Deputy John Bruton gave me notice of his intention to raise on the Adjournment the subject matter appertaining to the operation of the higher education grants as they affect County Limerick students attending UCD.
Adjournment Debate. - Higher Education Grants.
I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity of raising this matter which is urgent. I was informed this morning by the parent of a student from County Limerick who has applied for, and is eligible for, a higher education grant that registration of this student and others in University College Dublin had to be put back on a number of occasions in this term because notification had not come through to University College Dublin that Limerick County Council had, under the terms of the Higher Education Act, approved students and in particular this student — for a higher education grant. In the absence of communication from Limerick County Council to the effect that these students were eligible for a grant, the college was unable to register them, unless the students paid the fees out of their own pockets. Given that the means limits for qualification for higher education grants are extremely low, in some, and probably most cases, the students would not be able to pay these fees out of their own pockets, even if they knew they would eventually be refunded, because they would not have the cash available.
I raise the matter urgently in this way because I understand a decision has to be taken on the matter and arrangements made specially to deal with it before Friday because that is the final date for registration of students generally. I would be interested if the Minister could let me know in her reply to this debate whether this problem is first as I have described and, secondly, if it arises in any other counties. It seems to be a matter of quite serious concern that county councils should leave students in a position of not knowing for such a long time whether they qualify for grants or not.
The provision of the higher education grants are laid out by each county council in accordance generally with a specimen scheme laid down by the Minister. The clause dealing with this matter is clause 7 which states that the appropriate lecture fee will be paid by the relevant local authority in advance of registration — registration in this case is Friday — to the institution concerned in respect of eligible students on receipt of invoice for the lecture fee from the appropriate third level college.
I would like to know where communications have broken down between this county council and the university and whether the Minister will make arrangements not only to deal with the matter before Friday but to ensure that this sort of problem does not recur, because it is extremely distressing for students to find themselves in this position. I appreciate the fact that the Minister is here in person and I hope she will be able to deal comprehensively and satisfactorily with the matter.
Let me, first of all, apologise to you, a Cheann Comhairle, and Deputy Bruton for my late arrival. This was due to my having to go and get more up-to-date and relevant information. I also thank Deputy Bruton for raising this matter and congratulate him on his appointment. I look forward to having many more debates with him in the future.
The position is exactly that outlined by Deputy Bruton. In the course of giving the information which I have just received I will outline how it was arrived at and the steps we have now taken. This has been a recurring problem, of a minimalist nature, in some counties during the past few years and to obviate it various steps were taken. In the course of the summer officials of the Department of Education secured the agreement of the County and City Managers Association, in full meetings, to an arrangement governing the payment of lecture fees for first time entrants. This arrangement was, naturally, agreed with the third level institutions, including University College, Dublin. The objective was to put our house in order.
The effect of this arrangement was conveyed, as Deputy Bruton correctly said, in clause 7 (a) of the 1989 higher education grant scheme, the details of which are available to everybody. We held meetings and made an arrangement to obviate the difficulty about which Deputy Bruton has spoken and informed the colleges of this arrangement.
The Department only became aware today of the difficulty which exists between Limerick County Council and UCD. So far it is confined to UCD. Apparently, UCD require the county council to provide a list of grant applicants proposing to enter UCD in 1989-90 so that UCD may invoice them. This requirement appears to be the cause of misunderstanding between Limerick County Council and UCD. Why it should be the cause of misunderstanding between that local authority and that third level college is at this point a bit of a mystery. Officials of my Department were in contact today with UCD and Limerick County Council with a view to facilitating the resolution of any difficulties. UCD have indicated that students generally are not put at a disadvantage and will continue to attend lectures pending the resolution of any difficulty relating to registration. If difficulties persist up to this Friday, UCD will point out that there is a further late registration day on 6 November. I do not think that is good enough.
It is not.
I will come back to that point in a few moments. We understand that Limerick County Council will provide — tomorrow, I suppose — conditional letters of grant approval to students who request them. I have to emphasise that this was one of the steps we were taking in an effort to smooth out difficulties which had appeared in other years. The Department took action in the summer to prevent further difficulties this year which had arisen in other years. As Deputy Bruton is aware, day-to-day administration of the higher education grant scheme is entrusted by statute to local authorities. We hope they will put their house in order particularly when practical solutions are put in their way. As I say, it is a mystery why only one college and one county council are involved. Whether there was a misconception on the part of a particular person in one of the offices I do not know but the Department are now actively involved, thanks to the Deputy's good offices, and have been in contact with UCD and Limerick County Council to iron out the difficulties which have come to light.
What I am saying to you, a Cheann Comhairle, Deputy Bruton, and the House is that I am not happy that it is going to be conditional on Friday or the following Friday and I intend tomorrow morning to point out to UCD and Limerick County Council that they both have a statutory obligation to immediately deal with this small number of pupils. To the student who has been put out, and to the parents, it is the most major thing in their life. Therefore, I intend to have this matter put on a much more firm footing and find a solution to the difficulty tomorrow.
Can the Minister give any assurance that this sort of difficulty will not occur next year or the year after?
It has been recurring during the past ten years. In an effort to obviate it we took various steps. This is what you get for being smart.
With all due respects, the Minister has not succeeded.
In the past five or six years it has been far less of a problem. I thank the Deputy for raising this matter in the House and I intend to become personally involved in the morning.
Will the Minister let me know the result?
I will.
The Dáil adjourned at 9.25 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 26 October 1989.