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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 5 Jun 1991

Vol. 409 No. 4

Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Urban Poverty Report.

Emmet Stagg

Question:

6 Mr. Stagg asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will outline his views on the finding of the recent Combat Poverty Agency report on urban poverty which found that (1) Ireland has one of the highest levels of poverty in the EC, (2) the poverty rate is growing and (3) conventional economic growth strategies will do little to alleviate the levels of poverty; in view of these findings, if he will outline the new measures he proposes to introduce to reverse this situation; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Patrick McCartan

Question:

22 Mr. McCartan asked the Minister for Social Welfare if his attention has been drawn to the findings of the recent study on urban poverty in Ireland published by the Combat Poverty Agency at a conference on 20 May 1991 which showed that poverty in Ireland was one of the worst in Europe and was growing; if, in view of these findings the Government intend to take any new measures to combat poverty; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

I propose to take Questions Nos. 6 and 22 together.

A report entitled Urban Poverty, the Economy and Public Policy was published by the Combat Poverty Agency on 20 May 1991. The statistical information concerning poverty rates included in the report relates in the case of Ireland to 1973, 1980 and 1985. The significant improvements we have made during the past four years in the rates of social welfare payments are not reflected in the statistical analysis in the report.

For example, in the period July 1987 to July 1991 the personal rate of long term unemployment assistance increased by over 45 per cent. This is an increase of 27.5 per cent in real terms. In the same period, the rate payable to a married couple on the short term rate of unemployment assistance or supplementary welfare allowance increased by 41 per cent, almost 24 per cent in real terms.

This year we have again provided special increases to those on the lower rates of payments. The personal rates of short term unemployment assistance and supplementary welfare allowance are being increased by over 11 per cent. Families on these payments will receive increases of over 9 per cent. Families of those on unemployment benefit and disability benefit will also receive increases ranging up to 7 per cent. These increases take effect from next month.

The key issue arising from the report referred to is the need for an integrated approach in tackling the problems of disadvantaged communities and particularly the problem of long term unemployment. The value of an integrated approach of this nature was also stressed in the NESC report entitled, A Strategy for the Nineties.

The need for such an integrated approach is in keeping with the Government's area based response to long term unemployment as set out in the Programme for Economic and Social Progress. This innovative approach in combating long term unemployment complements initiatives which I have already taken in introducing greater flexibility in the unemployment payment system and in the area of community development. We now have 705 long term unemployed people doing full-time second chance education programmes.

The Government's new strategy is area based. Local communities are the prime movers. They will integrate with initiatives already in place, including the educational initiatives which I have introduced over the past few years. The strategy will involve a progression, in particular to ensuring second-chance education, leading to qualifications and therefore a greater possibility of a job.

Under this programme, which is already under way, a series of pilot projects will be carried out this year in 12 areas. These areas were selected on the basis of recommendations made by the Central Review Committee under the Programme for Economic and Social Progress. A national level team representative of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, the employer organisations, FÁS and the Departments of Education, Social Welfare and the Taoiseach has been established to organise the project and to monitor and co-ordinate the activities of individual local companies. These companies, which are being set up to co-ordinate the response in each of the 12 areas, will be representative of the local community interests, public agencies and the social partners.

The pilot projects will be reviewed at the end of the year. On the basis of this review, satisfactory models will progressively be extended nationwide by 1994. The suggestions contained in the report can contribute to the implementation of the new area based response strategy.

A number of the pilot areas selected under the area based strategy to combat long term unemployment also contain community development projects which are being funded by my Department under the nationwide programme of community development, which I introduced last year.

Under the programme, grants are being made to local projects to establish local resource centres which are designed to act as a focal point for community development initiatives. A key feature of the programme is that the participating projects have security of funding for a three-year period. This year the Government provided an additional £225,000 for the programme, bringing the overall allocation in 1991 to £750,000. These additional resources are being used to provide increased funds to the existing 15 participating projects and to extend the programme to other areas. A new project in the Bray area was launched recently and work on establishing projects in Darndale in north Dublin and in Waterford city is at an advanced stage. In addition, plans to establish other projects in Kilkenny and west Cork are being finalised

In general, the projects being funded under the programme receive grants of £40,000 per year and a special allocation of £100,000 per year is being made to a project in Tallaght.

I am convinced that the best approach to tackling the problems of disadvantaged communities is through developing and enhancing integrated approaches such as those which I have outlined.

I thank the Minister for his reply. Given that 200,000 people have emigrated since the period covered by the report and that Ireland now has the highest number of long term unemployed ever recorded, will the Minister not accept the findings of the report and that the trend shown between 1973 and 1985 is continuing up to 1991? Will he not admit that Ireland now has the worst poverty rate in Europe and that that position is getting worse, given the rate of emigration and the numbers of long term unemployed?

I remind the Deputy that the figures relate to 1973, 1980 and 1985, before the period of the present Government. In fact, the Deputy is now a member of a party who were in Government at that time. The Deputy should note the exact level at which payments stood in 1986, when the Labour Party left Government, and what has happened since then. There has been a substantial increase in unemployment payments, and I mentioned that in relation to the figures provided. Even though the numbers increased — particularly because of difficulties in Great Britain, the United States and Australia; there is no question that more people are returning to Ireland and fewer people are emigrating — the rates per head have increased. That has meant substantial additional allocations to those who depend on unemployment payments. A very useful fact sheet gives detailed information on what has been done since the publication of the figures in the report. I wish to emphasise that point.

I also wish to point out that the main finding of the report was that economic growth on its own will not automatically eliminate urban poverty, and that is something that I know very well. The first proposal made for tackling the problem was for training targeted at the abilities of local workers and the kind of jobs likely to be available in local areas. Through the Jobsearch programme in 1987 and other initiatives since then the Government have directed additional training opportunities and additional second-chance educational opportunities to people in those circumstances. I agree with that finding and with several other findings in relation to the best way to tackle the problem. The one point made generally is that an integrated approach is required, which is exactly what the Government are doing with the social partners, through the Programme for Economic and Social Progress. People should give that programme an opportunity to operate, because it has only been accepted. It has already come into operation in a number of areas. It is coming into operation now and it will bear the fruits people expect from it.

I have to say——

(Interruptions.)

Half the time has expired.

It is a big report.

This question has taken up an inordinate amount of time——

The Minister's reply has taken up an inordinate amount of time.

——all to the detriment of the remaining priority questions. It has taken eight minutes out of 15.

The Minister speaks about——

If that is the way the House wants it, so be it. The Chair does its best.

The Minister speaks of the increases in payments for long term unemployed. Does the Minister not accept that there is now a much greater number of people who are long term unemployed than there were in 1985 and that the payment, despite the increases he spoke of, are £10 per week per person less than the minimum amount recommended by the Commission on Social Welfare to bring people up to the poverty line? Does the Minister not accept that there are now colossal numbers of people in the poverty area?

Let us have brevity. I will not repeat myself in that regard.

I know that the Deputy was not a member of the Labour Party when they were in Government, but he is a member of that party now——

Deal with now, Minister.

——and he speaks as spokesman for the Labour Party.

(Interruptions.)

Deal with what you have not done.

The Deputy is a spokesperson for the Labour Party now.

(Interruptions.)

Please, Deputy Stagg.

While the Labour Party were in Government——

Do not personalise the thing——

(Interruptions.)

——they were very happy to provide these very low rates. They have been substantially and consistently increased by Fianna Fáil Governments in between.

You are effectively telling a lie to the House.

The report is based on 1985 data, 1970 data and 1980 data.

It has become worse since.

Since that time the Government have provided substantial increases, something that did not happen in the period while the Deputy's party were in Government.

They are still £10 below the poverty line.

All long term payments have reached the priority rates set by the Commission on Social Welfare.

Those figures are five years out of date. £62 per week is the present rate.

That is ahead of the commitment in the Programme for Economic and Social Progress which was to reach those levels by 1993.

Inaccurate.

Question No. 7, please.

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