Vol. 397 No. 9
24 Tomás Mac Giolla asked the Minister for Justice if the Government intend to take any steps to terminate ground rents in view of the overwhelming public opposition to these rents; if he intends to take any steps to end the right of ground landlords to seek orders for the jailing of those who have not paid ground rents; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
The Landlord and Tenant (Ground Rents) Act, 1978, prevents the creation of new ground rents on dwellinghouses. The Landlord and Tenant (Ground Rents) (No. 2) Act, 1978, provides, as regards existing ground rents on dwellinghouses, a low cost purchase scheme and the Landlord and Tenant (Ground Rents) (Amendment) Act, 1987, extends indefinitely the operation of that scheme.
The existing law, therefore, provides a ready means by which any person can terminate the ground rent payable on his dwellinghouse. A considerable number of people have availed themselves of that opportunity.
Nobody may be committed to prison merely for non-payment of ground rent or any other debt. A person may be committed to prison for failure to comply with a court order to make certain payments in discharge of a debt, an order which may be made only after an examination of means designed to establish that the person can pay and that failure to pay is due to his wilful refusal or culpable neglect. It does not appear to me that there is any rational basis on which a distinction can be made between the enforcement of court orders concerning ground rent debts and court orders concerning other civil debts.
I should like to point out that the Minister has not replied to the question I put down. Can I take it from his evasion that the Coalition Government of Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats do not intend to terminate ground rents? Both parties agreed to terminate ground rents when they were in Opposition. Have the Government made that decision?
The Deputy will be aware that the termination of ground rents without giving some payment or compensation to landlords would not be in keeping with the Constitution and that it would cost between £35 million and £40 million to compensate landlords in the event of the abolition of ground rents at no cost to the householder. Any such charge on the Exchequer would be totally unjustifiable.
I take that as confirmation that the Government do not intend to terminate ground rents. While I do not agree that the Constitution prevents this, I ask the Minister to avail of the opportunity which will be presented in the autumn when the Presidential election takes place of putting forward a constitutional amendment to abolish this relic of conquest which all parties in this House say they are against and oppose. Will the Government put that issue to a referendum during the Presidential election in order to terminate ground rents once and for all?
I will consider the matter.
Deputy Jim O'Keeffe.
Is the answer yes or no?
Surely the Deputy is long enough in this House not to seriously expect a yes or no answer to a question of that magnitude at this stage.
Deputy Jim O'Keeffe has been offering for some time.
Is the Minister aware that his partners in Government, the Progressive Democrats, circulated the draft heads of a Bill while they were in Opposition? Has any consideration been given to that Bill which is designed to end ground rents without any cost to the State by means of a payment arrangement and a termination date? What is the Minister's reaction to the Bill and is he or his Coalition partners in any way committed to it?
I think all parties in this House dislike the concept of ground rent. It was with this in mind that Fianna Fáil, when they were in Government in 1978 and 1987, brought forward legislation to enable householders to first buy out ground rents and second, to stop the creation of future ground rents.
With regard to the purchase of ground rents, at this stage 58,897 dwellinghouse owners have availed of the special ground rents purchase scheme ofer being operated——
Fifteen per cent——
I understand there are about 200,000 dwellinghouses left. I can assure the Deputy that all aspects of ground rents are constantly examined——
Has the Progressive Democrat Bill been examined?
I am looking at the question of ground rents in local authority houses, which I know will be of interest to Deputy Mac Giolla and all other Members of the House. A number of aspects are being looked at and the proposals made by my colleagues in Government when they were in Opposition will be looked at also.
A Cheann Comhairle——
I think the House will agree that we ought to have made much more progress on questions to the Minister for Justice today.
We should have a separate session with the Minister for Justice.
I am calling Deputy McCartan.
I want to ask the Minister a question in regard to committal to prisons. If the Minister has a difficulty in differentiating between those committed to prison for the non-payment of ground rent as opposed to those committed for other civil debts, in view of over-crowding and for economic reasons, would he not consider introducing legislation to abolish committal to prison, for the non-payment of debt, which I believe is an invidious and unnecessary step?
I should like to take the opportunity of paying my respects to the two men in particular, John O'Hanlon who comes from my constituency who spent Easter in prison, because of their objection to the payment of ground rent which they consider illegal. Would the Minister consider abolishing the right to committal to prison in all matters of civil debt and not just in regard to ground rent?
These matters are kept constantly under review.
