asked the Taoiseach if he has any plans to meet the ICTU before the Special Delegate Conference of Congress in January, 1990; if he accepts the thrust of the Congress submission A New Phase for the Programme for National Recovery — Sharing the Benefits; the elements of the Congress submission which are to be given priority by Government for the remainder of the lifespan of the programme; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions Oral Answers. - Programme for National Recovery.
2.
I met representatives of the Executive Council of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions on 24 November 1989 accompanied by the Ministers for Finance, Industry and Commerce and Labour.
We agreed at that meeting that the recommendations made by Congress in the area of tax reform and social welfare would be considered by the Government in the context of the 1990 Budget.
We also agreed that the other issues raised by Congress would be considered at official level with the objective of a further meeting between Congress and the Government before the budget.
Does the Taoiseach accept it is the thrust of the thirty point programme submitted to him by the ICTU entitled Sharing the Benefits that workers have not shared in the benefits that have accrued in the economy as a result of their wage restraint, and that at a time when profits are spiralling at a rate we have not seen previously, workers are not sharing in those profits? Let me ask him about his commitment to tax reform. We know about the commitment to the 25 per cent base rate ultimately, but I am referring to the specific demand of the ICTU. Is he in sympathy with the demand of the ICTU to broaden the tax base to include companies, the self-employed, professionals, farmers and so on, so that the burden on PAYE workers can be reduced?
We will be meeting the ICTU again about these matters before the budget. I would like to point out to the Deputy that statistics show clearly that, apart from the general benefits which flow to the economy and therefore enrich workers' participation, the take home pay of workers and employees generally increased during the period in which the national economic programme has been in operation by between 3 per cent and 7 per cent. I cannot understand what the Deputy is talking about when he refers to tax reform which would extend taxation to companies, the self-employed and professional classes. Very considerable extensions have been made in all these areas by this Government and their predecessors. In particular I would remind the Deputy that we have extended an effective tax régime for the first time to the self-employed and the farming community.
I am disappointed if I am to take it that the Taoiseach has no intention of increasing the tax take from the categories I referred to. If he had to pay a mortage he would appreciate that the pay increases he referred to are not in line with——
I do not know why the Deputy misinterprets what I say. I did not say I had no intention of extending anything anywhere.
Let me ask the Taoiseach whether in respect of a category who do not receive wages he intends to respond to the ICTU demand for a timetable to phase in the introduction of the commission's report on social welfare.
The Deputy is perhaps raising a number of extraneous matters.
It would be very helpful and would betray a great deal of maturity if the Deputy would leave these matters to be discussed between the Government and the ICTU. We have a very satisfactory, amicable, co-operative, constructive relationship and the Deputy can quite safely leave these matters to be discussed between us in the excellent spirit we have developed between us.
Deputy Jim Mitchell.
(Interruptions.)
Deputy Mitchell has been called. Deputy Rabbitte, please obey the Chair.
In view of the figures produced by the CSO recently about the total numbers at work, will the Taoiseach agree that, whatever about the merits of the Programme for National Recovery, it has not led to an increase in the total numbers at work and that one of the principal causes is a series of official policies which are not related to each other? First, the cost of putting £1 in a worker's pocket is about three times that £1 and this is much greater than in any other country in Europe. Therefore, will the Taoiseach agree that the thrust of the remaining phase of this programme must be to get all those official policies which are inhibiting jobs out of the way, bearing in mind that the increase in output that has taken place in the past three years——
I have to dissuade Members from the notion that they may debate this matter now. It may not be debated now.
The Deputy is invading very interesting territory and I would not attempt to deal with all the issues he opens up in his question. However, I say to him that all the present indications are that there is a considerable turn round in the employment situation, though I have said on a number of occasions, and I know the Deputy will agree with me, that our real problem now is to translate economic growth into jobs. The Deputy may not have noticed that I indicated recently that we intend to invoke the expertise of the Commission in Brussels because they have offered it, and to study that aspect of the problem. Apart from that, he will have seen forecasts which indicate that there will be a considerable increase this year in the number of people at work, and an even bigger increase next year.
We were told that last year and the year before and it did not happen.
I am only saying that the ESRI's recent report indicated there will be an increase of 11,000 jobs in 1989 and 19,000 in 1990. I am not saying they are quantitatively satisfactory but I am saying they indicate a trend in the right direction. Let me say before he intervenes that I accept also the Deputy's argument that it is important not just to try to create jobs in the sectors by specific measures but to try to eliminate the things that are preventing or inhibiting the creation of employment.
I hope the Taoiseach will not be over complacent with the ESRI figures given the large redundancy figures being returned every year and the still high levels of emigration. I take it from his initial reply that the subjects of tax reform and social welfare as discussed with the ICTU are to be looked at in the context of the budget. I understand from the ICTU that job creation must be given priority. Is this so? Perhaps the Taoiseach will outline exactly what he is doing in terms of giving job creation priority.
We are trying to tackle the problem of job creation on all available fronts. The Deputy will have seen, for instance, that I met the chief executives of the more relevant State bodies and discussed with them how they can help to create employment either within their own core business or in diversified projects. Of course, we have the all out efforts of the three major employment creating agencies, the IDA, SFADCo and Údarás na Gaeltachta, and in specific areas of the economy sectors which offer potential for employment. We are by positive intervention endeavouring to bring forward employment in these areas such as tourism, the food industry and so on.
(Limerick East): I am sure the Taoiseach will agree it is in everybody's interest that low nominal wages negotiated will lead to actual increases and rewards for everybody at work. Taking into account the high profitability of some companies, will the Taoiseach seek to bring to the negotiating table schemes where workers could acquire share options and share in the profits of highly profitable companies so that low nominal wages will lead to significant rewards for all workers? Will the Taoiseach take that up with the employers and the union side as part of the renegotiation programme?
I am all in favour of that. As the Deputy knows, we have some encouragement and incentives for that sort of development, but I must acknowledge there has been no great movement.
(Limerick East): They are very inadequate.
I think the Deputy introduced some of them, did he not?
He introduced all of them.
I am not criticising them.
(Limerick East): There is nothing there——
I am saying efforts have been made. Obviously we will have to see if they cannot be more effective.
One of the points in the 30 point submission concerns a review of industrial policy. When will the review of industrial policy the Taoiseach committed himself to a couple of weeks ago be completed?
I am not sure when it will be completed, but it is well under way.