Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 12 Jul 1990

Vol. 401 No. 6

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Higher Education Grants Scheme.

John Bruton

Question:

1 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Minister for Education if she will outline the nature and scope of all studies undertaken since 1987 on grants to students participating in higher education; when these studies were commenced and completed; when she will make decisions to revise the system of grants in order to (a) provide greater equity in this matter for the PAYE sector, (b) ensure that all submissions of income statements are assessed on objective and standard criteria and (c) ensure more favourable treatment for families with more than one child in higher education.

Brendan McGahon

Question:

11 Mr. McGahon asked the Minister for Education if she has any plans to make special provision within the higher education grants scheme for families with more than one child attending at higher education colleges; if she will allow these families include the cost involved in the higher education of one child as an expense against means when applying for a higher education grant for a second child; and if she will make a statement on the matter.

Jim O'Keeffe

Question:

73 Mr. J. O'Keeffe asked the Minister for Education if her attention has been drawn to the financial difficulties experienced by many parents who have a number of children in third level education who do not have the benefit of a State grant; and whether she has any proposals to alleviate their plight.

Minister for Education (Mrs. O'Rourke)

I propose to take Questions Nos. 1, 11 and 73 together.

A study of the means assessment criteria for eligibility for higher education grants was carried out by an inter-departmental group and a number of recommendations were made about changes in the present system. As the issue of means testing is very complex and affects a number of Government Departments and agencies I have asked the review group to examine the question further in the context of its relevance to other Departments/agencies and with regard to the desirability of seeking to standardise means testing arrangements across the public service generally.

Quite apart from this work my Department review the higher education grants scheme on an annual basis in the light of their experience of its operation and problems that emerge. I am aware of the difficulties facing some parents with more than one child at third level education and this is a matter which is under consideration at present.

I wish to point out that despite the past few years of severe financial constraints I have increased the income eligibility limits and rates of maintenance grant payable in line with the increase in the CPI. I have also increased the fee grant in line with increases in tuition fee charges. Moreover, I would also point out that the percentage of students receiving grant assistance in the 1989-90 academic year was over 50 per cent compared with under 47 per cent in 1986-87.

In addition to these improvements I can assure the Deputies that it has been my objective to ensure that the higher education grants scheme is as equitable as possible and that decisions about grant eligibility are based on objective criteria.

Mr. J. Bruton

Is the Minister aware that as long ago as November 1989 she told this House that she had under consideration proposals for an inter-departmental group? However, almost eight months later she has taken no decision on that proposal. May I ask the Minister if the Departments to which she has now referred this report back for further consideration were already represented on the group who drew up the initial recommendations? Does she not agree that referring the report back to the people who prepared it is simply a delaying tactic?

Mrs. O'Rourke

I will tell the Deputy why the report was referred back to them. While the conclusions were reached by a professional body of people who carried out the work to the best of their ability it emerged from a study of the report that there would be different ways of looking at the eligibility of people under various public sector activities, for example, the Department of Social Welfare, the Department of Education in relation to the higher education grants scheme and the Revenue Commissioners for other reasons.

It emerged that there were going to be across-the-board disparities on how eligibility for various entitlements would be deduced. These anomalies could give rise to very many complex issues and perhaps to cases of litigation. On this basis I asked the group to consider their original proposals in more depth as a matter of urgency. There is much proper questioning and debate about who gets what grant — particularly as £27.2 million of public money will go into the scheme this year — and many people have expressed reservations about various sectors who appear to get more than anybody else. The PAYE sector, in particular, seem to be discriminated against because their income is naked, so to speak, and very apparent. I receive representations in my Department every day about the strict criteria the county councils, who act on our instructions, apply to the lifestyles and means of applicants for schemes.

Mr. J. Bruton

Does the Minister not agree it is unfair that those in the PAYE sector who are being denied higher education now because this system is unfair to them will have to wait, as it now appears they will, until the Government sort out the means tests everywhere in the public service before that unfairness will be remedied? Surely the Minister for Education should concern herself with rectifying this wrong in education and not await the solving of every other means testing problem everywhere else in the State sector.

Mrs. O'Rourke

As Deputy Bruton and many other public representatives know, my Department are currently considering representations about cases in County Meath. Meath County Council are interpreting to the letter the instructions we have given them about the eligibility of parents based on their means. We have reached the point where the people in question——

Mr. J. Bruton

That is not the question I asked. That matter was sorted out by the Ombudsman.

Mrs. O'Rourke

That is exactly the point I was going to make. This issue was brought to our attention by the review group and the Ombudsman——

Mr. J. Bruton

And by me.

Mrs. O'Rourke

That is only proper as they are the Deputy's constituents. Some people believe the PAYE sector are being discriminated against while at the same time they demand grants for A, B, C and D because they have produced self-assessment tax returns, or chartered accountants' certified returns. If we do not accept the chartered accountant's return because the life style, make up, etc. of the family is at variance with the eligibility requirement, we will be calling into question matters which have been referred to the Ombudsman——

Mr. J. Bruton

It is the Minister's job to sort that out.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am sorry but——

Mrs. O'Rourke

The Deputy cannot have his cake and eat it.

Mr. J. Bruton

It is the Minister's job to sort——

An Ceann Comhairle

Please, Deputy Bruton.

Mrs. O'Rourke

Very strong representations have been made to me about constituents——

Mr. J. Bruton

The Minister has a job to do.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am afraid we shall not be able to dispose of these five questions. We have dwelt unduly long on this question and no regard has been had to the Chair's admonition about brevity.

Mrs. O'Rourke

Hear, hear.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am calling Question No. 2.