Proinsias De Rossa
Question:4 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Taoiseach if he will outline the matters he expects to raise or propose at the forthcoming summit of EC leaders in Rome; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - EC Summit.
As I said in the House on 1 November when reporting on the Special Meeting of the European Council in Rome, a number of the themes we addressed then will be further discussed at the forthcoming meeting. Beyond this and in accordance with established practice, it would not be appropriate for me to comment in advance on what other issues may come up.
Could I ask the Taoiseach, since he was not too keen to answer the last question, if the Government have made any written submission to the Heads of State of the European Community with regard to the IGCs?
That is not the way the thing works.
A Cheann Comhairle, it is how the thing works.
Is that the way the Taoiseach works?
There have been submissions made by other Governments.
There have not been.
There have, yes.
There is ongoing work in the ECOFIN Council and in the General Affairs Council, and the Presidency is responsible for bringing forward documentation before the European Summit.
And what are you saying in all this?
When this Taoiseach was the President of the European Council he indicated that the Presidency could not produce discussion documents because it was dependent on what the other member states produced in relation to the IGCs that were held under his Presidency. Now we are told that it is not for member states to submit these discussion documents but for the Presidency to produce documentation. The fact is that discussion documents have been produced by other Governments. Can the Taoiseach tell the House whether the Irish Government have produced any or not?
There is no question of producing documents in the way the Deputy envisages. He does not understand the process.
That is incredible.
For instance, in the case of Economic and Monetary Union what happens in the ECOFIN Council at which my colleague, the Minister for Finance, is our representative, has been processing the work of preparation for the IGC on Economic and Monetary Union over the last year and before that, and that is an ongoing process in that council. The same is the case with regard to political union, which is primarily the responsibility of the General Affairs Council. They have been working and meeting preparing for the IGC on Political Union. There is no question of individual member states coming along to the Summit in Rome and planking down some sort of document or submission. That is not relevant; that is not the way it works.
Would the Taoiseach agree that he is displaying a lamentable lack of information about the facts in the replies he has given? Could I draw to his attention the fact the President Mitterand and Chancellor Kohl have published a joint declaration on the inter-governmental conference in which they go into considerable detail on behalf of their national governments about matters such as the extension of the competences of the Community, the withdrawal of the veto of individual countries and many other matters in regard to economic, political and monetary union? Would the Taoiseach agree that his statement that national governments have not been making submissions is quite simply untrue and, in his case, culpably ill-informed?
I think I am a little bit better informed about the procedures of the European Council than the Deputy. I have personally presided over two European Councils during the Irish Presidency, and I have been at a very considerable number of European Councils over the years. I am fully aware of how these Councils do their business and how they proceed; and I want to tell the Deputy that what I am saying to the House is the correct procedure.
You are just wrong. Would the Taoiseach like me to furnish him with a copy, which I have in my possession, of the joint declaration of President Mitterand and Chancellor Kohl? The fact is that the national governments of Britain and Germany have tabled their own policies for large countries and our Government have failed to table any policy. In other words, we have a Government that are not putting forward any positive proposals on this matter to represent the interests of a small peripheral nation which has specific interests. I repeat that in this matter the Taoiseach is both culpably ill-informed and culpably negligent in the performance of his duties.
We are having repetition.
I am totally informed——
No, Sir.
——of every detail and every process which has led to the last Rome Summit and to this Rome Summit. I am fully aware of everything that is put forward and everything that is on the table and I want to reiterate that the Presidency has the primary responsibility for, first of all, sending out a letter to the rest of us outlining the sort of agenda they hope to follow at the Rome Summit, and also has the primary responsibility for preparing the conclusion of the Rome Summit. That is the height of it. That is the way it works and there is no question of this Government, so far as Ireland is concerned, in any way neglecting our case.
This is appalling.
In all the councils so far, particularly in the ECOFIN Council and the General Affairs Council, we consistently maintain our position on all issues coming before those councils in preparation for the two IGCs, and to suggest anything else is just specious nonsense.
I can send the Taoiseach a copy, today or tomorrow, of the Kohl/Mitterand declaration.
This cannot be debated now.
I think it is quite silly for Deputy Bruton to suggest that he has possession of some documents I do not have and which he needs to send me.
I have a copy and I will send it.
Will you for Heaven's sake catch yourself on?
I have it in my possession.
I will entertain a brief question from Deputy Dukes and a final question from Deputy De Rossa.
Is the Taoiseach not aware that, in addition to the document referred to by Deputy Bruton, in addition to the public positions taken up by the British Government, the Prime Minister of the Netherlands, Mr. Lubbers, and the Prime Minister of Belgium, Mr. Martens, to name only two more, have expanded at some length their views in relation to Economic and Monetary Union and political union and have set out clearly the kinds of views that they wish to see considered by the IGCs and by the European Council? Would the Taoiseach not agree that the European Parliament and a special conference of the national parliaments of the member states have made recommendations? Finally would the Taoiseach not agree that it is a complete abdication of his duty as Prime Minister of this country to adopt the policy of the three monkeys; hear no evil, see no evil and speak no evil?
And have no ideas.
Again I know I am not going to make any progress with the Deputies because——
The Taoiseach is not going to make any progress——
——they either do not understand or deliberately misunderstand the position. The House and particularly the people of this country can be certain that in all the Councils where work is done our position and our views are constantly and persistently advocated with great success. Ireland's position is maintained successfully through all the preparatory work, through all the meetings of Councils and at every other level. There is no question but that our position on all these issues is well known, understood and respected.
Your position is that there is no position.
Of course there is a position.
Every time the Taoiseach comes into this House——
Please, Deputy Dukes, questions have been asked; let the replies be heard.
——he puts a series of platitudes before us. There is no position on any of the issues.
Our position, for instance, on economic and monetary union has been spelled out by me again and again in this House. It is constantly adumbrated by the Minister for Finance in the ECOFIN Council. Our views on political union have been given here by me in this House and are constantly discussed and elaborated upon by the Minister for Foreign Affairs in the General Affairs Council. This work is ongoing day by day and week by week. To think you would suddenly come along with a particular document stipulating your views on this, that or the other is just rubbish. That is not the way the system works.
It is the way it works. Why did the Taoiseach not read his brief before he came in here today?
A final, relevant and brief question. Deputy De Rossa.
The Taoiseach should indicate the Government's view on, first, indirect tax harmonisation and, secondly——
Deputy Dukes, I have called Deputy De Rossa.
——future legislation between the European Parliament and national parliaments——
The Deputy must desist from interrupting in this fashion.
Unless the Taoiseach does that he cannot be believed.
It is clear that we will not get a lot of information from the Taoiseach today on the issue. Perhaps he would indicate what opportunity he will present to the House next week to discuss the outcome of the Intergovernmental Conference?
The normal procedure will be followed. I will report to the House in due course not on the Intergovernmental Conference, because, as the Deputy understands, both Intergovernmental Conferences will probably go on well into next year, maybe as far as June, before there is any conclusion, but I will report in the normal way on the Rome Summit, which is what I will be attending. I hope, if I can before the recess, to report to the House on that summit.
Could I ask the Taoiseach——
Ceist a cúig.
I would like clarification——
I have called No. 5.