Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 20 Jul 1989

Vol. 391 No. 7

Order of Business.

It is proposed to take Nos. 1 to 19, inclusive, together with related Supplementary Estimates.

Notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, it is also proposed that Nos. 1 to 18, inclusive, shall be taken without debate and be decided by one question; the Supplementary Estimate to which No. 16 relates shall be taken with Vote 42 for the purposes of debate and shall be decided by one question.

It is further proposed that at the conclusion of business today, the Dáil shall adjourn until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 24 October 1989.

In the Order of Business there are two matters lacking. The first is that I understand it has been agreed that we will take the necessary steps today to set up the Committee of Public Accounts but that has not been mentioned on the Order of Business.

Will the Deputy permit me to dispose of the Order of Business and then I shall facilitate him?

I am speaking of items which I believe should be in the Order of Business. Second, I should like to ask the Taoiseach if in today's Order of Business he will provide time to discuss the crisis which has emerged in relation to the so-called National Development Plan where it now appears that it is not at all certain that the country will get the £3.7 billion from the EC Structural Funds. An emergency mission of Ministers is being sent to Brussels next Monday to try to claw back——

Clearly this is not in order.

I want to know if the Taoiseach will provide on the Order of Business today for——

This is contrary to normal procedure in the House and I cannot condone it.

I am just asking if the Taoiseach will provide time for a debate on this issue.

This is completely contrary to procedure and the Deputy is aware of that.

I cannot ask to have an item included on the Order of Business if the Order of Business has been dealt with by the House?

I will facilitate the Deputy in raising matters appertaining to the Order of Business when the Chair has been facilitated in disposing of these matters.

May I, before the Chair comes to the conclusion and before he gets to the fateful announcement that we adjourn until 24 October, raise this question so that I can ask the Taoiseach if he will make time available today in the House to discuss this crisis?

That can be asked on the question which I shall be putting to the House shortly.

I thought it might help the Chair to know in advance the questions I would be asking, but I take his assurance that I can ask the questions later.

What has transpired up to now was completely out of order. I shall be glad to facilitate all Deputies when I have disposed of the Order of Business. Are the proposals for dealing with Nos. 1 to 19 agreed?

In relation to item No. 5, the motion concerning the restoration of the Child Care Bill to the Order Paper, I understood that it was intended to establish a committee of the House to deal with Committee Stage of that Bill during the recess. Will the Taoiseach clarify if it is intended to bring a motion before the House to establish that committee today? If that is not the intention I propose to oppose the resumption date and to suggest that we return earlier in mid-September, to deal with that Bill.

No, it is not intended to set up a special committee. I have considered the matter and my view is that the Bill would be better considered in a committee of the whole House.

Will the Taoiseach bring the House back earlier?

Deputy Michael D. Higgins on the Order of Business.

I do not see any reference in the listed legislation to the Fisheries (Amendment) Bill, 1987, or any proposed legislative amendments thereof. I ask the Taoiseach if, in view of the announcements which were made yesterday, it is proposed to resolve the rod licence dispute through amending legislation. This would require inclusion in the listed legislation but I notice it is missing——

I am sorry, Deputy Higgins, I would much prefer if you would raise that matter in another way.

If I might say, Sir, I have given consideration to the matter as well and I think it would be in appropriate to raise it on the Adjournment. It is, in fact, legislation which has been promised.

If the Deputy is seeking my permission to raise the matter on the Adjournment I will communicate with him.

That is not my intention because it is promised legislation.

Please, Deputy Higgins.

This is my one opportunity to ask——

I am sorry, Deputy Higgins, you must now resume your seat. You have made your point.

It is promised legislation.

(Interruptions.)

Please, Deputies, I have not disposed of this matter.

Can we not ask about legislation?

(Interruptions.)

I have put the question to the House.

It is——

I am on my feet, Deputy Higgins. Please conform to the rules of this House.

On a point of order, on the Order Paper before us this morning there are 19 items of legislation. Yesterday two Ministers, one on the radio and the other in the House, said that there would be new legislation in relation to the Fisheries (No. 2) Bill, 1987.

Restored legislation.

Deputy Higgins, like other Deputies in the House, are fuly entitled to ask the question and I believe the Taoiseach will probably answer the question, if given the opportunity.

That is all I want.

There are many ways of raising that question, Deputy.

In relation to legislation, this is the correct forum in which to raise the matter. The question has been asked and I believe we are entitled to an answer.

I am simply conforming to the normal procedure in dealing with the Order of Business. I insist on doing that.

I regret, a Cheann Comhairle, to have to depart this session by having a row with you but I believe we have rights in this House, and our rights are as follows. Legislation was promised by two Ministers in the Cabinet yesterday and the Taoiseach should surely be in a position to clarify when legislation will be introduced and the content of the legislation.

That is a question I would allow at the appropriate time.

This is the time.

I merely want to point out that the matters which Deputy Higgins referred to are simply orders to restore legislation to the Order Paper. They are not new legislation or promised legislation. My position in regard to promised legislation is to follow the precedent which has been well established in this House and on which I understand that you, a Cheann Comhairle, propose to make a statement later.

It would be helpful if an announcement was made in the House.

With regard to the restoration of Bills to the Order Paper——

Please, Deputy Shatter.

On this specific matter of the restoration of Bills to the Order Paper——

As there is no motion before the House, we cannot have a debate on this matter now.

May I ask the Taoiseach a question which might be of assistance? It will be extremely brief. Maybe the Government have omitted something from the Order Paper by accident. That is what I want to ask about. With regard to restoring legislation to the Order Paper, will the Taoiseach indicate whether the Government have, by accident, omitted the legislation relating to genetic fingerprinting, as published in the last Dáil, and whether it is intended to restore that legislation to the Order Paper? It is not included in the list before the House.

Our purpose in putting this list of Bills before the Dáil for restoration is purely to enable us to have a programme of work to get on with when we resume. This list is not necessarily exclusive. There is other legislation which will be——

Is there any particular reason that Bill was not included?

No particular reason.

Can I please dispose of business in the normal way? I will be glad to facilitate Deputies.

You are asking us to agree to the Order of Business and we are most anxious to do so if we could get an indication as to what precisely it means. Therefore, may I ask if, in the restoration of these Bills, it is to be understood that they will go back on to the Order Paper and will be taken at the Stage at which they were interrupted when the last Dáil was dissolved?

More or less.

Are the proposals for dealing with Nos. 1 to 19 agreed? Agreed. May I ask if the proposal for the Adjournment of the House is agreed?

Before you come to that point, Sir, because that is the conclusion of the Order of Business which is proposed for today, may I ask if the Taoiseach intends to make time available today to discuss the crisis which has arisen in relation to the allocation of EC Structural Funds to this country and the reason an emergency mission of three Ministers has to go to Brussels next Monday to try to sort it out? I hope they have more success than the emergency mission which went there last December in order to cobble together the figures for the budget. I should like to know first, will the Taoiseach make time available to discuss that issue in the House today and, secondly, if it is the Government's intention today to take the necessary measures to set up the Committee of Public Accounts?

With regard to the last point, the Committee of Selection has met. The names for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges and the Committee of Public Accounts have been agreed and will be announced during the course of the day. With regard to the other matter, I know that the Ceann Comhairle would rule me out of order if I were to answer the specific question——

Have a go.

——as to whether time will be provided today but lest any misinterpretation would go abroad, there is neither a crisis nor an emergency mission.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Will the Taoiseach——

We cannot debate this matter now, Deputy.

All I am asking is whether the Taoiseach will make time available today——

I have afforded Deputy Dukes every latitude to put that question.

——so that if indeed he has any good reason for saying there is neither a mission nor a crisis the rest of us can know about it, bearing in mind that there are members of this Government who were very sceptical some months ago about the national programme for development. For example, the Minister for Industry and Commerce spent about an hour and a half in this House saying how he did not believe——

Please, Deputy Dukes, this is not good enough.

We are now told we are not going to get time——

I am calling Deputy Proinsias De Rossa.

It is very disquieting——

Please, Deputy Dukes. I have called Deputy De Rossa.

Deputy Dukes needs a holiday.

On the proposal to adjourn until 24 October, I wish to propose that that be altered to 12 September. I indicated earlier I was disappointed that the Taoiseach has decided not to establish a special committee to deal with the Child Care Bill which has been on the floor of this House since 1985. It is appalling that it is going to be delayed yet again, and possibly not even dealt with before the end of this year if the programme we have before us is anything to go by. I propose that this House should return to 12 September to deal especially with the Child Care Bill. I might point out that the date I am proposing is one which was proposed last year by the Progressive Democrats.

I note the Deputy's amendment——

On a point of information. I should like to assure Deputy De Rossa that that Bill will receive priority. It will be dealt with immediately on resumption and I am quite certain will be put through before the Christmas recess.

Deputy Alan Shatter, on the resumption date.

On the proposal to adjourn the House this evening and the date given, may I ask the Taoiseach before the House adjourns this evening, that in the light of ongoing reports concerning an investigation into An Bord Pleanála and the grave implications for the integrity of the planning process and doubts which might arise as to the validity of planning permissions granted——

Please, Deputy Shatter, the question before the House is simply the date of resumption. The Deputy is bringing in extraneous matter.

I merely asked whether the Taoiseach will arrange for the Minister for the Environment today, before the House adjourns, to make an urgent statement of clarification on this matter, to indicate to the House the parameters of the investigation which are under way and the possible implications of the investigation.

I note the amendment in the name of Deputy De Rossa that the date "24 October 1989" be substituted by the date "12 September 1989". I am now putting the question: "That the date proposed to be deleted stand".

Question put.

Deputies

Vótáil.

Will the Members who claim a division please rise?

Deputies Mac Giolla, De Rossa, McCartan, Sherlock, Gilmore, Rabbitte, Gregory, Kemmy and Garland rose.

As fewer than ten Members have risen, I declare the question carried. The amendment is lost.

The names of Members dissenting will be recorded in the Journal of Proceedings of the Dáil.

Yesterday in the course of the Order of Business and in response to queries from a number of Members I undertook to make a statement in relation to promised legislation.

Standing Order No. 25 provides, inter alia, that the Taoiseach announces the order in which Government business is taken each day. There is no motion before the House and no room for debate. My predecessors have ruled that on the Order of Business the only questions which may be permitted must relate first to the business of the day, secondly, to the taking of other business on the Order Paper, thirdly, the taking of business which has been promised and which therefore can be anticipated and, fourthly arrangements for sittings. The Chair has consistently ruled that he cannot and will not accept matters being raised on the Order of Business which are not relevant.

Deputy Seán Barrett asked when it was proposed to introduce promised legislation in relation to the establishment of a new civil court of appeal. The proposed legislation is referred to in the Fianna Fáil-Progressive Democrats Programme for Government 1989-1993 In The National Interest. I have consulted the ruling of my predecessors in this matter of promised legislation and I find that on 30 November 1983 the then Ceann Comhairle ruled as follows:

It is in order to ask about proposals for legislation on the Order Paper. It is also in order to ask about legislation that has been promised in the House by the Government but not beyond that.

I intend to uphold that ruling. In so far as I am concerned the legislation must be promised in the House. I may say, however, that parliamentary questions and indeed motions in relation to specific proposals for legislation can be tabled by Members irrespective of whether such proposals were made inside or outside the House.

There should be a public health warning on statements made outside the House.

I wish to ask the Minister for Communications if he will make a statement to the House on the sale of Cablelink. He has refused to do so in the past on the basis that any discussions he had were of an informal nature. Now that he has had formal discussions, does he not think that the time is right to make such a statement?

I allowed the Deputy some latitude in the matter.

Is the Minister going to make a statement?

In the interests of the good order of this House I would like clarification on one aspect of your ruling. Does it mean that announcements made by members of the Government outside of this House as regards promised legislation or that any agreements entered into outside this House by members of the Government, which contain promises to produce legislation, should be given no credibility by either the general public or by Members of this House?

Please, Deputy Shatter, the statement is crystal clear. Deputy Proinsias De Rossa.

It appears to confine the work of the House in a manner that I have not seen it to be confined since I entered this House.

If the Deputy wishes to change the rulings there are ways and means open to him.

I wish to raise on the Adjournment the question of the deteriorating situation in Namibia and the need for this House to agree to the attendance of a parliamentary delegation in Namibia in early November to watch the election process there.

I will communicate with the Deputy.

Is the Taoiseach aware that in this House yesterday evening an offer was made by the Fine Gael Party to accommodate a sitting of the House either this evening, tomorrow or next week to deal with legislation to amend the Fisheries Act, 1987? Will he tell the House when the Government intend publishing such amending legislation and if he is prepared to do so within the next ten days?

I have given the Deputy some latitude. This matter has been raised earlier.

It is promised legislation.

It was raised in the House yesterday.

I wish to raise on the Adjournment the continuing crisis that affects civil legal aid centres, particularly the centres which are closed temporarily and the centre in Galway.

I will communicate with the Deputy.

I thank you for your statement, Sir. As Chairman of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, I would ask you to make arrangements that some time be made available each day so that the public can see that this assembly is relevant and that the situation will not arise where everyone in the street will be talking about a problem and the only place you cannot talk about it is in here.

I suggest that the Deputy take steps to have that matter introduced at the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, through his own members on that committee.

May I ask the Minister for Agriculture and Food when he intends to introduce the necessary legislation to provide for the setting up of a national milk agency, something he promised in the last Dáil?

It has not been promised by any member of this Government in this House.

The Taoiseach is disowning yet another Minister.

That legislation was promised by the Minister previously in this House in reply to a parliamentary question.

I am sure the Deputy will find ways of following up that matter.

There is no other way.

I wish to raise on the Adjournment the obvious problems confronting the Government in relation to the EC Structural Funds.

I will communicate with the Deputy in connection with that matter.

I wish to raise on the Adjournment, along with some of my other colleagues from Dún Laoghaire, the future position of Carysfort College and particularly the desirability to maintain it as an educational facility in the borough.

I will be in touch with the Deputy concerning that matter.

Yesterday you ruled out of order my Private Notice Question on the sale of Irish Steel. Could I now seek your permission to raise this matter on the Adjournment today?

I will be in touch with the Deputy concerning that matter.

I wish to raise on the Adjournment the matter of the collapse of the manufacture of casein in this country, resulting from a lack of Government or EC subvention, which has caused job losses in many of the assembly plants, including Miloko in Carrick-on-Suir.

I will communicate with the Deputy.

I wish to raise on the Adjournment the question of the setting up of a national milk agency.

I will be in touch with the Deputy.

May I again seek to raise on the Adjournment the question of the waiting list at the Royal Victoria Eye and Ear Hospital? There are children whose hearing is being impaired because their problems are not being dealt with while in excess of 600 senior citizens are losing their sight for the want of cataract operations which, I understand, cost only about £600 per operation.

I will communicate with the Deputy.

I wish to raise on the Adjournment, and to seek clarification of the conflicting views of Ministers on the failed rod licence issue, in view of what we heard yesterday on the radio and what you announced here this morning about matters that can be taken and legislation that has been promised. In regard to a reply which I received from the Minister for the Marine on Tuesday——

I want to help Deputy McCormack. He need not elaborate now. I will be in touch with him concerning his request for an Adjournment debate.

It relates to Question No. 10 on Tuesday's Order Paper.

I understand, Deputy.

I wish to take this opportunity to congratulate my colleagues in west Galway who have been elevated to the Cabinet. There are only myself and Deputy Michael D. Higgins left now.

Will the Minister for Communications make a statement on the undue delay in issuing a licence for local radio in the Cavan-Monaghan area? A period of more than 13 weeks has elapsed——

The Deputy can find another way of raising that matter.

Would the Minister not make a statement?

Please, Deputy Boylan, desist.

Would he not?

I would like to join with Deputy Barnes in seeking your permission to raise on the Adjournment the sale of Carysfort College which is due to be completed by 14 September which is well in advance——

I will communicate with the Deputy.

With your permission, I wish to raise on the Adjournment the question of the construction of Jobstown community college. After three years this was promised during the election campaign by the Minister for Education, belatedly but none the less welcome. Now I understand there are problems surrounding the construction and I would like to raise it——

I will be in touch with the Deputy concerning the matter.

Will the Minister for Agriculture inform the House when he intends to announce the extension of the scheme to disadvantaged areas?

The Deputy knows full well that is not in order now.

That is an easy question.

(Interruptions.)

My colleague will deal with it.

Top
Share