Vol. 389 No. 6
asked the Minister for the Marine if the examination of the issues regarding possible compensation for former Irish Shipping workers, which he indicated on 3 May 1988 was underway, has yet been completed; if he has yet brought any proposals before the Government; if he intends to have any further discussion with the former employees; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
33.
asked the Minister for the Marine the reason he has failed to honour his party's promise to the former employees of Irish Shipping Ltd.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 16 and 33 together.
In the course of my reply to a similar question put down by the Deputy some time ago I indicated that the issue raised complex and sensitive legal issues requiring careful examination.
I must confess that, to date, I have been unable to resolve the difficulties of finding a mechanism which would enable the Government to assist former Irish Shipping workers without running the risk of exposing the taxpayer to a very large liability, possibly of the order of £200 million.
On 14 April 1989, the Minister for Labour and the Minister for the Marine met a delegation of former Irish Shipping Limited employees. They explained in detail the difficulties involved which I had explained to the House some time previously. I have no further information other than from paper reports that legal proceedings are pending. As yet I am not aware whether they have been initiated. If that is the case I would be somewhat fearful at this stage of venturing into deep waters.
Would the Minister agree that on the last occasion when asked if it would be dealt with within six months the Minister completed his reply by saying, as reported at columns 14 and 15 of the Official Report for 3 May, 1988:
I would expect that within that period there should be a definite answer.
Can I take it now that the Minister's answer is no, that the Government because of the complex sensitive legal issues — I have never been able to find out what they are — do not intend doing anything for the employees of Irish Shipping many of whom have not got the wages that are due to them? Has anything been resolved?
I am not surprised that the Deputy should ask me that question. In my reply on that occasion to which he refers both in relation to the question itself and the supplementaries I made it clear that the matter was an extremely complex one which raised sensitive issues. I genuinely felt at that stage that a six months timescale might be appropriate. With the gift of hindsight it appears that the timescale has turned out to be somewhat ambitious. The liquidation is still pending and indications are that it will not be completed for some five years. A distribution of preferential creditors took place on 15 December 1988. In the meantime we are continuing to examine the issues but as many Deputies on all sides of the House have acknowledged the issues are complex and fraught with danger. The Deputy says he cannot understand what the legal difficulties are. I believe that commercial law would take its course here and any measures taken by us at this time could have serious effects and could cost the taxpayer something in the order of £200 million. The statutory redundancy was paid. I should like to inform the Deputy that the Government discussed this matter but did not take any decision as yet.
Surely the Minister will agree that this has been a painful case for the employees of Irish Shipping and that all of us, and the Government in particular, have a responsibility to the employees of the company who served us so well over so many years? May I ask the Minister if he has explored possibilities outside of existing legislation? First, why are there wages outstanding? Surely that matter should have been resolved years ago. There is no legal difficulty whatever about paying off the wages that are due to some employees? Secondly, has the Minister explored the possibility of some type of ex gratia payment, the establishment of a particular fund or whatever that would be outside the sensitive and complex legal area because of the responsibility which we all have and which the previous Government had to the employees of Irish Shipping?
I want to assist the Deputy but let us have relevant questions.
In relation to the question of wages which the Deputy suggests are outstanding I would like to inform him that all avenues are being explored and the question of an ex gratia payment would be seen — as far as I understand — to be a payment to creditors and from the advice available to me would have a knock-on effect and would open the floodgates to the tune of £200 million. I will definitely pursue the question of wages outstanding. The Government have discussed it but as yet there is no decision on it. As I said at the outset — and perhaps I should not have gone as far as I did in view of the press reports — legal proceedings are pending. We have not been informed as yet if proceedings have been initiated.
Is the Minister saying that there are some particular matters which he still thinks might be resolved but that there are others that cannot be resolved? Does the Minister think that the question of wages might be resolved?
We will certainly look at the question of wages. Where any company go into liquidation the wages problem is normally resolved. We will certainly pursue this matter and communicate with Deputy Mac Giolla.
Now that the Minister has given a figure of £200 million — I understand that the Government are not prepared to make a commitment on the £200 million — perhaps he would be in a position to outline to this House what type of commitment the Government are prepared to make in this case?
I do not think it is a question of what commitment the Government are prepared to make but rather it is a question of what commitment the Government can make without having serious repercussions for the finances of the country. The spokesperson at the time, Deputy Jim Mitchell, also agreed that the legislation which is in place in relation to liquidation and commercial law——
It is very difficult to get it.
——would have this knock-on effect. A decision could be taken tomorrow morning and if we were not working in the best interest, that decision would be taken.
