It is proposed to take Nos. 6, 12 and 13. It is also proposed, subject to the agreement of the House, that business shall be interrupted at 11 p.m. tonight and the sitting shall be suspended from 1.30 p.m. to 2.30 p.m.; that the proceedings on the Committee Stage of No. 12, and the Report and Final Stages of No. 13, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 7 p.m. and 11 p.m., respectively, by one question in each case, which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only amendments set down by the Member of the Government in charge of the Bill; and that the Dáil shall meet tomorrow at 10.30 a.m. and shall adjourn not later than 5 p.m.
Order of Business.
Is the proposal for a late sitting today agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal to suspend the sitting from 1.30 p.m. to 2.30 p.m. agreed? Agreed. Are the proposals for dealing with No. 12 and No. 13 agreed?
The proposals for dealing with No. 13, Defence (Amendment) Bill, 1990: Report and Final Stages, are not agreed. This provides for four hours of debate for the Report and Final Stages of the Defence (Amendment) Bill, 1990. Given the debate we have had on Committee Stage, that time is inadequate and I therefore oppose the Government's proposal to guillotine this debate at 11 p.m.
We are dealing with the concluding Stages of the Defence (Amendment) Bill and the Committee Stage of the Social Welfare Bill, 1990. It is clear from the number of sections that remain to be dealt with on the Social Welfare Bill and the importance of the debate on the concluding Stages of the Defence (Amendment) Bill that adequate time has not been allocated. It is surprising the degree to which business has been crammed into this week when we could quite legitimately sit for another week at least. There is no reason that the business should be guillotined here tonight and we therefore oppose these proposals.
Given the serious objections which the Opposition parties have to the shortage of time available for both the Social Welfare Bill, 1990, and the Defence (Amendment) Bill, 1990, I wonder if the Tánaiste would consider allowing time next week? There are no pressing reasons that the House cannot sit next week and I ask the Tánaiste during the course of the day to consider that this House should sit for at least two days next week to give adequate time to these serious and important matters.
As my party's spokesman for Defence, I wish to oppose this proposal. Yesterday, on Committee Stage we had time to discuss only 21 of the 36 amendments——
Deputy Ryan, the leader of your party has already registered his opposition.
There is no way we can adequately deal with the remaining amendments on this very important Bill in the time available.
The point has been taken.
As Defence spokesperson for The Workers' Party, I would point out that originally it looked as though there was a clash of agendas between the Tánaiste and PDFORRA; however, PDFORRA have suspended their elections and now there is no urgency to push this Bill through the House. I ask the Minister to accede to what has been suggested.
The leader of your party has already put that point of view.
I wish to clear up a point. The Taoiseach in this House yesterday said that the Dáil would adjourn for the normal Easter recess. In my time in this House the normal Easter recess has been Holy Week and Easter Week. Therefore the point made by the Taoiseach yesterday was totally incorrect and it is quite proper that the record should disclose that fact.
First, at the conclusion of the Defence (Amendment) Bill, 1990, tonight at 11 p.m. we will have had a total of 26 hours debate if we include the four hours allocated today for the Report and Final Stages. I have sat here for most of that debate on all Stages and I can assure the House that the fullest and most detailed consideration has gone into every aspect of the matter and the fullest, most detailed and constructive consultations are proceeding with the people who are legitimately interested in this matter, the personnel of the Defence Forces.
Members of the House are legitimately interested in this Bill.
I hope Members do not make too much mischief in the House.
It took the Government a long time to have discussions with PDFORRA.
It is this House that has to pass the legislation and not anybody else.
I should like to say briefly to those who have requested a change in the Order of Business that my answer is, "No".
On a point of order, I should like to know if it is in order for a Minister to suggest that the only people legitimately interested in a Bill are some group outside the House as distinct from Dáil Éireann?
I, too, should like to raise a point of order.
Let us not adopt this device of disrupting the Chair, by points of order, in putting a question to the House. The Deputy should ensure that he has a point of order.
We know what the people outside the House think of Fianna Fáil actions in the other House yesterday.
On a point of order, I should like to point out that we are the legislators and it is up to us to make the decisions.
I must put the question to the House.
Question put: "That the proposals for dealing with No. 13 be agreed to."
The Dáil divided: Tá, 63; Níl, 60.
Tá
- Ahern, Bertie.
- Ahern, Dermot.
- Ahern, Michael.
- Andrews, David.
- Brennan, Mattie.
- Browne, John (Wexford).
- Callely, Ivor.
- Clohessy, Peadar.
- Collins, Gerard.
- Coughlan, Mary Theresa.
- Cowen, Brian.
- Cullimore, Séamus.
- Daly, Brendan.
- Davern, Noel.
- Dempsey, Noel.
- Dennehy, John.
- de Valera, Síle.
- Ellis, John.
- Fahey, Jackie.
- Fitzpatrick, Dermot.
- Flynn, Pádraig.
- Foxe, Tom.
- Gallagher, Pat the Cope.
- Garland, Roger.
- Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
- Harney, Mary.
- Hillery, Brian.
- Jacob, Joe.
- Kelly, Laurence.
- Kenneally, Brendan.
- Kitt, Michael P.
- Aylward, Liam.
- Barrett, Michael.
- Brady, Gerard.
- Brady, Vincent.
- Lawlor, Liam.
- Lenihan, Brian.
- Leonard, Jimmy.
- Leyden, Terry.
- Martin, Micheál.
- McDaid, Jim.
- McEllistrim, Tom.
- Molloy, Robert.
- Morley, P. J.
- Nolan, M.J.
- O'Connell, John.
- O'Donoghue, John.
- O'Keeffe, Ned.
- O'Leary, John.
- O'Malley, Desmond J.
- O'Rourke, Mary.
- O'Toole, Martin Joe.
- Power, Seán.
- Quill, Máirín.
- Reynolds, Albert.
- Roche, Dick.
- Smith, Michael.
- Treacy, Noel.
- Tunney, Jim.
- Wallace, Dan.
- Wallace, Mary.
- Woods, Michael.
- Wyse, Pearse.
Níl
- Ahearn, Therese.
- Allen, Bernard.
- Barnes, Monica.
- Barrett, Seán.
- Barry, Peter.
- Belton, Louis J.
- Boylan, Andrew.
- Bradford, Paul.
- Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).
- Bruton, John.
- Bruton, Richard.
- Byrne, Eric.
- Carey, Donal.
- Connaughton, Paul.
- Cosgrave, Michael Joe.
- Creed, Michael.
- Crowley, Frank.
- Currie, Austin.
- D'Arcy, Michael.
- Deasy, Austin.
- Deenihan, Jimmy.
- De Rossa, Proinsias.
- Doyle, Joe.
- Dukes, Alan.
- Durkan, Bernard.
- Fennell, Nuala.
- Ferris, Michael.
- FitzGerald, Garret.
- Flaherty, Mary.
- Flanagan, Charles.
- Gilmore, Eamon.
- Gregory, Tony.
- Higgins, Jim.
- Higgins, Michael D.
- Hogan, Philip.
- Howlin, Brendan.
- Kavanagh, Liam.
- Kemmy, Jim.
- Kenny, Enda.
- Lowry, Michael.
- McCartan, Pat.
- McCormack, Pádraic.
- Mac Giolla, Tomás.
- McGrath, Paul.
- Moynihan, Michael.
- Nealon, Ted.
- Noonan, Michael (Limerick East).
- O'Brien, Fergus.
- O'Keeffe, Jim.
- O'Shea, Brian.
- O'Sullivan, Gerry.
- O'Sullivan, Toddy.
- Quinn, Ruairí.
- Rabbitte, Pat.
- Reynolds, Gerry.
- Ryan, Seán.
- Sherlock, Joe.
- Spring, Dick.
- Taylor, Mervyn.
- Yates, Ivan.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies V. Brady and Clohessy; Níl, Deputies J. Higgins and Howlin.
Question declared carried.
May I ask now if the proposals for dealing with No. 12 in respect of Committee Stage of the Social Welfare Bill are agreed?
They are not agreed. I have already pointed out that I oppose the guillotine on the Social Welfare Bill and I propose to call a vote on it. Perhaps Deputy Garland will vote with us on this occasion and Fine Gael will cancel their pairings.
We are opposing it as well.
Question put: "That the proposals for dealing with No. 12 be agreed."
The Dáil divided: Tá. 63; Níl, 21.
Tá
- Ahern, Bertie.
- Ahern, Dermot.
- Ahern, Michael.
- Andrews, David.
- Aylward, Liam.
- Barrett, Michael.
- Brady, Gerard.
- Brady, Vincent.
- Brady, Séamus.
- Browne, John (Wexford).
- Clohessy, Peadar.
- Connolly, Ger.
- Coughlan, Mary Theresa.
- Cowen, Brian.
- Cullimore, Séamus.
- Daly, Brendan.
- Davern, Noel.
- Dempsey, Noel.
- Dennehy, John.
- de Valera, Síle.
- Ellis, John.
- Fahey, Jackie.
- Fitzpatrick, Dermot.
- Flynn, Pádraig.
- Foxe, Tom.
- Gallagher, Pat the Cope.
- Garland, Roger.
- Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
- Harney, Mary.
- Hillery, Brian.
- Hilliard, Colm.
- Jacob, Joe.
- Kelly, Laurence.
- Kenneally, Brendan.
- Kitt, Michael P.
- Lawlor, Liam.
- Lenihan, Brian.
- Leonard, Jimmy.
- Leyden, Terry.
- Martin, Micheál.
- McDaid, Jim.
- McEllistrim, Tom.
- Molloy, Robert.
- Morley, P.J.
- Nolan, M.J.
- O'Connell, John.
- O'Donoghue, John.
- O'Keeffe, Ned.
- O'Leary, John.
- O'Malley, Desmond J.
- O'Rourke, Mary.
- O'Toole, Martin Joe.
- Power, Seán.
- Quill, Máirín.
- Reynolds, Albert.
- Roche, Dick.
- Smith, Michael.
- Treacy, Noel.
- Tunney, Jim.
- Wallace, Dan.
- Wallace, Mary.
- Woods, Michael.
- Wyse, Pearse.
Níl
- Bell, Michael.
- Byrne, Eric.
- De Rossa, Proinsias.
- Ferris, Michael.
- Gilmore, Eamon.
- Higgins, Michael D.
- Howlin, Brendan.
- Kavanagh, Liam.
- Kemmy, Jim.
- McCartan, Pat.
- Mac Giolla, Tomás.
- Moynihan, Michael.
- O'Shea, Brian.
- O'Sullivan, Gerry.
- O'Sullivan, Toddy.
- Quinn, Ruairí.
- Rabbitte, Pat.
- Ryan, Seán.
- Sherlock, Joe.
- Spring, Dick.
- Taylor, Mervyn.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies V. Brady and Clohessy; Níl, Deputies Howlin and McCartan.
Question declared carried.
I must now put the remaining question in respect of the Order of Business. Is the proposal in relation to tomorrow's business agreed? Agreed.
Will the Government be making a statement in relation to the revealing information that was on our television screens last night about an issue which concerns this House and people all over the world? Do the Government propose to do anything about the fact that people were named last night as being responsible for planting the bombs in Birmingham in 1974?
This matter does not arise on the Order of Business.
As we are rising for the Easter recess tomorrow, will the Government give time in this House tomorrow morning so that some statements could be made in relation to what was revealed last night on television?
This matter requires careful examination and this will be done by the Government. It would not be possible to give time tomorrow. I appreciate the Deputy raising the question. It is a matter of concern.
(Limerick East): Item 6 on today's Order Paper is, effectively, the First Stage of the Finance Bill. I understand the Finance Bill has not been circulated. Perhaps the Minister or the Tánaiste could throw light on this rather unusual procedure where the First Stage is before the House but the Bill has not yet been circulated.
It is a motion to introduce.
The Bill will be before the House on 25 April, which is immediately on resumption and it will be circulated before 20 April.
Will the Government's consideration of the television programme about the Birmingham Six case involve referring the matter to the Director of Public Prosecutions to consider what prosecutions, if any, should be initiated——
This is not a matter relevant to the Order of Business——
——against people living in this country who were named in the programme.
Comment has been made on it despite the intimation from the Chair.
In view of your attitude and that of the Tánaiste to Deputy Spring, it is only fair that those of us who are interested——
There is no room for debate on the matter how.
I would like to raise on the Adjournment the decision of the Minister for Education to reduce by half the intake to St. Catherine's College, Sion Hill, in advance of the completion of the review on higher education places.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I want to ask the Tánaiste if the Minister for Education proposes to make a statement in relation to the funding for the National Youth Council; if adequate resources are available, and if she plans to introduce a supplementary estimate to provide extra money.
The Deputy should raise that matter in another way.
May I raise it on the Adjournment, Sir?
I will communicate with the Deputy.
The Taoiseach recently announced his intention to defer the local elections and set up a commission to examine the structures of local authorities. When is it proposed to introduce the legislation and other measures necessary to carry this out?
The Deputy should again deal with that matter by way of question or motion.
I believe I am in order. I am asking for information about legislation.
The Deputy is continually challenging the Chair in respect of this matter of order. I cannot tolerate that, Deputy De Rossa.
I very carefully phrased my question to ensure that it was in order.
I want to assist Deputy De Rossa to elicit the information he requires, but he must do it in a proper fashion. It is not in order now. I will not allow the Deputy to argue with me.
I am not arguing with you, a Cheann Comhairle.
What are you doing, Deputy, may I ask?
I am raising a point of order.
A point of order in a matter which is out of order.
You cannot decide it is out of order until I have made the point.
I have heard the Deputy and I have declared the matter out of order. I will hear no more argument from the Deputy.
I must protest. I am entitled under Standing Orders to seek to raise a point of order. You are not entitled to rule it out of order until you hear the point.
Deputy, if you continue to argue with me about the local elections issue, it is out of order. The Deputy should resume his seat.
I am sick and tired of you ruling my questions out of order before you have even heard them.
That is out of order. If the Deputy persists in defying the Chair in this fashion I will have no hesitation in asking him to leave the House.
I have no other option. You have persistently interrupted my questions on the Order of Business.
Because they are out of order. You will either resume your seat——
I am not leaving the House, a Cheann Comhairle. If you want to put me out of the House you will have to name me or arrange to have me named.
Deputy De Rossa, let us have order. Deputy Taylor.
On the Order of Business——
On a point of order, if you do not mind, I have stood here on numerous occasions, in order, and sought to raise points of order and I believe your attitude to my questions is totally out of order. You insist on cutting across my questions at every available opportunity and I am not prepared to stand for it.
I tabled Question No. 49 to the Minister for Finance. For some reason I cannot understand it has been transferred, entirely inappropriately, to the Minister for Social Welfare. This is on the Order of Business of the House today.
The Chair has no function in the transfer of questions of this kind.
The Minister has a role in it and that is what I want to draw attention to.
I have no role in it.
This is a case where the Comptroller and Auditor General criticised the Revenue Commissioners for failing to give information to the Minister for Social Welfare so that people can get their social welfare entitlements.
This is an abuse of the Order of Business. Deputy Taylor will please desist.
This refers to a criticism of the Revenue Commissioners and that is why I have directed the question to the Minister for Finance. He seeks to avoid it by passing it over to the Minister for Social Welfare. The Order of Business is not correct.
Resume your seat, Deputy Taylor.
I seek permission to raise on the Adjournment the announcement by the Minister for the Environment of a further inquiry into the downstream crossing of the River Lee and the implications for infrastructural development in the Cork region.
I will be in touch with the Deputy.
I seek permission to raise on the Adjournment the serious situation caused by the delay of the Minister for Justice in reappointing visiting committees to the prisions and by the suppression of the draft report of the Mountjoy Visiting Committee.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
In view of what Deputy Taylor has brought to your attention, would I be in order in suggesting that the Departments of Finance and Social Welfare consult to decide to which Department the question should properly be addressed?
I have no function in this matter.
Would you not agree that because of what has been revealed your good offices might be available to have the matter reconsidered?
If my office can be of assistance in reconciling matters in this House I will strive towards that end.
Does the Minister for the Environment intend to make a statement indicating the areas that will be included for urban designation? It was promised in the budget debate and the House has been awaiting an announcement for some time.
Is this promised legislation?
I wish to raise on the Adjournment the serious deficiency in the staffing levels of speech therapists in the special schools in Cashel.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
In view of the fact that a number of youth projects will close down shortly and over 80 youths could lose their jobs, when do the Government intend to announce the allocation for youth services? I appeal to them to announce it as a matter of urgency.
I thought the Deputy was raising a matter which was in order.
It is a matter of great importance.
I wish to raise on the Adjournment the serious concern expressed on the south-west, west and north-west coasts about the damage to other interests caused by finfish farming.
I will be in touch with the Deputy concerning the matter.
I wish to raise on the Adjournment the proposed increase in university fees at UCC.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I wish to raise on the Adjournment the failure of the Taoiseach to respond to correspondence and a parliamentary question from me and to correspondence from the committee for the tricentenary of the battle of the Boyne in connection with a request for financial assistance.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I seek to raise on the Adjournment the subject matter of Question No. 100.
I will be in touch with the Deputy concerning the matter.
Approaching the end of another Dáil session, I once again seek to raise on the Adjournment the continuous and widespread use of radar detectors by speeding motorists.
I will be in touch with the Deputy concerning that matter.
I seek once again to raise on the Adjournment the major problem at Ladyswell national school and the lack of facilities there.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
An announcement was made to the effect that £8 million would be available for the repair of storm damage. When will the specific details be given?
That question would not be in order now.
I seek to raise on the Adjournment the increase of 11 per cent in fees in UCC.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I wish to raise on the Adjournment the need for the Minister for Social Welfare to look at the possibility of a scheme of temporary payments for the wives of emigrants who are unable to maintain them from their overseas earnings.
I will communicate with the Deputy.