asked the Minister for Justice if he will make provision, when possible, to enable representatives of legal consumers, Coolock Law Centre and FLAC, to sit on the Legal Aid Board; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
9.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Legal Aid Board.
7.
asked the Minister for Justice if he has secured any additional funding for the Free Legal Aid Board as indicated in the aftermath of the passage of the Judicial Separation Bill; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 7 and 9 together.
The scheme of civil legal aid and advice provides for its administration by a board appointed by the Minister for Justice. The term of office of the current members does not expire until 23 March 1991. As and when vacancies arise, I am more than happy to consider persons for board membership from as wide a range of groups as possible.
With regard to additional funding for the board, I have already said that the effect of the remedies provided in the Judicial Separation and Family Law Reform Act, 1989, in putting extra pressure on the Legal Aid Board, will be closely monitored. The Act will not come into effect until 19 October next. The problems facing the board are under active consideration at the moment to see what can be done to relieve their difficulties.
Would the Minister not agree that the truth of the matter is that the Legal Aid Board are simply not in a position to provide anything like the service that is required, that many of the offices cannot take new cases for weeks or months, that there is an immense backlog and that they just cannot cope with the volume? Will the Minister also agree that the Minister for Justice gave a commitment after the passing of the Judicial Separation Bill that he would make a personal effort to secure additional funding for the board to enable people who wished to avail of the new separation remedies to have access to legal remedies through the Legal Aid Board? All I am asking is if the Minister has asked the Government for the extra money, and, if so, has he got it?
As the Minister said, the question is under very active consideration at the moment to see what can be done to relieve the difficulties to which the Deputy refers.
What does that mean?
I will leave it to the Deputy to interpret that for himself. The Minister could not make it any plainer than that. The Deputy is an experienced Member of this House and he should be able to interpret that.
A Cheann Comhairle——
Could I clarify that interpretation? Would I be correct in saying that no additional money has been provided for the Legal Aid Board?
The Deputy is making a statement rather than asking a question.
Is that the correct interpretation?
Deputy Pat McCartan is offering.
In tabling Question No. 7, I want to make it clear that I was casting no reflection on any member of the board with regard to the impossible task the Minister for Justice has imposed on them, by asking them to run the scheme without adequate resources, but a fact drawn to my attention at a conference in Buswells on 21 April last was that no member of the consuming public who has recourse to law centres, and no member of the Coolock Law Centre — the only properly constituted law centre — or FLAC, the students group, is represented on the Legal Aid Board. While the Minister is prepared to consider people from as wide a range of areas as possible, would he not agree that it is important to have on the board a member of the consuming public on the one hand and a representative of those who are active in delivering free legal aid services on the other? Does the Minister agree that that is a desirable objective?
The board as constituted makes provision for what might be described as lay members — there is provision for four lay members. I take it that the Deputy's intention is to include people from among the general consuming public. I will refer the Deputy's views to the Minister for future vacancies.
Would the Minister not agree that in this area the first thing to do is to relieve the free legal aid system from the public service embargo because the real difficulty is that if somebody has a long-term illness or leaves there is no replacement? Instead of talking about putting the scheme on a statutory basis we should ensure that staffing is kept at its original level. We are in the ridiculous situation that because of the pressure of work there is more illness in this area and more people are leaving or taking leave of absence.
That is a problem generally throughout the service. The Minister is very much aware of the difficulties in this case and he has the whole matter under active consideration.
A final question, Deputy Anne Colley.
Can the Minister confirm that there are plans in train to put the Legal Aid Board on a statutory basis in the near future, as has been recommended over the last number of years? Can the Minister say if there is a relationship between the reluctance to provide adequate funding for the board and the fact that it is not on a statutory basis?
There is no relationship between the two. It is true that a statutory basis is in the course of preparation at the moment.
Will the Ceann Comhairle allow me a brief supplementary on Question No. 9?
I thought I had dealt with that question overlong, Deputy. I will allow a brief question.
Given that the Department have had to deal with this issue on a vast number of occasions in the House and that we have always been told that the Minister is actively considering the position, can the Minister assist me, a Deputy who has not been in the House as long as Deputy Taylor, and tell me what that means——
We have had that question before, Deputy.
——and when we might expect——
This is clearly repetition.
I am asking when we can expect some move in this area. Are we talking about days, weeks or longer?
As soon as possible.
Come on.
Question No. 8 please.
Sorry, a Cheann Comhairle, the matter——
Order, please, Deputy McCartan. Question No. 8 please.
With the permission of the Chair, it is a matter that deserves a little more than words.
(Interruptions.)
The use of such expressions in the House is insulting to the people who work in these centres. We should know a bit more about it.
If the Deputy is dissatisfied with the Minister's reply, he has a remedy.
We are being treated shabbily.
Question No. 8.
I would have thought that on the contrary the Minister has made it very clear that he is very concerned about the matter and that he is actively considering it at the moment.
The centre is closing down.
There is no good being concerned. Do something.
These places are closing down daily. They cannot cope.
(Interruptions.)
Concern does not help. What help is his concern?
(Interruptions.)