Deputy Garland gave me notice of his intention to raise on the Adjournment the report compiled on Dublin Zoo, its publication and its recommendations. The Deputy has five minutes to represent his case and the Minister five minutes to reply.
Adjournment Debate. - Education and Foreign Affairs Matters.
I wish to thank you, a Cheann Comhairle, for giving me the opportunity of bringing up this very important matter. This report, which was prepared by the public inquiry board, has still not been published many months after its completion. It is very important that it be made public as there is a great deal of public disquiet about conditions in Dublin Zoo.
The zoo management is very much aware of the public concern about the state of the zoo, as are the Government. Many people who have no axe to grind consider the place unsuitable for the housing of any animals, let alone wild ones. Many would prefer to see the institution closed down rather than have wild animals kept in such conditions, far removed from their natural climate, bereft of any of the normal conditions in which the animals would exist in the wild.
Take, for example, Judy the elephant, who arrived in Dublin in 1980. Judy was then five years old and was bought from Chipperfield's which is against international guidelines. Judy was a wild-caught elephant and in her early years she appeared to be reasonably healthy and even travelled to Scotland to take part in a film.
In 1985, Judy started to develop symptoms of malaise and she has fallen on a number of occasions. As early as 1986 it was suggested that David Taylor, the international zoo vet, should see Judy, but this was ruled out because of lack of finance. Eventually, a couple of weeks ago, finance was found to bring zoo vet Andrew Greenwood over from London. His diagnosis has not been made public. Dublin Zoo say that Judy shows no change in her condition but I heard otherwise that she is deteriorating.
Elephants should live for 55 to 60 years but tend to live much shorter periods in captivity; 34 years seems to be the average. Judy, however, is only 15 years old and is very seriously ill. The conditions in which she is kept are extremely poor — wet concrete floors and cramped conditions. Judy is also suffering from arthritis. Debbie, her companion, purchased at the same time from the same source had to be put down last year. Dublin Zoo's record with elephants is absolutely deplorable and they must pull out of keeping them ever again.
The Director of the zoo, Mr. Peter Wilson, maintains that enormous maintenance costs have been required to improve the environment for the animals in the antiquated Victorian infrastructure. I have seen very little sign of any improvements in the environment for the animals. All the large animals are imprisoned in small enclosures which have nothing to interest and occupy them. The polar bears, for instance, exist in a cramped environment, their water hole is usually very dirty and they display typical symptoms of stereotyped behaviour. On top of this their breeding record has been spectacularly unsuccessful and the question as to why breeding is attempted at all, when a proper cubbing den does not exist, has never been answered properly by the zoo management.
These are just some of the examples of the conditions in Dublin Zoo. Now that we are coming into the winter it is very hard to imagine animals living in these conditions, with sub-zero temperatures. It is particularly regrettable that the public are not more aware of the problems of Dublin Zoo. People are now questioning whether it is morally justified to keep animals behind bars. It can be argued that zoos are just animal prisons. Finally, I call on the Minister to publish this report which has been lying on her desk for months. I challenge her today to confirm that no further public money will be advanced until this report is published.
Let me say clearly, for the record of this House, that I am responsible for a number of matters but for Judy the elephant, I am not responsible.
Who is?
Would you allow me to continue please? You have had your say, and I want to have mine. The zoo is a private institution. It is owned by the Royal Zoological Society and, consequently, does not come within my statutory remit. The reason I am responding today is that on two previous occasions lottery funding by way of special subscription was channelled through the Department of Education, on the basis of attendance by young people at the zoo. Not at any time before then did the zoo receive State funding.
Yesterday the Government commissioned a report on the zoo. A committee was set up which issued their findings. Those findings are now the subject of a discussion paper which will go to Cabinet. On that basis the Cabinet will decide its recommendations, if any, bearing in mind that this is a private institution and, as the Deputy admitted this evening, that there are vast implications as to whether there should be a zoo at all — that was a clear point made by the Deputy. That remains for the people to decide.
The zoo does not come under State remit but the Government, because of the public interest in the subject, decided to set up a small committee, an eminent group. That committee issued a report which will be the subject of a Government discussion. Therefore, I am precluded from making any announcement or issuing any report until the opportunity of that report arises. Meanwhile, the zoo authorities, in the person of the committee, have visited my Department regarding immediate financial concerns — by immediate I mean within the next few weeks. Productive conversations have been held between my Department, the management and other Government Departments, the outcome of which has not yet been decided. Therefore, I am precluded from saying anything in that regard.
The Deputy has challenged me to say that no more money will be given to the zoo until the report is published. When we have concluded the discussions I have referred to I will be reporting to the Government. I do not have overall responsibility for the zoo and I cannot decide what the zoo will do with any particular animal within its remit.
The Minister has not answered me in regard to the public money. Will more public money be made available to this institution?
I have answered the Deputy. I do not have responsibility for public money.
Who has responsibility for public money?
It is a privately run institution.
The Minister's reply ended the discussion.