Vol. 405 No. 9
10 Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will allow retrospective payments of PRSI for the self-employed in the case of applications by widows for contributory widow's pension where their late spouses have not paid or may not have been asked to pay the PRSI contributions for the self-employed since the inception of the scheme.
If there is a clear liability to pay PRSI contributions as a self-employed contributor the contributions due may be paid retrospectively. If the self-employed contributor has died the contributions due may be paid from the estate, or if he or she was married, by the surviving spouse. The contributions are collected by the Revenue Commissioners in the majority of cases. In the case of those who are not liable for income tax, the contributions are collected by my Department.
It may be difficult to establish conclusively after a person has died that there was a liability to contribute in the period before death. Accordingly, in order to ensure that cover for the widows contributory pension is acquired it is important for self-employed persons who are not contributing to establish whether they are liable to contribute and, if so, to pay the contributions as soon as possible after they become due.
The House will acknowledge that this aspect of PRSI for the self-employed is good in so far as widows become eligible after three years. I have acknowledged this on several occasions. However, the reason I put down this question was because of a case where the third contribution was paid last October, but unfortunately, the spouse died a few weeks later. His widow has been told that because her husband died three or four months too soon, even though the contributions were paid, she is not deemed to be eligible for a contributory widows's pension. Is there anything the Minister, or his Department, can do about this case? Technically the contributions were paid when demanded and on time. It can be proven that the contributions were paid prior to this man's death. Surely something can be done in those circumstances.
Unfortunately, this would apply to anybody in that situation in the period up to the three years, as it would apply to any ordinary class A insured contributor or other insured contributors who are insured for widow's pension purposes. It is not just a question of a few cases which might arise in the last three to four months, three to four weeks or whatever. That is an unfortunate aspect of the new scheme and it applies to anybody coming into the scheme now. If the Deputy gives me the details of the particular case I will certainly look at it. There is, of course, the possibility that the person paid contributions at some time previously during his working life and that would bring him into the scheme. It is tied at present by the legislation and by cost. If you open it up for a particular case you will have to take in all cases. I accept the point the Deputy is making, that having paid the contributions for the year ending this March there is some slight difference. It would presumably also apply to all other situations where a person is paying for the whole year in question. I will have to look at the case for the Deputy.
May I ask——
I want to make progress and to call Deputy Cotter's question.
The Minister said that payments of PRSI due at the time of death of a person who is liable may be collected by the State. Is it not true that in all cases any such debt would be payable and collectable by the State?
It would be payable and collectable but it may or may not be paid. First, you may or may not know about it. If people have not been registered it raises a problem. We undertook a massive advertising campaign around the country to try to get people to register so that they would be included in the scheme. One question arises in relation to widow's pension. There is a determination as to whether it would be reckonable because, for instance, a person may purposely avoid paying it for a period on the chance that he might not die during that period. These are the kinds of questions that arise. I know that is an extreme case but——
If it is due it is collectable.
Yes, it is.
Let us come to another question, please.
I wish to ask one brief question.
No. 11, Deputy Cotter's question. We are making no progress here today.
It was my question.
We have dwelt long enough on it.
As did the Minister, fair play to him. It is a very important question.
There are many questions to be answered.
