Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 1 May 1991

Vol. 407 No. 7

Fisheries (Amendment) Bill, 1990: Committee Stage (Resumed).

Debate resumed on amendment No. 55:

In page 8, before section 17, to insert the following new section:

"17.—This Act shall not come into effect until such time as the rules for the regulations of societies in accordance with section 5 (1) have been published and agreed with the regional fisheries boards and the Minister.".

—(Deputy Garland.)

As I said earlier, this amendment would put a new section 17 into the Bill which would have the effect of deferring the effective date of this legislation until such time as the rules for the regulation of societies, as provided for by section 5, have been published and agreed with the regional fisheries boards and the Minister. The last time we discussed this Bill, last month, we had a very long and heated debate on the question of the rules of the societies and a great deal of dissatisfaction was expressed on this side of the House in regard to the rules and to the fact that they had not yet been drawn up and agreed with the fisheries boards and the angling interests. The fairness of this Bill stands or falls very largely on the detailed rules of the societies. All Members on this side of the House are still very dissatisfied in this regard and the only way of dealing with the matter at this stage is by this amendment which would effectively defer the implementation of the Bill until the rules have been agreed.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

I agree with Deputy Garland. Section 5 deals with the rules of the society and very clearly states that additional rules and regulations may be introduced by the Minister in conjunction with the societies and fisheries boards. It is well not to operate in a vacuum and legislation cannot come into effect until the rules and regulations of operation are drafted. As we do not know what the rules and regulations are it would be contrary to the spirit of the legislation to implement the Bill without them. Possibly a problem in relation to legislation is the number of rules and regulations, apart from those implemented in this House, which are very much a feature of legislation going through the House. I am not sure that in all instances it is satisfactory. It is important to have rules but flexibility is also important and societies should be in a position to operate without too much consultation with the Minister. The fact that the Minister has such a strong voice in relation to the rules of the societies takes from the societies the whole spirit of co-operation and basic principle of co-operatives.

The amendment tabled by Deputy Garland deserves consideration. I presume the Minister will not implement the Bill until the necessary rules and regulations are in place. Perhaps he will give us an assurance in the House that that is what he proposes to do and that the Bill will not come into effect until then?

Mr. G. O'Sullivan

This section appears to be a last shot at trying to put sense into the Bill. There has been controversy regarding each section because of ignorance of the rules and regulations which were being laid down. Obviously someone, somewhere, knows the rules, there must be a draft available but it seems incredible that we are now passing legislation governing co-operatives, societies and angling clubs without knowing what rules will be imposed. Will an opportunity be afforded to people directly involved to assess the rules and make recommendations? When will the rules be formalised? People outside cannot make sense of the Bill because they are in ignorance of the rules by which they will be governed. The amendment is reasonable and I am sure that the Minister will acknowledge that one of the arguments in relation to the Bill is that we do not know who will govern the co-operatives and what their relationship is to the fishery boards. That is a very important factor in this legislation because there appears to be a division between the fishery boards and the co-operatives which will be set up. Will the Minister accept the amendment to accommodate the people who have consistently looked for publication of the rules or a formula which we can show to the people involved? Perhaps we should ask for submissions from the fishery boards and the angling interests. The Minister should give some concession to the people who have tried to tease out the problems governing this legislation, about which I have grave reservations.

Mr. Gilmore

This is a very good amendment dealing with a topic which we discussed in a different way at an earlier Stage of the Bill. It is a question of rules for societies. The amendment is very practical because we know that this legislation will not be in place for this year's fishing or tourist season.

The Bill has to pass through the remaining Stages in this House, go to the Seanad and, very possibly, come back to this House. At the very earliest this legislation will be in place for 1992 and it is taking a very optimistic view to expect the societies to be in place and so on to give practical effect to it. The amendment is very practical in that there would be an effective date put on the legislation which would be after the agreement and publication of the rules of the societies.

Second, the Minister should come clean with this House regarding the rules for the societies. On a previous occasion here I mentioned that the rules of the societies had not been made available to us and said we should have available to us at least the Minister's thinking about these; otherwise we are passing legislation which enables the Minister himself to make the rules.

He has attempted to describe the societies as co-operatives. They are very strange co-operatives indeed that are not being given the right to draw up their own rules. These rules are being made by the Minister. Not only are they being made by the Minister but we do not know what rules he has in mind.

On a previous occasion I expressed my opinion that the Minister did know that the rules were to be, that he had discussed draft rules with persons outside of this House and that he had, at the very least, a fair idea what kind of rules he would make for these societies. At first he denied that he had anything in mind as regards rules. Then he tried to tell us that all he had in mind was the headings which are already contained under section 5. Then, as the debate wore on, we began to get glimpses of some of the rules the Minister had in mind. I am satisfied that the Minister already has at an advanced stage ideas or drafts of the rules for these societies and he should inform the House what those rules are before this legislation is put into effect.

There are a number of ways of doing it. One is the way Deputy Garland has suggested. A second way is that the Minister would come in, circulate the draft rules to Members before Report Stage so that we could, even at that late stage, see what exactly we are legislating for because we really are writing a blank cheque in setting up societies the rules of which we have not been told, even though we know the Minister has a very good idea what the rules will be. We should be told what those rules will be. Certainly, I will support Deputy Garland's amendment. It is one very practical way of getting the rules in place before this legislation is given effect.

Mr. McCormack

I also support this amendment. Whatever system of co-operatives is set up to replace the soon to be defunct rod licence, it is essential that everybody concerned in this long running dispute should know what the rules are to be. Yet we are being asked to pass this legislation this evening without knowing what rules will govern the co-operatives or societies that are to be set up to take in share capital to replace rod licence fees.

Where will these co-operatives be registered? When co-operatives were first established by Horace Plunkett in 1894 they were all registered with the Registrar of Friendly Societies, Hume Street. Will a new registry be formed now that we have this new unique animal of a co-operative to deal with the abolition of the rod licence; or will societies be registered with the Department of Industry and Commerce or the Department of the Marine?

As we pointed our earlier, no fewer than 16 sections of the Bill give the Minister authority to do various things. That has never happened before in the history of co-operatives, and I speak with a great knowledge of co-operatives having worked all my working life in co-operatives before arriving in this House. Never before has there been legislation giving the Minister the control over co-operatives that this Bill will give the Minister if it is enacted. Before we finally vote on this Bill this evening it is essential that the principal rules of the co-operative would be spelled out to this House and to the many interested parties.

Nobody is more aware than the Minister of the hardship and anguish caused by the introduction of the original, unnecessary legislation. We have spent three and a half years arguing for the abolition of the rod licence. Let us not be hasty on this occasion and introduce bad legislation, as was done before. That simply means that the legislation, according to the amendment, should not come into effect until such time as the rules for the regulation of societies in accordance with section 5 (1) of this Bill have been published and agreed with the regional fisheries boards and the Minister. I would be inclined to include angling interests but I will not quibble on that aspect. One way or the other, it is essential that the rules governing co-operatives would be set out here before we vote finally on this Bill.

Minister for the Marine (Mr. Wilson)

I know that in putting down this amendment Deputy Garland had the best intentions and he clarified what his thinking was. We had a long discussion on this already on other sections of the Bill and on Second Stage. The debate centred on the idea that was promulgated sometimes outside the House that the Minister had too much power under the Bill.

I embarked on what I could call a positive programme of masochism as far as the Minister was concerned taking out, one after the other, the powers that were objected to in good faith by those who contributed to the debate. I can assure Deputy Garland and Deputy Taylor-Quinn that I have no intention of bringing in the rules before there is full consultation.

In section 5 there is a reasonably detailed account, skeletally, of the rules, in other words, there are parameters and a framework for those rules. On the earlier occasion when this matter was raised I indicated that I would not finalise the rules until I had discussions with a catholic amalgam of angling interests, and that includes the regional boards. I also gave an assurance to Deputy Talor-Quinn that I have no intention of naming the commencement date until after that has been finalised.

We know the parameters and the framework. As I said, an amalgam of angling interests will be consulted. If Members of the House, and especially the spokespersons, have strong views about any specific rules I invite them to submit them to me for consideration. I would welcome contributions from Members of the House and spokespersons in particular. Any positive suggestions will be treated with the respect they deserve. As Deputy O'Sullivan rightly said, an attempt was made to tease out the various features of the Bill in the House.

Deputy Gilmore was a little pessimistic about the timing. As I indicated, the quinquennial elections, which are outside the scope of this Bill and in accordance with other legislation, are due to take place during the winter of this year and I intend everything to be in place before then. The House should be apprised of the fact that these are purely procedural rules. I made that point already during the debate. As Deputy Gilmore rightly said, the formulation of the rules is at a very advanced stage. Section 5 is very detailed and gives a good outline of the parameters which will be used. The rules are purely procedural and, of course, all the details could not be incorporated in the legislation. If we were to include all the details in regard to quorums, etc., the Bill would be a yard long.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

I welcome the Minister's invitation to Opposition spokespersons to make submissions to him. May I invite the Minister to furnish the Opposition spokespersons with a draft of the rules and regulations prior to finalising them? Perhaps he could have a meeting in his Department with the various spokespersons so that he would know our combined views about this matter. It is all very well for Opposition spokespersons to furnish their views but it would be much more helpful from the pont of view of the general and common good if we knew from what premise we were operating and the confines on us. It would be very helpful if all sides of this House could come together and state their views about these rules and regulations and if the Minister could circulate us with a draft of them before they are finalised. In that way we could either subtract or add to the views put forward by the Minister and he could choose to ignore or accept some of the combined proposals put forward by Members on this side of the House in their wisdom.

I am delighted that the approach adopted by the Minister this afternoon is more conciliatory than the approach he adopted this morning when he felt we were all due a good lecture. I think he is now beginning to recognise that we——

Mr. Gilmore

He is tired.

Mr. Wilson

I still think I was right.

Mr. G. O'Sullivan

He is being reeled in.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

It must be terrible for Ministers to have to put up with Opposition spokespersons——

Mr. Wilson

It is a joy; a thing of beauty and a joy forever.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

We strove for years to obtain a democratic system and we have only had it for 75 years. I suppose it takes some people a little longer than others to become conditioned to the democratic system. Perhaps the Minister would like to go a bit further with democracy——

Mr. Wilson

Go easy.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

I appreciate the Minister's rather tender framework at present.

Mr. Wilson

This is probably the eleventh Bill I have introduced to the Oireachtas.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

The Minister is an expert on the mechanisms of the House.

Mr. Gilmore

It will not be remembered as one of his best Bills.

Mr. Wilson

I am very proud of it.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

Section 5 sets out the rules of societies. These rules will be fundamental to the operation of the legislation. Section 5 is one of the most powerful sections of the Bill. It deals with such matters as the functions of trustees, the membership, the quorum for meetings, ballots, the establishment and management of a development fund and the guidelines for the society in relation to the disbursement of funds. Therefore, it is important that extensive consultation takes place with all the fishing interests and not just selected fishing interests. As we know from past mistakes, it is very unwise to ignore some of the various interests in this area. A wide variety of interests should be consulted, for example, the statutory groups such as the regional fishery boards and the fishery representative bodies. All of these groups together with Opposition spokespersons should be consulted about this matter. I hope the Minister sees the wisdom in doing this. As Deputy McCormack said, the mistake made in 1987 has not been resolved almost four years later.

This is not a commendable Bill and that is why Fine Gael are strongly opposed to its overall thrust. The amendment proposed by Deputy Garland would give all interested parties a greater input into the rules and regulations. I hope the Minister will be generous enough to initiate that deep consultation and circulate Members on this side of the House with the guidelines before they are finalised by him and his Department.

Mr. Wilson

The note I made about Deputy McCormacks's contribution escaped my notice. I apologise for not referring to his points when I was making my closing remarks. I appreciate the Deputy's knowledge of co-operative societies and the co-operative movement. I should like to claim spiritual brotherhood with the Deputy in that regard as my family were involved very heavily with Plunkett and George Russell — AE — in the co-operative movement during the early part of the century. I appreciate that the Deputy has worked in the system and knows about it.

The question of registration was raised in the earliest part of the debate by Deputy Gilmore and was well teased out at that time. I want to repeat that co-operative societies will be registered in the Department of the Marine. The system is parallel to the system operated by the Registrar of Friendly Societies. The whole structure of co-operative societies is ad idem with the ones with which the Deputy and I are familiar.

Mr. McCormack

My unease at this section of the Bill has been slightly lessened by the Minister's response. However, this is a complete new departure for co-operatives and we will pass this legislation without knowing exactly what the rules will be. Under this legislation these co-operatives will be registered in the Department of the Marine. This is a completely new departure from the concept of co-operatives. For the last 100 years co-operatives were registered with the Registrar of Friendly Societies at Hume Street. We will now have two locations to register co-ops which may lead to duplication and duplicity. Will one registration office have to check with the other to ensure that the co-operatives cannot have the same name and to ensure that a grant to a co-operative will not be paid to the wrong co-operative because of similarity of names?

I am concerned that the innocent rod licence dispute has led to a complicated Bill which in turn will lead to a new society to register co-ops. This may have repercussions for the co-operative movement beyond what this legislation is trying to achieve, and the Bill complicates matters beyond the subject of this Bill. I regret that the rod licence could not have been just abolished and we could then have set about collecting fees or contributions in some other manner.

I am concerned that any dispute shall be referred jointly by the angling clubs and the regional boards concerned to the Minister whose decision shall be final. That is an example of the power the Minister is retaining under this Bill.

Mr. G. O'Sullivan

The Minister is being a bit magnanimous, because he sees the winning post.

Mr. Wilson

I do not think we have scored.

Mr. G. O'Sullivan

The Minister will listen to our contributions and will agree that we should pass letters back and forth, but it will not be worth a damn at the end of the day because the Minister has the legislation in his back pocket and no matter what we do the game is over. We are being asked here to buy a pig in a poke. The Minister can be magnanimous at this stage and accept contributions from us and suggest that we can discuss things, but we can discuss this until the cows come home and it will not change the legislation. We have had no input into the Bill.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

Beyond the record which is being written.

Mr. Gilmore

The passage of this Bill has been a frustrating experience for Opposition Deputies. We are now on the last section and the Minister has thrown out a little bait, inviting us to make submissions to him. It is a remarkable invitation, given that during the course of the debate the Minister accepted one relatively small amendment from this side of the House.

Mr. Wilson

There are a couple more coming up on Report Stage.

Mr. Gilmore

We are on the final section of the Bill and the Minister wants to haul us in, because he wants us to become part of the legislation that will be an appalling failure. This is one fish that will not rise to the bait.

On the point made by Deputy McCormack about the registration of the societies, that was debated previously. I can understand why the Minister is registering these societies in the Department of the Marine. It is because the Registrar of Friendly Societies would not register those societies as co-operatives because they are not co-operatives. They do not fulfil the criteria.

In relation to this amendment on the question of drawing up rules for the societies, the Minister has arrogated this to himself. Even at this late hour the Minister has not made available to us the draft rules. Since we are at the invitation stage now, I repeat the invitation made to the Minister from Deputy Taylor-Quinn to let us have the draft rules so that before we come back to Report Stage we will know exactly the full import of the legislation before us.

Mr. Wilson

We are working on it.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

The Minister did not respond to my request that he would furnish us with the draft rules.

Mr. Wilson

They are not completed yet.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

I can appreciate that they may not be completed.

Mr. Wilson

As soon as I can.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

As soon as they are reasonably complete, without being totally complete, would it be possible to circulate them to the Opposition spokespersons?

Mr. Wilson

I will do my best. I will see how the time works out.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

You will furnish the draft rules?

Mr. Wilson

I will do my best.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

Could you not tell us that you will, rather than that you will do your best?

Mr. Wilson

The Deputy is very seductive.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

The Minister is the boss of his Department, he can make the decision.

Mr. Wilson

The Deputy is appealing to my vanity now.

Mrs. Owen

How well the Minister did not say to Deputy Gilmore that he was seductive.

Mr. Wilson

I think he is in his own way.

(Interruptions.)

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

We would get very worried if he did.

Mr. Gilmore

I know my limitations.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

The rules are fundamental, and enough difficulty and hassle has been created. We have had enough problems, and enough bitterness has been created, particularly in the west of Ireland.

Mr. Wilson

That is what I am trying to kill.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

People are still suffering from the rancour that developed as a result of the initial legislation which the Minister is now trying to change in this Bill. This Bill is not a complete answer, by a long shot. It is a very deficient answer to the difficulties that arose. We are trying to make the best of a bad lot in assisting the Minister to put together the best form of rules and regulations so that there will be as much freedom as possible and as little bureaucracy as possible. The Bill is a farce. The situation is a farce. The Fianna Fáil Party made a major political error in presenting the legislation in 1987. I appreciate the Minister's efforts since he became Minister to solve the problem, but as a result of this legislation we still have an unsatisfactory situation. The Minister would be well advised to circulate the guidelines and regulations he proposes to implement, before this legislation becomes operable.

Mr. Wilson

The Deputy mentioned bitterness. The whole purpose of this Bill is to draw the teeth of the bitterness.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

There are a lot of abscesses left, I would say.

Amendment put and declared lost.

SECTION 17.

Mr. Wilson

I move amendment No. 56:

In page 8, after section 17, to insert the following:

"SCHEDULE

Amendment of Part I of Fourth Schedule to Principal Act

`PART I

	Classes of Salmon Rod Ordinary Licences
Kind of Engine	Salmon rod (annual) ordinary licences	Salmon rod (annual) district licences	Salmon rod (twenty-one day) licences	Salmon rod (annual) juvenile licences	Salmon rod (one-day) ordinary licences
(1)	(2)	(3)	(4)	(5)	(6)
Salmon Rod	£25	£12	£10	£8	£3

'.''.

Amendment agreed to.

Section 17, as amended, agreed to.

Amendment No. 57 not moved.

TITLE.

Title agreed to.

Acting Chairman

When is it proposed to take Report Stage?

Mr. Wilson

Subject to agreement between the Whips, next Tuesday, 7 May 1991.

Acting Chairman

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Report Stage ordered for Tuesday, 7 May 1991.

Mr. G. O'Sullivan

I am sorry for interrupting but I thought we were to vote on whether the Bill should be reported.

Mr. Wilson

No vote was called.

Mr. Gilmore

It was not put.

Mr. G. O'Sullivan

I was under the impression that agreement had been reached between the Whips that a vote would take place at 6.45 p.m.

Acting Chairman

If a vote was called.

Mr. G. O'Sullivan

I did not agree to it.

Acting Chairman

I did ask for agreement.

Mr. G. O'Sullivan

I can assure you that I did not agree to it. We are looking for a vote.

Mr. McCormack

We agreed to the Title but not to the Bill.

Acting Chairman

This was agreed to earlier.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

Will there be a vote at 6.45 p.m.?

Acting Chairman

We have gone through all the procedures and a vote was not called. I have checked with the Clerk and I did ask for agreement, in proper sequence, and that agreement was forth-coming.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

No.

Mr. Wilson

It was.

(Interruptions.)

Acting Chairman

I have checked with the Clerk and have been informed that that is precisely what happened.

Mr. G. O'Sullivan

The various spokespersons agreed before lunch to cooperate. It would be a gross discourtesy to these spokespersons and to the House if a vote could not now be called.

Mr. Wilson

I am easy, but the Minister of State said that if a vote were called it would be held at 6.45 p.m.

Acting Chairman

That is my understanding also. I went through the procedures in accordance with my instructions and a vote was not called. That is the position.

Mr. G. O'Sullivan

With all due respect, I did not agree and I made my views known to the Whip of the Fianna Fáil Party on this issue. We did not agree to the Bill. I am more than surprised that the Minister who was present in the House when agreement was reached, did not——

Acting Chairman

The order reads: "By agreement, it is proposed, notwithstanding the order of the Dáil today, that if a division is demanded in Committee on the Fisheries (Amendment) Bill, 1990, the proceedings on the Bill shall be interrupted until 6.45 p.m. and the Dáil shall proceed to consider Nos. 13 and 14". As far as I am concerned, the operative words are "if a division is demanded". I went through the procedures and a division was not demanded.

Mr. Wilson

I am surprised it was not.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Gilmore

The sequence I recall you putting to us was, first, the Title of the Bill, on which there was agreement; then a date for Report Stage. I do not recall a question being put to us whether the Bill should be reported. Had such a question been put to us, we would certainly have called for a division.

Acting Chairman

The Deputy is correct, but that question is not put on Committee Stage. What I have done is in order. I am sorry if there is any misunderstanding but what I have done was in accordance with instructions. I have been advised that I followed the instructions to the letter. I was surprised, and the Minister has indicated that he too was surprised, that a vote was not called, but if there is a difficulty here, it is on your own heads as far as I am concerned. I have a job to do.

Mr. Flanagan

May I be of assistance to the Chair in this matter? I do not want to put any interpretation on your ruling which is at variance with what you read out——

Acting Chairman

It is not at variance.

Mr. Flanagan

——but I put it to you that Committee Stage has not been completed and you did not request agreement of the House to the completion of Committee Stage. The agreement of the House was that Committee Stage would be completed by having a vote at 6.45 p.m.

Mr. G. O'Sullivan

That is correct.

Mr. Wilson

It is not exactly as Deputy Flanagan said. What the Chair and I said was that if a vote were called it would be taken at 6.45 p.m., but if it would help you, Sir, I would have no objection to a vote, which has been demanded by the various spokespersons, being taken at 6.45 p.m. If, in your wisdom, you can accede to this, I have no objection to it, but I must say when the procedure was developing——

Acting Chairman

Correctly developing.

Mr. Wilson

——I was surprised that nobody called at that stage for a vote because the outline of the procedure, that a vote be called at 6.45 p.m., had been given to the House by the Minister of State, Deputy Gallagher.

Acting Chairman

Thank you for your co-operation.

Mr. Cowen

They blew it.

(Interruptions.)

Minister of State at the Department of the Gaeltacht (Mr. Gallagher)

The position has been made clear by the Minister but I have to say in all honesty that the intention was that a vote would be called at this stage, and it would be taken at 6.45 p.m. It appears there has been a misunderstanding — that is no reflection on the Chair — and I would greatly appreciate it——

Acting Chairman

I have to finish this now. I went through the procedure in accordance with the instructions outlined for me. I am not experienced in this matter but I know precisely how to follow instructions. I followed those instructions having checked with the officials. I checked subsequently with the officials to ensure I went through the correct procedure. A vote was not called when it ought to have been called so the matter, as far as I am concerned, is finished. We dealt with the Title and we are going on to the next business.

(Interruptions.)

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

Sir, the question has not been put to this House in relation to the Fisheries Bill. The Title was put, end of story. The Chair then proceeded to seek a date for Report Stage. It is very clear from the Government Whip, from the Opposition Whips and from all people concerned that the intention was that there would be a vote on the Bill at this stage.

Mr. Wilson

If called.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

It is very clear and that is the wish of everybody.

A Deputy

It is not.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

I am now calling a vote.

Acting Chairman

I am afraid we have passed from that. The operative wording here is, "if a division is demanded". The fact that a division was not demanded is not the fault of the Chair, it is the fault of the Deputies, who now say they want a division and did not at that time.

(Interruptions.)

A Deputy

Even if you had put the words——

Acting Chairman

It is a matter of record that can be checked at a later stage.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

The question was not put. I am calling a vote on the Fisheries (Amendment) Bill, 1990.

Mr. Gilmore

Sir, may I ask if a question was put to the House that this Bill be reported?

Mr. McCormack

It was not.

Mr. Gilmore

Was a question put, that Committee Stage be completed and the Bill be reported to the House?

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

It was not put.

Mr. Gilmore

I have no recollection of that question being put to us.

Acting Chairman

It was not a necessary question to put to the House.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

It is a necessary question and that is the normal procedure. Precedent will show specifically that the Chair has not put the necessary question, as is normal at this Stage.

Mr. Gallagher

I was the one involved and I must say, in all honesty, that it was the intention, otherwise it would not have been necessary to have brought in this statement. The final decision is with the Chair, but I am of the opinion that there may have been a misunderstanding and people may not have been familiar with the procedure. I would welcome the opportunity of a vote at 6.45 p.m. and that was the intention.

Acting Chairman

The Minister of State is trying to be co-operative as, indeed, is the Minister. I will once more, because of my inexperience, take advice on this issue, but I want to make it very clear that I followed the procedure in the Chair exactly as I ought to have done. The Deputies who are calling for a vote now are doing so a little late.

Deputies

No.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

You are steamrolling it through.

Acting Chairman

It will be all a matter for the record. There is no question of steamrolling on my part and the Deputy knows that. I am trying to do the job of the Chair. I want to check with the Clerk to see if the suggestion can be accommodated.

In view of what happened, I stand by the fact that the Chair was correct in the procedure. Due to procedural matters we cannot proceed, but the Minister, and the Minister of State, are very anxious to accommodate the Deputies who are seeking a vote. All I can propose now is that we adjourn for five minutes to allow the Minister of State to put together an amending order. Is that agreed?

Deputies

Agreed.

Sitting suspended at 4.45 p.m. and resumed at 4.50 p.m.

Acting Chairman

I call on the Minister of State to move the amending order.

Mr. P. Gallagher

I move: "That notwithstanding the Order of the House and the subsequent proceedings on the Fisheries (Amendment) Bill, 1991, the question on the Title of the Bill shall be put from the Chair at 6.45 p.m. this evening".

Question put and agreed to.