With your permission, I would like to share my time with Deputy Higgins who represents Mayo-East.
Adjournment Debate. - Castlebar, Mayo, Third Level Education.
Is that agreed? Agreed.
I thank the Ceann Comhairle for giving permission to raise this matter on the Adjournment. I also wish to thank the Minister for Education for taking an interest and having the commitment to come in to the House to give her reply.
I do not want to go through the background of the necessity for regional technical colleges, but I want to give some of the facts in relation to the background of the proposal. The case for a regional college in Castlebar has dragged on for over 20 years and various Ministers and politicians have made statements about it in those years.
On 17 December 1981 the then Minister for Education, former Deputy John Boland said:
The question of providing such a facility to serve Castlebar and the adjoining region has separately been raised with me some time ago and, as a result, I wish to reiterate my commitment to the provision of such a facility in Castlebar.
In response to a parliamentary question on 17 February 1983 the then Minister for Education, former Deputy Hussey, said she was aware of the decision of her predecessor and that she was satisfied as to the validity and strength of the case for a regional technical college in Castlebar. From that time on all inquiries and representations in regard to the establishment of an RTC in Castlebar were answered on the basis that all such projects were being considered in the context of the third level investment programme which was to be brought out soon afterwards. Paragraph 7.85 of Building on Reality stated, among other things:
New regional technical colleges in Tallaght, Dún Laoghaire and Blanchardstown and the commencement of planning of new colleges in Thurles and Castlebar have also been proposed. Subject to further examination of the need for each project and to availability of capital, as many as possible of these projects will be commenced in the plan period.
On 16 May 1985 the Department of Finance issued formal sanction to commence planning and design of the Castlebar and Thurles projects. On 7 June 1985 the then Minister for Education announced the go ahead for Castlebar and Thurles and a team of architects, services engineers and structural engineers were appointed on 28 June 1985. The college proposed for Castlebar was to cater for 800 students at an estimated cost of about £9 million.
The proposals for a schedule of courses and numbers were discussed with the County Mayo VEC at that time. Suffice it to say that the Department confirmed on 6 February 1987 as follows:
I confirm the Department's agreement to purchase 18 to 20 acres of land adjacent to Davitt House on the main Castlebar-Claremorris road.
Castlebar Urban District Council, on 12 March 1987, passed a formal motion proposing that the relevant land in their possession would also be made available. Financial sanction to purchase the site was granted on 28 January 1987 and signed by the then Minister for Finance, Deputy Bruton.
On 15 January this year the acting county manager stated: "As requested I wish to confirm that this land is available if it is required by the Department of Education as a site for the proposed Regional Technical College". The Fine Gael Party Leader, Deputy Alan Dukes, confirmed the following on 18 December in writing:
My view of the priorities in relation to the provision of RTCs remains unchanged. Sanction has now been given to proceed with the Tallaght College: that means that the Castlebar project is number one on the priority list. I take a very strong view that work should begin on this at the earliest possible moment, because the need for the college has been established beyond any doubt.
I am a realist and I know the Minister has a great number of difficulties in her Department but I would like to ask her across the floor of the House if she would be prepared, through the normal channels, to meet a formal deputation of the VEC, together with Members of the Oireachtas and various interested organisations, in order that we may put proposals before her. It might then be possible for her to give approval to some third level courses which could be run in existing accommodation which is available in the town and in that way the Department could show their continued commitment to the regional college.
We are not just talking about the provision of any college. When one considers the proportionate growth of Tralee, Athlone, Carlow, Dundalk or Letterkenny, relative to the RTCs, in this case we are talking about the economic salvation of a county, approximately 2,000 of whose students now attend third level colleges outside the county. The Minister will be well aware of the distances involved. The number attending second level schools in Mayo is over 2,300 and on an annual basis 2,000 to 2,500 students attend third level education outside the county. There is a social, economic, educational and industrial argument to be made for this college. I would like to think that not alone would the Minister approve courses but that the commitment for the college will not die. The land which was so sought after and took a very long time to acquire is still, and will be, available if the Minister requires it in future. I would ask her to consider this most important issue for our county.
I would like to thank my colleague, Deputy Enda Kenny, for agreeing to share his time with me. This is not alone a county issue in Mayo but a regional issue. In Mayo we are not just looking for a regional technical college in a watered-down sense; we are looking for a fully-fledged regional technical college. The Minister's intransigence in this regard thus far is all the more incomprehensible when one considers the shortage of supply of third level places in certain faculty areas. For example, there is only one college in the country currently training opticians, that is the College of Technology in Kevin Street, Dublin, which last year took in 16 such students. This is a high growth area when one takes into consideration cosmetic opticians as well. There is enormous scope in that area. At present there is only one college in the country training pharmacists, that is Trinity College Dublin which took in only 50 such students last year. Again, there is enormous scope in that area.
Mayo has a particularly high level of pharmaceutical industries. For example, there is Asahi in Killala, Baxter in Castlebar and Swinford and Hollister in Ballina. It seems that Mayo has the essential basic pharmaceutical infrastructure which could be in ideal partnership with a pharmacy faculty at a new third level college. The potential of a college in Mayo is enormous but unfortunately the Minister has refused to relent thus far. I hope the persuasive agruments of Deputy Kenny and myself will have the necessary effect.
In a recent letter to me the Minister stated that an inter-departmental committee are currently examining the position of student places at third level. Pending receipt of the committee's report a number of capital projects have been deferred, including the proposed regional technical college in Castlebar. It is extremely difficult for Mayo people to accept such ministerial logic when the same inter-departmental committee has been by-passed in the Minister's haste to approve an RTC for Tallaght in Dublin. Mayo children have to travel the length and breadth of the country for third level facilities while students from Tallaght are within easy range of UCD, Trinity College, the new Dublin City University, the College of Commerce at Rathmines, the College of Technology at Kevin Street and Bolton Street, the National College of Music, the College of Catering in Cathal Brugha Street and the College of Home Economics in Sion Hill, as well as a plethora of private third level institutions. Despite the overwhelming case for a third level institution in Mayo, each year 2,800 third level students have to leave the county. Therefore there is a fairly substantial case for an RTC in Mayo.
I know the Minister's insensitivity to the problem in Mayo is in no way refined by the fact that the Minister enjoys in her own town of Athlone a very prestigious third level RTC which is an ideal complement to the various industries in that town. We are entitled to a college in Mayo and we trust that the Minister has the necessary sensitivity to grant us that college. As Deputy Kenny said, we look forward to a meeting with the Minister and with other public representatives. We would ask her to be sensitive to our rights, justice and entitlements and to accede to our request.
I would ask Deputy Higgins to conclude. Otherwise we will not be able to benefit from the dulcet tones of the Minister who has only five minutes to reply
I thank the Minister and look forward with anticipation to her reply.
First, let us get jealousy out of the way. Deputy Higgins cited all the colleges in Dublin but I do not think the purpose of any debate is to say: "we want what they have". Similarly, he cited Athlone which has a very fine regional college with which I have been associated for over 20 years. If the Deputy's purpose in putting that into the debate was to highlight for his local paper some sort of insensitivity on my part, it is completely daft.
It is already in the paper.
I let the Deputy rant on and did not interrupt him. From Dr. Patrick Clancy's report on the scale of the percentage of students going into third level education, Mayo ranked sixth highest in the land. On the scale of students getting third level grants it ranked second highest whereas Dublin ranked lowest at 19 per cent, a full 11 per cent behind Mayo.
The Minister is proving our point.
Let that be on the record of the House so that the case of Dublin is not so jealously expressed in this House. We were able to put Tallaght forward as a flagship special project to Brussels, where Deputy Bertie Ahern and I had to go to plead the case because of the demographic and social needs of the area and the fact that Dublin was the lowest by far on the scale of participation in third level education. That enabled the funds to be received for that project.
I thank Deputy Kenny and Deputy Higgins for raising this matter. I always try to take Adjournment debates myself because it is only corect and fair that the Minister in charge of the Department should do so. There are lacunas in the chronological account of events as detailed by Deputy Kenny but in deference to his sensitivity I shall not detail them. They relate to Deputy Bruton at two particular points in his career. The final Cabinet meeting before the Government dissolved in March 1987 at which a decision was made about the inter-departmental committee was not mentioned in the Deputy's contribution and neither was a remark made last July but perhaps that was an aberration on the Deputy's part.
If I had my way every town in the land would have a regional college but we have to have a measure of decorum about our public finances and arrangements about how we do our business. As I have said, in relation to third level places Mayo was the sixth highest of all the counties. I am delighted the young students there are getting the education they truthfully deserve and that the second level institutions, which are many, varied and excellent, are producing young students with such capabilities.
A proposal was put to me today by Deputy Kenny which has been, for some time past, a matter of informal discussion between the Minister for the Environment, Deputy Pádraig Flynn and myself, that is that I would meet with a deputation from Mayo VEC to discuss with them this whole issue and also to see what can be done in the matter of outreach courses. Tentative and informal discussions have taken place already on that matter. As I have said, Deputy Flynn has talked to me about this, as indeed has Deputy Kenny, and we have probed a little into the matter. By the time the VEC delegation come to see me — I hope it will be soon—I think we will be able to explore that idea in a much greater depth. It certainly is an idea which has much potential. In that respect I would be very glad, in conjunction with my colleague and friend, the Minister for the Environment, and also Deputy Kenny, Deputy Higgins and whoever else wishes to come, to meet with Mayo VEC to explore that possibility.
The Dáil adjourned at 5.30 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 13 March 1990.