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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 16 May 1989

Vol. 390 No. 1

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Defence Forces Manning Levels — Recruitment.

11.

asked the Minister for Defence the number of (a) cadets and (b) other recruits it is intended to take into the Defence Forces this year in respect of the Army, Air Corps and Naval Service.

13.

asked the Minister for Defence if he has satisfied himself regarding the current manning levels of the Naval Service.

17.

asked the Minister for Defence if he intends to enlist personnel into the Defence Forces in 1989; when enlistment(s) will take place; and the number intended to be enlisted.

24.

asked the Minister for Defence if he will outline his proposals for the intake of female recruits to the Defence Forces which he referred to in his speech at the Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis; if women will be taken into all branches of the Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

28.

asked the Minister for Defence if he will give an up-to-date report on the number of persons who presented themselves for enlistment for the Naval Service during a recent recruiting drive; the number he intends to take on; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

134.

asked the Minister for Defence, in relation to the Permanent Defence Force, the number of other ranks serving on 30 April 1989 in the Army, Navy and Air Corps respectively.

135.

asked the Minister for Defence the number of women being enlisted in the Naval Service and the Air Corps; the reason the recruitment of women in these services has been restricted; the plans his Department have to rectify this situation; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

136.

asked the Minister for Defence the number of female recruits who were taken into the Army during the last recruiting drive.

(Limerick West): I propose to take Questions Nos. 11, 13, 17, 24, 28, 134, 135 and 136 together.

Recruitment to the Permanent Defence Force is being kept under review in the light of current strengths and commitments. My Department advertised in February last for a total of 110 apprentices for the Apprentice Schools at Naas and Baldonnel. My Department will also be advertising in the near future for cadetships in the Defence Forces, comprising 20 Army cadetships — 16 male and four female — 20 Air Corps cadetships and four Naval cadetships. A total of 100 personnel have been enlisted in the Naval Service to crew the vessels which were acquired in 1988 and were commissioned in January last. General recruitment has been suspended since 1981 but there have been special intakes of recruits as required to meet essential needs.

It is not possible at this stage to indicate when the next intake of recruits will take place but it is my intention that females will be included. Any such intake must have regard to general financial constraints and the overall budgetary situation.

Of the 100 Naval personnel mentioned, 58 had been found suitable for service following interviews in September 1988 and the balance were found suitable from 407 applicants who were called for interviews which were completed in January 1989. The current strength of the Naval Service is 960, of which 270 are in training. The unexpected acquisition of the Peacock class vessels has resulted in a large-scale training programme being undertaken. I am advised that the current manning levels are adequate for the Naval Service.

It is not envisaged that females will be recruited to the Air Corps and Naval Service as their non-combatant status precludes them from serving on aircraft or Naval vessels.

Could the Minister give the House an evaluation of the FCA as he sees them at present? Have they played a role in augmenting the security forces along the Border in recent years? Does he see a significant future role for them within the security forces?

(Limerick West): There appears to be a separate question down with regard to the FCA, which I will be dealing with later. This question does not refer to them at all.

There is a question here. Next question.

The Minister is refusing to answer me. It is a waste of time.

Question No. 12 is more appropriate, Deputy.

I am glad of the opportunity to ask the Minister to confirm that since 1986 there has been a drop of 384 members in the Defence Forces, if one refers to the figures which he gave to this House on 14 February last. Earlier he suggested that I was misleading the House on the basis that I suggested that there was a depletion in numbers. Would the Minister tell us what has been the trend in recruitment over the last three years?

(Limerick West): The present strength of the Defence Forces as at 30 April of this year was 11,531 members, of whom the Army were represented by 10,023, the Air Corps by 687 and the Naval Service by 821. That refers to other ranks' personnel, excluding officers.

Would the Minister accept that on 14 February of this year the Minister told the House that in 1986 there were 13,647 members, including officers, and that at December 1988 with regard to all ranks there were 13,278? Would he accept that this represents a drop of 369 soldiers, all ranks, in the last two years? Would he agree that numbers are being depleted, if he understands the ordinary meaning of the word?

(Limerick West): I am giving the Deputy information as to the situation at 30 April of this year. The requirements of the Defence Forces are being constantly monitored, keeping in mind the necessary requirements at any particular time. I am satisfied with the position.

Arising from the Minister's reply——

On a point of order, might I ask if Question No. 12 is being taken in conjunction?

No, we are coming to your question.

It is not included.

Yours is a separate question, Deputy.

(Limerick West): I am looking after the Deputy.

On the question of the number of cadets being recruited, could the Minister say if there are more cadets being taken on this year than were last year?

(Limerick West): I would say that there are more cadets being taken on this year. I do not have the exact numbers for last year, but I would say more are being taken on this year — no, it is about the same number.

Which is it?

(Limerick West): It is in or around the same number. We usually take in around 50 each year. It is in or around the same number each year. It is indicated by the requirements.

Is there an ideal level of manning in the Defence Forces and, if so, what is that level? If not, is it due to financial constraints that numbers appear to be dropping? Perhaps the Minister would help to clarify that matter. He might confirm this, that surely there should be an ideal level of manning for the Defence Forces, and he might convey that to the House.

(Limerick West): Of course, there is an ideal manning level but——

What is it?

(Limerick West): That can vary and differ at any particular time. I am being advised constantly by the military authorities as to requirements. Of course, financial stringency does come into it, also.

How far are we short of the ideal level?

(Interruptions.)

Would the Minister accept that it makes little sense to discuss recruitment without having regard to the numbers that have been leaving the Defence Forces? Would he accept that a very substantial reason for so many leaving the Defence Forces is the crisis of morale that now exists because of his stewardship? Does he feel any sense of embarrassment or shame at the fact that, for the first time in the history of the State, from senior officer level down to private, the Defence Forces throughout the State are expressing a lack of confidence in the Minister who leads them?

(Limerick West): Of course, the Deputy again is totally misrepresenting the facts. For his information, I shall tell him that for the first three months of 1988 12 officers retired from the Permanent Defence Force and 241 other ranks were discharged. For the first three months of 1989 the same number of officers retired and 229 other ranks were discharged, so there is a reduction in discharges.

The Minister has made it impossible for them to get out.

(Limerick West): The Deputy does not have the facts.

With regard to buyout conditions, the Minister has made it impossible for them to get out.

Could I deal with the aspect——

The Minister is making it impossible for them to come out.

Please desist.

There are impositions that keep them there.

Could I deal with Question No. 24 regarding the recruitment of women? Would the Minister confirm that the entire number of women likely to be recruited into the Defence Forces this year is four and that they will be cadets? How does the Minister justify the non-recruitment of females into the Naval Service and Air Corps? Would he not agree that there are many areas of work, duty and service in those two services that can be taken on which, if one were to accept the Minister's argument, would involve non-combatant duties? Would the Minister agree that it is invidious to discriminate against women, that they do not have this right and opportunity?

(Limerick West): Before I answer that question, a Cheann Comhairle, I want to correct a misconception of Deputy Connaughton's and Deputy Birmingham's. The purchase price for discharge from the Army has not been increased for a person who wants to buy himself out. Again, it just shows that the Deputies do not have the facts.

It excludes whole areas altogether.

Let the Minister ask the privates.

(Limerick West): In reply to Deputy McCartan, I want to say——

The Air Corps were the responsibility of the Minister for the Marine.

(Limerick West): There will be four females cadets taken on this year. I cannot say at this stage how many females will be taken into the regular Army because I am not quite sure as of yet when recruitment this year will take place. It has been the practice over the years that females are not taken into the Air Corps or Naval Service.

I call Question No. 12, Deputy Deasy's question.

I want to know why the Minister is giving me——

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