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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 13 Dec 1989

Vol. 394 No. 5

Adjournment Debate. - Tallaght Second Level Education.

I want to thank you, a Cheann Comhairle, for having allowed me the opportunity to raise this important matter on behalf of so many people in my constituency. It is generally accepted on all sides of the House that the new towns on the west side of Dublin have been disgracefully under-provided for in terms of resources. However, citizens in many parts of Tallaght, for example, have thrived despite official neglect and, through their tenacity and persistence over the years, have gradually shaped vigorous, forward-looking communities.

In the case of Kingswood and Kilnamanagh the capacity of the people to realise their full potential, to consolidate an indigenous community spirit is being hampered and obstructed by the scandalous failure of successive Governments, over ten years, to provide the area with a second-level school. Towards the end of the seventies, and especially throughout the eighties, parents in this enormously populous area have had to make arrangements to bus their children to several outside schools.

I should like to avail of this opportunity to put the refusal to build this second-level school at Kilnamanagh/Kingswood in Tallaght in the context of the huge population of that area where there are more than 3,000 houses and a population of almost 20,000. Where in Ireland is there a town of almost 20,000 people, with more than 3,000 primary-level school children in the care of 80 primary teachers, without a second-level school? Up to 1,000 children per day will have to be bussed out of Kilnamanagh/Kingswood to 17 outside schools if this second-level school is not built. Let us put that in the context of a town like Tralee with a population of 16,495, or Clonmel — as the Ceann Comhairle will know — with a population in excess of 12,000. One may well ask how many second-level schools are there in the Clonmel area? If one compares the population of, say, Thurles, 7,059 or, say, Letterkenny, 6,691, then one can readily appreciate the enormity of the problem obtaining in Tallaght.

I am indeed sorry that the Minister herself is not present because I should like to have asked her about Athlone which has a population of 9,444. The area about which I speak has a population of almost 20,000, the majority of whom are at family-formation stage and where there is not a single second-level school. I should like to have had the opportunity to ask the Minister how many second-level schools there are in Athlone. I can recollect two readily. Are there more than two; say three or four, in an area with half the population of Kilnamanagh/Kingswood? This is a disgraceful position that cannot be allowed continue. Does the Minister appreciate those numbers? In the opinion of the Minister for Education do the children of Kilnamanagh/Kingswood have a lesser right to education than her constituents in Athlone? Does the Minister consider it proper that many parents in Kilnamanagh/Kingswood must bear additional transport costs compared with, say, her constituents in Athlone? Does the Minister consider that such a large community should be disrupted in this manner for so long?

I would like to refer to the fact that if this school was opened in 1990 there would immediately be 300 local children from the sixth grade available for enrolement in September. For every year thereafter for the five year cycle there would be an additional 300 new pupils, giving 1,500 pupils at the end of the five year cycle in that school. The people of the area are not looking for a school to cater for 1,500 pupils; they are looking for a school to cater for 800 pupils, which means that up to 700 children would still have to get buses out of Kilnamanagh-Kingswood. The statistics have been assembled by the local people, the families are young, and the projections are that there will be more than enough pupils to almost twice fill such an 800 pupil school.

I sometimes think that when the Minister glibly talks about other areas of Tallaght beginning to show signs of winding down demographically she knows nothing about the distances involved in a place like Tallaght. It is nonsense to suggest to over 3,000 householders in Kingswood-Kilnamanagh that they may in future have access to some places in a school five, six or seven miles away in another part of Tallaght.

Ever since the mid-seventies the Kilnamanagh-Kingswood area has been promised a second level school. The present Minister for Education espoused the cause of the local people when she was spokesperson on Education for Fianna Fáil. Eventually a commitment was extracted from the then Minister for Education, Mr. Paddy Cooney, to build a school at the end of the period of office of the 1983-87 Government. In 1987 Fianna Fáil were returned to office and the school was stopped despite the promises of the local Fianna Fáil organisation to the people in the area. Indeed the Minister protested — I had anticipated that she would be in the House but I did not want to embarrass her with quotations from her contribution — about the desperate need for the school during her time in Opposition.

The Minister for Education is not the only Minister who has betrayed the parents of Kilnamanagh-Kingswood on this issue. As recently as the debate of 7 December 1988, Deputy Mary Harney claimed that the Department had acquired two sites for the school and that design fees of up to £250,000 had been committed. She supported the cause of the local people and demanded that an announcement should be made soon. She warned that 1,000 children would have to get buses out of Kilnamanagh-Kingswood if the school was not built. Deputy Harney is now Minister in this Government but the children of Kilnamanagh-Kingswood still have not got their school and, even worse, they have to get buses in the early morning in the terrible conditions of smog that now exist in the Tallaght region. The Minister for smog is as ineffectual in tackling the smog problem as she was——

The Minister should be referred to by her appropriate title as laid down in the Standing Orders of this House.

The junior Minister at the Department of the Environment——

The Minister of State at the Department of the Environment.

The Minister of State at the Department of the Environment is as ineffectual in that area as she is in delivering on her promise to the people of Kingswood-Kilnamanagh.

There is a distinction in this case. The construction of this school is the policy of Dáil Éireann. On 7 December 1988 a Workers' Party amendment was put to this House to have that school built and it was carried with the support of Fianna Fáil, indeed with the unanimous support of this House. The Minister is not only ignoring the needs of the people of Kilnamanagh-Kingswood; she is flouting a decision of Dáil Éireann that this school should be built. Indeed my own colleague, Councillor Don Tipping, at Dublin County Council was successful in ensuring that the site was not made derelict. It is still there while we wait for the Minister to act on the decision of the Dáil to build this school.

In the Programme for National Recovery the Government committed themselves to doing what they could to ensure that children would be retained in second and third level education in so far as the resources would permit. Dublin has the lowest retention rate of children in second and third level education. If the Government were really serious about that commitment they would build adequate second level schools in the community so that the people would not have to endure the additional costs, distress and disturbance that parents in Kilnamanagh and Kingswood have had to bear for so long.

Deputy Rabbitte might now please bring his speech to a close.

I will do that by merely asking the Minister to make a commitment here tonight to give a time-table as to when the saga of Kilnamanagh-Kingswood school can be terminated and when the school be will constructed and opened.

I wish to apologise for the absence of the Minister this evening who is in Brussels on EC business. As the Deputy is aware, it is my Department's policy to monitor carefully developments in all areas of Dublin which have been expanding over the past ten to 20 years. This is especially true in the case of the Tallaght area generally where the Department have an excellent record in the matter of provision of educational facilities at primary and post primary levels.

In dealing with Castleview I must also mention the adjoining area of Kilnamanagh. It was originally felt by my Department that two schools might be required — one in Kilnamanagh and the other in Castleview. Accordingly two sites, one in each area, were acquired. On the recommendation of the Dublin Advisory Council for Post Primary Accommodation, my Department decided in May 1977 that a 1,000 pupil school would be required in Kilnamanagh in 1983-84. No decision was taken on the provision of a school at Castleview. The Department have had doubts about the need for a school at Kilnamanagh to cater for that area alone since 1980. While the numbers leaving primary school in Kilnamanagh are growing there is a major decline in the numbers of primary school leavers in the adjoining Greenhills and Walkinstown areas. In 1983 the then Minister, Gemma Hussey, decided that the proposed school for Kilnamanagh should be deferred.

I would like to correct a number of gross inaccuracies in what Deputy Rabbitte has said about the need to transport children for up to five and six miles. There is no necessity to do that and I am surprised Deputy Rabbitte is not aware of that fact.

I am perfectly aware of it.

As well as the site in Kilnamanagh, the Department own a site in Castleview which is further west and closer to the Belgard area of Tallaght. Local interest groups in the Kilnamanagh and Castleview areas joined together to lobby for one school to be built on the Castleview site to serve the two areas. This question was discussed by the Advisory Council on Post-Primary Accommodation for the Greater Dublin area at their meeting on 17 April 1986. The council decided that the post-primary accommodation position in the Tallaght area should be examined in detail by a subcommittee of the council. The subcommitte's report was considered at a full meeting of the council on 3 December 1986. Arising from their discussion on that date the council's recommendation to the Minister was that a post-primary school should be provided in Castleview to serve the needs of the Castleview/ Kilnamanagh area and also to take surplus pupils from the Springfield area.

On 16 June 1987 the Minister decided that a post-primary school for north Tallaght should be provided in Castleview on the site owned by the Department and to accommodate about 600 pupils. In March 1988 a review of policy for the provision of new and replacement accommodation for primary and second level schools was completed by an interdepartmental committee consisting of officials of the Departments of Education and Finance. A crucial recommendation contained in the review was that:

In major urban areas, where there are no defined catchment areas, consideration of an application from any school or area for new, extended or improved accommodation shall have regard to the accommodation situation, actual and projected within reasonable access of the particular school or area. In this context and in the light of the school transport provisions, a distance of three miles is not considered unreasonable.

The most recent review of the Castle-view-Kilnamanagh area, completed last April, has concluded that there are sufficient pupil places available at present in schools in areas within a reasonable distance of the Kilnamanagh/Castleview areas to cater for post-primary pupils from those areas.

That is not true.

I know Deputy Rabbitte does not like to deal in facts. He is dealing in fiction much of the time but I think it is important that he should listen to the facts on this occasion.

We will see what the parents think of that comment.

I appreciate that some parents will be concerned that they may be unable to get their children into the school of their choice. However, my Department's main function in this matter is to ensure that overall there are sufficient places available in post-primary schools which are readily accessible. The needs of the pupils in the Kilnamanagh/Castleview and adjoining areas will of course continue to be carefully monitored in my Department on a regular basis and appropriate action will be taken as necessary.

I want to refer very briefly to a number of points the Deputy has made. He talked about the Minister glibly giving statistics and so on. If our Department had proceeded with the construction of post-primary schools, as had been recommended ten years ago, we would have been accused of gross negligence in the expenditure of public moneys. It annoys me a little to hear Workers' Party Deputies coming in here day after day telling us that we should build schools here, there and everywhere around the country without any cognisance of where exactly the money is to come from. I would put it to Deputy Rabbitte that it is incumbent on him as a Deputy in this House to remember that the most important prerogative of all politicians at present is that we spend taxpayers money carefully. To spend on the demands of interest groups in every area would be grossly negligent of us.

You have a duty to the children of Kilnamanagh/Kingswood.

It would be grossly negligent of us to engage in that kind of public expenditure at the expense of the loss of investment moneys which are vital to economic growth and development.

That is what you think of the children in Kilnamanagh/Kingswood.

Let us hear the Minister out.

I would remind Deputy Rabbitte that his case comes from a philosophical background where you spend money ad lib and create a banana republic as we have seen in other countries, most notably in Eastern Europe. I would put it to Deputy Rabbitte and indeed to his Workers' Party colleagues who glibly call day after day for public expenditure——

The Minister will not be too happy with this speech.

Please, Deputy Rabbitte.

——without any cognisance of proper planning or of taxpayers' money being utilised properly——

You will lose a second seat in Tallaght now.

I am not worried about losing seats.

Please, Deputy Rabbitte, no more interruptions.

The one prerogative of Deputy Rabbitte and his colleagues is to get up here to lecture——

How many second level schools are there in Gort?

Deputy Rabbitte must restrain himself and allow the Minister to conclude. He has only moments remaining.

Gort is only one-tenth the size of Tallaght and there is a second level school there.

Deputy Rabbitte, I insist——

I know Deputy Rabbitte does not like listening to facts but the most important prerogative of this Government is to engage in investment which will produce jobs for our young people.

They have to get education first.

In doing that we must be very careful that we do not engage in some of the semantics we have heard from Deputy Rabbitte here this evening. I want to assure this House that there are adequate post-primary places available for children in the Castleview area, within a very reasonable distance and with an adequate transport service. I am quite satisfied that my Department are ensuring that the children of this area are being treated equally with the children in any other part of the country.

The Dáil adjourned at 11.05 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 14 December 1989.

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