Richard Bruton
Question:23 Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Justice whether he supports the evolution of community law centres along the lines of the Coolock Community Law Centre, Dublin 5; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Community Law Centres.
Richard Bruton
Question:28 Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Justice whether the Coolock Community Law Centre, Dublin 5, will be able to continue their services on the basis of findings from the Combat Poverty Agency; and if he will consider supplementing their resources.
Patrick McCartan
Question:45 Mr. McCartan asked the Minister for Justice if he will involve his Department in funding in part the Coolock Community Law Centre, Dublin 5 for the future; if he will consider sharing the responsibility on an equal basis with the Department of Social Welfare; if he will make up the £50,000 shortfall in the centre's budget for the current year; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 23, 28 and 45 together.
The Coolock Community Law Centre operates outside the State scheme of civil legal aid and advice and on a different basis. I am not in a position to assist in the funding of the centre because the moneys that are voted by the Oireachtas for the provision of civil legal aid services are for the purposes of the State scheme exclusively. Furthermore, at a time of scarce financial resources it is incumbent on me to channel whatever public funds are available to me to the State scheme.
The future improvement and development of our civil legal aid service will be based on the phased expansion of the State scheme, i.e., mainly through an increase in the number of law centres operated by and under the control of the Legal Aid Board. I am satisfied that this is the proper way to proceed but, of course, progress will depend on financial circumstances.
Will the Minister agree that Coolock Community Law Centre have produced a more cost effective service to their clients than the legal aid boards? Will he further agree that the commission set up by the Government to examine the establishment of legal aid centres recommended centres along the lines of the one established in Coolock? Will he also agree that it is impossible for this agency to work on a hand to mouth basis as they have done over several years?
The Deputy will be aware that the fear of not knowing how much money they will get from year to year has now been removed from the Coolock Law Centre by the fact that, through the Combat Poverty Agency, there will be an annual grant of £70,000 for each of the next three years.
Where will they stand in three years' time?
In regard to the whole question of civil legal aid, it is my intention to provide whatever money is available through the State civil legal aid scheme. I began the process this year of getting extra funding and this year the highest amount ever — £2.163 million — has been provided. I want to build on that year by year but it will go through the civil legal aid scheme which I want to put on a statutory basis as it has been in existence since 1980.
Will the Minister agree that the Coolock Community Centre provide a service of access for people who would not be able to derive as comprehensive a service from the legal aid centres and that this is the model which the Pringle Commission advocated?
People availing of the Coolock centre could also use the three centres within the Dublin area for civil legal aid.
(Interruptions.)
I am not saying that the Coolock centre are not doing a good job and I am not opposed to it. An important recommendation of the Pringle Commission was that there should be a comprehensive scheme and I want to put the civil legal aid scheme on a statutory basis. Extra funds are badly needed and I am trying to provide them but they will be channelled through the State fund.
I am bitterly disappointed with the Minister's response given the fact that many of his constituents avail of the service, some on his recommendation and referral. If Coolock Law Centre was not in existence there would be an onus on the Minister to provide a State legal aid centre similar to that provided in Tallaght on the west side of the city. On the basis that the north side have an unanswerable case in that regard, will the Minister agree that there is equity in the centre looking to his Department for part funding? I ask the Minister not to close the door and to open negotiations with the Minister for Social Welfare and the Combat Poverty Agency to see if there is any way in which a more co-ordinated approach could be taken. The centre simply want to expand in a small but effective way by employing one extra person. In view of the excellent work — which the Minister acknowledges — of the centre, will he again look at this matter?
I am not denying the excellent work done in the Coolock centre and, as the Deputy said, some of my constituents use it. However, my responsibility is in relation to the national scheme as Minister as distinct from the Deputy for the area and to ensure that the national scheme is working properly. The Combat Poverty Agency are used by the Department of Social Welfare in relation to additional funding being made available and it has been increased for Coolock this year. Indeed, to remove their uncertainty from year to year money will be provided for the next three years. I do not want to give any commitment here which might be wrongly interpreted by those involved in the community law centre to the possibility of funding from my own Department.
Is the Minister willing to meet Deputy Bruton and other Deputies who are interested in this matter to discuss it further?
I never refuse to meet anybody at any time.