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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 13 Jun 1991

Vol. 409 No. 8

Gas Act, 1976 (Section 9) (Establishment of Subsidiaries) Order, 1990: Motion.

I move:

That Dáil Éireann approves the following order in draft——

Gas Act, 1976 (Section 9) (Establishment of Subsidiaries) Order, 1990

copies of which Order in draft were laid before Dáil Éireann on 15th June, 1990.

Copies of the order have been placed before both Houses of the Oireachtas.

The purpose of this order is to confer on Bord Gáis Éireann powers, duties, rights and obligations in relation to the establishment of subsidiary companies so that it can conduct its business through the most appropriate corporate structures and, where necessary, enter into joint ventures with other bodies.

Since natural gas was first brought ashore in 1978 it has rapidly become a crucial element in our fuel mix. Natural gas currently accounts for about 14 per cent of our primary energy requirement and the resulting saving to date on our imported fuel bill is in the region of £2 billion. This is no small achievement in an economy the size of ours.

Bord Gáis Éireann were established under the Gas Act, 1976, with powers and functions related to the transmission of gas and the development on a commercial basis and maintenance of the natural gas supply grid. The gradual involvement of the board in the gas utilities in Cork, Limerick and Clonmel in the eighties and, finally, the acquisition of the assets of the Dublin Gas Company, which included the Waterford Gas Company, has meant that the board's role is now an expanded one, indeed a greatly expanded on, which has projected them into the difficult commercial areas of urban gas distribution.

New legislation to cater for these changed circumstances was enacted in 1987 and a number of orders were enacted subsequently. Bord Gáis have functioned very well in their new environment and have made a very successful transition. It is fair to say that the image of the gas distribution industry in the towns and cities where gas is available is now greatly improved.

The benefits which accrue from the use of natural gas have gone not only to those fortunate enough to be within the range of a gas supply, but to the nation as a whole, in the form of dividend payments by Bord Gáis Éireann to the State. The Exchequer has benefited from this source to the tune of £260 million to date. A further payment is expected this year. On a cautionary note, however, I might say that the board's capital expenditure programme for the coming years may require a review of dividend payments in the medium term. I will elaborate on this capital expenditure later.

In addition to the direct payments to the Exchequer, natural gas has had a significant effect on many sectors of the economy. In 1990, 45 per cent of all gas produced went to electricity generation. With modern advances in combustion technology such use of gas has recently come to be recognised internationally as being economically efficient and environmentally beneficial. Indeed, the European Community has lately revoked the Directive which banned the use of natural gas in power stations.

Continued use of gas-fired power stations will be an essential element in helping us to meet out international environmental commitments, notably in regard to reduction of sulphur and nitrous oxide emissions under the Helsinki Accord and the Sofia Protocol. In addition, it helps us to reduce our dependence on imported oil, which is the alternative fuel available to the Electricity Supply Board.

Many customers in industry have learned to appreciate how important gas can be as an energy source. The cleanliness, versatility, efficiency and competitiveness of this indigenous resource has meant that it has to a great extent replaced other fuels in the area of the existing grid and is now the dominant fuel for industry in the gas supply area. In the foreseeable future the main growth market for gas in this area will be the small commercial sector, which in 1990 alone increased volume sales by 15 per cent and looks set to develop rapidly over the next few years.

In the domestic sector sales are consistently increasing. In 1990 alone the volume of gas sold increased by 40 per cent over the previous year. Twenty-one thousand new central heating customers were connected up in 1990. In percentage terms this represented an increase of approximately 43 per cent on the number for the previous year. Sales of cookers and fires exceeded 29,000 in the same year. These developments owe their success to the board's initiatives in marketing. The establishment of the concept of "Warm Home Centres" is one such initiative which has been very successful, as have the board's other promotional campaigns and incentives.

The ban on the sale and distribution of bituminous coal in Dublin from 1 September 1990 has presented Bord Gáis with both a golden opportunity and a challenge. The opportunity to greatly increase gas sales to fill the vacuum left by coal is clearly apparent. There are approximately 350 non-gas estates in the Dublin area. When one includes the houses within the present gas network area which are not connected to the grid there are about 100,000 houses in Dublin which do not have a gas supply. The demand for connection to the grid is enormous. The challenge for the board is to satisfy that demand in as far as they can, efficiently, in a cost effective manner and working to a realistic timescale.

A start has been made. The board have drawn up a register of non-gas estates. A pilot project has been undertaken in two Dublin estates to assess the likely take up for gas and the return on the board's investment. The project has shown positive, but marginal, results. On the basis of this pilot project, and subject to take up, the board are proposing to extend supply to an additional 8,000 homes in hitherto non-gas estates throughout the country in 1991. Some 32 estates in the Dublin area involving about 6,000 houses will be approached.

A programme of this scale cannot be completed overnight and will cost a lot of money to implement. Extension to individual non-gas estates will naturally depend on the level of uptake in each case. Bord Gáis Éireann have a statutory responsibility to earn a reasonable return on their capital investment and must therefore assess all extensions on a commercial basis. Accordingly, the board will survey each of the estates involved to check out the prospective level of take up for gas and only those estates which are identified as being able to provide a satisfactory return on the board's expenditure will be considered for connection.

In addition to the Dublin estates, Bord Gáis, this year also intend to offer a gas supply to some 1,700 homes in hitherto non-gas estates in Cork and to 400 in Limerick. Similar viability criteria and incentives will apply in these centres as in Dublin.

The programme for future years will depend on the funds available to the board and to a great extent will be dependent on the success of this year's projects and the lessons learned by Bord Gáis Éireann in carrying them out. Nevertheless, it would be my intention that all viable estates in the gas supply area would be connected within five years.

In short, it can be said that because of all its benefits — environmentally friendly, efficient, reliable, economical, versatile — natural gas is widely perceived as the fuel of the future. It is my purpose and that of my Department to ensure that the body charged with developing and maintaining the gas industry are enabled to do so properly.

The natural gas industry, apart from its impact in other sectors is an important industry in itself. Bord Gáis currently employ over 900 people directly and a great many others are employed by associated companies such as the warm home centres and the gas contractors. Bord Gáis Éireann expect to announce a turnover in the region of £160 million on operations during 1990 in their annual report and accounts for the year, which are due to be laid before the Oireachtas and published shortly.

Capital expenditure by Bord Gáis Éireann in 1990 was approximately £22 million. Extension of the grid and replacement of mains and services in Dublin cost £15 million. The remainder was spent in extending and enhancing the networks in Cork, Limerick, Clonmel and connecting customers in Drogheda, Dundalk and Waterford. Grant assistance of about £900,000 is recoupable from the European Regional Development Fund in respect of the expenditure incurred.

From the commercial aspect the various gas utilities, which prior to the board's intervention were in very serious financial difficulties, are now far stronger financially than they were before the involvement of Bord Gáis Éireann. They are not yet in a break-even situation because of the necessity to finance the substantial marketing campaign being undertaken in the domestic sector. The increased level of gas sales in this sector indicates that the board's campaign is having the desired effect and that the utilities should begin to trade profitably and move into the black in the not too distant future.

Any modern gas utility, if it is to operate successfully and retain the confidence of its customers, must have a satisfactory safety record and must implement the most up-to-date safety standards and practices. The networks inherited by Bord Gáis Éireann when they acquired the old "town gas" utilities were old and in many instances in bad repair. The Dublin network alone comprises some 2,600 km of pipe. The board have set about modernising and replacing much of the distribution grid.

The Government, conscious of the need for independent investigation of serious incidents, appointed international engineering consultants to investigate the Raglan House explosion in 1987. The terms of reference asked for recommendations on how incidents such as the Raglan House explosion might be avoided in the future. There were 38 recommendations in all. Bord Gáis Éireann have implemented the recommendations of the report in relation to Dublin Gas and an annual pipe replacement plan now in force for mains and services will ensure that the network is maintained to the highest standards.

A further three safety audits were carried out in respect of Dublin Gas, including the report of the task force, under the aegis of the Minister for the Environment, on the network and operating procedures relating particularly to multistorey buildings.

Emanating from these four reports were 123 recommendations referring to Dublin Gas. The systematic implementation of all these recommendations was set as a high priority by the Department of Energy and has been closely monitored by the Department with the result that all the short-term recommendations included in the reports have been carried through. Most of the longer term technical improvements have been completed. Progress on the remaining elements is on target and is being monitored.

A number of technical audits have been carried out by independent experts since the takeover of the southern utilities by Bord Gáis Éireann. These have verified that the system is being operated safely and to current international standards.

My Department have set up a detailed regulatory framework for monitoring safety practices in all of the gas utilities. As Minister for Energy, I am empowered to require Bord Gáis Éireann to submit detailed reports on safety matters, including the condition of the gas network, maintenance and renewal programme and leak records. Detailed procedures have been put in place regarding the reporting of gas incidents. There is also provision for the appointment of an independent investigator to examine safety practices and for my Department to require adherence to specified codes of practice.

The Dutch VEG Gasinsituut was commissioned by BGE to carry out a further review of all safety improvements in the organisation over the last two years. The final report indicated general satisfaction that the safety related policies, systems and practices in Bord Gáis conform to the best international standards.

The safe transmission and distribution of natural gas, and indeed the safe installation of appliances and heating systems, depend on a high degree of skill and expertise. The board's in-house training programmes and its involvement in training courses with FÁS have made a significant contribution to ensuring that skilled staff are involved in all aspects of the gas industry, particularly in the domestic and commercial installation business.

Another factor which helps to ensure the highest standards of safety and quality of workmanship in the industry is the panel of approved installers which is operated by the board. The qualifications for admission of contractors to this panel are rigorous and the performance of those companies or individuals who are accepted is constantly monitored by the board's quality control department.

The progress made by BGE in the area of safety in the last few years has been significant. Publicly reported escapes of gas have been greatly reduced and unaccounted for gas is now below the internationally accepted norm. We cannot afford to become complacent, however. Constant vigilance is necessary both on the part of the board itself and my Department in their monitoring role.

Over £50 million is being provided for BGE's 1991 capital expenditure programme, the principal elements of which involve spending on the Ireland-UK gas interconnector, the continuing upgrading and expansion of the gas utilities distribution systems and development of new business.

A major capital project being undertaken this year as part of that capital programme is the extension of the gas grid westwards from Skibbolmore, County Louth, on the Dublin-Dundalk line to Mullagh in County Cavan. The pipeline will run through Ardee, where it will serve a number of commercial customers, with spur lines to serve industrial customers in Virginia and Bailieborough. The project is based on a limited number of specific industrial and commercial customers, with whom Bord Gáis Éireann have held discussions and who have agreed to take gas when the pipeline is built. The possibility of supplying domestic users will be considered if and when viable markets can be identified in the areas concerned.

The project, which is estimated to cost just over £10 million, has recently been approved by the European Commission for funding from its special Border areas programme. It is scheduled to commence shortly and should be completed early next year.

Overall the success of Bord Gáis in transforming the gas industry has made it imperative that we secure the future of that industry. We now recognise more than ever the important role gas can play in providing clean and efficient energy. This role is expected to expand as we face into the next century. However, our currently identified reserves of natural gas are finite and are expected to run out shortly after the turn of the century. With this in mind I have made it a priority since taking office to examine the options open to us with a view to securing long-term gas supplies.

An important aspect of ensuring future supplies is the drilling programme agreed with Marathon Petroleum Ireland in 1988, which is currently under way. The object of the agreement was to facilitate the further exploration of the 37 blocks off the south and south-east coasts of Ireland which are held by Marathon with a view to finding additional deposits to improve Ireland's security of supply. As the Members of the House will be aware, the Kinsale Head gas field is our sole supply of natural gas at present and supplies from these fields will begin to taper off towards the end of the century.

One positive result of the Marathon drilling programme was the discovery in March 1989 of the Ballycotton field, which, although of modest proportions, augurs well for future projects in the Celtic Sea and other areas where, hopefully, additional indigenous reserves will be identified and developed. The Ballycotton gas field is located some ten miles north west of the Kinsale Head gas field with estimated reserves of about 70 BCF. This is approximately one-twentieth the size of the Kinsale Head gas field.

A gas sales agreement in respect of this latest find has been concluded between Marathon and BGE and on 27 March 1990 I announced my approval of a plan of development submitted by Marathon for the field. First deliveries of gas from the field are expected in July this year. It will be linked with the Kinsale Head field and its reserves will be depleted about the same time as those of the latter field.

While the discovery of the Ballycotton gas field indicates that further indigenous reserves may be indentified in our offshore, nevertheless, we must, be pragmatic.

In late 1989 the Government decided that the options for gas importation should be examined. My Department and Bord Gáis carried out a feasibility study of the main options and decided that the best solution would be a subsea interconnector pipeline to the UK. In addition to linking us to the UK gas grid and North Sea supplies, an interconnector would give us the benefit of a link to the greater European grid in due course and the opportunity to export any gas that would be surplus to our needs in the event of a significant indigenous gas find.

Planning for this gas interconnector is now at an advanced stage. There are various aspects to the project, including the necessary statutory clearances here and in the UK, and environmental impact studies, which are scheduled for execution at different times throughout the period up to the target completion date in October 1993 when first deliveries are expected.

Subsea surveys of a number of possible pipeline routes have been carried out. The planned route runs from north county Dublin to Moffat in southern Scotland. This route allows for the possibility of a link to Northern Ireland and my Department have maintained close contact with the Northern Ireland authorities in this matter. We are anxious, in the spirit of North-South co-operation, to facilitate them in any way we can. However, no final decision has yet been taken on the Northern side.

Negotiations for a supply of gas are ongoing and engineering design is now well under way. I expect to put the project before the Government for final approval soon so that the major procurement and construction contracts can be placed. Construction should commence in March 1993. Preliminary estimates are that the cost of the project will be about £240 million at current prices.

There are four main elements to the project. These are onshore pipelines in Scotland and Ireland, the subsea pipeline and a compressor station in Scotland. The project has been chosen by the European Commission for support through its REGEN initiative under which £300 million have been allocated to assist five energy related projects in the Community. A formal application to Brussels for assistance has been made, but the amount of the allocation to the Irish project will not be known for some time.

It is the Government's intention that the pipeline will effectively be owned and operated by Bord Gáis Eireann. Initial imports are intended for electricity generation but, as indigenous reserves are depleted, increasing amounts will go to Bord Gáis Eireann's other markets. The participation of the ESB will be vital to the success of the project and for that reason the ESB have been involved in the gas supply negotiations.

Indeed, the possibility of a joint venture arrangement between Bord Gáis Éireann and some other suitable partner on one or more aspects of the project in the future has been raised and could be worthy of serious consideration, if a suitable proposal were to emerge.

It may be advantageous, or even necessary, for Bord Gáis to handle their involvement in the interconnector project by way of a subsidiary company. Indeed, Bord Gáis Éireann may consider it prudent to set up subsidiaries to deal with the ownership and operation of the pipeline itself even if no joint venture partner is involved.

Even with an interconnector pipeline in place, linking us to a complete European market for gas, in the event that no significant new finds of gas emerge before the Kinsale Head field is depleted, Bord Gáis Éireann will still need to make provision for security of supply since there will then be only one source — imported gas — and for meeting peak demand. It is envisaged therefore that more capital expenditure will be required in the latter half of this decade for construction of either a gas liquefaction plant or a terminal for imports of liquified natural gas (LNG). Much of the business of energy production, transmission and distribution worldwide is carried out by co-operation between interested parties. This will be another area where a joint venture might prove to be suitable.

Accordingly, I am anxious that the way should be cleared now to enable Bord Gáis Éireann to act in the appropriate way should the occasion arise where there is a need for a subsidiary company.

Bord Gáis Éireann's existing legislation does not address in any clear way the question of the board's entitlement to establish subsidiary companies or enter into joint venture arrangements. In effect, the board already have four subsidiaries in the gas utility companies which they have acquired i.e. Cork, Limerick, Waterford and Clonmel Gas Companies. Dublin Gas is, as I have said, an integral part of Bord Gáis Éireann. I feel it is now necessary to remove any doubt there might be regarding Bord Gáis Éireann's ability in this area, in order to pave the way for any future ventures which the board may wish to be involved, particularly at this time, in connection with the proposed interconnector project. The making of this Order will confer on Bord Gáis Éireann the power to set up or participate in companies, to form subsidiaries, and to enter into joint venture arrangements. In giving these powers to the board, however, I think it appropriate to address the question of accountability and control in connection with the functions conferred on the board under the order. Accordingly, I am including a provision that my approval and that of the Minister for Finance will be required before the board can exercise any of their powers under the order.

Similar provisions to these are included in section 2 of the Electricity (Supply) (Amendment) Act, 1988, and in section 2 of the Turf Development Act, 1990, for the exercise of similar functions by the ESB and Bord na Móna, respectively.

I am adopting this procedure because I feel it to be the most appropriate and expedient way of conferring the additional functions I have described on Bord Gáis Éireann and of ensuring the appropriate control.

Section 9 of the Gas Act, 1976, provides for the making of an order to confer on the board such functions, in relation to the provision of a supply of gas, as the Minister thinks proper. Functions can include, in this instance, powers and duties. Such an order must be laid in draft before the Houses of the Oireachtas, and requires the approval of both Houses of the Oireachtas before it can be made by me. The approval of the Seanad has already been obtained.

I therefore recommend this motion to the House.

Fine Gael will be supporting this order. We welcome the clarity it brings to this area. There has been some doubt as to the legality of certain of the activities of BGE to date and about the legality of desirable activities in the future. Most of us who have been involved in debate in recent times have found it virtually impossible to enshrine in legislation the requirement that a positive order must be affirmed in the House. It is no accident that the Act on which this order is based was passed during the period of office of another Coalition Government between 1973 and 1977. The Minister is required to come into the House to seek an affirmative order and to discuss the operation of the industry in general. I commend the procedure to the Minister and the Government, who are singularly unwilling to concede this provision in other legislation. It is most valuable and, in this instance, gives the House an opportunity to hear the Government's plans for the development of our gas resources and the interconnector.

The broad purpose of this order is supported and the powers being given to BGE are welcomed. The Minister has indicated in relation to the interconnector that a subsidiary company or a joint venture is a possibility in regard to this new development. He will be aware that during Question Time I took the opportunity to indicate our view that the option of having this new supply handled by a body other than BGE should be looked at seriously. To the degree that a subsidiary or a joint venture might be a move in that direction we welcome it. Earlier this year we had the sorry experience of being at the mercy of a State utility which has a monopoly. Where it is possible to build in an extra element of competition, that should be done. In the context of the electricity or gas supply network, it is complicated by the fact that the distribution network is in the hands of one entity in each case. A new source of supply might be of very limited value if the distribution company were involved in a dispute but, as a principle, it should be energetically pursued.

It is timely that we should be debating this matter since during the past few days BGE finally indicated their plans for the extension of the gas grid to estates in Dublin which do not have that facility. Initial steps are to be taken in 1991. Eight thousand additional houses in Dublin are to be connected to the gas grid. For the many estates which have to wait it is bad news. They have been lobbying local representatives, the Department and BGE for inclusion in the grid as quickly as possible.

This matter is related to the significant level of contribution BGE have made to the Exchequer. It is a question of judgment as to whether those funds would be better used for the more rapid development of the gas grid nationally or paid directly into the tax coffers. The issue of policy and of clarity of direction arises in this context. One of the matters which has been raised with me in the short time that I have been Fine Gael spokesperson in this area is the problem caused for industry by the lack of clear policy direction, leaving aside for a moment the environmental issues. This is relevant to the pricing of the gas supply to industry and the domestic user.

There is an element of competition but also of juggling, and transparency is lacking there. There is an element of using this as a source of revenue for the State. Without that pressure different priorities might be established in regard to investment. The new supply of gas will be available via the interconnector. This is one reason it would be desirable to have a competing source of gas supply for the various utilities and industries.

In relation to the extension of the gas grid in Dublin and throughout the country, I am more familiar with the Dublin scene because BGE have provided us with details of what they are doing in Dublin. The lucky Dubliners are to be connected, but they will have to find the capital cost of that connection. The indication is that one group of householders will be paying £600 to £700 for the connection. For those who have the money, that will be worthwhile; but many people will find this an impossibility. In view of the environmental desirability of converting to gas and the conservation appeal of gas as a source of domestic energy, particularly in heating, the State should be involved in some incentive to people to participate in this. There should be some help to meet what for the average household will be a sizeable cost but which will be prohibitive for less advantaged households. I ask the Minister and his Government to consider this very carefully. Other semi-State companies have availed of the power to establish subsidiaries quite effectively, with benefit to the Exchequer and to the economy. Therefore, we welcome this development and hope the Minister in due course will consider a total separation of responsibility for distribution of this new supply.

BGE are acting to acquire town gas companies throughout the country. We welcome that development on the basis that it brings some clarity into the operation and some assurance of a statutory basis for the gas company's operations to date.

The Minister referred to the opportunity provided by the ban on smoky fuel in Dublin last year. There is no doubt that BGE, Bord na Móna and other State companies have benefited enormously from it. It is important for us environmentally that it succeeds. This brings me back to the need to encourage people to convert to gas. I refer to my hobby horse, for which the Minister accepts no responsibility directly, that is the problems encountered in using some of the new fuels. The frustrations people felt with the new coal last year, which they found to be dangerous, expensive and problematic to deal with, will encourage people to convert to gas if they can do so and thus benefit BGE. However, because of slow progress and because the Government are making no direct investment in the capital cost of the grid extension and are not helping individuals to meet the cost, many householders will not have the choice because they will not be able to afford it. Because gas will not be an option for such people steps should be taken to improve the grading of fuels and so on.

I see some of my colleagues on my right are impatient because they want to contribute in the debate before 12 noon.

We are on the Deputy's left.

They are on my right at the moment. In general we support the Gas Act (Section 9) (Establishment of Subsidiaries) Order, 1990.

It appears that the aim of this Order is to enable BGE in principle to expand the range of their operations and take part in commercial activities over and above the activities they undertake at present. This order would be acceptable in principle to us in the Labour Party, but we cannot make a final decision on it without being absolutely clear as to the motivation behind it. There are a number of possible reasons for putting a motion like this before the House at this time. One may be that the Minister for Energy has a deep belief and conviction about the possibility of expanding State enterprises and contributing in a major way to job creation and economic development. If that is the reason, the order is most welcome.

However, the Minister has made a number of statements in the past about the possibility of liberalising this whole area of economic activity. Therefore, we must get a clear statement from him on the complete motivation for this order. There is a possibility and a suspicion that the reason this order is being brought before the Dáil now is that it is part of a process of preparing BGE for privatisation either in whole or in part. If that is the Minister's motivation he should say so, then we will all know exactly where we stand.

BGE are the State body responsible for the safe transmission of natural gas throughout the areas served by their national grid. Since the development of the company they have contributed to meeting about one-sixth of Ireland's energy needs. The company have proved to be successful in commercial terms. Domestic sales have increased every year for the past number of years as have central heating sales and sales of appliances. The company have provided a valuable service in both the domestic and commercial markets. In particular, with the banning of bituminous coal in the Dublin area, natural gas has made a significant contribution to a cleaner environment. In fact, it is arguable that BGE should be encouraged to concentrate a great deal more on getting their house in order before they are encouraged to expand.

I recognise what the Minister said in his statement about the efforts which have been made and which continue to be made particularly in the Dublin area. In that area it is apparent that Dublin Gas are unable to meet the demands for service and appliances and there is still the need to eliminate the long history of complaints about the quality of service in the Dublin area. Strenuous efforts have been made by the company to address these problems but it is clear that more work needs to be done. The Minister in his opening statement recognised there are a number of housing estates in the Dublin area which have no supply of natural gas and, unfortunately, there is little prospect of these estates being supplied with this amenity. It must be annoying for a great number of householders in Dublin to watch the very professional advertisements on television and in the newspapers encouraging people to switch to natural gas when they know that natural gas is not likely to be available to them or, in some cases, is available to them only at considerable cost per household.

Bord Gáis Éireann recently circulated literature about their plans to make more natural gas available to users in housing estates in Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Clonmel and Waterford and to include 8,000 new houses this year but the capital investment required for more rapid development, particularly in regard to the replacement of obsolete pipelines, is substantial. It is unlikely that natural gas will be a viable option for thousands of domestic consumers unless the capital requirement is addressed.

Notwithstanding that, Bord Gáis Éireann are a very substantial company. In 1989 total investment by the company was £21.5 million. Extension of the grid and replacement of mains and services in Dublin cost £14 million which included the gas supplied to north county Dublin. The remainder was spent extending and enhancing the networks in Cork, Limerick and Clonmel and connecting customers in Drogheda, Dundalk and Waterford. A European Regional Development Fund grant of £1.082 million is receivable for this work. There are five wholly-owned subsidiary companies Cork, Limerick, Clonmel, Waterford and Natural Gas Finance Limited. The turnover of the company as a whole is in excess of £40 million per annum with gross profits of around £25 million. The assets of the company are approximately £46 million.

In short, Bord Gáis Éireann represent a considerable asset to this State. It is an asset that needs to be developed and make an even greater contribution to economic activity and to job creation. The importance of Bord Gáis Éireann will be further highlighted with the development of the gas interconnector. This is not an asset we can afford to lightly sell off to the highest bidder. Therefore, before we give our full support to this motion I would like to have an assurance from the Minister that the aim of the order is to enable the company to develop as a strategic publicly-owned national asset providing the highest level of service and making the greatest possible contribution to the economic development of the country. Otherwise we will oppose resolutely and effort by this Government to sell off this important utility company.

Deputy Pattison may well be proved to be correct in regard to what is in the mind of the Government; one never knows. Privatisation seems to be the way to go at present. After the privatisation of the Irish Sugar Company, and Irish Life coming up, no one knows what company is next. On the basis of what we have before us we can take it that the Minister is simply giving powers to Bord Gáis Éireann which have been given to other State companies such as the ESB and Bord na Móna. On that basis I welcome giving Bord Gáis Éireann the same opportunities for initiative and enterprise as other companies. It is important for the development of the company — as it was for the ESB and Bord na Móna — and for the morale of the staff to be able to use their initiative and enterprise and to be generally more flexible.

Bord na Móna now have their own company in France which has been a boost to the staff who formerly had an image of being stuck in the bog all their lives. Now they are a live European company and it is an asset to them, although I am not too happy with the general direction the management of Bord na Móna are taking.

The way forward for State companies is to give them opportunities for joint ventures or initiatives, not privatising. We should give them more opportunities to be more flexible and to have more autonomy, to use their initiative, to allow them to expand and develop while retaining their public service role and desire to serve the public. Semi-State companies see themselves in a role of serving the public. They like to succeed in doing something for the benefit of the State and the public. It is very important to retain that ideal while allowing them all the flexibility, initiative and enterprise we can.

To privatise a company like Bord Gáis Éireann would turn the whole philosophy of that company on its head from being one of public service to one of private personal greed at the expense of the public good. Essentially that is what it comes down to. You do everything to make a profit even if it means sacking people, going into a different area, doing less for the State, not reinvesting and creating jobs or not using the material resources of the State in the best way. All these things are done with a profit motive rather than providing a service for the public good. I welcome this as the way forward for semi-State companies as it allows them the maximum opportunities for development with subsidiaries, joint ventures, etc.

Bord Gáis Éireann have been a highly successful company from the start. They have done much for all the gas utilities throughout the country, all of which were ailing and on the verge of collapse. The fact that all these gas utilities have been given new life has been a great boost for many towns and cities. The take-over of Dublin Gas has been very important for the citizens of Dublin. The huge job entailed in renewing the ancient facilities of the Dublin Gas Company is still ongoing. Bord Gáis Éireann have successfully given a new image and credibility to gas as a clean and efficient product to be desired in one's household where it had a bad image in the old days.

I was particularly interested in the initial development of the smoke controlled zones under the provisions of the Air Pollution Act, 1987, because the first zone selected was in Ballyfermot where air pollution was twice as bad as any other area. Bord Gáis moved in very rapidly and, following a highly successful campaign, the first area was developed. Grants were made available to encourage people to use gas, electricity or enclosed solid fuel burners instead of bituminous coal. Bord Gáis were more successful than any other company in this campaign. They gained a major portion of the market in Ballyfermot. This led to a dramatic reduction in the level of smog in that area. Ballyfermot is the only area to have been designated a smoke controlled zone under the Air Pollution Act. Although this scheme was slow to get under way during the first 12 months due to hold-ups and so on, once it was set up it moved very rapidly.

It was proposed to extend the smoke free area to include Neilstown and Crumlin when suddenly the Minister scrapped the scheme and simply banned the sale of bituminous coal. This move was promoted as a marvellous initiative by the Minister but had a traumatic effect on the people of Neilstown, the next area in line for the grant scheme. People were no longer offered grants to change over to smokeless fuel. Instead they had to buy new fuels which would not light, caused enormous problems in grids and were very expensive. Last winter was very cold but no mention has been made of the hardship suffered by the people in those estates who did not have the money to purchase smokeless fuels.

Because both the Ministers involved do not live in the city they have no direct experience of this. They do not believe us when we tell them how bad it is. The Leas-Cheann Comhairle knows how bad it can be.

Deputy Mac Giolla does not need any assistance.

The decision was taken by the Minister to ban the use of bituminous coal and not give grants to people to change over to smokeless fuel. This has led to a decision by Bord Gáis Éireann which is clearly stated in a letter dated February last that further developments would be totally dependent on the socio-economic profile of the area. Bord Gáis have issued a list, which they have sent to all Deputies, of the areas in Dublin to which they intend to extend their gas system. They propose to extend the pipeline to Hillcrest in Lucan, a large estate. In doing this they will be by-passing Arthur Griffith Park, a local authority estate. They also propose extending the pipeline to Palmerstown Woods in Clondalkin, quite a small estate, but they are making no effort to extend the pipeline to Neilstown or Rowlagh, local authority estates. These estates will be left without any gas supply.

There is no grant system in operation to encourage people in local authority estates, the areas which were to be designated as smoke control zones, to change over to gas. Under the Bord Gáis proposal, the gas pipeline will only be extended to areas of high socio-economic profile. Even though the pipeline will pass-by their doors, people in local authority housing estates will not be given the opportunity of availing of a gas supply. The Minister should address this issue.

I support this ministerial order which will enable Bord Gáis to establish subsidaries or joint ventures to import gas. Because of the need to ensure continuity of supply I fully support the building of a pipeline to import gas. This is vital for all consumers. However, I ask the Minister to look at the decision by Bord Gáis to take socio-economic factors only into account when extending their system. No consideration is being given by them to the social factors involved. The Minister has a responsibility to ensure that social factors are also taken into account. The use of turf in power stations has no economic basis but, because of the very powerful social reasons involved, the State decided to use this type of fuel in power stations. This is vitally important for the whole midlands area. The Minister also has a responsibility to look at the supply of gas to local authority estates. Some procedure should be adopted to ensure that gas will be supplied to these estates.

I compliment the Minister on bringing before the House this order which will enable Bord Gáis to establish subsidiaries or joint ventures in a way which was not foreseen in the Gas Act, 1976. That Act was passed against the background of the so-called oil crisis. That crisis underlined the importance of indigenous energy resources as well as the dangers of relying exclusively on oil.

Since 1976 we have taken these points to heart and the development of Board Gáis, Bord na Móna and the ESB bear witness to this. However, as our energy needs develop, the brief of Bord Gáis must also be expanded. The establishment of subsidiaries in Cork, Limerick and Dublin during the eighties outlined this expansion. It has been suggested that the legality of these subsidiaries might be questioned in so far as they are not covered by section 9 of the 1976 Act. I do not know if such suggestions are legally tenable but, if we are to proceed with a subsea interconnector as well as expand our domestic subsidiaries both in terms of numbers and responsibilities, all legal reservations must be removed.

The Minister has referred to the interconnector with Britain and our need as a nation to tie into the European energy system. I accept this need and very much welcome the Minister's declaration of our need to tie into the European energy system. However, we must be serious about expanding the grid and the number of our subsidiaries at home. This is implicit in the order. Therefore, it is vitally important that we are clear on the criteria for the subsidiaries and of the undoubted role they may play in our national recovery.

In a speech to the Seanad on 4 July last year the Minister for Energy stated that the extension of the gas grid would have to be "economically viable". I have great reservations about the policy of Bord Gáis to distribute gas on the basis of economic viability. Last year in Wexford over 1,400 gas consumers were threatened with a lack of supply because of the closure of Wexford Gas. I approached the Minister on a number of occasions about the matter. Initially he was hesistant to intervene but after discussions with myself and with Deputies in the Wexford area he took action on which I compliment him. He provided £300,000 so that consumers in Wexford could get an alternative supply of gas. On that occasion the Minister recognised that Bord Gáis Éireann has a social responsibility. We must look at the matter of the provision of gas throughout the country. There is a social responsibility to supply gas to Wexford, Galway and other counties.

We all agree that semi-State bodies must be financially sound but this criterion must not be one that shuns or denies the sense of social responsibility which must be the priority of all political parties. If we were to distribute electricity in the early sixties on the basis that Bord Gáis are now distributing gas half of Ireland only would have electricity. Similarly, if we were to distribute running water on the basis that Bord Gáis Éireann are distributing gas, half the people of the country only would have running water. I would ask the Minister to ensure that in distributing gas Bord Gáis take into account the social needs of the different areas. I make this plea for my own constituency where there is very high unemployment. If we are to solve this problem we must have natural gas. It is a Catch 22 situation — we cannot attract industry because we do not have natural gas and we cannot get natural gas because of Bord Gáis policy. I appeal to the Minister to consider the matter and impress on Bord Gáis the need to distribute natural gas throughout the country.

As I would like to give the Minister an opportunity to reply I will be very brief. I share the sentiments being expressed in relation to the social aspect of the supply of natural gas to the various areas, particularly, housing estates, in all constituencies. Bord Gáis Éireann have informed me that it is their intention to extend the gas supply to various areas in the town of Clonmel, but, inevitably, there are consequences of any such procedures. If we depend completely on the ability of everybody in the area to pay for natural gas those who can afford it probably will not be able to avail of it and those who can get it probably will not be able to afford it. The Minister should ensure that Bord Gáis are commercially viable. The extension of the gas supply would have an environmental impact. However, we are anxious that as many people as possible avail of this facility.

The Minister's predecessor, Deputy Dick Spring, when Minister for Energy, came up with the novel idea of setting up subsidiary companies and indeed made a special arrangement to extend the same to Clonmel. That has been highly successful and has ensured that the normal users of Clonmel Gas were connected to the national gas grid. I am anxious that as many people as possible in the town benefit from this facility. The corporation are very active and could ensure that grants are available — these could be considered to be appropriate reconstruction grants, or loans, as the case might be — so that everybody would have the opportunity of participating in what is a very valuable national asset. The subsea interconnector grid and all the various projects which the Minister has mentioned are essential for the future of Bord Gáis. This order will give legislative power to Bord Gáis Éireann to become involved with various sub-companies without privatising the company. I share the concern expressed by Deputy Pattison and Deputy Mac Giolla regarding privatisation. It is not our intention to support the privatisation of Bord Gáis, but we have no objection to joint ventures or other such procedures.

I would ask the Minister to request the Department to carry out environmental impact studies and research into areas in Ireland which are not very far from the gas grid and which would benefit commercially and socially from an extension. I am talking about areas such as Tipperary town which could use the supply industrially. It is very close to the gas supply to Limerick city and is certainly within the range of an extension. A feasibility study should be carried out by the Department to ensure that towns like Tipperary with large industries such as Tipperary Co-operative Creamery, BRMC McMahon who have major demands on the ESB, and Tambrands who have a continuing demand for energy, could avail of the supply. If the supply was extended to Tipperary town the ordinary residents could also benefit from this major energy source.

In the past the private sector operated this facility but mismanaged it in such a way in the Dublin area that the State had to ensure, by setting up a certain procedure under the late Frank Cluskey, that existing users of the facility were protected. It would not be acceptable for the Government to go ahead with the £240 million investment programme and then suddenly make the company a viable proposition for privatisation. That would be a travesty of justice and would be against everything for which we, on this side of the House, stand. I am sure the Minister has no plans in that regard but perhaps he would reassure us. I support the order in principle.

I have no plans for privatisation but the Labour Party Members have put some thoughts in my head. My objective is to guarantee security of supply to all gas consumers in the country. I recognise that, with the finite nature of the gas reserves available to us, there is a doubt about the continuation of supply beyond the year 2000 unless we discover additional reserves in the Irish offshore. I cannot wait in the hope that we might find more gas. That is why we are proceeding immediately with the proposal to construct a pipeline to give us access to North Sea gas and the wider European gas grids. That would be a substantial guarantee of continuity of supply into the future. Huge reserves of gas have been discovered and the exploration of gas continues to be a success story. One can expect further discoveries in the European region which will feed into these pipelines.

The Oireachtas established Bord Gáis Éireann as a commercial semi-State body with a commercial mandate. I would like to see gas extended to every house but the semi-State body have a duty and a responsibility to act in accordance with good commercial practice. Some years ago we saw the bad side of semi-State companies who did not act in a manner that would have ensured they did not get into financial difficulties. Huge debts were incurred for various reasons, in some cases due to no fault of the companies involved. Therefore it is important that we keep tight control over the way in which our State bodies operate. It would be reckless to suggest that they commit themselves to capital expenditure without any assurance of revenue accruing to them to fund that expenditure. That is one of the difficulties.

I have been asked in the House on numerous occasions about various estates. Bord Gáis Éireann have now announced the estates to which they hope to extend the gas supply. Deputy Mac Giolla mentioned a case in which the pipeline was passing by a local authority scheme and going on to some other scheme. I shall examine that case. It is not my job as Minister to interfere with the day to day operations of any of the semi-State bodies that come under the aegis of my Department, but I shall look into the matter to determine whether there is anything in what the Deputy says.

I thank the House for the support that has been given to the motion. The sole intention of the change is to facilitate the construction of a pipeline and the possibility of attracting investment into that project. It was necessary to establish a subsidiary company and, to clear up any doubt about that, it was felt proper to bring in a separate order so that the law is clear and unequivocal.

Question put and agreed to.
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