Dáil Éireann debate -
Friday, 10 May 1991

Vol. 408 No. 3

Local Government Bill, 1991: Second Stage (Resumed).

The following motion was moved by the Minister for the Environment on Tuesday, 7 May 1991:

That the Bill be now read a Second Time.

Debate resumed on the following amendment:

To delete all words after "That" and substitute the following:

"having regard to:

the clear intention of the Government to provide by law for the gerrymandering of electoral areas in the County Boroughs of Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Waterford and Galway; and

the undemocratic and incompetent arrangements proposed by the Government for the debating of the Bill; and

the failure of the Bill to deal effectively with the crisis in local services, including housing, roads and local financing;

Dáil Éireann declines to give a Second Reading to the Bill."

—(Deputy Howlin.)

Minister for the Environment (Mr. Flynn)

I thank Deputies for their generally constructive contributions on the Second Reading of the Bill. I will respond to as many of the large number of points that were made as possible. While some matters which were raised were based on misunderstandings and misconceptions about the contents and purpose of the Bill, I will do my best to clarify these matters as I go along.

The first point I should deal with is that raised by Deputy Mitchell at the start of his contribution and the question of confidence as regards his premature disclosure of the contents of the Bill. The Deputy really should look at the document which was given to him last week. The Deputy had it in the House with him earlier this week. It was a proof of the Bill. The Bill was not printed at that stage.

Mr. J. Mitchell

The Bill is dated 2 May. We will not have any more untruths in the House.

Mr. Flynn

The Bill was not printed.

Mr. J. Mitchell

Thursday, 2 May — it is not the proof of the Bill.

Mr. Flynn

The proof that was given to the Deputy, or to the Whip of his party, contained many misspellings and other errors, and the Deputy knows that.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Flynn

The first thing I would like to do——

Mr. J. Mitchell

The Bill was issued on Thursday, 2 May. Anyone can check that. It is official.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Flynn

All I can say about that is——

Mr. Flanagan

There are more flaws than misspellings in the legislation.

Mr. Flynn

——that we had the courtesy to give an advance proof copy of the Bill. It should have been respected in that way. I know that Deputy Mitchell recognises this.

Mr. J. Mitchell

On a point of order——

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle

The time available to the Minister is very limited.

Mr. J. Mitchell

On a point of order, I would ask the Chair if it is correct that the Bill was issued on 2 May under your authority? It is printed here on the Bill — Thursday 2 May, the day on which I made my contribution.

An Ceann Comhairle

Allow the Minister to——

Mr. J. Mitchell

The Minister is trying to mislead the House. He is trying to pretend——

An Ceann Comhairle

Please, Deputy Mitchell.

Mr. J. Mitchell

Will the Chair clarify——

An Ceann Comhairle

I am not in any position to clarify that matter.

Mr. J. Mitchell

Could we have some clarification from your office?

An Ceann Comhairle

This is not a court of law.

Mr. J. Mitchell

Could we have clarification from your office?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Minister, please.

Mr. Flynn

The first thing with which Deputy Mitchell was concerned was that perhaps there was too much power for the Minister in the Bill. The statement of the representational role of the local authorities is stated for the first time in section 5. They have a right to make an input on behalf of the local community into other State agencies. In section 6 there is a general competence power which for the first time ever will allow local authorities to take action that they consider appropriate to promote their area and community. This is a departure from the present restrictive and outdated ultra vires principle which has been a legal strait jacket for local government. This will bring us into line with what applies in local government in most European countries. I draw the attention of the House also to section 8 which confirms that local authorities have power to take all measures which are incidental or related to their specific legal functions. This is not a restrictive or authoritarian approach. For the first time ever local authorities are being given real power to take action as they see necessary. These provisions are in line with the report of the expert committee to which the Deputies referred.

The powers of the Minister are mostly contained in section 9. This power is given to enable the Minister and the Government to devolve additional functions on local authorities and to enable the Minister to make adjustments between local authorities.

Under section 13 Ministers and Ministers of State are disqualified from Membership of local authorities. Section 52 gives power to remove outdated and restrictive statutory controls. Under this section I intend to remove a range of unnecessary outdated controls which require local authorities to obtain approval and sanction from the Minister for a variety of minor matters. These powers for the Minister are designed to increase the freedom of local authorities. All of these powers are recommended by the expert committee.

There are certain fall-back controls available to the Minister should they prove necessary. These are simply a safeguard. The Minister can set limits for certain expenditure by local authorities under general competence provisions. There is nothing new here. This is needed to maintain a proper perspective on public finances generally. This was called for by many Deputies during the debate. It also determines travelling and other expenses payable to local authority members. Travelling expenses are currently fixed by the Minister as we know, and this is necessary to maintain reasonable balance throughout the public sector and to maintain the necessary control in public finances. Nobody could be against that. This power is to assist in the establishment of a joint committee of two local authorities. This would only arise in exceptional cases where there was a clear lack of co-ordination between authorities, or to deal with a problem straddling local authority boundaries. This was called for on many occasions. A fair-minded person could not possibly read the Bill and conclude other than that its main thrust is to confer major new powers on local authorities, and such residual powers as are vested in the Minister are necessary and will be used sparingly. There was some question raised by Deputies on the question of electoral areas in the cities and the county boundaries. There is nothing new in this section. The section I referred to is section 12.

Mr. Rabbitte

It is the same old 1985 hogwash.

Mr. Flynn

That section simply restates the existing legal provisions scattered throughout half a dozen different Acts.

Mr. Rabbitte

Is that not a pity?

Mr. Flynn

There is no new power here for the Minister.

Mr. Quinn

Where is the reform?

Mr. Durkan

There is no reform.

Mr. Quinn

Exactly.

Mr. Rabbitte

The Minister is keeping it to himself.

Mr. Flynn

The revision of local electoral areas in county boroughs, under the current law, can be implemented by the Minister, as can local electoral areas in counties to which the 1941 Local Government Act applies. The real purpose behind section 12 is simply to tidy up the current law and to ratify the Galway situation.

Mr. Howlin

You will do a nice job of tidying.

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle

Please, Deputies.

Mr. Flynn

Because of an oversight by the Coalition Government in 1985, the Local Government (Reorganisation) Act, 1985 contains no provision to revise electoral areas in Galway, and this was raised with me by Galway Corporation some time ago. However, it was impossible to make the adjustment that they requested. There is no intention whatsoever to revise local electoral areas before the June election and I can give an absolute and categorical assurance of this fact.

The Bill provides for an independent boundary review commission which can be given the task of carrying out any review which may be considered necessary.

Mr. J. Mitchell

I can see now why the Minister, Deputy Molloy, is so interested in this Bill.

Mr. Flynn

Deputies Howlin and Gilmore had something to say about the question of general competence. A number of Deputies have criticised section 6 of the Bill which will confer general competence on local authorities so far as subsection (6) is concerned. This subsection prohibits action by local authorities which would prejudice or duplicate activities from the performance of a statutory function by any person or would involve wasteful or unnecessary expenditure. The question has been raised whether this subsection could actually limit the existing powers of local authorities in such areas as tourism, industrial development and the arts and other statutory bodies where they are operating by having the effect of precluding action by local authorities. I can assure Deputies that this will not be the case and, indeed, that the subsection has been carefully worded to avoid such a situation. What the subsection focuses on is activity and this is to make it clear that the mere fact that a statutory body has powers or functions in a given area will not preclude a local authority from becoming involved in this area. It is only at that level of activity that the subsection would have effect to ensure that wasteful and unnecessary expenditure does not arise. For example——

Mr. Howlin

They can spend money?

Mr. Durkan

If they have any to spend.

Mr. Flynn

If a regional tourism organisation proposed to provide a tourist facility on one side of the street, then obviously the subsection would preclude the local authority concerned from providing an identical facility on the other side.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Flynn

In fact, regular and open consultations and co-operation by local authorities with other public bodies as required by section 7 of the Bill should avoid most if not all of the problems which could otherwise arise under subsection (6).

Some Deputies spoke about committees of local authorities referred to in Part VI of the Bill. Here again we have Opposition spokesmen misreading and, I have to say, misleading. This Part restates and modernises the existing law.

Mr. Connor

What about the charges of Mayo County Council?

Mr. Flynn

Modernisation of the general law relating to local authorities was specifically recommended by the expert committee and Part VI of the Bill represents a significant step in this direction so far as committees and joint committees are concerned.

Mr. J. Mitchell

Answer one question. Will they be pro rata committees or not? Answer the question.

Mr. McCormack

Answer Deputy Connor's question too.

Mr. Flynn

I intend to. Contrary to what was alleged about the danger of local authorities delegating functions to a special committee, a function cannot be delegated unless more than half of the total membership of the authority vote in favour.

Mr. J. Mitchell

All of Fianna Fáil.

Mr. Flynn

There is no such stipulation in existing law. A simple majority of those at a meeting would suffice. Furthermore, local government law as it applies to committees and joint committees gives a right to representation by minority groups on such committees under section 27 of the Local Government (Reorganisation) Act, 1985.

Mr. J. Mitchell

And this overrules it.

Mr. Flynn

It does not.

Mr. J. Mitchell

We will see.

Mr. Flynn

Contrary to what is being suggested by members of the Opposition, particularly Deputy Mitchell, I can assure the House that section 27 of that legislation will apply to all appointments to committees pursuant to Part VI of the Bill. The establishment of committees will be a matter for the local authorities concerned and they can be tailored to suit local circumstances. In most cases it may be seen as a means of ensuring more effective performance and focus on local issues. In others the authority may decide to operate it on a full council basis. There is no change except that we are making it possible to do it under law.

Mr. J. Mitchell

What the Minister is saying is not correct.

Mr. Durkan

The Minister has heard about the horse that was designed by a committee.

Mr. Flynn

A number of Deputies expressed reservations about the powers conferred on the Minister in the Bill to issue directions. I would like to make it clear that these are residual powers which I would hope would never have to be used. Indeed, no Minister for the Environment would lightly issue directions to local authorities on any subject unless it was deemed essential to do so.

Mr. J. Mitchell

Except on the colour of toilet paper.

Mr. Flynn

From the way members of the Opposition have spoken on this matter one would think that the exercise of these powers was mandatory and that the Minister for the Environment was hell bent on destroying the whole system.

Mr. Howlin

Did you order them to fill the potholes?

Mr. Flynn

Such notions are far removed from reality and certainly do not deserve serious consideration.

Mr. J. Mitchell

Could we get to the colour of toilet paper?

Mr. Flynn

If, as I expect, local authorities exercise the many new powers being conferred on them by this Bill in a responsible and reasonable manner, then neither I nor any of my successors would need to use any powers whatsoever.

Mr. Rabbitte

And if they do not?

Mr. Quinn

Who decides what is responsible or reasonable?

Mr. Flynn

In the meantime, as this House has so often stated on many other occasions dealing with many other pieces of legislation, certainly prudent precautionary powers need to be available to any Minister in the wider public interest.

Mr. Quinn

Was it responsible to abolish——

Mr. Flynn

Nothing more than that has been provided for in this legislation. It is quite interesting how the debate went. Some of the Opposition parties adopted a number of contradictory positions in relation to the provisions of the Bill. Nowhere is this clearer than in relation to its overall content.

Mr. Rabbitte

This is the good bit.

Mr. Flynn

At one level we had speaker after speaker complaining about the length and the complexity of the Bill, the lack of time to consider and discuss it fully and how unsatisfactory the whole thing was. We got that from a certain type of contribution.

Mr. Rabbitte

Type?

Mr. Quinn

The sort the Minister used to offer every week when he was here.

Mr. Flynn

Yet, practically every second speaker proceeded to complain that the Bill does not have enough powers and provisions, including provisions relating to the financing of local authorities, housing, roads and so on.

Mr. Durkan

That is a sore subject.

Mr. Flynn

Some speakers have even complained that not all the recommendations in the report of the expert committee are being implemented in what is only the first phase of the reorganisation programme. If all these matters were to be provided for in the Bill, we know the kind of Bill we would have. We could not get an understanding among the Opposition. Some wanted more in the Bill and some wanted less; some said the Minister did not have enough power, some said he was getting too much. Such inherent contradictions are typical of the approach of the Opposition parties.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Flynn

Opportunistic in the extreme, many of the contributions were illogical and cynical. They were designed to mislead, and certain of the leading spokesmen went out of their way to mislead the House.

Mr. J. Mitchell

Bring on "Scrap Saturday".

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Flynn

I would suggest that generally the perception of this Bill both in the House and outside it is favourable.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. J. Mitchell

You are gerrymandering.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am sorry to interrupt the Minister but in accordance with the Order of An Dáil of 7 May 1991 I am putting the question in respect of amendment No. 1 in the name of Deputy Brendan Howlin. The Question is "That the words proposed to be deleted stand."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 75; Níl, 70.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies V. Brady and Clohessy; Níl, Deputies Flanagan and Howlin.

• Tá
• Allen, Bernard.
• Barrett, Seán.
• Belton, Louis J.
• Boylan, Andrew.
• Bradford, Paul.
• Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).
• Bruton, John.
• Bruton, Richard.
• Byrne, Eric.
• Doyle, Joe.
• Dukes, Alan.
• Durkan, Bernard.
• Farrelly, John V.
• Fennell, Nuala.
• Ferris, Michael.
• Finucane, Michael.
• FitzGerald, Garret.
• Flaherty, Mary.
• Flanagan, Charles.
• Foxe, Tom.
• Garland, Roger.
• Gilmore, Eamon.
• Gregory, Tony.
• Harte, Paddy.
• Higgins, Jim.
• Higgins, Michael D.
• Hogan, Philip.
• Howlin, Brendan.
• Kavanagh, Liam.
• Kemmy, Jim.
• Kenny, Enda.
• Lee, Pat.
• Lowry, Michael.
• McCartan, Pat.
• McCormack, Pádraic.
• McGahon, Brendan.
• Connaughton, Paul.
• Connor, John.
• Cosgrave, Michael Joe.
• Cotter, Bill.
• Creed, Michael.
• Crowley, Frank.
• Currie, Austin.
• Deasy, Austin.
• Deenihan, Jimmy.
• McGinley, Dinny.
• Mac Giolla, Tomás.
• Mitchell, Gay.
• Mitchell, Jim.
• Moynihan, Michael.
• Nealon, Ted.
• Noonan, Michael.
• (Limerick East).
• O'Brien, Fergus.
• O'Shea, Brian.
• O'Sullivan, Gerry.
• O'Sullivan, Toddy.
• Owen, Nora.
• Pattison, Séamus.
• Quinn, Ruairí.
• Rabbitte, Pat.
• Reynolds, Gerry.
• Ryan, Seán.
• Shatter, Alan.
• Sheehan, Patrick J.
• Sherlock, Joe.
• Spring, Dick.
• Stagg, Emmet.
• Taylor, Mervyn.
• Taylor-Quinn, Madeleine.
• Timmins, Godfrey.
• Yates, Ivan.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies McCartan and Howlin; Níl, Deputies V. Brady and Clohessy.

• Tá
• Ahern, Dermot.
• Ahern, Michael.
• Andrews, David.
• Aylward, Liam.
• Barrett, Michael.
• Brady, Gerard.
• Brady, Vincent.
• Brennan, Mattie.
• Brennan, Séamus.
• Briscoe, Ben.
• Browne, John (Wexford).
• Calleary, Seán.
• Callely, Ivor.
• Clohessy, Peadar.
• Connolly, Ger.
• Coughlan, Mary Theresa.
• Cowen, Brian.
• Cullimore, Séamus.
• Daly, Brendan.
• Davern, Noel.
• Dempsey, Noel.
• Dennehy, John.
• de Valera, Síle.
• Ellis, John.
• Fahey, Frank.
• Fahey, Jackie.
• Fitzpatrick, Dermot.
• Flood, Chris.
• Flynn, Pádraig.
• Gallagher, Pat the Cope.
• Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
• Harney, Mary.
• Haughey, Charles J.
• Hillery, Brian.
• Hilliard, Colm.
• Hyland, Liam.
• Jacob, Joe.
• Kelly, Laurence.
• Kenneally, Brendan.
• Kirk, Séamus.
• Kitt, Michael P.
• Kitt, Tom.
• Lawlor, Liam.
• Lenihan, Brian.
• Leonard, Jimmy.
• Leyden, Terry.
• Lyons, Denis.
• Martin, Micheál.
• McCreevy, Charlie.
• McDaid, Jim.
• McEllistrim, Tom.
• Molloy, Robert.
• Morley, P.J.
• Nolan, M. J.
• Noonan, Michael J.
• (Limerick West).
• O'Connell, John.
• O'Dea, Willie.
• O'Donoghue, John.
• O'Keeffe, Ned.
• O'Kennedy, Michael.
• O'Leary, John.
• O'Malley, Desmond J.
• O'Rourke, Mary.
• O'Toole, Martin Joe.
• Power, Seán.
• Quill, Máirín.
• Roche, Dick.
• Smith, Michael.
• Stafford, John.
• Wallace, Dan.
• Wallace, Mary.
• Walsh, Joe.
• Wilson, John P.
• Woods, Michael.
• Wyse, Pearse.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies V. Brady and Clohessy; Níl, Deputies McCartan and Flanagan.

Question declared carried.

Tá

Ahern, Dermot.Ahern, Michael.Andrews, David.Aylward, Liam.Barrett, Michael.Brady, Gerard.Brady, Vincent.Brennan, Mattie.Brennan, Séamus.Briscoe, Ben.Browne, John (Wexford).Calleary, Seán.Callely, Ivor.Clohessy, Peadar.Connolly, Ger.Coughlan, Mary Theresa.Cowen, Brian.Cullimore, Séamus.Daly, Brendan.Davern, Noel.Dempsey, Noel. Lawlor, Liam.Lenihan, Brian.Leonard, Jimmy.Leyden, Terry.Lyons, Denis.Martin, Micheál.McCreevy, Charlie.McDaid, Jim.McEllistrim, Tom.Molloy, Robert.Morley, P.J.Nolan, M.J.Noonan, Michael J.(Limerick West.O'Connell, John.O'Dea, Willie.O'Donoghue, John.

Dennehy, John.de Valera, Síle.Ellis, John.Fahey, Frank.Fahey, Jackie.Fitzpatrick, Dermot.Flood, Chris.Flynn, Pádraig.Gallagher, Pat the Cope.Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.Harney, Mary.Haughey, Charles J.Hillery, Brian.Hilliard, Colm.Hyland, Liam.Jacob, Joe.Kelly, Laurence.Kenneally, Brendan.Kirk, Séamus.Kitt, Michael P.Kitt, Tom. O'Keeffe, Ned.O'Kennedy, Michael.O'Leary, John.O'Malley, Desmond J.O'Rourke, Mary.O'Toole, Martin Joe.Power, Seán.Quill, Máirín.Roche, Dick.Smith, Michael.Stafford, John.Wallace, Dan.Wallace, Mary.Walsh, Joe.Wilson, John P.Woods, Michael.Wyse, Pearse.

Níl

Allen, Bernard.Barrett, Seán.Belton, Louis J.Boylan, Andrew.Bradford, Paul.Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).Bruton, John.Bruton, Richard.Byrne, Eric.Connaughton, Paul.Connor, John.Cosgrave, Michael Joe.Cotter, Bill.Creed, Michael.Crowley, Frank.Currie, Austin.Deasy, Austin.Deenihan, Jimmy.Doyle, Joe.Dukes, Alan.Durkan, Bernard.Farrelly, John V.Fennell, Nuala.Ferris, Michael.Finucane, Michael.FitzGerald, Garret.Flaherty, Mary.Flanagan, Charles.Foxe, Tom.Gilmore, Eamon.Gregory, Tony.Harte, Paddy.Higgins, Jim.Higgins, Michael D.Hogan, Philip.

Howlin, Brendan.Kavanagh, Liam.Kemmy, Jim.Kenny, Enda.Lee, Pat.Lowry, Michael.McCartan, Pat.McCormack, Pádraic.McGahon, Brendan.McGinley, Dinny.Mac Giolla, Tomás.Mitchell, Gay.Mitchell, Jim.Moynihan, Michael.Nealon, Ted.Noonan, Michael.(Limerick East).O'Brien, Fergus.O'Shea, Brian.O'Sullivan, Gerry.O'Sullivan, Toddy.Owen, Nora.Pattison, Séan.Quinn, Ruairí.Rabbitte, Pat.Reynolds, Gerry.Ryan, SeánShatter, Alan.Sherlock, Joe.Spring, Dick.Stagg, Emment.Taylor, Mervyn.Taylor-Quinn, Madeleine.Timmins, Godfrey.Yates, Ivan.

Amendment declared lost.

An Ceann Comhairle

Amendment No. 2 in the name of Deputy Eamon Gilmore falls. In accordance with Standing Order 93 (2) I declare the Bill to be read a Second Time. The question arises as to when Committee Stage of the Bill will be taken.

Minister for the Environment (Mr. Flynn)

I move: "That Committee Stage be ordered for Tuesday next, 14 May 1991", subject to the agreement of the Whips.

Mr. J. Mitchell

We will not agree to taking this shambles of a Bill next Tuesday. We need far more time to clarify each section. We should have at least another week.

Mr. Howlin

I strongly protest at the timetabling of the Bill for Committee Stage next Tuesday. This gives no time for consideration of reasoned amendments. I appeal to the Minister not to repeat the shambles we had last year in relation to the Broadcasting Bill and to allow the Opposition parties time to consult with all the agencies, individuals and authorities in order to table reasoned and constructive amendments so that the Bill when passed will be legislation of which we can be proud. I appeal for at least another week.

Mr. Gilmore

I will move an amendment to the Minister's proposal that Committee Stage be ordered for Tuesday, 21 May 1991. This would give us another week to prepare for Committee Stage. It is quite outrageous that we are given such short notice. The Bill contains 55 sections and is so inadequate that it will require considerable amendment.

I move: "That Committee Stage be ordered for Tuesday 21 May 1991."

Mr. Howlin

Will the Minister respond? A constructive and civilised approach is in all our interests and in the interests of democracy.

The Taoiseach

I would like to say very briefly that this is a completely unnecessary obstruction of a piece of legislation.

Mr. Howlin

Is it an obstruction to ask for a period of one week before the next stage?

The Taoiseach

I have already explained that the Government have leaned over backwards to facilitate the Opposition——

Mr. Howlin

Rubbish.

The Taoiseach

——that we have given an inordinate amount of time for Second Stage and adequate time for Committee Stage.

Mr. J. Mitchell

There were 19 Deputies to speak.

The Taoiseach

The amount of time we are giving is quite appropriate for legislation of this kind.

Deputy J. Mitchell rose.

An Ceann Comhairle

I have heard the views of the spokespersons for the Opposition.

Amendment put.

The Dáil divided: Tá, 71; Níl, 75.

Amendment declared lost.

Níl

Ahern, Dermot.Ahern, Michael.Andrews, David.Aylward, Liam.Barrett, Michael.Brady, Gerard.Brady, Vincent.Brennan, Mattie.Brennan, Séamus.Briscoe, Ben.Browne, John (Wexford).Calleary, Seán.Callely, Ivor.Clohessy, Peadar.Connolly, Ger.Coughlan, Mary Theresa.Cowen, Brian.Cullimore, Séamus.Daly, Brendan.Davern, Noel.Dempsey, Noel.Dennehy, John.de Valera, Síle.Ellis, John.Fahey, Frank.Fahey, Jackie.Fitzpatrick, Dermot.Flood, Chris.Flynn, Pádraig.Gallagher, Pat the Cope.Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.Harney, Mary.Haughey, Charles J.Hillery, Brian.Hilliard, Colm. Wallace, Dan.Wallace, Mary.Walsh, Joe.

Hyland, Liam.Jacob, Joe.Kelly, Laurence.Kenneally, Brendan.Kirk, Séamus.Kitt, Michael P.Kitt, Tom.Lawlor, Liam.Lenihan, Brian.Leonard, Jimmy.Leyden, Terry.Lyons, Denis.Martin, Micheál.McCreevy, Charlie.McDaid, Jim.McEllistrim, Tom.Molloy, Robert.Morley, P.J.Nolan, M.J.Noonan, Michael J.(Limerick West).)O'Connell, John.O'Dea, Willie.O'Donoghue, John.O'Keeffe, Ned.O'Kennedy, Michael.O'Leary, John.O'Malley, Desmond J.O'Rourke, Mary.O'Toole, Martin Joe.Power, Seán.Quill, Máirín.Roche, Dick.Smith, Michael.Stafford, John. Wilson, John P.Woods, Michael.Wyse, Pearse.

Question put: "That Committee Stage be ordered for Tuesday, 14 May 1991".

The Dáil divided: Tá, 75; Níl, 70.

Question declared carried.

Níl

Allen, Bernard.Barrett, Seán.Belton, Louis J.Boylan, Andrew.Bradford, Paul.Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).)Bruton, John.Bruton, Richard.Byrne, Eric.Connaughton, Paul. Durkan, Bernard.Farrelly, John V.Fennell, Nuala.Ferris, Michael.Finucane, Michael.FitzGerald, Garret.Flaherty, Mary.Flanagan, Charles.Foxe, Tom.Garland, Roger.Gilmore, Eamon.Gregory, Tony.Harte, Paddy.Higgins, Jim.Higgins, Michael D.Hogan, Philip.Howlin, Brendan.Kavanagh, Liam.Kemmy, Jim.Kenny, Enda.Lee, Pat.Lowry, Michael.McCartan, Pat.McCormack, Pádraic.McGahon, Brendan.

Connor, John.Cosgrave, Michael Joe.Cotter, Bill.Creed, Michael.Crowley, Frank.Currie, Austin.Deasy, Austin.Deenihan, Jimmy.Doyle, Joe.Dukes, Alan. McGinley, Dinny.Mac Giolla, Tomás.Mitchell, Gay.Mitchell, Jim.Moynihan, Michael.Nealon, Ted.Noonan, Michael.(Limerick East).)O'Brien, Fergus.O'Shea, Brian.O'Sullivan, Gerry.O'Sullivan, Toddy.Owen, Nora.Pattison, Séamus.Quinn, Ruairí.Rabbitte, Pat.Reynolds, Gerry.Ryan, Seán.Shatter, Alan.Sheehan, Patrick J.Spring, Dick.Stagg, Emmet.Taylor, Mervyn.Taylor-Quinn, Madeleine.Timmins, Godfrey.Yates, Ivan.

The Dáil adjourned at 4.45 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 14 May 1991.