continuing concern to improve the position of those dependent on social welfare. They more than meet our commitments in the Programme for National Recovery.

The main improvements in rates are : (1) a general increase of 3 per cent in widow's and old age pensions, unemployment and disability benefit and other weekly payments; (2) a 12 per cent increase in the personal rates of long-term unemployed on unemployment assistance and an 8 per cent increase for short-term unemployed and those on supplementary welfare allowance; (3) the abolition of the lower rural rate of unemployment assistance by increasing this rate, and consequently the rates of supplementary welfare allowance, to the higher urban rate. In future, therefore, the higher urban rate will apply throughout the country; (4) a streamlining of the rates of adult dependent allowance for unemployment payments to two rates — a long-term rate and a short-term rate — instead of five as at present; (5) an increase to a minimum of £10 per week in child dependent allowances payable with weekly social welfare payments. This mainly benefits families on unemployment assistance, supplementary welfare allowance and old age, non-contributory pension and (6) payment of the higher rate of monthly child benefit of £21.75 in respect of the fifth child and subsequent children.

From July next a family with three children and in receipt of unemployment benefit will receive an increase of £3.50 per week giving them a new rate of £105.80 per week. Pay-related benefit of up to £18.10 per week may also be payable bringing the total to £123.90. A couple on retirement or old age contributory pension will receive an increase of £3 per week giving them a new rate of £102.20 per week. A widow with four children and in receipt of a contributory pension will get an increase of £3.10 per week giving her a new rate of £110.90 per week.

This year the Government again approved a further special package aimed at the least well-off. We appreciate the special difficulties faced by the long-term unemployed and I have increased the long-term personal rate of unemployment assistance by a further £5 a week. I am aware that the assistance rate will now be higher than the basic benefit rate, but I am satisfied that this is necessary to help people cope with the extra needs where unemployment is of long duration.

The personal long-term rate of unemployment assistance will now be £47 per week. The personal rate for short-term unemployment assistance and supplementary welfare allowance will be £42 per week. A married couple bringing up three children on long-term unemployment assistance will get £8.20 extra per week bringing their total to £107. A similar family with five children will get an extra £11.40 per week bringing them to £127 per week. They will also get an increase in child benefit.

Taken together with the increases given last year, these payments have risen by almost 25 per cent since last July. They represent a very considerable improvement for those dependent on these social welfare payments.

In future there will only be two rates of adult dependant allowance for the unemployed, one long term and the other short term. In reducing the number of rates from five to two I am also giving special increases.

I am continuing to streamline the child dependant allowance rates as I did last year. A minimum rate of £10 a week for dependent children is being introduced. This represents a considerable increase for larger families and as a result, the number of rates of child dependant allowances is being reduced to 12 as against 36 rates up to last July.

The Bill also provides that the child dependant allowance for long-term recipients will be paid up to 19 years where the child continues in full-time education. The Government regard this as a first step towards eventually extending the period of payment of the child dependant allowances, where the child is in full-time education, to 21 years. This will be of particular benefit to families of the long-term unemployed, old age and invalidity pensioners. The provisions are contained in section 7 of the Bill.

Section 5 of the Bill provides that the higher rate of monthly child benefit of £21.75, which is currently payable in respect of the sixth child and subsequent children, will from next October be payable in respect of the fifth child and subsequent children. This measure is aimed at the special difficulties faced by larger families.

The Government are firmly committed to improving the position of families. We do this directly through the social welfare payments and through the family income supplement scheme for those at work on low incomes. Child benefit — children's allowances — on the other hand applies to all children and is paid directly to the mother. It has the further advantage that it does not create a disincentive to employment since it applies equally to the children of those at work and those on social welfare.

The one disadvantage of child benefit is that it is not possible at present to allocate extra increases to those who need them most through this system. We can go some way in this direction by giving extra increases to larger families as we did this year. To overcome this limitation in the child benefit scheme the Government decided to introduce the child-related tax exemption this year. This is a novel approach which directs additional resources to those with children where the parent is at work on low income. If in future we wish to use the child benefit scheme, not only for general across the board increases but also as a means of directing more resources to particular groups of children, then we will have to find a way to do this.

The extent to which we can do this will depend on our success in matching tax records with child benefit records so that we can identify the income level of recipients. To date we have matched approximately 70 per cent of our records and we are working on the balance. This matching exercise is very important for the future as it will enable us to use the child benefit system, not only to make payments to every mother, but also to direct additional resources to lower and middle income families.

A further element in the resources allocated to families is the family income supplement. In keeping with the Programme for National Recovery I arranged for a detailed study of the family income supplement scheme. The report is now to hand. It addresses the main policy issues in relation to the scheme, including the question of the rate of take-up.

In May 1988 there were 5,195 FIS cases in payment of which 3,799 were in the private sector and 1,396 in the public sector. In all 2,381 were labourers — 46 per cent — and a further 589 were agricultural or factory workers.

The report identified that the average supplement in February 1988 was £17.89. A main conclusion of the report is that the original estimates of take-up on the scheme were too high. A reassessment of the potential claimant pool revealed a maximum of 20,000 families who would be eligible. Allowing for take-up rates experienced internationally on such schemes, the report estimated that the maximum achievable number of clients is unlikely to be more than 12,000 families.

The following measures are recommended in the report: retention of the scheme subject to improvements in its structure with the aim of moving towards a family credit variant in due course; increases in the income limits for receipt of payment. The report does not recommend payment on the basis of net income; an increase in the maximum payments; additional payments to families with more than five children; and a reduction in the minimum hours of work required to benefit under the scheme. In the case of two parent families the hours worked by both spouses should be summed to obtain eligibility, improved distribution of information on FIS.

I am at present finalising my proposals for improvements in the scheme, which I will be announcing shortly. These will take into account the main recommendations of the report. The improvements will come into effect with the increases in rates of payment generally from July next. As already announced in the budget, there is an allocation of £1 million extra for the FIS scheme to cover these improvements. This 20 per cent increase will bring the total expenditure to over £6 million for 1989.

For some time, I have been very concerned at the difficulties faced by men on low incomes who are bringing up children on their own. While we have a number of different schemes for women in this situation there are no equivalent schemes for men. Widowers and deserted husbands with children, who are unable to take up paid employment due to their domestic responsibilities, find that the only social welfare payment available to them is supplementary welfare allowance — one of the lowest social welfare payments.

I have already announced my intention to correct this anomaly by providing a new social assistance scheme for widowers and deserted husbands. The legislative basis for the new scheme is contained in section 6 of the Bill. This section provides for payments to widowers and deserted husbands with dependent children on the same lines as the non-contributory widow's pension and deserted wife's allowance schemes.

Let me give some examples of how a widower will benefit under this new scheme. A widower with two children who is in receipt of supplementary welfare allowance currently gets £56.80 per week. Under the new scheme he will get £74.80, an increase of £18. Those with large families will gain even more. A man with five children would get £80.80 under the supplementary welfare allowance scheme. This will be increased to £115.30 under the new arrangements — a very substantial increase of £34.50 per week, This is in addition to the increase in child benefit for large families, which would increase the weekly gain to £36.05. It is an improvement that is long overdue. I estimate that 5,500 men will benefit from the new schemes.

The introduction of these new schemes also represents a major step in bringing about equality of treatment between men and women in this whole area.

I also consider that there is scope for rationalisation in this whole area. With the introduction of these new schemes there will now be six separate social assistance schemes providing income support to lone parents, and these schemes will also differentiate between men and women. Accordingly, my Department are examining the possibility of replacing these schemes by one lone parent allowance scheme which would apply to parents, whether male or female, who are bringing up children on their own. In this context, the position of lone parents who are separated or of fathers who are unmarried or who have been divorced in another jurisdiction and who may not come within the scope of the existing schemes is being examined. Complex legislative changes will be required to provide for such a scheme, but I hope to be in a position to bring forward proposals in the matter later in the year. In relation to the PRSI ceiling for employers, as is customary, the earnings ceiling up to which social insurance contributions are payable will be raised.

Section 8 provides for the increase in the ceiling for employees and employers and section 9 provides for the increase in respect of the self-employed. As a result of these increases from 6 April 1989 employees and the self-employed will pay PRSI contributions in resepct of earnings up to £16,700 instead of £16,200 at present. Employers will continue to pay contributions up to a ceiling of £18,000 in respect of employees who have these higher earnings. The extra cost to employers in 1989 will be £4 million. At the same time employers will save an estimated £7.5 million in 1989 as a result of the reduction in their contribution to the redundancy fund.

Irish employers pay one of the lowest rates of PRSI in the European Community. In the United Kingdom, there is no ceiling for employers in respect of which contributions are payable. The higher ceiling will reduce the burden on the general taxpayer of maintaining the Social Insurance Fund. In relation to pay-related benefit section 10 of the Bill provides for an increase from £66 to £69 in the amount of weekly earnings disregarded in calculating the rate of pay-related benefit. Since the introduction of the pay-related benefit scheme in April 1974, a proportion of reckonable earnings has always been disregarded in calculating the amount of pay-related benefit payable in addition to flat rate benefits. The purpose of the disregard is to ensure that the amount of personal flat rate benefit is taken into account in determining the amount of the pay-related element. The change will effect new claims from 3 April.

In relation to the increase in the rural rate of unemployment assistance, section 11 of the Bill provides that the rural rate of unemployment assistance will be raised to the higher rate applying in urban areas. As Deputies will be aware, this differential dates back to 1934 when the unemployment assistance schemes was introduced. Clearly, however, such a differential is now outmoded. People in rural Ireland face the same cost of living as urban dwellers and furthermore the present situation has led to serious anomalies in that many areas now accepted as urban are outside the urban classification. Claimants in parts of Tallaght, Blanchardstown, Clondalkin, Dún Laoghaire and Lucan are paid at the rural rate. Similar difficulties arise in other areas such as Cork, Limerick, Dundalk, Drogheda, Ballina and many other towns.

As part of the budget I undertook to review the position and the Government accepted my recommendation that the only logical approach was to abolish the rural rate. The supplementary welfare rate of payment which was the same as the short term rural rate, irrespective of where the claimant lived, will also be increased to the short term urban rate. The effect of this measure will be to give a total weekly increase of £5.70 to a couple on supplementary welfare allowance.

When I took up office there were 17 rates of payment in unemployment assistance alone. In just two years I have cut these down to six rates — a personal rate and an adult dependant rate for short term and for long term unemployment assistance and two child dependant rates. This is a substantial reform of the social welfare code by any measure.

The break-up of marriage through desertion is an increasing problem in our society today. In 1978 there were 5,237 women in receipt of deserted wife's benefit or allowance. This grew to 13,617 for 1988. This represents an increase of 8,380 or 160 per cent in a ten year period. Expenditure has shown a corresponding increase rising from £5.6 million in 1978 to £52 million in 1988. The State has always shown concern for deserted wives and will continue to do so. They are paid at the same rate as widows.

Except in the case of supplementary welfare, no provision has been made up to now to require a deserting spouse to contribute towards the payments being made under the social welfare code for the maintenance of his or her family. In the case of social welfare payments to the deserted spouse, responsibility for seeking income support from their spouse has been left to the claimant. Entitlement to the payments is conditional on the claimant making and continuing to make reasonable efforts to obtain such support. The only sanction my Department had, in cases where they were not satisfied with those efforts, was to reject the claim or to withdraw payment in cases where it was already in payment.

My Department also had to have regard to the personal trauma being experienced by the family and their need for time to adjust to the situation created by the departure of the other spouse and to try to build a new life. Pressure on the spouse to seek maintenance adds to these problems. It could also be counterproductive in that it could serve to reduce any possibility that might remain for reconciliation.

However, it is clear that too many spouses are just walking away from their responsibilities towards their families and leaving it to the taxpayer — through the State — to pick up the burden. This is not good enough. What we are setting out to do through this Bill is to impose a liability on a husband to maintain his wife and family and, likewise, to impose the same liability on a wife to maintain her husband and family. The new measures proposed in this Bill are designed to ensure that, as far as possible, adequate contributions are forthcoming from the deserting spouse.

This Bill provides that the competent authority — either the Minister for Social Welfare or a health board — can seek a maintenance order against a person who fails to maintain their family, and the District Court shall order that person to pay the maintenance to the competent authority. Where the persons concerned or their employers fail or refuse to supply social welfare officers, or the health boards as the case may be, with any information or documents required for the purposes of any investigation related to the award of benefits or allowances under these schemes, they shall be guilty of an offence and subject on conviction to substantial fines. In this way, the State can recoup some of the cost of supporting the deserted family. Where the maintenance is paid to a deserted spouse, that person, if receiving an allowance from my Department or from the health board by way of supplementary welfare allowance, shall be liable to transfer the maintenance to the competent authority.

A practice has grown up in the courts, when dealing with maintenance orders, to limit maintenance to a topping up of the payments received from social welfare. The effect of this is to cause the State to bear the responsibility of supporting the family, rather than placing that responsibility firmly and fairly on the shoulders of the deserting spouse. Section 13 of the Bill provides for amendments to the Family Law (Maintenance of Spouses and Children) Act, 1976, to exclude social welfare payments from the benefits that a court can take into account in determining maintenance orders.

Special provision has been made to protect the income position of claimants who are currently receiving payments under the social welfare code as deserted wives. Those claimants will not be required to transfer any payments they are or will be receiving on foot of maintenance orders obtained prior to the coming into force of these provisions. Where those claimants obtain maintenance orders after the date of commencement of these provisions, only the amount of payments in excess of amounts awarded under the original orders will be transferable by them.

This new section on liability to maintain contains a clear, comprehensive and coherent set of provisions. They will enable my Department or the appropriate health board to obtain contributions from deserting spouses. The contributions obtained will help to ease the burden on PRSI contributors and taxpayers generally of financing these payments.

At present a person who has exhausted entitlement to unemplyment benefit can requalify for benefit after having worked and paid contributions for 13 weeks. This proved to be a significant incentive for people to take up insurable employment of short duration. While entitled to or in receipt of unemployment benefit a person was not entitled to receive unemployment assistance. This does not pose any problem where the rate of benefit exceeds the rate of assistance. However, following the improvements I have already announced, the rate of unemployment assistance is now higher than the rate of unemployment benefit, and so there could be a disincentive to an unemployed person to take up employment of short duration. Because of this, section 14 of the Bill provides power to enable me, by regulation, subject to the sanction of the Minister for Finance, to allow an unemployed person the option of claiming either unemployment benefit or unemployment assistance, whichever is the more favourable. This reflects my determination to ensure that the social welfare system is as flexible and responsive as possible to the needs of today.

Deputies will be aware that in recent years I have promoted a number of initiatives to increase flexibility in the unemployment payments system, and facilitate the unemployed in their efforts to find a foothold in the jobs market. These initiatives cover facilities to pursue educational courses, to take up part-time work, and to engage in voluntary work of benefit to the community.

I introduced the part-time education initiative to encourage the unemployed to exploit the considerable amount of flexibility in the unemployment payments system, which would allow participation in part-time courses without infringing the availability for work criteria. The initiative takes the form of guidelines issued to deciding officers to assist them in the determination of entitlement to unemployment payments in cases where the participant wishes to engage in education courses.

Section 15 of the Bill provides for the exemption of fostering allowances from the assessment of means for unemployment assistance, old age and widow's pensions and supplementary welfare allowance schemes. Fostering allowances are payable under section 55 of the Health Act, 1953.

Current social welfare legislation in relation to the assessment of means requires that all cash income which the claimant may reasonably expect to receive shall be taken into account. Certain cash payments are, however, excluded from this assessment, for example, income from charitable organisations, benevolent societies and certain health board payments. The Bill proposes to add fostering allowances to the list of exempted payments.

The health boards have experienced considerable difficulties in recruiting foster parents in recent years. As Deputies are aware, there has been a move away from residential care and efforts are being made to place more children in foster homes where they can enjoy the benefits of normal family life. The health boards regard the fostering allowance, currently £34.50 per week, as a payment for the maintenance of the child. The fact that it is payable irrespective of the foster parents' circumstances allows the financial circumstances of potential foster parents to be disregarded when their suitability as foster parents is being considered. By excluding the assessment of fostering allowances from the social welfare means test, this section removes what could be seen as a disincentive to potential foster parents. I am sure Deputies will be supportive of this very worth-while measure.

Under the Social Welfare (Consolidation) Act, 1981, regulations have been made which allow the payment of the allowances for adult and child dependants to be made directly to the spouse of a claimant, in cases where the claimant does not provide the spouse with sufficient money for ordinary household expenditure. The claimant, usually the husband, continues to receive the personal rate. This arises where there are problems such as gambling, alcoholism or drug addiction. Women in receipt of separate payments are in a difficult financial position. The income which they receive consists of increases for dependants only and is often insufficient to meet their needs and those of their children.

Section 16 of the Bill is designed to remove the restriction whereby only the dependant's element of a payment may be paid direct to the spouse in such cases. The section provides that regulations may allow such amount of the social welfare payment as is reasonable in the circumstances to be paid direct to the spouse. The claimant will be paid at least the value of the adult dependant allowance. I am sure this new provision will be welcomed by those who are currently surviving on separate payments.

With regard to insurability of sub-postmasters, section 17 of the Bill is designed to confirm the current insurability of sub-postmasters as employees, by specifically including such employment in the list of insurable employments contained in Part I of the First Schedule to the Social Welfare (Consolidation) Act, 1981.

Arising from a recent High Court judgment, it was considered that there was a possibility that subpostmasters might be regarded as being under a contract for service as distinct from a contract of service. In that case they would no longer be insurable as employees. This provision is intended to safeguard their current position under the Social Welfare Acts.

I am providing in this Bill for the extension of occupational injuries benefits to members of An Garda Síochána. Section 18 of the Bill provides the means for including gardaí in the occupational injuries scheme. At present the Garda have no entitlements under this scheme. In the case of malicious injuries or death, a Garda or his representatives may apply for compensation under the Garda Síochána (Compensation) Acts. However, other injuries received or diseases contracted accidentally in the course of duty are not covered by this legislation. It is now proposed to fill this gap in their coverage by bringing gardaí within the scope of the occupational injuries scheme. Gardaí will be covered on the same basis as other civil servants. They will be entitled to disablement benefit starting 26 weeks after the occupational accident occurs or the disease is contracted. They will also be covered for survivors' benefits.

It is proposed that the rate of disablement benefit for gardaí will be half the ordinary rate, in line with civil servants entitlements, although full adult and child dependant increases will be payable. At present, if a garda is injured while on duty or in the course of duty, he may receive full salary for the duration of absence caused by that injury.

Survivors' benefits for which members of the Garda will be covered include widow's pension, dependent widower's pension or gratuity, orphan's pension, dependent parent's pension and funeral grant. A reduced rate of occupational injuries contribution will be paid on behalf of the Garda in line with the limited benefits for which they will be covered.

The section also provides that any benefits payable to the gardaí or their survivors under the scheme will be taken into account in the assessment of damages under the Garda Síochána (Compensation) Acts. This is in line with similar arranagements in assessing damages for the purposes of the Civil Liability (Amendment) Act, 1964.

The details of coverage and the contributions payable will be set out in regulations following this legislation. Coverage under the occupational injuries scheme will represent a considerable improvement in their employment conditions for the Garda. I am sure that Deputies will support me in acknowledging the good work done by An Garda Síochána and I am sure that this measure will have the support of the House.

Over the past two years I have placed great emphasis on the effective managment of the resources devoted to social welfare. As a result, I have put in place a range of measures to eliminate fraud and control abuse of our schemes. Expenditure on social welfare is one of the highest spending areas of Government activity and it is vital that money is paid out only to those who are entitled to receive it. I intend to continue to pursue these measures vigorously and improve them as the need arises. Consequently, there are a number of measures in this Bill aimed at improving the effectivenesss of the various measures I have brought in.

With regard to sub-contractors from the start of this year, employers in the construction, contract cleaning, forestry and security industries are required to notify my Department when they take on new employees. So far, from the preliminary returns for January, it appears that well over 500 employees have been notified to my Department.

I am aware from discussions with the trade unions and from other sources that there has been an increasing recourse to the employment of sub-contractors in these industries. It is also clear from investigations carried out by my Department that many sub-contractors are not fulfilling their responsibilities in terms of tax and PRSI. Accordingly, I am amending the legislation to provide for the notification to me by any employer, in the designated industries, of the employment by them or any sub-contractor. In addition, each sub-contactor will also have to notify me of any person engaged by him or her or working with him or her. This will greatly assist in the control of those "cowboy" operators who set out to cheat the taxpayer and their competitors.

On the question of court proceedings, section 20 provides that, in any proceedings for an offence under the Social Welfare Acts, a certificate, signed by an officer and certifying facts recorded on computer or on microfilm will, in the absence of the original document, be prima facie evidence of the facts so certified. This provision is required because of the increasing extent to which records of the Department are held on computer and microfilm instead of on paper. The provision also extends to organisations with which the Department conduct their business. For example, An Post proposes to microfilm cashed social welfare pension orders.

Section 21 provides that records relating to earnings and periods of employment maintained by an employer shall be regarded as prima facie evidence of these matters. This is intended to simplify the current arrangements whereby, in cases involving large companies, a number of company staff would be required to give evidence to prove that a person was, in fact, employed in a particular period and that wages were paid to him in respect of such employment.

Section 22 provides that, where an employer who colludes with an employee in fraudulently obtaining any social welfare payment is convicted of certain offences, that employer will be liable for the repayment on demand, as a civil debt, of the amount irregularly received by the employee as a result of that collusion, while in his employment.

Under the legislation enacted last year relating to self-employed contributors, a self-employed person was required to have discharged his full liability before he could be regarded as having paid his PRSI contribution. Because of the way the tax system works, this requirement for full discharge is giving rise to serious problems as tax assessments are reviewed and revised. The provisions allow contributions which have not been paid to be treated as having been paid, in certain circumstances.

The Bill provides for substantial improvements for the proposed pre-retirement allowance scheme. The legislative basis for this scheme was contained in last year's Social Welfare Act and regulations are required to implement it. Following the amendments in this Bill, I propose to make regulations providing for the new improved scheme as soon as the administrative arrangements are in place.

The pre-retirement allowance scheme is intended to provide more flexible arrangements for unemployed people in the over-60 age group, many of whom regard themselves as semi-retired and not really members of the labour force. At present, these people are required to sign on each week at their local office, where they receive their cash payments. The new scheme will relieve certain persons of the need to attend the local office, while at the same time providing them with alternative arrangements for receiving their basic entitlements. It is intended that payment will be made by way of orders cashable at post offices.

Under the 1988 legislation, to be eligible for the scheme a person must: have attained the specified age; have been in receipt of unemployment payments for at least 390 days; satisfy a means test; be otherwise entitled to unemployment assistance at the maximum rate.

The main effect of the amendments included in this Bill is to remove the requirement that an applicant be otherwise entitled to unemployment assistance. This will enable the allowance to continue to be paid to retired persons who, for example, fall ill and would, therefore, not fulfil the conditions for unemployment assistance. The Bill also provides for the inclusion of the pre-retirement allowance as a separate allowance in the list of social assistance payments contained in the Fourth Schedule to the Act. This will give greater flexibility in regard to determining reduced rates of allowance as the rates will no longer be tied to the rates of unemployment assistance.

On pro-rata pensions, section 30 of the Social Welfare Act, 1988, provided powers to make regulations giving entitlement to pensions to certain persons who came back into insurance on the abolition of the earnings limit for liability for social insurance contributions in April, 1974. The provision was intended to cater for those who, having paid a contribution covering them for old age contributory pension, failed to qualify for a pension because of gaps in their insurance record prior to 1974.

These gaps occurred because, prior to April 1974, social insurance coverage for non-manual workers only applied if their earnings were below a certain limit. This limit was increased from time to time and, as a result, some persons found themselves in and out of insurance, thus causing gaps in their insurance records. To qualify for an old age (contributory) pension, a minimum yearly average of 20 contributions is required over a person's working life. Some people with gaps in their insurance record before 1974 could not achieve this minimum average and so failed to qualify for pensions.

Many Deputies will be familiar with this problem. It was always considered to be particularly inequitable because employees who became compulsorily insured for the first time in April 1974 were able to build up an entitlement to a minimum old age contributory pension after a relatively short number of years. Others, with a similar record of insurance after 1974, failed to get a pension because of the effect that the pre-1974 gaps had on their yearly average of contributions.

It has since emerged that the enabling legislation and regulations made under it in 1988 gave entitlement to pro rata pensions to categories of insured persons other than those for whom they were intended. The wording of the legislation also gave entitlement to persons who came back into insurance in 1974, but at a modified rate which did not include cover for old age (contributory) pension. Persons in this situation are part of what is known as the “mixed insurance” category and there are particular problems associated with their situation. The problems of “mixed insurance” and its effects on pension entitlements are being examined at present by the National Pensions Board as part of their review of State, semi-State and private occupational arrangements.

Section 25 is intended to remedy the defect in the primary legislation. The effect of the amendment is to confirm that, under any regulations made, entitlement to pensions will be confined to those affected by the insurable limit as originally intended: persons who again became compulsorily insured at the full rate of contribution in April 1974 following the abolition of the insurable limit. Sections 26 and 27 are designed to remedy potential defects identified in existing legislation and ensure that the provisions covered endure and are correct.

Since the Government took office two years ago, we have introduced some of the most far-reaching improvements in the social welfare system for many years. We identified problems and anomalies which were the cause of hardship to those relying on our schemes and took steps to solve them. At the same time, I have concentrated resources on ensuring that the system is managed effectively and that fraud and abuse are controlled. We have succeeded in this and the improvements outlined in this Bill have been facilitated by better control of social welfare expenditure.

The Bill, therefore, implements the measures we introduced in the budget and directs additional resources to those on the lowest incomes. That was the policy we adopted last year and which we are continuing this year. As a result, those on long term unemployment assistance over the two years will have received an increase of almost 25 per cent in the period and the Government have allocated almost £256 million to those on social welfare. This is a very substantial transfer of resources and a clear sign of the Government's determination to tackle the problems faced by those on low incomes, particularly those dependent on social welfare.

I commend this Bill to the House.

For any Government the Social Welfare Bill represents their flagship in any year in the battle against poverty. Using that analogy for 1989 the Bill resembles a leaky rowing boat instead of a sleek, carefully planned designer vessel like the round-the-world yacht NCB Ireland.

The Bill is presented without any planning for or vision and foresight into the need to change our systems to encourage job creation. It is glibly presented as if there was no unemployment crisis and ignores the measures which can be taken within the social welfare system to create jobs. The Bill is unexceptional and of little account.

My main criticism of the Bill is that it will have no appreciable impact on the cause or the effects of poverty. The Government have totally failed to capitalise on the consensus that exists in this House in favour of the necessary reforms that will lead to jobs being created and an end to the haemorrhage of emigration which is draining the lifeblood from this country.

The main cause of poverty is lack of jobs leading to huge unemployment and emigration at a level unprecedented in recent times. The central issue on which every policy instrument has to be judged is its effect on jobs. On that basis the Bill scores zero and must be categorised as another missed opportunity where headway might have been made — but was not — in the battle against unemployment and the poverty resulting from it.

There are major structural defects in aspects of our social welfare system which have disemployment effects and which act as a positive disincentive to job creation. Our aim and object must be a system which does the reverse, which contributes to job creation. The social welfare system — and indeed every system introduced or maintained by the State — should be trawled from top to bottom to identify and isolate those aspects which discourage employment and the necessary reform to change them must be introduced; otherwise we will have to accept continuing huge unemployment levels. Obviously this has not been done in relation to this Bill. This lack of planning is also evident in many of the hastily conceived measures announced by the Minister over the past two years which lend support to the view that no serious reform of the system can be expected under the present Administration.

Therefore, more in hope than in expectation, I will identify specific examples in the system which contribute to unemployment and impede job creation. I am asking the Minister to seriously consider proposals for amendments which will root out those aspects of the system which are discouraging jobs. In relation to those directly affected by the social welfare system, the Commission on Social Welfare some years ago mapped out the highway to be established if we are to have an equitable solution. The ESRI-Combat Poverty report established the extent of poverty at different levels in society and focused particular attention on the kind of households affected.

The three main groups vulnerable to poverty were identified as (1) homes headed by the unemployed, (2) those with large families and (3) small farmer households. In addition, those in low paid jobs, female single parents and the sick and disabled were identified as being highly at risk of poverty. Despite the claims of the Minister, it is clear that the provisions of this Bill will do very little to improve the abysmally low standard of living of those so identified. The Social Welfare Bill, 1989, will ensure that those at the bottom of the trough will stay there.

This raises the broader issue of the whole spectrum of economic and social policies of the Government in so far as they have been clearly defined. We do not have a very clear definition of their objectives and we most certainly do not have specific proposals to achieve the job targets which have been vaguely defined. It is now clear that the effect of Government policy to date has been to make those at the upper end of the scale richer while those at the bottom of the pile are staying there. They are frustrated, alienated and dispossessed. They are condemned to live — more correctly to exist — on the margins of society. Clearly, the benefits of sacrifice and fiscal adjustment have not reached or — in the immortal words of a former Taoiseach — trickled down to the poor and marginalised.

There are impressive figures on exports, balance of trade, the balance of payments and other economic and financial indicators and statistics. These are of no consolation to the huge number of people seemingly permanently wedged on the dole. On the other hand, those figures bring boundless satisfaction to the rich and powerful, the haves of our society who now have a lot more. I have no basic objection to the accumulation of wealth by the industrious and energetic and by those in a position of power and influence. In many ways the more we have in that category the better for the country but where the privileged few are the main and perhaps the only beneficiaries of Government policy it is time to question the thrust and direction of such policy and to seek a redirection focusing on the needs of the have nots, principally, the unemployed and the low paid.

The policies of the Government have made no impact on the root cause of poverty, which is unemployment. They have failed utterly to devise policies and reforms which would lead to job creation. They have shirked the task of reforming and redirecting our tax and welfare systems so as to provide incentives to work, to employ and be employed. The OECD have reported that Ireland has the taxation and social welfare systems most biased against labour in all of the OECD countries. How have the Government reacted to this appalling statistic? Last week in a radio interview at the conclusion of the Fianna Fáil Ard Fheis the Taoiseach stated that he found it difficult to accept the percentage of our people found by the ESRI to be living on the poverty line. He held out no hope for the young and not so young trying to cope with the consequences of unemployment and other social problems. In fact his offhand response to the social problems in our society was "all we can do is keep on trying to solve them".

That kind of "God help us" approach is all right as a rhetorical aspiration but where is the prescription for a solution? Where are the jobs going to be created? When are we going to see changes in our tax system and in our social welfare system which we are discussing today which would lead to the creation of jobs? When are we going to see bold initiatives to tackle our unemployment rate of almost 20 per cent?

These questions hardly cross the Taoiseach's mind or, apparently, the minds of his Ministers. Basking in the adultation of the rich the Taoiseach has surrounded himself with an imperial guard of power, wealth and influence — the glitterati of our society. Obviously he is being led by them to the extent that those below the salt and those who have no salt at all are completely excluded from his thinking. While the barons of industry and the captains of commerce pay homage at the court of Kinsealy, the ordinary Joe Soap is being strangled by the PAYE system or sweating it out on the dole queue. His lot will not be improved by policies dictated by the politburo of millionaires.

The dangers of division in our society can be very clearly seen. We should learn from the experience of other countries who have allowed this approach to develop. The Marcos régime in the Philippines collapsed under its own weight when the people rejected the corruption resulting from policies which only favoured the powerful and the wealthy. We should not tolerate that kind of divided society in our country. The warning signals are already there and cannot be ignored.

Proper planning is needed if the kind of reforms required are to be successfully implemented. Apart from the lack of any serious intent to introduce the reforms needed, the record of the Government in regard to the careful planning of any change is outrageously bad. There are so many examples of this in many areas. Let me mention a few outside of the social welfare area. There was the U-turn in respect of the AFT-ACOT merger followed shortly afterwards by the announcement of the hastily conceived, hopelessly planned new farm body with disastrous consequences for our farmers. In recent weeks Fóir Teoranta fell victim to the same ill-thought out proposals. The Government should know that a shoot-from-the-lip approach is no substitute for detailed planning.

In the area of social welfare a similar approach has been adopted. A number of schemes which had not been properly and clearly thought out were announced, such as the free fuel scheme, an amalgamation of two schemes, which ended up with more anomalies than had existed previously, with the result that in many cases those with less income and worse off than those entitled to receive it were not able to benefit under the scheme. If our objective is fairness, justice and equity this approach will not do. The educational opportunities scheme was announced in a great fanfare by the Minister for Social Welfare last year but now he will not even answer a Dáil question about the non-operation of the scheme, preferring to pass the buck to the Minister for Education.

It was announced on the publication of the Estimates that there would be an increase in employers' payroll taxes, to an income limit of £20,000 per employee. Again, this had not been thought through and the consequences this would have for employment were not fully considered and only under the most extreme pressure was this figure rolled back to £18,000. There was an announcement in relation to child benefit in the budget. I am not sure what detailed planning went into it but there was a suggestion in one of the newspapers that it arose following a rashers and eggs discussion at breakfast time between the Minister for Finance and his wife. It is very clear that no thought was put into what the consequences would be of the step proposed in the Budget Statement. Thereafter there was a rolling back, a watering down and an amendment by the Taoiseach and his Ministers, and today the Minister for Social Welfare has implied that payments from now on will be made to every mother. I suggest that that is not the way to go about introducing any change or to plan any programme for the betterment of this country.

We then come to pro rata pensions and again the Minister touched on these in his speech today. It is clear that the provisions as originally announced and legislation for extended entitlement to those who it was intended would not benefit. This is another example of bad planning and follow-through. Provision was made in the 1988 Act for the pre-retirement scheme but it is now proposed to amend this scheme in the 1989 Bill without the scheme ever having become operational. This is yet another example of a scheme not being properly thought out. The Minister made various announcements of major changes. In July 1987 he made an announcement that he intended to transfer the responsibility for paying the first 13 weeks of disability benefit to employers. He also was able to quantify the saving that was to result from this dramatic change — £20 million a year. What happened? Nothing. The Minister obviously at the time he made this grand announcement was not aware it took about two years preparation in the UK before such a change was implemented. It is not good enough that this shoot-from-the-lip approach should have been adopted in relation to such a serious matter or, indeed, any other matter.

While proposals for change to remove anomalies and to respond to the needs of the poorest in our society are necessary, the real priority for the Government and the Minister in relation to social welfare is the need to trawl the entire system and isolate those aspects which are causing unemployment or acting as a disincentive to job creation. In the light of the various examples I have quoted I am not so sure this Government are capable of doing that. They are capable of planning the necessary changes, but I want to use the opportunity here in the debate on this Bill to mention some positive proposals for consideration, all with a focus on jobs.

The first relates to the establishment of a single means test based on net income. How often have we heard from people on the dole, particularly those with families, the words, "I cannot afford to take the job"? That arises because there are no tax allowances for children in the income tax system and because of the changes that will be made in relation to the medical card assessed on gross income and the changes in the costs which may arise in relation to the differential rent system and a whole range of areas. Surely one of the most serious and positive steps that could be taken towards a graduated entitlement to various benefits applicable to those on employment and those on social welfare would be the introduction of a single means test based on net income. I believe the establishment of such a system would permit a graduated response to different levels of need whether for the employed or the unemployed. It would lead to the removal of distortions, poverty traps and a major disincentive to employment.

Secondly, the Minister should have had the courage to tackle social insurance contributions. With the payments being made by the employers, it is very clear that the bias is totally in favour of capital intensive employment as opposed to labour intensive employment. The more employees you have, the more you pay. In other countries, particularly those with unemployment problems, a variety of different approaches have been tried. Nothing has been tried here. I suggest to the Minister that at the very minimum we should have a modulation of the rate of contribution in respect of certain labour intensive industries. I am thinking in particular of the clothing sector as one example. To encourage employment, the rate payable in respect of certain labour intensive sectors should be low enough and thus be an incentive to the employer to take on more employees.

The other side of the social insurance contribution is the payment being made by the employee. Here again is a very strong case for change. That change should be focused on exempting a portion at the lower end of the salary scale. That could be done if the Minister took power to vary the rate and the upper income limit in respect of which the contributions are payable. It would certainly provide an incentive to those who might be offered relatively low paid employment.

We come to the long-term unemployed, many of whom have virtually given up hope of work. I suggest that the new approach be tried of exemption from payment of social insurance contributions for a defined period. It need not be very long — perhaps the first 12 months or up to April of the following year, the end of the contribution year — to exempt somebody in receipt of long-term unemployment from all social insurance contributions and all such payments payable in respect of an unemployed contributor who immediately prior to taking up employment had been in receipt of unemployment assistance or benefit for the usual period which for long-term unemployment is 390 days.

A further proposal I have to make relates to the low paid and their non-entitlement, non-access to supplementary welfare. This is of major importance in relation to rent supplements. I suggest it would be an important incentive measure if we removed the provision of section 202 of the Principal Act which excludes those in full-time employment from access to supplementary welfare. That, in many instances, could be the final bridge to enable those on social welfare to take up employment, particularly if the only employment available is of a relatively low paid nature.

A further suggestion relates to the pre-retirement allowance. Even though the Minister is introducing a minor amendment in the present Bill, he should go further. The scheme when it becomes operational should be amended and extended to those of 55 years and over. One important further addition should be made. Those who accept the pre-retirement allowance should be allowed some dignity. An occasional bit of work would be good for them, and provision should be made to allow that. I suggest to the Minister that any means derived from employment of less than 18 hours per week would not be assessable as against the pre-retirement allowance.

Another area in relation to jobs is the family income supplement. Let me record my major disappointment that the report to which the Minister refers in his speech has not been made available to me despite requests made in this House and in writing to the Minister. It is a rather short-sighted policy on his part that where reports of this kind are available they are not furnished to those members of the Opposition who have sufficient interest to request them.

The Deputy does not mind if they go to the Government first? I gave a summary of the recommendations which the Deputy asked for.

Not so. I asked for the report because there are some recommendations here and I am not sure of the terms of reference in the report or the basis on which these recommendations are made. It seems that a major overhaul of the FIS is necessary. In the context of the £1 million made available by the Minister in the current year we are confined to quite minor changes and, of course, there is no possibility of the kind of major overhaul that would result from changing the system from gross pay to net pay. That would involve a complete overhaul of the system which would not be possible within the context of the miserable £1 million which the Minister has allocated towards this important instrument which, if developed, could lead to a considerable number of jobs. The Minister should have power to change that system. He may not have the money immediately but at least he should put the full report before us and let us discuss the possibility of a new type of family income supplement based on net income.

My understanding is that in every country in Europe where there is a family income supplement it is based on net income. I cannot accept the few lines in the Minister's speech as a basis on which to debate fully the report which the Minister has guarded so jealously and declined to make available to me. There should be a change to payment based on net income. I accept the Minister's point that there should be an additional payment for families with more than five children. That minor change costing £300,000 should, of course, be made. I am worried that the Minister will tinker with the present system, that there will be very little impact on unemployment as a consequence and that the major overhaul which should be made will be shelved.

These are just some of the areas which should be touched upon in regard to removing disincentives to employment in the social welfare system. The proposals I have mentioned have a focus on jobs and point the way to the kind of major overhaul needed to encourage job creation. Let the Minister take his courage in his hands and, if necessary, have a major trawl done within the Department to isolate the issues leading to unemployment. He will have the support of this House in any reasonable proposal which is clearly and definitely focused on job creation. I am putting forward these proposals in a non-confrontational way. It is imperative for us all to see where our system is wrong when it comes to jobs. This Bill is a total failure in that it evades the point.

There are some other changes which the Minister should seriously consider, including a few pet anomalies of mine which he might consider amending the Bill to cover. It is very unfair that middle-aged people should find that their unemployment assistance is reduced by the benefit in privilege provision when they are residing with relatives. It was pointed out by the Commission on Social Welfare that there is some justification for this provision where a young person is living with parents. There is a notional assessment in relation to living at home. It is, however, altogether ridiculous that a person in the forties living perhaps on the charity of a brother or cousin should find that unemployment assistance is reduced as a consequence. I strongly appeal to the Minister to adopt the proposals of the Commission on Social Welfare and exclude the benefit deemed to arise from living at home for those over the age of 25.

I also feel strongly about payment of the prescribed relative allowance and I cannot understand why it is not paid to the person providing care for an elderly relative. The first step should be to pay it direct to the carer, then as resources permit to increase the amount of money payable, which should be at least on the supplementary welfare level, and thereafter to extend it to other categories who are caring for the sick and disabled. It was ironic that a lady in receipt of a contributory old age pension recently attended my clinic bearing a tax demand from the Inspector of Taxes based on the amount of the prescribed relative allowance she was getting. I hope it is a mistake and I have raised the case with the Minister for Finance. If it is not a mistake, it is adding insult to injury in respect of this allowance.

My party have circulated a Bill on the right to privacy. The humiliation suffered by many people going to social welfare and other public offices and being expected to disclose their personal affairs in public must be avoided, if at all possible. A minimum degree of privacy should be afforded to applicants and others who have occasion to go to such public offices.

I mentioned earlier the position of children. While I am glad to see the Minister rolling back even further on the question of child benefit, the whole question of support from the State in relation to children needs to be looked at in greater detail. The position of families is affected not just by child benefit. There is also the matter of child dependant allowances. In the general taxation system we have no income tax allowances in respect of children. In respect of the residential property tax, the reduction which was available for children has now gone because the child tax allowance has been removed. I accept that it is not a very serious point, but is just another part of a rather complex cocktail. Taking into account the changes that should be made in the family income supplement, the need to introduce a new payment such as a back to school payment and so on, I suggest that there should be a special examination of how we support children today. A body such as the Combat Poverty Agency have the expertise and resources to carry out such a complex examination and I should like to ask the Minister to make an official request to them to carry it out.

I am disappointed that more progress has not been made towards simplifying the system. I would like to see, as far as possible, the abolition of the differentials in all child dependent allowances under the social welfare code. I would like to see the differential in relation to dependent spouse allowances being removed. The way forward is to increase the allowances for those at the bottom of the scale. We must simplify the system in the shortest possible time.

I should like to refer to another issue the Minister should take on board. The Commission on Social Welfare recommended some years ago that all income support schemes of the State be transferred to the Department of Social Welfare. They were referring, in particular, to the disabled person's maintenance allowance which is operated by the Department of Health and the health boards. They also recommended that all treatment benefits be transferred from the Department of Social Welfare to the Department of Health but that has not been done. We now have the dispute between the Minister for Social Welfare and the Irish Dental Association which has all the signs of becoming more bitter and prolonged. The Minister should stand back from that dispute and, as part of the solution, implement the recommendation of the Commission on Social Welfare in regard to dental services.

The Minister should look at the position of old age pensioners and those in receipt of blind pensions because it is very unfair for those in receipt of non-contributory pensions to be assessed at a rate of 10 per cent on the few pounds they have in the bank or elsewhere — it is known down the country as funeral money. Those people, despite the fact that they receive about 3 per cent interest on their deposits, are assessed for means purposes at a flat artificial rate of 10 per cent. It is time to change that and I urge the Minister to do so. The Minister should look at the pro rata pension system which he is now amending in order to correct a mistake that was made last year. However, those on mixed insurance are left high and dry. Some people are forced to make contributions under the new self-employed scheme without any hope of getting a pension. I am thinking in particular of those who are more than 56 years of age. They will have to make contributions until they reach the age of 66 but they will not be entitled to a contributory pension. The Minister should introduce pro rata pensions to cater for such people.

The Bill is largely unexceptional and mechanical. Obviously, we will have to tease out a number of its provisions on Committee Stage. I should like to refer to some fears I have about the new provisions in regard to liability to maintain the family. In principle, I favour the idea behind the proposal but I am worried about the effects of the Bill as it is drafted. It is clear that there is no co-ordination of family law and social welfare legislation. Under current maintenance regulations if a wife is regarded as being in desertion the courts may not allow maintenance. Neither can she get a deserted wife's allowance although she can get a supplementary welfare allowance. It is ludicrous to think that a husband in such a case may have had a maintenance order refused by the courts but he may subsequently be ordered by the same court to reimburse the Minister for Social Welfare or a health board. The District Court, under this provision, will be able to order a contribution even though on a different application a maintenance order might earlier have been refused. That seems to have the possibility of bringing the law into serious disrepute. However, that is not my most serious concern. The new section 317 is more worrying. It may amount to an attack on a dependent wife. If she is in receipt of a deserted wife's allowance and subsequently files an application for a maintenance order she must notify the Department of Social Welfare. The Minister will then decide what portion of the maintenance must be reimbursed. Under that provision it is solely for the Minister to determine the amount. On what basis will such a determination be made? A more serious prospect is that such a determination might include provision for retrospective payments leaving the deserted wife, and her children, far worse off than if she had never filed an application for maintenance.

Similar questions arise under the next section. If a person ceases to receive the benefit or allowance is she still liable to make payments retrospectively? There is a danger that the section, as framed, may result not in husbands meeting their obligations but in wives and children being kept in poverty. I am worried, particularly in the light of the experience of the ill-thought out proposals mentioned earlier, that anomalies will arise. It is obvious that the effect of the proposal, as drafted, is that it will undermine court decisions and, more important, instead of bringing recalcitrant spouses to heel may amount to an attack on deserted wives. It is important that the House should tease out those provisions fully on Committee Stage.

For the reasons I have stated I am very disappointed with the Bill. The priority focus for us all must be on jobs, not jobs for the boys but jobs for as many men and women as possible. The economic imperative, the social imperative and the political imperative is job creation. The Bill lacks the vision, foresight and reforms needed to encourage job creation. It is my intention to table, on behalf of Fine Gael, a series of amendments principally focused on job creation and the reforms needed in our social welfare system to encourage that.

The manner in which social welfare issues are dealt with by the Dáil is totally unsatisfactory. There are only two general debates each year in the House on matters relating to social welfare. The first is the debate on the Social Welfare Bill which gives legislative effect to the budget changes in relation to social welfare matters. The second debate is that on the Estimate for the Department. It is usually a two-hour debate and deals with the allocation of money for the various sections of welfare. That is a disgrace given that we spend £2.6 billion each year on social welfare, £1.6 billion put in by the Exchequer and a further £1 billion by the social insurance fund. There are 741,478 recipients of social welfare and they have 160,514 adult dependants. Almost one million adults are in receipt of some social welfare payment each week.

It is time we reformed fundamentally our social welfare system. I should like to pay tribute to the Minister for Social Welfare who has gone much further than any of his predecessors in seeking to rationalise the number of payments, to simplify the system and to extend welfare payments to new categories of persons. I should like to compliment him for that because he has made major improvements. He has been imaginative in many ways. He has reduced the number of payments in respect of children from 36 to 12 and the number of payments in respect of other categories from 17 to six. That is still not good enough but when people make an effort to go in the right direction they deserve our support and compliments.

However, until such time as the House establishes an all-party committee to simplify our social welfare code we will not get the type of changes that are urgently required. Such a committee should be established as soon as possible. It should have working with it the Economic and Social Research Institute which would act in the first instance as a research group to that committee and, second, as an outside independent group working on a consultative basis with Members of this House. That committee should receive submissions from people working with social welfare recipients and the poor and deprived in our society.

So many of these groups put a lot of time and money into preparing very detailed worthwhile submissions but, unfortunately, do not get very far. Such a committee should be asked to report to this House within nine months to one year and the findings fully debated and implemented by whatever Government happen to be in power. It is disgraceful that the report of the Committee on Social Welfare has never been debated in this House. Such reports on which a lot of public money has been spent and on which there is much public interest should be debated by the Members of this House.

This happens not just in relation to social welfare matters. The very fine reports of the Commission on Taxation are never debated in this House either. When problems arise there is great urgency on the part of the Government of the day to establish a committee to longfinger action to get over the problems. Then the reports of these commissions are usually left in the Library of this House and ignored.

Our welfare system which is very complicated is also very unfair. It could be radically reformed by introducing a number of sensible measures. I will mention just a few. Those who are dependent on social welfare have to go through the most degrading treatment to get what they should be entitled to. The means test carried out by both the Department of Social Welfare and other Government and State agencies is often degrading to those who have to go through them.

A new self-assessment system should be introduced. If it is appropriate for people to assess themselves for taxation purposes it is equally appropriate for people to assess themselves for social welfare purposes. The Minister has said already that he is considering introducing self-assessment for more categories of social welfare payments. I would urge him to do that as soon as possible.

At the moment there are 11 different means test schemes in operation in the Department of Social Welfare. In response to a Dáil question by my party last week I learned that there were 234,084 such tests carried out in the last year in which figures were available, 1986; and that there are 235 social welfare officers involved in this work. That is a waste of the resources of the State. These public servants would be more usefully employed working with applicants for social welfare explaining people's rights and acting as a liaison between the public on the one hand and the Department on the other. Obviously any means test based on self-assessment would have to carry with it very stiff penalties if false information is given.

At the moment a person applying for social welfare may also have to apply for a medical card and may live in a local authority house. He may have to apply to the Department of Social Welfare first for supplementary benefits when they are assessed, and then to the health board for a medical card; the local authority will then assess them for differential rent. This is a gross waste of limited resources, and it is time it was brought to an end. All that is necessary is a simple application form, a simple means test for all these benefits. People could complete these forms and if necessary they could get assistance from the officers currently engaged in carrying out means tests.

Another degrading practice is the requirement that unemployed people sign on each week to prove that they are unemployed. Many have to queue in the street, and many hold newspapers over their faces because they are ashamed of the fact that they are unemployed. This is a disgraceful way to treat our unemployed. There are major problems with unemployment here. It should not be necessary for people to go through such degrading procedures to get what they are entitled to.

An extension of the new notification of commencement of earnings procedure to all categories of employment, in addition to stiffer penalties, would be a more effective way of ensuring that those who claim unemployment benefit or assistance are genuinely unemployed. The defence used for the present procedure is that it acts as a deterrent to people in employment claiming benefit. I do not believe that. A small number of people might escape if the system was changed but the vast majority claiming assistance or unemployment benefit are genuinely unemployed decent people who deserve to be treated better by the State.

At the moment there are 11 different rates of payment in respect of children in our social welfare system. This is a huge improvement on what existed two years ago. Nevertheless, it is unnecessary to have so many different rates. Only two are needed, one for children up to the age of ten and a higher rate for older children whose needs are more expensive. Implementing this would greatly simplify the system and help in particular families with a large number of children.

The supplementary welfare system acts as a fire brigade system for those in emergency situations. Despite its drawbacks, there is a need for a flexible system of welfare which can deal with emergencies as they arise. However, it is not necessary for that system to be operated by the Department of Health. That leads to unnecessary duplication. I would urge the Minister to incorporate that scheme into his Department.

I agree too with the comments made by Deputy O'Keeffe in relation to the disabled person's allowance. That too is a welfare matter and should be run by the Department of Social Welfare. Anything that relates to health is more appropriate to the Department of Health. It should not be seen as a welfare matter but should be handled by the appropriate Department. Administrative procedures would be greatly improved if they were more streamlined and if the Department ultimately responsible for welfare matters, the Department of Social Welfare, took over total responsibility for all aspects of welfare.

The recent ESRI report for the Combat Poverty Agency on poverty in Ireland showed that 17 per cent of the poor belonged to families where the head of the household was in employment. That is a frightening statistic. Despite the head of household being in employment, these families are living in poverty and still have to pay PRSI and tax. For example, a married man with four children earning £220 per week pays £42 a week in tax and £16 a week in PRSI. PRSI is a tax on work and acts as a major disincentive to employment. If we are to encourage employment this disincentive needs to be removed. It is not a social insurance in any sense. It is no more than a tax under another name. It is time we dismantled the PRSI system by removing the payment of employees' PRSI. I accept that it cannot be done overnight but we should begin the process. A more effective way of helping low income earners in this year's budget would have been to remove the payment of PRSI from the first £2,000 worth of income. I know there was a question to the Minister on what that would cost and I have not seen the answer; but I understand that in 1989 the removal of PRSI from the first £2,000 worth of income would have cost £87 million.

Despite the improvements in the budget that the Minister said would help low income families, there will be no improvement at all for families with an income of £3,000 or less, yet they will continue to pay PRSI. If we removed PRSI from the first £2,000 of income all employees would have been helped, but particularly low income earners.

On 26 January in his budget speech the Minister gave an example of how the changes would help low income families, particularly the tax exemption changes and the child benefit increases for low income families. One of the strange things I discovered about that was that if you were earning £7,000 a year your income, including family income supplement, would be £179 per week but if you were earning £9,000 a year your income, including family income supplement, would be £169 per week. In other words, you would get £10 a week less while earning £2,000 a year more. That indicates very clearly the disincentive effect of the PRSI system and the fact that it puts many people into the poverty trap. For an employer to give a single employee on average industrial earnings an extra £1 in take home pay it will cost him in excess of £3. That is a disgrace. The gap between what the employee takes home and what it costs the employer is so huge that it acts as a major disincentive to employment and increases costs for the country. It leads to our products being less competitive than they are elsewhere.

I referred earlier to the improvements that were made in rationalising the number of payments for the different schemes. I note the Minister said he intends to introduce one scheme for lone parent families. I believe one scheme would be sufficient; I understand there are six schemes at present. I believe equally that there should be only one scheme and one rate of payment for all those who are unemployed. That people should fall into different categories of payment simply on the basis of whether they have been employed for three months, six months or whatever or on the basis of previous social insurance contributions is wrong and unfair. I also believe there should be one rate of payment for those whom I would broadly describe as handicapped or invalids. The only area where there should be two rates, where there should be a distinction between those who paid PRSI for a long period during their working lives and those who paid for a shorter time, is in the area of old age pensions. It would be right that people who have paid PRSI on the understanding that they would get more when they retired or when they were elderly should continue to receive a higher rate. Other than that there should be just one rate of payment for all categories of persons.

I would urge the Minister to introduce as soon as possible the measures he announced over 12 months ago in relation to the payment of disability benefit. This is one area of the social welfare system where there is widespread abuse and fraud. Until such time as employers are asked to police the disability payments scheme, particularly for the first number of weeks — I understand consideration is being given to the first 13 weeks — we will not see major improvements. It is over-bureaucratic and very expensive to have to engage in the medical referee procedure particularly in the early weeks of disability payment. It would be much more effective if the employer was asked to do this job.

Some of the measures I welcome in this Bill include the abolition of the distinction between the urban and non-urban rates of unemployment assistance. As the Minister said in his speech, to pay different rates to people who live sometimes in the same estate — as happens in places like Clondalkin and Tallaght and other parts of the country — is ludicrous. It is time that scheme, which I understand from the Minister's speech, came into being in 1934, was ended because there is no longer a need for it. Equally, the new measures to deal with the collusion between employers and employees should be welcomed. The employer will be liable for repayment on demand, by way of a civil debt, of any moneys paid to an employee where he colludes with him or her in relation to pretending the person is unemployed.

The introduction of a deserted husband's or widower's allowance is also to be welcomed although obviously there will be still a distinction between women and men in that men will be means tested and will receive the payment on an assistance basis only whereas women qualify on a benefit basis. Nonetheless, the changes are to be welcomed and are long overdue. The changes in separate payments is also to be welcomed. There is no doubt that since the spouse is only paid the adult dependant rate plus the rate for children causes grave hardship for many spouses. A separated wife whose husband is unemployed can often get £20 less per week than a deserted wife. It is right that a greater proportion of the payment should go to the dependent spouse, the person who in many cases looks after the children. Nonetheless, where there are difficulties of that kind it is virtually impossible, no matter what system we have, for two people living separately to survive on the same level of payment as they would survive on as a family. That is not possible and I am not sure what the correct approach would be to making it possible.

The new procedure whereby the Minister or the health board can apply to the District Court for a maintenance order against a deserting spouse is to be welcomed. It is right that the State should take on board the responsibility of tracing and making deserting spouses liable for their families. It is very difficult to expect a person — a woman in the main — in this position to have to go through the trauma and the difficulty of trying to track down her husband and take him to court in order to prove that she is genuinely deserted. It is right that the State should take over this responsibility. It is also right that if the State is paying benefit to a deserted wife, or to a deserted husband after the new arrangements have been introduced, it should be able to recover from the person who has so deserted the amount to be paid, if that is possible. However, the remarks I made in relation to separate payments apply in this case, too. It is often not possible for people living separately to survive on the level of income or welfare payments they would be able to survive on in a single family unit.

The extension of the age from 18 years to 19 years for child dependant allowance for the long-term unemployed, where the child is still school going, is also to be welcomed. That this allowance has been limited to 18 year olds has caused grave hardship for many families. Many young people are still at school, and do not do their leaving certificate examination until they are 19 and it is only right, particularly for families on long-term unemployment, that they should continue to receive the allowance until the person is 19 years old.

For many people who may have been for many years paying a high mortgage and suddenly find themselves unemployed, their whole world almost falls apart. Very often they are no longer able to continue making their mortgage repayments and have to look to local authorities for housing. I believe the equivalent amount of the mortgage interest relief, paid at the standard rate of tax which is about £1,260 per year for a person on full interest relief, should be paid to people who become unemployed. That would be a much more effective way of helping people in this category than allowing them to lose their houses and to turn to local authorities to provide them with houses costing £40,000 or more in this city and in other parts of the country. If workers are entitled to mortgage interest relief, those who have had a mortgage for a number of years and become unemployed should be equally entitled to a particular allowance and not just be dependent on a supplementary welfare allowance or some such allowance at the discretion of a community welfare officer. They should be entitled, as of right, to a payment to help them keep their homes and the Government should consider that. If that measure was introduced instead of, for example, pay related benefit it would be far more effective and would help a category of people who find it very hard to cope and who have for a long time tried to help themselves in every way possible.

In this country there is an over-dependency on the State to provide people with maintenance in cases where they could rightly help themselves if the tax system was fairer and if there was more of an incentive to work. Any changes that are suggested in the welfare area must be accompanied side by side with changes in the taxation system. One cannot move in one direction without following suit in the other. If one were to do so one would create new poverty traps and would further increase the disincentive to employment.

In the ESRI report, it was suggested that £80 a week was a reasonable income for an adult and that 60 per cent of that or £48 per week would be the poverty line. I do not think that is too much to expect. The rate in respect of a spouse is 0.7 per cent of that, which is £34, and 0.5 per cent in relation to a child, which is £24. According to the ESRI a couple with five children should be entitled to £202 per week, if one takes the 60 per cent level of income, and anything below that would be considered to be living in poverty. I am aware of the remarks of the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance in relation to the numbers of our people living in poverty. Neither of them accepts that 1.3 million people live in poverty. The Taoiseach made the point that when the Combat Poverty Agency were drawing up their report they did not take into account non-cash payments made to many social welfare recipients. That may well be the case, but for a married couple with five children £202 per week is not an enormous amount of money. Yet somebody at that level of income, for example, somebody in receipt of a gross income of £220 a week, with five children, would pay £58 a week in tax and PRSI contributions. In other words, we are taxing some people into poverty.

One of the first things this Government should do to alleviate poverty, particularly for low-income families, would be to commence dismantling the PRSI system, which would be much more effective than the family income supplement. The Minister referred to the report on the family income supplement and said that, contrary to earlier impressions, 20,000 families only rather than 35,000 should be entitled to the family income supplement. Even if we take the 20,000 families, we find that just over 5,000 of them are currently in receipt of the family income supplement. That means that approximately 25 per cent of those entitled to it are in receipt of it. There are a number of reasons for that. First, there is a problem in relation to information about the provisions of the scheme; I know from the people with whom I deal that they are not familiar with its provisions. Second, the scheme is complicated. It is not easy for somebody to ascertain whether they are entitled to its provisions. Third, there is an impression that if somebody qualifies they will lose other benefits they might have had such as a medical card or whatever. It is my belief that this scheme will never be effective, that it will never be possible to get to those 20,000 families. Although the Minister compared the take-up with that of similar schemes in other European countries, contending that probably 12,000 was a more realistic figure at which to aim, I believe that if we work on PRSI we can target exactly those who are in the poverty trap, who are working but are in need of special assistance in order to make it worth while for them to make an effort for themselves. In the long run I believe if we begin the dismantling of the PRSI system — even if only on the first £1,000 of income — it would immediately and radically improve the take-home pay of low income families.

The Minister referred briefly to child benefit. At one point he contended that all mothers will receive child benefit, that at present it is possible, through the taxation system, to correlate child benefit and income levels and that this has been done in respect of 70 per cent of beneficiaries. Like many women in this House and many others in the country I believe it is time to target child benefit to low income families. I believe it is not unreasonable to cease paying child benefit to people on incomes of over £30,000 per annum. Even though I accept that — as the Minister said in the course of answering questions in this House last week — that that would save only £5 million, if that amount could be allocated to the most deprived and poorest sections of the community it would be indeed worth while. There is no justification for paying the same level of child benefit to somebody with an income of £35,000 per year and somebody in receipt of social welfare of, say, between £3,000 and £5,000 per annum. It is time this political hot potato was grasped by this Government once and for all.

Way back in the early sixties the present Taoiseach, then Minister for Finance, spoke about targeting child benefit to low income families and taking it from top income earners. Twenty-seven years on we have done nothing to target child benefit to the poorest and most deprived sections of our community. Many people argue that it constitutes a payment to women and that it would be an insult to women were it abolished. First, I might make the case that it is a payment to women with children only, so that childless married women are entitled to nothing, which is a poor reflection on this State. Second, when children reach a certain age they are not entitled to anything either. Perhaps a more effective method of assisting dependent women would be to consider payment directly to women who have children, and those who do not, the tax-free allowance their spouses are entitled to claim on their behalf.

I referred earlier to the notification to the Department by employers of new employees the Minister has introduced with regard to the contract cleaning, forestry, construction and security areas. As the Minister said, these were the areas in which the greatest abuse occurred. I contend that provision should be introduced in all sectors. I believe there is widespread abuse in agriculture and within the motor and catering industries. I do not single them out; each sector should be expected to comply with these new provisions. I accept that there will be difficulties encountered when introducing schemes of this type. Nonetheless the Government should extend its provisions to all persons newly employed. The Minister referred to what he called cowboy sub-contractors or employers. I believe that would be an effective way to deal with those people defrauding the State to the detriment of the most vulnerable in our society.

If that provision is to be really effective it will have to be accompanied by the introduction of an indentity card scheme. I do not favour the introduction of an identity card scheme for social welfare recipients only: it is time such a scheme was introduced for all citizens from the age of 16 onwards. We always appear to be afraid of the big brother attitude, any form of what might be regarded as officialdom. We now fall into the category of a small number of European countries that do not have such identity cards. The identity card would not merely combat fraudulent practices within the social welfare and taxation systems and in relation to crime, under-age drinking and so many other areas, but would also save our citizens having to use passports when they travel to other European countries.

I must compliment in particular senior officials of the Department of Social Welfare who in recent years have gone out of their way to deliver social welfare payments in a more effective manner to their beneficiaries. There is no doubt that there has been a huge improvement in the level of service to recipients. As a public representative I cannot but compliment the Department on the quick, effective manner in which they deal with queries from us. I have been a Member of the Houses of the Oireachtas for 12 years and I can honestly say that it is the Government Department that has improved most within that period. For example, there was a time when it took weeks to elicit a simple reply to a query; now one can have such a response within a matter of hours. In particular I want to compliment those who have been responsible for initiating a more effective manner of dealing with the public, public representatives and recipients.

However, we need to go somewhat further in terms of the information emanating from that Department because, generally speaking, it is not as simple as it might be. It is not easy for many applicants for benefits to ascertain exactly their entitlements. Application forms and accompanying explanatory leaflets could be simplified to a much greater extent so that the public would understand exactly their entitlements and what is expected of them. I will give a simple example of something I encounter in my clinics, that is, that many people do not understand the meaning of the word "spouse". Some people might find that difficult to believe but it is a fact. The simpler the language the easier it will be for applicants to complete the relevant forms.

Neither is there much point in inserting huge advertisements in papers such as The Irish Times or the Sunday Tribune because generally they are not read by social welfare beneficiaries. We need to target such information and the advertising in which the Department engage more at newspapers, periodicals and publications read by those entitled to benefit. That is not to contend that one can reach all beneficiaries through newspapers or information leaflets. We could be more efficient in targeting the information and publicity at those by whom it is really required.

The Minister dealt with pro rata pensions. While I welcome the changes that were made last year, there is a great deal of confusion and those in the mixed insurance category are still excluded. There are very many elderly people who feel very sore that they will not qualify for even a reduced pension. Given the difficulties that have been caused by this particular problem, it is unreasonable to exclude this category of persons. I ask the Minister to clarify a number of points. For example, I understand that if somebody who worked in this country prior to emigrating returned later and took up employment here they would also be disqualified. Likewise, somebody who was in employment and later became self-employed but went back to working for someone else is also disqualified. Those who returned to paying the full rate of contribution prior to 1974 are also excluded. Perhaps the Minister could clarify who is included under the arrangements.

Deputy O'Keeffe referred to the level of poverty in this country. Whatever figure you take, and regardless of whether you agree with the Taoiseach, there is no doubt that a great number of families, in particular, are living in very real poverty or at least in difficult financial circumstances. Despite the real improvements in helping the long-term unemployed, who are in receipt of the lowest levels of payment, that has not been an effective way of helping the very poor families. A more effective way of helping families, in particular, would be to increase the dependent allowance in respect of the spouse. At present spouses receive around £27 a week. If we were to increase that to £40 a week, an increase of £13 per week — which I understand would have cost £21 million in 1989 — it would have been a huge increase for families and would have been an effective way of dealing with the problems of large families especially.

We need to remove a number of existing anomalies in our social welfare system between what I would regard as persons in married situations and those in unmarried situations. For example, an unmarried mother having a liaison with an unemployed man on long-term unemployment assistance is entitled to £22 a week more than her counterpart who is married. I know the Minister will tell me that if the woman has a liaison in any formal sense and the person concerned is living with her, she will not get the unmarried mother's allowance. There is a disincentive for that person to get married simply because they will be worse off by £22 a week. The only way we will change that anomaly and ensure that families are not discriminated against in our social welfare system is to increase the amount paid in respect of the dependent spouse. If that allowance remains as low as it is, the anomaly will always exist.

No matter what employment incentive the Government introduce over the next few years, we will still have a major problem with unemployment. Almost 20 per cent of the workforce are out of work. There are 16 million people unemployed throughout the European Communities. Even if the Cecchini report with its projected 2 million to 5 million jobs, depending on the action taken by national governments, comes through after 1992, that still means that only 33 per cent of the unemployed in Europe will get jobs.

There will have to be introduced in this country and in the European Communities more imaginative ways of helping the long-term unemployed to have an interest in life in general and in particular to find a useful role for themselves. There are many unemployed people who would love the opportunity of participating in some type of course or of helping, in a voluntary capacity, one day a week perhaps, a voluntary or Government agency. We need to introduce a scheme that allows people in the long-term unemployed category an opportunity of making some contribution to society, even if it is only on a voluntary basis. I have no doubt that many of the long-term unemployed would like to avail of the opportunity of doing something worth while with their time. Such a scheme would have to be organised on a national and official basis. I have no doubt that the skills and resources of the unemployed are being wasted and that people have to waste away in order to qualify for unemployment benefit. People get to the stage when they have been looking for work for such a long time that it is no longer worth their while trying because when they take bus fares, phone calls, or postage into account, it is too expensive to look for work that is not there. The State has an obligation to use the resources and skills of the unemployed in an imaginative way. It might just mean asking somebody to help out in a local school or hospital. There is endless work to be done, which I think could be organised in an official way so that more use could be made of the skills and resources of the unemployed.

I referred earlier to the need to establish a committee of this House for the purpose of simplifying and reforming our social welfare system. Such a committee, given the correct terms of reference and composed of Members of this House interested in welfare matters and given the back-up research facilities of a group such as the ESRI and indeed the Department of Social Welfare, could have a huge effect in changing radically and improving the position of welfare recipients. Some years ago I had the privilege of sitting on a committee that consolidated the then Social Welfare Acts. The committee did not sit for very long but it was an interesting experience. Many Members spend a huge amount of their time dealing with people's welfare applications and matters relating to social welfare of one kind or another. We see many examples of anomalies and we would like to have a say in improving the situation. It is a shame that we have not had that opportunity, that we do not ever have an opportunity to influence social welfare, because, as I said earlier, there are usually only two opportunities to debate welfare matters, and that is during the course of the Social Welfare Bill and the Estimate speech. The experience of Members could usefully be put at the disposal of this country if such a committee were to be established and given a period of nine months to a year to report. Such a committee could consider the report of the Commission on Social Welfare, many of whose recommendations I support, but I think the commission operated on the concept of extending social welfare rather than limiting the concept of dependency and trying to help people to help themselves. I have no doubt that if we move towards reducing taxation and dismantling the disincentives to employment by way of PRSI payments, we will create opportunities for people who are currently dependent on the State in order to survive. I believe also that if we end some of the degrading practices such as signing on for unemployment benefits and the various means tests for social welfare payments we will have improved the position of those who are most vulnerable in our society, who are dependent on social welfare. These measures could be introduced if people had a little more faith in our welfare recipients. There is a view that if somebody is a social welfare recipient or unemployed, that person is obviously lazy and could not care less. I have no doubt that there are lazy people among the unemployed but there are also people working who are lazy and could not care less and I do not think that this is confined to one group or the other.

We have an obligation to be concerned about those in our society who are dependent on the State. We have an obligation to represent them because they do not have the powerful lobbies that other groups have. I am delighted that the Catholic Church, in particular, has seen fit to speak out on their behalf in recent times. Groups like the Combat Poverty Agency have been vociferous in highlighting the need for change in our social welfare system. I think the most effective way that this Dáil could help to bring about the type of changes required and show the concern that social welfare recipients deserve is by establishing a committee of this House which over the next couple of months would apply itself with great vigour and concern to reforming many of the anomalies that currently put people at the bottom level in our society in a very difficult situation.

There may not be a lot we can do in terms of financial aid for social welfare recipients. This country does not have huge resources, but we can do a lot to streamline and improve the system to make it more effective and fair. If we were setting up a social welfare system now and did not have the plethora of schemes introduced in recent years to deal with problems, we would not take on board many of the schemes that are currently in operation.

To take up Deputy Harney's point about an all-party committee, I mentioned that a number of times over the last six years to different Ministers for Social Welfare. When one considers that approximately one third of the population are in receipt of social welfare in one form or another compared with the very small number of people and the small level of employment affected by semi-State companies whose activities receive substantial headlines when examined by a committee of the House, one wonders where our priorities are.

There is no doubt about the absolute need for an all-party committee of this House to deal with social welfare. I entirely agree with the sentiments expressed by Deputy Harney that such a committee should be properly serviced with the necessary expertise. We should not have to rely on pre-budget submissions by various organisations drawing attention to the problems of poverty. National and local politicians who work with people on a daily basis do not need to be reminded about poverty because we see it every day of the week.

We should get our act together. The only real discussion of any kind about social welfare takes place during the debate on the Social Welfare Bill. That is not good enough. The people in the poverty trap are the only section of the community without a representative body. The farmers have a very strong representative body, as do the organised workforce through the Irish Congress of Trade Unions or individual unions. To the credit of the unions, they have attempted to play a part in the area of social welfare. There are also the FUE and the CII representing other power blocs or pressure groups.

Nobody really represents the people on social welfare except the Members of Dáil Éireann. It is our responsibility to ensure that people on social welfare have enough on which to live. They do not have that at the moment. The churches, collectively, have recognised this and I welcome their intervention in this area as many of us who are involved in political parties and who take an interest in social welfare recipients are not listened to because there are no dramatic headlines about somebody dying from hunger or about a person living outside the Dáil in a cardboard box because there is not enough money for a B & B, to live in a hotel or to get a house. Not so long ago, I saw a woman asleep in a cardboard box within ten yards of the gate of Dáil Éireann. That sort of thing is happening all over Dublin city, and it is happening more and more throughout our towns and cities. Last week I saw a young fellow of 16 in a homeless aid centre. The home had broken up and he had no income and did not qualify for any assistance. He had to go to a homeless aid centre in order to survive, and he was suffering from malnutrition. The whole question of poverty is something the Dáil have to come to grips with.

I accept that the Minister has made an attempt to rationalise the system, but what has been done related to problems that have been standing out like sore thumbs over many years. These problems should have been dealt with many years ago by successive Governments. It was pointed out by me and other Members of the Dáil that there were many confusing aspects of social welfare relating to the multiplicity of rules and regulations and the 47 or 48 different benefit systems and so on. Part of the work of an all party committee could be to rationalise the system, to simplify it and to find a way to allow people in receipt of social welfare not to feel degraded and insulted by the system. We should finish up with a system that would allow people an income on which they could survive.

It is all right for us, for the Minister and the Department to talk of a 3 per cent, a 5 per cent or an 11 per cent increase, but what does that mean to somebody on £37 a week social welfare? There are people who would spend that in the Shelbourne Hotel on one lunch and yet we expect people to feed and clothe themselves on that.

I would refer to another point made by Deputy Harney. I am not trying to steal the Deputy's thunder; I just happen to agree with the two main points she made. I agree with Deputy Harney that the service provided by the Department has improved substantially, but the reason is different from that given by Deputy Harney. The reason for the improvement was the furore in the national media about the level of PQs being put down by Members, including Deputy Harney. I remember heading the poll in relation to that at one time, and getting a right telling off in the national media because it was costing so much to put down PQs and get replies from the Department of Social Welfare. As a result the system has been radically changed and, as Deputy Harney said, we can now get the information virtually overnight, or within 48 hours. That service is much appreciated by the unfortunate people who because of a delay in the post, a delay in handling a query or shortage of staff in a Department often had to wait eight or ten weeks to receive payment of benefit and crawl on their hands and knees into a community welfare officer to get payment pending a reply to a query. The system has changed and I hope it changes still further. When one looks at the Order Paper now — and the Ceann Comhairle will know this better than anyone — one will see that the number of questions to the Department of Social Welfare has been substantially reduced.

I would like to refer to abuse, which in social welfare terms always gets major headlines. I suppose one can understand the reason for this but there is a new practice in the area of social welfare which is developing very rapidly. This practice is led by the multiples who are now tearing the guts out of the bakery industry and putting very many men and women on the dole queue, this has happened to footwear workers, clothing workers and textile workers during the past 15 years. These multiples are now the leaders in the "part-time brigade" which has developed over the past number of years. Young girls and boys are employed on a part-time basis they work a few hours in the morning, a few hours in the afternoon and a few hours late at night, and they are paid buttons. One might ask what that has to do with social welfare. It has a hell of a lot to do with social welfare.

I carried out a survey in this area. I believe the majority of these young people are being exploited to the extent that they are not paying any social welfare contributions because they are not working the statutory number of hours. In this way, the employers do not have to pay their proper contributions under the social welfare system but when these employees become unemployed they will not be entitled to proper social welfare payments. This practice is developing at a rapid rate, particularly among the large multiples in the retail sector. People are beginning to wonder when these workers will become full time employees.

Last week in my town I met a girl who had been employed on a temporary part time basis for five years and who was not covered for any benefits. These employers are putting people in the bakery, textile, footwear and clothing industries on the dole. This practice needs to be investigated and these employers should be obliged to submit to the Department of Social Welfare information on the number of people they employ on a full-time basis, the number they employ on a part-time basis and the hours they work.

This is one of the greatest exploitations of young people I have ever come across the 30 years I have been involved in trade union affairs. The trade unions will have to become more active in this area and young people will have to be advised to join trade unions. The reason many young people are not joining trade unions at present is that many of them come from the very families we are talking about today — families on low incomes and families on social welfare and in order to supplement the miserable amount of money they get from the social welfare system many kids are forced to take these jobs. They often work very late at night, well after midnight in some cases, and in many cases there is no proper record of the payments made to them. In this way the system is being deprived of substantial moneys and young people are being exploited because their parents do not have a decent income.

If these families received a decent income the parents would not allow their children to take up employment with these racketeers. These employers are racketeers of the worst kind — they steal money out of the pockets of young people and in many cases there is no return to the tax system or the social welfare system. I ask the Minister to take particular note of this practice because, if it is allowed to develop, in a year or two from now it will have increased to alarming proportions.

I should like to refer to some provisions in the Bill. I welcome a number of them because they are proposals which came from the Labour Party and which I made in this House over the past number of years. I am glad that the Minister has taken these proposals on board. I do not know how long we have been discussing pro rata pensions, it was being discussed long before I came into Dáil Éireann but I do not think the present proposal goes far enough. I intend putting down an amendment to this provision on Committee Stage and I hope the Minister will accept it. I believe a pro rata pension should be dealt with as it states —pro rata— and anybody who pays social welfare should be paid pro rata to the contributions they have made. The regulations, as they are now framed, will create much confusion and further anomalies. I will deal with this subject on Committee Stage. However, I want to refer to one point.

When many local authority employees and health board workers in certain categories who had paid social welfare contributions for 20 or 30 years were promoted to a supervisory position or became staff, which I think they are called, they did not continue to pay these contributions. They went on to local authority pension schemes and the net result was that they were only entitled to that pension. Many of those men who had worked all their lives are now getting less than if they were receiving an old age pension but they cannot get the old age pension because of the anomalies in the pro rata pension system. They feel very bitter about this. I hope to introduce an amendment on Committee Stage dealing with this matter.

I should like to refer again to fraud. We need to be very careful that we do not go overboard. Much resentment and fear is building up among the people on social welfare because they believe they are being interrogated in many cases. It was never intended that the various sections of the Department which investigate fraud should act in a Gestapo way. Of course, they are obliged to get and receive the information necessary in order to investigate any proposed fraud or abuse but I should like to draw the Minister's attention — and I am sure he is aware of this — to the fact that people feel that members of the public are being paid to spy on them at a price, on a piecework basis, and that they will be paid for everybody they squeal on. It is necessary only for people to write a letter to the Department or to the local employment exchange making any accusation they wish against a next door neighbour. I understand there is at the moment a special section dealing with such accusations. I have come across quite a bit of this. When we go to defend these people at appeals it is not possible to get the information required to enter a proper defence. Social welfare investigating officers, particularly those involved with the special investigating unit, will not supply us with the necessary documentation showing how they have come to the conclusion that a person has defrauded the system.

There was a case of a man who had eight children having his benefit stopped on a Christmas Eve. It took me one solid year to fight that case until it was discovered — and the Department accepted this — that it was a case of mistaken identity. There were two persons with the same name and the social welfare officer identified the wrong man. All the money was refunded to that person, but for one year he and his family felt like criminals. The man will never forget the difficult time he had. I am not saying that all cases are as bad as that, but there are a number of areas that must be changed with regard to the investigation of social welfare abuse.

As the law is framed now, the social welfare investigating officer has more power than the Special Branch of the Garda Síochána, or any member of that body. They must go through a certain drill in accordance with the law. Effectively those investigating the abuse of social welfare payments can find a person guilty without ever bringing him or her to trial. It is the only sector of the community that can be found guilty until proved innocent. Once a complaint goes to the special investigating unit, payment is automatically cut off and the person must go to the community welfare officer for payment. Information about the situation having being passed to him, the community welfare officer treats the person in the same way.

The regulations under that section must be altered and, if not, we as Members of the Opposition jointly will have to do something to alter them. In dealing with abuse one can over-react and innocent people are falling foul of that regulation at the moment. When a complaint is made that a person is alleged to have been working or to have abused the system, that person should be presented with the facts and figures as received from the source by the investigating officer. Even in a murder case, which is probably one of the most serious crimes, if not the most serious crime in any state, the solicitor or representative of the accused, will be able to examine the book of evidence before the court case takes place. This is to establish the evidence the State has in relation to the charge of murder and ensures that that person can be properly defended.

I spent more than 25 years on the appeals panel of the Department of Social Welfare. People accused of working while in receipt of social welfare payments or of fraud have no means of defending themselves. They do not know who made the complaint, or from whence it came. They have no indication of what is in the report of the special investigating officer, what information was given to the deciding officer and on what basis he made his decision. When the matter goes to appeal, the appeals officer will write across the document: "Decision of the deciding officer upheld". No indication is given as to how that decision was arrived at. I am consistently hearing of more of those cases not alone in my constituency but throughout the length and breadth of the country. Serious consideration should be given to the whole question of the conduct of investigation, the powers of the officers concerned and the manner in which the information supplied to them should be made available, either to the person if he so wishes or to his representative. I am making that plea.

Quite a number of other matters arise but I am sure we can deal with them more adequately on Committee Stage. I support the comments of the two previous speakers with regard to people over 60 years of age. For example, people in the public service are being encouraged by the Government to take early retirement or voluntary redundancy. They get their entitlements from the Department of Labour, and their pension from the local authority. They sign on at the employment exchange and are asked where they are looking for employment. Did you ever hear anything more ridiculous? They are told they will get their pension, their redundancy money, a payment from the Department of Social Welfare, PRSI, etc. and then they can apply for unemployment assistance, and when they reach their retirement or old age pension date they will get their pension. Such people are now being told that they cannot get unemployment benefit because they are not looking for employment. It would not happen in Africa. This is stone age stuff.

I raised this matter by way of parliamentary question and am again doing so because I feel very strongly about it. People over 60 years of age should not be asked to fill in a form that they are seeking employment on the day they retire on a voluntary basis or go redundant, by encouragement from the local authority, the Department of the Environment and the Department of Labour. That is crazy. I was hoping this Bill would include the elimination of the retirement benefit. I do not see why there should be a two-tier retirement system. If a person reaches the age of 65, the present recognised retirement age, he or she should be paid the old age pension there and then Look at the amount of administration that would save for a start. Two sections in one Department deal with a person a 65 years of age and at 66 years of age, necessitating the filling in of additional forms and obtaining the same information twice. Rationalisation would eliminate a very substantial amount of work within that Department.

We must bring down the retirement age. This is what we should do if we want to get some of the young people to work and take them off unemployment benefit or assistance in most cases. It would be much better to have people retiring at 60 years of age, many of whom would have worked 40 or 45 years in full-time employment, rather than have young people emigrating to London, Birmingham or Manchester, or queueing up outside the American Embassy with cap in hand looking for a visa. An all-party committee on social welfare should concentrate on matters of that kind and develop policy by all-party agreement in relation to social welfare. This would ensure that far greater progress would be made.

I should also like to refer to the free fuel scheme. In fairness, attempts were made to rationalise and improve the system. I also accept that this is the first year of its operation and that, therefore, there would be problems. However, major problems have developed. For instance, an old age pensioner living with her son who is on unemployment assistance is not entitled to free fuel. I am sure the Minister knows that in cases like that the young man or woman living with an older person will simply go and live with another relative so that the old person can get the free fuel. We should not be encouraging children to leave home.

One of the main reasons for 32,000 people leaving the country this year and last is the low level of social welfare allowances. They have to go, cap in hand, to the Department who carry out a means test. If the father or mother of the young person is working the Department will not grant any allowance. Sometimes an exception is made and a sum of £10 is given. A young man came into my office some time ago and told me he had been awarded 50p and he had to travel six miles to collect it every week. That young man is now working in London because he got sick of the system, and I would not blame him. The Minister will have to come to grips with those two problems. In the case of the young man living at home, his father makes the major contribution to the home, but I have five children and I know what it costs to keep them at that age.

I am also concerned about the indignity suffered by the young person. The money offered is an insult to young people. They cannot spend all their time sitting at home. They need money to go to a disco or to bring their girl friend out for a pint or a bottle of lemonade. They cannot keep walking the streets because that has led to a substantial increase in crime and other types of activity which were unheard of in past generations. Thousands of young people are going to local employment offices and receiving a pittance. In some cases two or three young people rent a house or flat between them and they can then claim the full amount. It would be far better if they were under their parents' roof where at least they would be under control. I appeal to the Minister, in the interests of the young unemployed, to change that rule.

Nobody seems to be too clear about the guidelines issued to social welfare officers because one will grant £10 and another will grant £25. Politicians have to bear the brunt of this policy as we are often asked how others in the same position get more money. It is creating a lot of bitterness among young people and leading them into crime. I do not know how much it would cost, financially, to change the regulations but keeping young people at home should be a priority. If I could change any provision in the Social Welfare Bill it would be in relation to this allowance. I appeal to the Minister to issue a new regulation to managers of employment exchanges and social welfare officers in relation to this matter.

Over 1.2 million people depend on social welfare and live in poverty. That is 33.7 per cent of the population. When various churches and church leaders plead with politicians to do something about the level of poverty and low social welfare payments, it is time to sit up and take notice. I have come to the conclusion that nobody in the Oireachtas over the years gave a damn about the people on social welfare. However, they will have to listen to them now. Heretofore, people on social welfare represented a much smaller section of the community, but there are now more people on social welfare than there are farmers. Indeed, farmers had some political clout and changed Governments for a hell of a lot less. There are more people on social welfare than those affiliated to the Irish Congress of Trade Unions and all the other unions. They will eventually unite, they are merely waiting for someone to lead them. I welcome the churches taking a more active part in highlighting their plight because they, more than anyone, realise what poverty is; like us, they see it in the course of their daily work.

You cannot say that people are better off on social welfare. Anyone who says that is telling a lie. People on social welfare are no better off than they were 20 years ago. The Minister has rationalised the system and brought in things which I had fought for over the years, even before I was a Member of this House. However, that is not putting money in people's pockets or food in their bellies, and that is what we are talking about. The question therefore is what do we do about it? All of the savings should be used in improving the system and the greatest slice of the moneys owed by the biggest frauds of all, those who are defrauding the taxation system — it is those from whom we have to get money — should be given to the poorer sections of our community. Poverty in Ireland is increasing and it will continue to increase until something dramatic is done.

We should forget talking about increases of 3 per cent, 5 per cent or 11 per cent, as those in receipt of social welfare benefits do not understand percentages. They cannot afford to educate their children any longer as at every hand's turn the system wants to get money out of them. It is only those in the higher income brackets who can afford to send their children to third level education. There are not too many people attending University College Dublin, Trinity College, University College Cork or University College Galway whose parents are in receipt of social welfare benefits. The percentage is very low. When we talk about social welfare we should not forget that we are not only talking about the payment of social welfare benefits but also about what is going to happen in the future if we do not put people back to work or give them back their dignity.

I hope we will eliminate the need to pay social welfare benefits altogether. It is the greatest evil ever created. It is an excuse for lazy Government and paying people a handout for doing nothing. No man or woman wants to be paid for doing nothing. They would prefer to go out and earn their living and that people would have respect for them. That can only be put right by Dáil Éireann. This is one thing we cannot blame anyone else for. This is the one time when the combined Opposition are in a position to tell the Government what to do. This is the one time when we can say to the Government that this is what we want them to do and this is what they are going to do. I do not know whether it will come to that but we will find out in due course. The Minister may be thinking that I am having a go at him but I am not. In fact I paid him a compliment in his absence for reacting to many of the concerns expressed by those of us in Opposition. I will have a number of things to say when we come to Committee Stage but for now I will let the hare sit.

I am pleased to have this opportunity to speak to the Social Welfare Bill, 1989. At the outset I would like to compliment the Minister for Social Welfare, Deputy Woods, for the exceptional progress which has been made by the Government in protecting and improving the position of those dependent on social welfare payments. That being said, it should come as no surprise to anyone that the Minister has adopted a caring approach to the needy. When he was Minister for Social Welfare in the early eighties he increased old age pensions by 25 per cent in each of the three years 1980, 1981 and 1982. These very significant increases were a major factor in giving dignity and a reasonable income to the elderly after a lifetime of work. The increases outlined in this Bill concentrate on the needs of families and those in receipt of the lowest social welfare payments. That is as it should be.

The Government have made major progress in getting the public finances back on a sound footing. That was one of the priorities of the Government on taking up office. During the previous four years we had to listen to a Coalition Government tell us what needed to be done. Their first priority, according to them, was to reduce annual borrowing and the national debt. The end result of four years of Coalition mismanagement was quite the opposite. During that period annual borrowing increased to £2,145 million while the national debt doubled from £12.7 billion to £25 billion by March 1987. This occurred under a Coalition Government who preached the need for fiscal rectitude. At the same time they acted with reckless disregard for the needs of the country.

It took this strong Fianna Fáil Government to stop and reverse this trend. The budget for 1989 projects annual borrowing at £1,057 million, which is only half the rate we inherited from the Coalition just two years ago. The Government recognised that decisive action was needed and they took the necessary steps to restore order to the public finances. It is to their credit that they have achieved this turnabout while paying special attention to the needs of those dependent on social welfare payments. To appreciate the extent of the Government's achievement it must be remembered that the Government have increased social welfare payments with special substantial increases for those in receipt of the lowest payments and have made a range of improvements in the social welfare system. The annual cost of improvements in the 1988 and 1989 budgets totalled £255 million. This is a real transfer of resources to those in receipt of social welfare payments.

The various pressure groups fail to appreciate that substantial progress has been made by the Government in helping those on low incomes. I compliment Deputy Harney for recognising the progress that has been made during the past two years and complimenting the Minister, Deputy Woods, for this. I was disappointed that the main Opposition spokesperson did not do likewise and recognise that progress has been made, rather than adopting a negative attitude. It was very easy for Deputy Bell to argue that we should not talk in terms of percentages but, having done practically nothing when in Government for four years, the Opposition find it very easy not to recognise that progress has been made.

There was much discussion on television and many articles in the newspapers on poverty in our society before the presentation of this year's budget. It was almost as if the media had suddenly discovered poverty. As the public finances were in order a controversial subject for debate with politicians was removed from the list of current topics and poverty was added. I accept that there is poverty. I represent an area where there is high unemployment and I keep in regular touch with people who are facing real difficulties in making ends meet. I live in Cork and represent a constituency which is one of the worst affected areas when it comes to unemployment. I am not sure whether an attempt to sensationalise poverty would do any good for the majority of those in need. What we need is a practical, committed and caring approach on the part of the Government and society.

The Minister for Social Welfare has shown his qualities and has taken practical steps to improve the position of those in receipt of social welfare payments. Lest anyone forget, he was taking action before the present outcry in the media began. Provision was made in last year's budget for an 11 per cent increase in the level of unemployment assistance. This was the lowest social welfare payment and it was recognised that the unemployed, particularly the long-term unemployed, were the group at greatest risk. That increase marked a significant first step in improving their position. The Minister proposes to further increase the unemployment assistance payment by 12 per cent this year. This represents a total increase of about 25 per cent over two years. In cash terms it means an increase of £8.20 per week for a family with three children bringing their total payment to £107 per week, and this does not include child benefit or other benefits. We all recognise this is not enough. We must continue to work on their behalf, but these exceptional increases of 11 to 12 per cent are being granted when inflation is running at just over 2 per cent and workers are getting increases of around 3 per cent. This decision to concentrate the resources of the State for the benefit of the long-term unemployed was agreed with the social partners and incorporated in the Programme for National Recovery. This programme was agreed and was being implemented before the poverty lobby really took off. I am not suggesting they have not a role to play, and we must get the balance right.

I am glad the Minister has decided to end the urban renewal anomaly whereby persons outside urban renewal areas are legally defined and paid a lower rate of unemployment assistance than persons in urban areas. This was a long-standing anomaly. It may have served some use when it was introduced in 1934 but is totally outmoded now. People in certain areas were on different rates depending on what side of the street they lived. That makes no sense. The cost of living is no different just because one happens to live on one side of the street and is not in the legally defined urban area. This anomaly has existed for too long and it has been impossible to explain to people why they should receive less money because they are not in a legally defined urban area. I am glad the Minister has decided to raise the lower rural rate of unemployment assistance to the level of the higher urban rate. This will mean an increase of £1.30 per week for people on the long term rate of unemployment assistance. This increase is on top of the £5 per week in the personal rate of assistance.

Debate adjourned.
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