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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 5 Jun 1991

Vol. 409 No. 4

Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Social Welfare Over-Payments.

Paul Connaughton

Question:

7 Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he has satisfied himself that social welfare recipients should have to repay moneys paid out by his Department in error or because of the total ignorance of social welfare entitlements; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

It has always been the practice in my Department to seek recovery of all over-payments of social assistance and social insurance. I can reassure the Deputy, however, that where an over-payment arises through no fault of a social welfare recipient, a very sympathetic attitude is taken towards recovery of the amounts over-paid and all the circumstances of the case are taken into account. Such recoveries are made with the agreement of the recipient and every effort is made to ensure that hardship is not caused.

Sympathy is one thing, but when the Department make a mistake they should accept responsibility for it. I know of a person who was in receipt of a blind pension before she became entitled to the old age non-contributory pension. The person did not know that she could not draw both pensions and recently she got a bill from the Department for £2,477. I know the officials will deal quite sympathetically with her, but nonetheless this bill went out to an old blind person. She did not make the mistake. She genuinely did not know that one cannot draw both pensions. The Department have the computers and all the back-up services so surely the Department should accept a mistake if they make it.

I would be interested to hear the Deputy querying the Accounting Officer at the Committee of Public Accounts about money paid out in error and asking him if the Department should not make every reasonable effort to recover the money. I presume that if the Deputy received money in excess of what he was due he would be anxious to have the matter cleared up as quickly as possible. In percentage terms, over-payments represent 0.4 per cent of the total. The money would be of the order of £2.8 million which is classified as non-fraudulent over-payment. That relates to 1989. The Department have a difficulty in this respect. At other times Deputies will exhort the Department not to wait too long, to pay money out and sort out problems afterwards. One the other hand, the Department could insist that they would hold back money until they were absolutely certain that everything was in order. We are dealing with £3,000 million in payments. Mistakes are few. In practical terms and in terms of money there is generally not a problem and the officers deal sympathetically with people when mistakes occur.

If another of the Deputy's questions is to be answered it must be within seconds.

Can the Minister imagine the stress that that bill brought to the woman?

The difficulty is about going from the particular to the general.

I sympathise fully with the Deputy in relation to the stress. In dealing with elderly people, even the matter of forms causes stress. One cannot change a system that operated well down through the years because of that. We need to deal sympathetically with the case.

If Question No. 8 is to be disposed of it must be replied to now.

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