asked the Minister for Labour if he has any plans to deal with the abuse of working hours and conditions of employment of temporary and part-time workers in the retail-commercial trades; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Part-Time Workers' Conditions.
10.
The question of the application of protective legislation to part-time workers is currently under review and I have had discussions with both the Irish Congress of Trade Unions and the Federated Union of Employers on the matter and received detailed submissions from both sides. I have also arranged for a seminar to be held on 12 May to consider the issues involved. Subsequently I will discuss the matter further with the ICTU and the FUE before deciding what action should be taken.
The conditions of employment and working hours of persons employed in the retail trade, including part-timers, are at present regulated by the Shops (Conditions of Employment) Acts, 1938 and 1942. The provisions of these and other protective enactments dating from the thirties are also being reviewed in consultation with the social partners.
Is the Minister aware of the epidemic rise in the number of employers, particularly in the retail area and especially in shops and stores, who have young people employed for up to four and five years on a temporary and part-time basis? It is total exploitation with no cover for social welfare benefits, for holidays under the Holiday (Employees) Act, 1977 and no return, in many cases, of PAYE. The biggest villains in many cases are substantial stores like Dunnes Stores and other major retail outlets.
I would prefer if no names were mentioned. There is a convention in this House that we do not refer to persons outside or to companies.
Let me refer instead then to major retail outlets in Dublin city and in the provincial towns in the Republic.
I am aware of that. For that reason in recent months, we have been involved in discussions with the FUE and the Irish Congress of Trade Unions. This seminar arose out of these discussions and it is giving a platform to employers, trade unions, legal experts, industry itself and people who have researched the areas, to put forward views. On this issue we have to implement changes because it is not acceptable that people who work for maybe ten or 20 years for less than 18 hours a week are not entitled to minimum notice, are not entitled to have recourse to the unfair dismissals legislation, have no redundancy at the end of the day, have no maternity leave and, if they work under 120 hours a month, are not entitled to the benefit of the holiday Act. This state of affairs has been allowed to go on for several years and I am totally opposed to it. I am not trying to get agreement on this issue. I am looking for a balanced view on it. I am not trying to make part-time or temporary or casual work unworkable so that people will not be able to employ people here and there for short-time work; but I am opposed to people being continually employed on a temporary part-time basis without statutory protection. They should be entitled to such.
Is the Minister aware that many of these young people, school goers for example, are asked to do these part-time jobs at weekends and very late into the night, that in many cases they are working right through Saturdays and into Sunday mornings and that the pay and conditions of employment are totally contrary to even the lowest level of pay and conditions in employment recorded in the JLCs? Will the Minister consider broadening the scope of the provisions of the child labour committees to cover these categories of workers, particularly in the retail and commercial areas.
I am aware of all those issues. I have spoken to most of the union sections, staff sections and employers involved. I am also aware — and this is something the Deputy did not mention — that some of the major employers have organised their computers so that all their employees work 17 hours 50 minutes a week and therefore are under the statutory limits. I know that if I were to up the limit to 19 hours they would move their limit to 18 hours 50 minutes a week. Therefore it is not just a simple matter of upping the threshold. It is a matter that must be carefully looked at. I have highlighted the abuses to the FUE with the organisations involved that I know of; I know there are many more smaller organisations, and I have asked them for their views. The up coming conference will be very interesting. We have done a lot of work already in this area. It involves social welfare in a major way because of the thresholds on redundancy and maternity leave. From then on we will complete our legislative review and bring proposals before the House.
I would like to draw the Minister's attention to another area where there are abuses, namely, the hairdressing industry. I would ask that the conditions of employment in that area, which are atrocious in the city, could be the subject matter of investigation.
I would prefer not to talk about any one area of industry. Under the Conditions of Employment Act, 1930 the hours of work are about 50 a week; people are not entitled to tea breaks; they work Saturday mornings, etc. The Act is hopelessly out of date and needs to be amended. The Act has been left that way for over 50 years. It is also far too complicated. In the last 12 months or so I have been going through it. I would hope that proposals we will bring forward next year will result in a far simpler up to date Act.
God knows where you and I will be then.
The Minister said that discussions are in train with the FUE and the trade union movement. Could he give an assurance that some steps will be taken to protect the rights of people who are employed by employers who are not members of the FUE? According to the circular report for the period 1984-89, 16,438 people were employed in fast food outlets. It is reasonable to assume that lots of these people are not afforded proper protection under existing legislation. I would like to know what measures the Minister intends to take so that they can enjoy conditions of employment comparable with those who work in organised workplaces.
I think I have answered that. On the industry the Deputy has mentioned, workers are covered by the two JLCs, the hotel JLC and the catering JLC. I assure Deputy Mitchell that if I am not in this place in 12 months time, I will have left a very well documented review behind me.