Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 15 May 1991

Vol. 408 No. 5

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Defence Forces Financial Control.

Michael Bell

Question:

22 Mr. Bell asked the Minister for Defence if he has any plans to change the present system of financial control of the Defence Forces following the recent report of the study group which recommended its transfer from the Civil Service to the office of the Chief of Staff; his views on whether the present system is (1) wasteful, (2) expensive, (3) counterproductive, (4) prejudical to efficient resources allocations within the military establishment, (5) neglectful of military managerial training and (6) can undermine military morale; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Pat Rabbitte

Question:

35 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Minister for Defence if the Government intend to implement the report of the efficiency audit group in regard to his Department; if it is intended to publish the report in full; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Séamus Pattison

Question:

40 Mr. Pattison asked the Minister for Defence if he will outline the status of the Government appointed efficiency audit group; and if it is intended to implement their recommendations, as they relate to his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Michael Bell

Question:

66 Mr. Bell asked the Minister for Defence whether a report on his Department, as discussed at the recent annual conference of the Public Service Executive Union, has been presented to him by the efficiency audit group; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Mr. Daly

I propose to take Questions Nos. 22, 35, 40 and 66 together. As indicated by the Minister for Finance in reply to a question from Deputy Bell on 8 May 1991, the efficiency audit group who report to the Taoiseach are considering a report arising from a review of my Department. The efficiency audit group have not yet submitted their report. For the avoidance of doubt, however, I should add that I do not accept the description of the present system as outlined in Deputy Bell's Question No. 22.

Mr. McCartan

Have the Government and Cabinet considered the findings of this report in view of the obvious savings to Government finances which would be involved if the report is implemented? If they have not considered this, will the Minister say how soon he considers the Cabinet will do so and when decisions will be made on the implementation of the recommendations?

Mr. Daly

The efficiency audit group have not yet submitted a report. A survey carried out by a working group may be causing confusion. Copies of the report of the working party were made available to senior management in the Department of Defence and the staff unions in late March and they were asked for their comments. The working group consisted of officers of the Departments of the Taoiseach, Finance and Defence, as well as an officer on loan to the Department of Finance. We have not yet received a final report from the efficiency audit group and I think it is premature to discuss what may be contained in it before we receive it.

Mr. Ryan

According to media comments about the report, it appears that 160 to 166 job losses or redundancies are envisaged. If that is the case will the Minister hold discussions with those groups who represent the staff?

Mr. Daly

I recently received a request for a meeting with the two unions involved, the Association of Higher Civil Servants and the Public Service Executive Union, to discuss the present position with them. I have no objection to meeting with them. I have not communicated with them as yet but I intend doing so in a positive way.

An Ceann Comhairle

A final question from Deputy McCartan.

Mr. McCartan

I have to put it to the Minister that he is being evasive on this matter. He has described the document as a survey rather than a report. The national media talk about submissions and recommendations while the Minister has told us he is negotiating with the unions. Be it a survey or a report, would he confirm, if whatever document is in circulation at present contains specific recommendations and if he intends to publish it at any stage? Furthermore, is he in a position to indicate if specific decisions will be taken to make the administration of the Defence Forces more efficient and to deploy staff?

Mr. Daly

The efficiency audit group are at present considering a report which they received from a working group. As the Deputy is aware, the efficiency audit group report to the Taoiseach. The question whether the report of the efficiency audit group should be published does not arise as no report has been received but it can be considered at the appropriate time. What we have at present——

Mr. McCartan

Is a series of recommendations from a working group.

Mr. Daly

A working group have drawn up a report which has been made available to the Department and the unions. Following this, the unions sought a meeting with me. I have not responded to their request as yet but if the Deputies would like me to meet with them I will do so. I hope the Deputies are quite clear about this matter.

Deputy Ryan rose.

An Ceann Comhairle

Please let us get on to another question. A very brief question, Deputy Ryan.

Mr. Ryan

It appears that the recommendations are being acted upon notwithstanding the fact that they are vague and unofficial. I am greatly concerned about this matter.

An Ceann Comhairle

Question No. 24, please.